The Democratic Presidential Debates

F Me In The Brain

cincybearcat said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I'm sure there will be at least tw KI o people to shit on that, or at least on some level about it's whiteness or some other sort of bs.

Good story, much better than fake Bernie website or Marxist bullshit.

It’s not a fake Bernie site, it specifically says it’s not associated with him directly. They aren’t hiding it 

Also, the person who originally shared it with us here presented it as a Bernie site, right?
I'm guessing it was an honest mistake, no reason to think otherwise....but it was presented here as a Bernie site, which would make it fake.

Halifax2TheMax

A bona fide fake Bernie site? You don’t say?

mickeyrat

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-trump-is-gloating-about-nevada/2020/02/23/df31645e-5662-11ea-9b35-def5a027d470_story.html

mickeyrat

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dignin said:

Everyone better get used to the idea of Bernie Sanders as the democratic nominee. Its looking very likely. All the belly aching isn't going to change it.

Unless of course your want another 4 years of Trump, if so, carry on.

We’re getting 4 more years of Team Trump Treason, with or without Bernie. With because indies and blue dog dems ain’t voting for a socialist, whether they understand the difference between democratic socialist and socialist(ism), or not and without because if the party nominee isn’t Bernie, the Berniebrosises will stay home and pout out of spite. Relying on the “young” to carry the day is a fool’s errand.

So, if someone refuses to support a candidate other than Sanders they're pouting? If they refuse to support Sanders....they're what?

I'd support any Democratic candidate except for Sanders.  If he wins I won't pout I just won't vote for him.  

Ridiculous

Trump is a complete piece of shit but ya know what, him being a piece of shit has absolutely no bearing on my day to day life.  If bernie gets elected and passes all his progressive ideas how much will my taxes go up?  Will I still be able to afford my home?  

lol. 

this is why the US wont reach the very baseline of a humane society. 

because: me me me

fuck the climate AM I RITE

Oh I have him on ignore, dude likes to troll me for some reason.  Thanks for pointing that out.  

disagreeing/arguing against =\= trolling

Spiritual_Chaos

pjl44 said:

brianlux said:

pjl44 said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dignin said:

Everyone better get used to the idea of Bernie Sanders as the democratic nominee. Its looking very likely. All the belly aching isn't going to change it.

Unless of course your want another 4 years of Trump, if so, carry on.

We’re getting 4 more years of Team Trump Treason, with or without Bernie. With because indies and blue dog dems ain’t voting for a socialist, whether they understand the difference between democratic socialist and socialist(ism), or not and without because if the party nominee isn’t Bernie, the Berniebrosises will stay home and pout out of spite. Relying on the “young” to carry the day is a fool’s errand.

So, if someone refuses to support a candidate other than Sanders they're pouting? If they refuse to support Sanders....they're what?

I'd support any Democratic candidate except for Sanders.  If he wins I won't pout I just won't vote for him.  

Ridiculous

Trump is a complete piece of shit but ya know what, him being a piece of shit has absolutely no bearing on my day to day life.  If bernie gets elected and passes all his progressive ideas how much will my taxes go up?  Will I still be able to afford my home?  

You can go to Bernie's website and put in your family income and health care costs to see how his policies would personally affect you if his plans were put into place. 
https://www.bernietax.com/#0;0;s

Interesting -- thanks, EddieC. I just went to the site and learned my annual disposable income would go DOWN under Sanders's tax plan -- just what I predicted. 

I lose around 5k with his plan.   Sounds like a guy I should vote for lol.  

If you were a lower income person and voted for Trump you'd get scolded for stupidly voting against your interests. Since you're considering voting for Trump and in your interest, you're scolded for being a heartless monster. It's futile to even engage.

This is hyperbole, is it not?  No one here has called McG or you a "heartless monster".  if you are going to make up things that have not been said then, yes, the discussion if futile.

He was told that his vote was representative of "why the US can't reach the baseline of a humane society." I am not being hyperbolic. 

having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

i am not being hyperbolic. 

And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 

brianlux

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

brianlux said:

pjl44 said:

If you were a lower income person and voted for Trump you'd get scolded for stupidly voting against your interests. Since you're considering voting for Trump and in your interest, you're scolded for being a heartless monster. It's futile to even engage.

This is hyperbole, is it not?  No one here has called McG or you a "heartless monster".  if you are going to make up things that have not been said then, yes, the discussion if futile.

He was told that his vote was representative of "why the US can't reach the baseline of a humane society." I am not being hyperbolic. 

having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

i am not being hyperbolic. 

And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 

No, wait, back up.  I said I thought pjl44 was being hyperbolic.  pjl44 did not say you were hyperbolic. 

LOL, this place is funny.  Someone is accused of saying some else one is "heartless monster".  Someone else says that might be a bit hyperbolic. Someone else says "I'm not being hyperbolic". 

It gets tangled when the words are misconstrued or not carefully read.  I can only come to one conclusion:

Spiritual_Chaos

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

brianlux said:

pjl44 said:

If you were a lower income person and voted for Trump you'd get scolded for stupidly voting against your interests. Since you're considering voting for Trump and in your interest, you're scolded for being a heartless monster. It's futile to even engage.

This is hyperbole, is it not?  No one here has called McG or you a "heartless monster".  if you are going to make up things that have not been said then, yes, the discussion if futile.

He was told that his vote was representative of "why the US can't reach the baseline of a humane society." I am not being hyperbolic. 

having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

i am not being hyperbolic. 

And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 

No, wait, back up.  I said I thought pjl44 was being hyperbolic.  pjl44 did not say you were hyperbolic. 

LOL, this place is funny.  Someone is accused of saying some else one is "heartless monster".  Someone else says that might be a bit hyperbolic. Someone else says "I'm not being hyperbolic". 

It gets tangled when the words are misconstrued or not carefully read.  I can only come to one conclusion:

Ok. Now I'm lost. So all I can say its that:

https://youtu.be/HIOnDL_NsuU

Spiritual_Chaos

Marianne Williamson endorses Bernie Sanders for president

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/23/politics/marianne-williamson-bernie-sanders-2020/index.html

Spiritual_Chaos

So tell me all you political professionals - So, she's a classic old school social democrat(?)

https://twitter.com/AnnieLinskey/status/1231713356828041225?s=20

Has Sanders said he doesn't believe in society having markets? Does he want to rid the US of the market economy altogether? Than I'm close to jumping over to team Warren. Or is Warren just selling Bernie short here.

Wikipedia puts a = betwen Social democracy and Democratic socialism:

The United Nations World Happiness Report shows that the happiest nations are concentrated in Northern Europe, where the Nordic model (which democratic socialists want to strengthen against austerity and neoliberalism)[497] is employed, with the list being topped by Denmark, where the Social Democrats led their first government in 1924 and governed Denmark for most of the 20th century. The Norwegian Labour Party, the Swedish Social Democratic Party and the Social Democratic Party of Finland also led the majority of governments and were the most popular political parties in their respective countries during the 20th century. While not as popular like its counterparts, the Icelandic Social Democratic Party and the Social Democratic Alliance have also led several governments and have been part of numerous coalitions. This success is at times attributed to the Nordic model in the region, where the aforementioned democratic socialist, labourist and social democratic political parties have dominated the political scene and laid the ground to universalistic welfare states in the 20th century.[498][499] 

Never heard of a Social democrat/Democratic Socialist not believing in markets.

I mean famed Social Democrat Olof Palme also puts a = between the two:

Mr Fälldin has been nagging me to explain why I am a socialist. I am a democratic socialist, with pride and with joy. I became one when travelling India seeing its terrible poverty blended with pockets of immense wealth; when travelling the United States and seeing an in some respects even more humiliating poverty; when, as a young man, I came eye to eye with Communist enslavement and the oppression and inhuman persecution in the Communist states. And when I came to the Nazi concentration camps and saw the death lists of social democrats and trade-unionists.

So is she being phony here? Like wit her other panicridden digs against Bernie lately. 

eddiec

F Me In The Brain said:

cincybearcat said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I'm sure there will be at least tw KI o people to shit on that, or at least on some level about it's whiteness or some other sort of bs.

Good story, much better than fake Bernie website or Marxist bullshit.

It’s not a fake Bernie site, it specifically says it’s not associated with him directly. They aren’t hiding it 

Also, the person who originally shared it with us here presented it as a Bernie site, right?
I'm guessing it was an honest mistake, no reason to think otherwise....but it was presented here as a Bernie site, which would make it fake.

My bad. I wasn't trying to be misleading.

ecdanc

Lerxst1992 said:

ecdanc said:

Lerxst1992 said:

ecdanc said:

Lerxst1992 said:

ecdanc said:

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

A federal judge ruled stop and frisk unconstitutional in 2013 but yes let's continue to advocate for its efficacy in 2020.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-practice-violated-rights-judge-rules.html

A federal judge ruled but the appeal was dropped and the decision was actually sent back for admin review.  Because Bloomberg decided to stop changing the law to add new terms to his administration the case was dropped. Had he went for a fourth term, do you really believe the USSC would overturn Henry? That’s the historical decision letting cops sidestep the fourth amendment. That decision is still valid.

and it was funny, not sure who but someone claimed I was to the right of the national review. Which is kinda silly as they are libertarians who are not technically right or left (That would be a long and boring analysis). Long story short, 4a is  sacrosanct to libertarians, not conservatives imo.

What? Libertarians are on the right. 

You should have stuck with the racism accusations.

as I said this would be long and boring dude-

“ Libertarianism (from Latin: libertas, meaning "freedom"), or libertarism (from French: libertaire, meaning "libertarian"), is a collection of political philosophiesand movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.[1] Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association and individual judgement.[2] Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems. Various schools of libertarian thought offer a range of views regarding the legitimate functions of state and private power, often calling for the restriction or dissolution of coercive social institutions. Different categorizations have been used to distinguish various forms of libertarianism.[3][4] This is done to distinguish libertarian views on the nature of property and capital, usually along left–right or socialist–capitalist lines.[5]

Libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists,[6] especially social anarchists,[7] but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists.[8][9] These libertarians seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production, or else to restrict their purview or effects to usufruct property norms, in favor of common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property as a barrier to freedom and liberty.

You know that radical politics (and literature) is my area of expertise, right? As in, that’s the topic on which I publish in scholarly journals.                                                  .

Well that makes two awkward answers on that topic. Must be that red state water, or maybe the red state wine?

.

What are you even saying here? You responded to a bona fide expert with a Wikipedia page.                 .

lol bona fide. Love the language. Enjoy the preexisting conditions.

the exact reason I’d pull Wikipedia is to get as impartial wording as possible, as I usually enjoy what experts have to say about political theory in an entirely different manner. 

I don’t know about impartial, but the language you posted is inaccurate and misleading. Libertarianism is a Right political philosophy. 

ecdanc

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

brianlux said:

pjl44 said:

If you were a lower income person and voted for Trump you'd get scolded for stupidly voting against your interests. Since you're considering voting for Trump and in your interest, you're scolded for being a heartless monster. It's futile to even engage.

This is hyperbole, is it not?  No one here has called McG or you a "heartless monster".  if you are going to make up things that have not been said then, yes, the discussion if futile.

He was told that his vote was representative of "why the US can't reach the baseline of a humane society." I am not being hyperbolic. 

having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

i am not being hyperbolic. 

And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 

No, wait, back up.  I said I thought pjl44 was being hyperbolic.  pjl44 did not say you were hyperbolic. 

LOL, this place is funny.  Someone is accused of saying some else one is "heartless monster".  Someone else says that might be a bit hyperbolic. Someone else says "I'm not being hyperbolic". 

It gets tangled when the words are misconstrued or not carefully read.  I can only come to one conclusion:

And you misconstrued SC's post as the icing on the cake. 

ecdanc

F Me In The Brain said:

cincybearcat said:

F Me In The Brain said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dignin said:

Everyone better get used to the idea of Bernie Sanders as the democratic nominee. Its looking very likely. All the belly aching isn't going to change it.

Unless of course your want another 4 years of Trump, if so, carry on.

We’re getting 4 more years of Team Trump Treason, with or without Bernie. With because indies and blue dog dems ain’t voting for a socialist, whether they understand the difference between democratic socialist and socialist(ism), or not and without because if the party nominee isn’t Bernie, the Berniebrosises will stay home and pout out of spite. Relying on the “young” to carry the day is a fool’s errand.

So, if someone refuses to support a candidate other than Sanders they're pouting? If they refuse to support Sanders....they're what?

I'd support any Democratic candidate except for Sanders.  If he wins I won't pout I just won't vote for him.  

Ridiculous

Trump is a complete piece of shit but ya know what, him being a piece of shit has absolutely no bearing on my day to day life.  If bernie gets elected and passes all his progressive ideas how much will my taxes go up?  Will I still be able to afford my home?  

You can go to Bernie's website and put in your family income and health care costs to see how his policies would personally affect you if his plans were put into place. 
https://www.bernietax.com/#0;0;s

Interesting -- thanks, EddieC. I just went to the site and learned my annual disposable income would go DOWN under Sanders's tax plan -- just what I predicted. 

I lose around 5k with his plan.   Sounds like a guy I should vote for lol.  

What if it meant reducing the cost of college for your kids? That costs a lot more than 5k.

Show me some numbers. 

Again, it's on his web page.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/free-college-cancel-debt/
I think people are looking at the short term instead of looking at the future. Which is normal. When we think of earning less each fiscal year, there's an immediate reaction to oppose it. But college has become a tremendous burden on most families. Paying more taxes of a few grand each year is nothing compared to the cost of putting several kids through college.

You read that actual website that you shared as being his page with the tax calculator?
It clearly states that there is no affiliation with Bernie Sanders.
It also appears to be a site that has not been updated in half a year.

Smells rotten to me.  
No way, nor care, to substantiate that feeling....but I think that we all live in a day and age when we need to be careful with accepting something that looks like shit as something that is real.
Hell, we live in a world where we should question what actually looks good.

Hate to say it....being a Never Trumper....but this smells like #fakenews.
Certainly is fake news that this is Bernie's site.
C'mon people!
 😂

Yeah it’s not bernies. I did find a discussion about it somewhere where the individual was truly trying to set it up to calculate correctly. But perhaps it’s not correct.

The twins are truly trying to support their agendas here as well.  I'm sure they love these sites.

Who is "they" in your last sentence?

pjl44

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

brianlux said:

pjl44 said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dignin said:

Everyone better get used to the idea of Bernie Sanders as the democratic nominee. Its looking very likely. All the belly aching isn't going to change it.

Unless of course your want another 4 years of Trump, if so, carry on.

We’re getting 4 more years of Team Trump Treason, with or without Bernie. With because indies and blue dog dems ain’t voting for a socialist, whether they understand the difference between democratic socialist and socialist(ism), or not and without because if the party nominee isn’t Bernie, the Berniebrosises will stay home and pout out of spite. Relying on the “young” to carry the day is a fool’s errand.

So, if someone refuses to support a candidate other than Sanders they're pouting? If they refuse to support Sanders....they're what?

I'd support any Democratic candidate except for Sanders.  If he wins I won't pout I just won't vote for him.  

Ridiculous

Trump is a complete piece of shit but ya know what, him being a piece of shit has absolutely no bearing on my day to day life.  If bernie gets elected and passes all his progressive ideas how much will my taxes go up?  Will I still be able to afford my home?  

You can go to Bernie's website and put in your family income and health care costs to see how his policies would personally affect you if his plans were put into place. 
https://www.bernietax.com/#0;0;s

Interesting -- thanks, EddieC. I just went to the site and learned my annual disposable income would go DOWN under Sanders's tax plan -- just what I predicted. 

I lose around 5k with his plan.   Sounds like a guy I should vote for lol.  

If you were a lower income person and voted for Trump you'd get scolded for stupidly voting against your interests. Since you're considering voting for Trump and in your interest, you're scolded for being a heartless monster. It's futile to even engage.

This is hyperbole, is it not?  No one here has called McG or you a "heartless monster".  if you are going to make up things that have not been said then, yes, the discussion if futile.

He was told that his vote was representative of "why the US can't reach the baseline of a humane society." I am not being hyperbolic. 

having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

i am not being hyperbolic. 

And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 

The only reason I wouldn't say healthcare is a human right is because it requires education and training to provide it. It's not the same as agreeing not to harm someone or allowing people to peacefully practice their religion. 

I think it's in whatever the next tier down is with things like food and housing. Even as a libertarian, I'm fine with some government inefficiency in developing programs for assistance. I'd want them at the state level and with good oversight. 

There are certainly issues with the healthcare system here, but the elderly (Medicare) and indigent (Medicaid) are generally pretty well supported. The biggest barrier in those cases is education. There are many, many uncovered people who are eligible for a variety of programs but it's harder than you might think to get the word out. But that could be another thread entirely. 

cincybearcat

eddiec said:

F Me In The Brain said:

cincybearcat said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I'm sure there will be at least tw KI o people to shit on that, or at least on some level about it's whiteness or some other sort of bs.

Good story, much better than fake Bernie website or Marxist bullshit.

It’s not a fake Bernie site, it specifically says it’s not associated with him directly. They aren’t hiding it 

Also, the person who originally shared it with us here presented it as a Bernie site, right?
I'm guessing it was an honest mistake, no reason to think otherwise....but it was presented here as a Bernie site, which would make it fake.

My bad. I wasn't trying to be misleading.

Yeah I don’t think so. I don’t think it’s really an surprise cost will go up for some under the sanders plan. He doesn’t just hit millionaires (Like himself) and billionaires (like Bloomberg).

ecdanc

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

brianlux said:

pjl44 said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dignin said:

Everyone better get used to the idea of Bernie Sanders as the democratic nominee. Its looking very likely. All the belly aching isn't going to change it.

Unless of course your want another 4 years of Trump, if so, carry on.

We’re getting 4 more years of Team Trump Treason, with or without Bernie. With because indies and blue dog dems ain’t voting for a socialist, whether they understand the difference between democratic socialist and socialist(ism), or not and without because if the party nominee isn’t Bernie, the Berniebrosises will stay home and pout out of spite. Relying on the “young” to carry the day is a fool’s errand.

So, if someone refuses to support a candidate other than Sanders they're pouting? If they refuse to support Sanders....they're what?

I'd support any Democratic candidate except for Sanders.  If he wins I won't pout I just won't vote for him.  

Ridiculous

Trump is a complete piece of shit but ya know what, him being a piece of shit has absolutely no bearing on my day to day life.  If bernie gets elected and passes all his progressive ideas how much will my taxes go up?  Will I still be able to afford my home?  

You can go to Bernie's website and put in your family income and health care costs to see how his policies would personally affect you if his plans were put into place. 
https://www.bernietax.com/#0;0;s

Interesting -- thanks, EddieC. I just went to the site and learned my annual disposable income would go DOWN under Sanders's tax plan -- just what I predicted. 

I lose around 5k with his plan.   Sounds like a guy I should vote for lol.  

If you were a lower income person and voted for Trump you'd get scolded for stupidly voting against your interests. Since you're considering voting for Trump and in your interest, you're scolded for being a heartless monster. It's futile to even engage.

This is hyperbole, is it not?  No one here has called McG or you a "heartless monster".  if you are going to make up things that have not been said then, yes, the discussion if futile.

He was told that his vote was representative of "why the US can't reach the baseline of a humane society." I am not being hyperbolic. 

having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

i am not being hyperbolic. 

And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 

The only reason I wouldn't say healthcare is a human right is because it requires education and training to provide it. It's not the same as agreeing not to harm someone or allowing people to peacefully practice their religion. 

I think it's in whatever the next tier down is with things like food and housing. Even as a libertarian, I'm fine with some government inefficiency in developing programs for assistance. I'd want them at the state level and with good oversight. 

There are certainly issues with the healthcare system here, but the elderly (Medicare) and indigent (Medicaid) are generally pretty well supported. The biggest barrier in those cases is education. There are many, many uncovered people who are eligible for a variety of programs but it's harder than you might think to get the word out. But that could be another thread entirely. 

I found part of your post hilarious: you have freedom of a religion as a basic human right, but food goes in "the next tier down." Y'all are allowed to pray until you starve to death!! 

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dignin said:

Everyone better get used to the idea of Bernie Sanders as the democratic nominee. Its looking very likely. All the belly aching isn't going to change it.

Unless of course your want another 4 years of Trump, if so, carry on.

We’re getting 4 more years of Team Trump Treason, with or without Bernie. With because indies and blue dog dems ain’t voting for a socialist, whether they understand the difference between democratic socialist and socialist(ism), or not and without because if the party nominee isn’t Bernie, the Berniebrosises will stay home and pout out of spite. Relying on the “young” to carry the day is a fool’s errand.

So, if someone refuses to support a candidate other than Sanders they're pouting? If they refuse to support Sanders....they're what?

I'd support any Democratic candidate except for Sanders.  If he wins I won't pout I just won't vote for him.  

Ridiculous

Trump is a complete piece of shit but ya know what, him being a piece of shit has absolutely no bearing on my day to day life.  If bernie gets elected and passes all his progressive ideas how much will my taxes go up?  Will I still be able to afford my home?  

You can go to Bernie's website and put in your family income and health care costs to see how his policies would personally affect you if his plans were put into place. 
https://www.bernietax.com/#0;0;s

Interesting -- thanks, EddieC. I just went to the site and learned my annual disposable income would go DOWN under Sanders's tax plan -- just what I predicted. 

I lose around 5k with his plan.   Sounds like a guy I should vote for lol.  

What if it meant reducing the cost of college for your kids? That costs a lot more than 5k.

Show me some numbers. 

Again, it's on his web page.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/free-college-cancel-debt/
I think people are looking at the short term instead of looking at the future. Which is normal. When we think of earning less each fiscal year, there's an immediate reaction to oppose it. But college has become a tremendous burden on most families. Paying more taxes of a few grand each year is nothing compared to the cost of putting several kids through college.

Waiving tuition college debt is a regressive tax.  It benefits those in society most likely to earn more (college graduates).  Whatever tax money is allocated to this benefit should be solely targeted to the last advantaged in our society, not to middle and upper class income families.  The goal of the program should be to increase college participation for the lower income levels.  

Well, we can tax those people in other ways to even things out! 

Spiritual_Chaos

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

brianlux said:

pjl44 said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dignin said:

Everyone better get used to the idea of Bernie Sanders as the democratic nominee. Its looking very likely. All the belly aching isn't going to change it.

Unless of course your want another 4 years of Trump, if so, carry on.

We’re getting 4 more years of Team Trump Treason, with or without Bernie. With because indies and blue dog dems ain’t voting for a socialist, whether they understand the difference between democratic socialist and socialist(ism), or not and without because if the party nominee isn’t Bernie, the Berniebrosises will stay home and pout out of spite. Relying on the “young” to carry the day is a fool’s errand.

So, if someone refuses to support a candidate other than Sanders they're pouting? If they refuse to support Sanders....they're what?

I'd support any Democratic candidate except for Sanders.  If he wins I won't pout I just won't vote for him.  

Ridiculous

Trump is a complete piece of shit but ya know what, him being a piece of shit has absolutely no bearing on my day to day life.  If bernie gets elected and passes all his progressive ideas how much will my taxes go up?  Will I still be able to afford my home?  

You can go to Bernie's website and put in your family income and health care costs to see how his policies would personally affect you if his plans were put into place. 
https://www.bernietax.com/#0;0;s

Interesting -- thanks, EddieC. I just went to the site and learned my annual disposable income would go DOWN under Sanders's tax plan -- just what I predicted. 

I lose around 5k with his plan.   Sounds like a guy I should vote for lol.  

If you were a lower income person and voted for Trump you'd get scolded for stupidly voting against your interests. Since you're considering voting for Trump and in your interest, you're scolded for being a heartless monster. It's futile to even engage.

This is hyperbole, is it not?  No one here has called McG or you a "heartless monster".  if you are going to make up things that have not been said then, yes, the discussion if futile.

He was told that his vote was representative of "why the US can't reach the baseline of a humane society." I am not being hyperbolic. 

having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

i am not being hyperbolic. 

And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 

The only reason I wouldn't say healthcare is a human right is because it requires education and training to provide it. It's not the same as agreeing not to harm someone or allowing people to peacefully practice their religion. 

I think it's in whatever the next tier down is with things like food and housing. Even as a libertarian, I'm fine with some government inefficiency in developing programs for assistance. I'd want them at the state level and with good oversight. 

There are certainly issues with the healthcare system here, but the elderly (Medicare) and indigent (Medicaid) are generally pretty well supported. The biggest barrier in those cases is education. There are many, many uncovered people who are eligible for a variety of programs but it's harder than you might think to get the word out. But that could be another thread entirely. 

Well, that is focusing on a specific word chosen. Change the UN term of "human right" to "the right of being a citizen of a country" then.

My point still stand.

pjl44

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

brianlux said:

pjl44 said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dignin said:

Everyone better get used to the idea of Bernie Sanders as the democratic nominee. Its looking very likely. All the belly aching isn't going to change it.

Unless of course your want another 4 years of Trump, if so, carry on.

We’re getting 4 more years of Team Trump Treason, with or without Bernie. With because indies and blue dog dems ain’t voting for a socialist, whether they understand the difference between democratic socialist and socialist(ism), or not and without because if the party nominee isn’t Bernie, the Berniebrosises will stay home and pout out of spite. Relying on the “young” to carry the day is a fool’s errand.

So, if someone refuses to support a candidate other than Sanders they're pouting? If they refuse to support Sanders....they're what?

I'd support any Democratic candidate except for Sanders.  If he wins I won't pout I just won't vote for him.  

Ridiculous

Trump is a complete piece of shit but ya know what, him being a piece of shit has absolutely no bearing on my day to day life.  If bernie gets elected and passes all his progressive ideas how much will my taxes go up?  Will I still be able to afford my home?  

You can go to Bernie's website and put in your family income and health care costs to see how his policies would personally affect you if his plans were put into place. 
https://www.bernietax.com/#0;0;s

Interesting -- thanks, EddieC. I just went to the site and learned my annual disposable income would go DOWN under Sanders's tax plan -- just what I predicted. 

I lose around 5k with his plan.   Sounds like a guy I should vote for lol.  

If you were a lower income person and voted for Trump you'd get scolded for stupidly voting against your interests. Since you're considering voting for Trump and in your interest, you're scolded for being a heartless monster. It's futile to even engage.

This is hyperbole, is it not?  No one here has called McG or you a "heartless monster".  if you are going to make up things that have not been said then, yes, the discussion if futile.

He was told that his vote was representative of "why the US can't reach the baseline of a humane society." I am not being hyperbolic. 

having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

i am not being hyperbolic. 

And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 

The only reason I wouldn't say healthcare is a human right is because it requires education and training to provide it. It's not the same as agreeing not to harm someone or allowing people to peacefully practice their religion. 

I think it's in whatever the next tier down is with things like food and housing. Even as a libertarian, I'm fine with some government inefficiency in developing programs for assistance. I'd want them at the state level and with good oversight. 

There are certainly issues with the healthcare system here, but the elderly (Medicare) and indigent (Medicaid) are generally pretty well supported. The biggest barrier in those cases is education. There are many, many uncovered people who are eligible for a variety of programs but it's harder than you might think to get the word out. But that could be another thread entirely. 

Well, that is focusing on a specific word chosen. Change the UN term of "human right" to "the right of being a citizen of a country" then.

My point still stand.

I guess in that regard then, no, a government shouldn't provide healthcare for every single citizen. There should be programs to cover vulnerable populations but people who can afford to pay for a health plan should.