The Democratic Presidential Debates
Comments
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Agree with pete/biden/amy. I'd be happy with any one of those three candidates. Warren I would reluctantly vote for, to me it would feel like a Hillary vote.mrussel1 said:
PeteF Me In The Brain said:mrussel1 said:
I still say the majority of the part is center-left. The problem is that we're splitting votes between candidates that are fundamentally offering the same policies, whereas Sanders has consolidated almost all of the 30% progressive vote.F Me In The Brain said:The Juggler said:
For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha.F Me In The Brain said:
That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful. What a joke 😂The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)
I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.
It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks.I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie.It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home.Yep. I don't go on Twitter, nor give too many shits about the opinions of others when it comes to how I feel about this despicable orange human filth we have sitting as POTUS...Last time around I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I sure as shit wasn't voting for Trump.Like many, I thought Hillary would win and I would be able to settle in and find someone to support who was more in line with my likes to support in 2020. (I was a Rubio fan most before Donnie Darko took over.)Instead I voted for the pothead from NM, Johnson, and tossed my vote away. Felt very secure that Trump was not winning in NJ...which turned out to be the case.This time, based on how many fucking idiots I see around me blindly supporting the racist wreck, I cannot make that bet, and I will (big, big, big, gulp) vote for a person who I disagree with on a huge percentage of his stances, but who I feel is a very decent human being.As you point out from your Twitter research, my guess would also be that many Never Trumpers walk back that label and cannot support a socialist and vote for Donnie or at least do not vote, or vote 3rd party, which at this point is a vote for Donnie...knowing what we know.As you stated many times, the Democratic party is a horrendous train wreck and seemingly want to lose to Donnie.Sad.What will 2024 look like?Could be, I don't know too much about it. My wife, who has always been blue, is more center-left.So would that mean that everyone but 1-2 of the others need to drop out and leave the 2 extremist elderly folks and 1-2 of the other candidates (please not more elderly folks!) who represent the 'majority' of the party?What does that look like?SandersWarrenWhich 1-2 do you pick?
Amy/BidenI'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the end, hopefully it should cost the average person something like the blue bars in this graph instead of that winning red one. If you are lucky maybe people will live longer, and less babies will die when born also:The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
SC you continue to ignore enough voters get this covered for them by their employer.
Bernie wants to turn in into a tax. It's a lose lose campaign strategy in the electoral college0 -
A Vanderbilt leaning right economically? You don't say.Lerxst1992 said:The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
AC has always leaned slightly to the right on fiscal issues. And to the left on social issues.0 -
lol. Well I do live in the US so I'll go by those standards. I'm pro gun, pro environment, pro education, pro choice, pro fence, I don't care who you marry, and fiscally conservative. The only issue I don't have figured out is the death penalty.ecdanc said:
You mean center left by US standards, right? So, center right....mcgruff10 said:
I'm center left. Since 1996 I have always voted democrat for President and I think I have voted for republicans maybe a handful of times in other elections.ecdanc said:
Strangely enough, I don't disagree with you here. Many moderates and a fair number of "liberals" (not sure which group, mcgruff, for instance considers himself a part of) will decide they'd rather have an openly sexist, staunchly white supremacist, wanna-be dictator than to pay more taxes to make things better for others. Cf, Chris Matthews.F Me In The Brain said:The Juggler said:
For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha.F Me In The Brain said:
That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful. What a joke 😂The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)
I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.
It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks.I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie.It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home.Yep. I don't go on Twitter, nor give too many shits about the opinions of others when it comes to how I feel about this despicable orange human filth we have sitting as POTUS...Last time around I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I sure as shit wasn't voting for Trump.Like many, I thought Hillary would win and I would be able to settle in and find someone to support who was more in line with my likes to support in 2020. (I was a Rubio fan most before Donnie Darko took over.)Instead I voted for the pothead from NM, Johnson, and tossed my vote away. Felt very secure that Trump was not winning in NJ...which turned out to be the case.This time, based on how many fucking idiots I see around me blindly supporting the racist wreck, I cannot make that bet, and I will (big, big, big, gulp) vote for a person who I disagree with on a huge percentage of his stances, but who I feel is a very decent human being.As you point out from your Twitter research, my guess would also be that many Never Trumpers walk back that label and cannot support a socialist and vote for Donnie or at least do not vote, or vote 3rd party, which at this point is a vote for Donnie...knowing what we know.As you stated many times, the Democratic party is a horrendous train wreck and seemingly want to lose to Donnie.Sad.What will 2024 look like?
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
mcgruff10 said:
lol. Well I do live in the US so I'll go by those standards. I'm pro gun, pro environment, pro education, pro choice, pro fence, I don't care who you marry, and fiscally conservative. The only issue I don't have figured out is the death penalty.ecdanc said:
You mean center left by US standards, right? So, center right....mcgruff10 said:
I'm center left. Since 1996 I have always voted democrat for President and I think I have voted for republicans maybe a handful of times in other elections.ecdanc said:
Strangely enough, I don't disagree with you here. Many moderates and a fair number of "liberals" (not sure which group, mcgruff, for instance considers himself a part of) will decide they'd rather have an openly sexist, staunchly white supremacist, wanna-be dictator than to pay more taxes to make things better for others. Cf, Chris Matthews.F Me In The Brain said:The Juggler said:
For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha.F Me In The Brain said:
That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful. What a joke 😂The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)
I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.
It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks.I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie.It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home.Yep. I don't go on Twitter, nor give too many shits about the opinions of others when it comes to how I feel about this despicable orange human filth we have sitting as POTUS...Last time around I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I sure as shit wasn't voting for Trump.Like many, I thought Hillary would win and I would be able to settle in and find someone to support who was more in line with my likes to support in 2020. (I was a Rubio fan most before Donnie Darko took over.)Instead I voted for the pothead from NM, Johnson, and tossed my vote away. Felt very secure that Trump was not winning in NJ...which turned out to be the case.This time, based on how many fucking idiots I see around me blindly supporting the racist wreck, I cannot make that bet, and I will (big, big, big, gulp) vote for a person who I disagree with on a huge percentage of his stances, but who I feel is a very decent human being.As you point out from your Twitter research, my guess would also be that many Never Trumpers walk back that label and cannot support a socialist and vote for Donnie or at least do not vote, or vote 3rd party, which at this point is a vote for Donnie...knowing what we know.As you stated many times, the Democratic party is a horrendous train wreck and seemingly want to lose to Donnie.Sad.What will 2024 look like?
Pro gun and pro fence? Definitely not on the left. You are perhaps to the right of Bloomberg. But thanks for voting with us most of the time!0 -
Fence comment, agree. Gun comment, no. There are degrees to gun control where I absolutely agree, short of banning all firearms (like the Heller case).Lerxst1992 said:mcgruff10 said:
lol. Well I do live in the US so I'll go by those standards. I'm pro gun, pro environment, pro education, pro choice, pro fence, I don't care who you marry, and fiscally conservative. The only issue I don't have figured out is the death penalty.ecdanc said:
You mean center left by US standards, right? So, center right....mcgruff10 said:
I'm center left. Since 1996 I have always voted democrat for President and I think I have voted for republicans maybe a handful of times in other elections.ecdanc said:
Strangely enough, I don't disagree with you here. Many moderates and a fair number of "liberals" (not sure which group, mcgruff, for instance considers himself a part of) will decide they'd rather have an openly sexist, staunchly white supremacist, wanna-be dictator than to pay more taxes to make things better for others. Cf, Chris Matthews.F Me In The Brain said:The Juggler said:
For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha.F Me In The Brain said:
That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful. What a joke 😂The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)
I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.
It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks.I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie.It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home.Yep. I don't go on Twitter, nor give too many shits about the opinions of others when it comes to how I feel about this despicable orange human filth we have sitting as POTUS...Last time around I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I sure as shit wasn't voting for Trump.Like many, I thought Hillary would win and I would be able to settle in and find someone to support who was more in line with my likes to support in 2020. (I was a Rubio fan most before Donnie Darko took over.)Instead I voted for the pothead from NM, Johnson, and tossed my vote away. Felt very secure that Trump was not winning in NJ...which turned out to be the case.This time, based on how many fucking idiots I see around me blindly supporting the racist wreck, I cannot make that bet, and I will (big, big, big, gulp) vote for a person who I disagree with on a huge percentage of his stances, but who I feel is a very decent human being.As you point out from your Twitter research, my guess would also be that many Never Trumpers walk back that label and cannot support a socialist and vote for Donnie or at least do not vote, or vote 3rd party, which at this point is a vote for Donnie...knowing what we know.As you stated many times, the Democratic party is a horrendous train wreck and seemingly want to lose to Donnie.Sad.What will 2024 look like?
Pro gun and pro fence? Definitely not on the left. You are perhaps to the right of Bloomberg. But thanks for voting with us most of the time!0 -
mrussel1 said:
PeteF Me In The Brain said:mrussel1 said:
I still say the majority of the part is center-left. The problem is that we're splitting votes between candidates that are fundamentally offering the same policies, whereas Sanders has consolidated almost all of the 30% progressive vote.F Me In The Brain said:The Juggler said:
For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha.F Me In The Brain said:
That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful. What a joke 😂The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)
I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.
It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks.I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie.It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home.Yep. I don't go on Twitter, nor give too many shits about the opinions of others when it comes to how I feel about this despicable orange human filth we have sitting as POTUS...Last time around I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I sure as shit wasn't voting for Trump.Like many, I thought Hillary would win and I would be able to settle in and find someone to support who was more in line with my likes to support in 2020. (I was a Rubio fan most before Donnie Darko took over.)Instead I voted for the pothead from NM, Johnson, and tossed my vote away. Felt very secure that Trump was not winning in NJ...which turned out to be the case.This time, based on how many fucking idiots I see around me blindly supporting the racist wreck, I cannot make that bet, and I will (big, big, big, gulp) vote for a person who I disagree with on a huge percentage of his stances, but who I feel is a very decent human being.As you point out from your Twitter research, my guess would also be that many Never Trumpers walk back that label and cannot support a socialist and vote for Donnie or at least do not vote, or vote 3rd party, which at this point is a vote for Donnie...knowing what we know.As you stated many times, the Democratic party is a horrendous train wreck and seemingly want to lose to Donnie.Sad.What will 2024 look like?Could be, I don't know too much about it. My wife, who has always been blue, is more center-left.So would that mean that everyone but 1-2 of the others need to drop out and leave the 2 extremist elderly folks and 1-2 of the other candidates (please not more elderly folks!) who represent the 'majority' of the party?What does that look like?SandersWarrenWhich 1-2 do you pick?
Amy/Biden
That would be a start but I don't see Amy/Biden stepping down until they are toast. Tough to see this happening...but it would be better.
The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
mrussel1 said:Obviously if you use the VA as the working model of gov't funded, and gov't provided medical care, it's doesn't really give any of us hope. That has been terribly run, no matter who is the president. And the Chair of VA Affairs at the time of the most controversial issues, that had to be undone by the Obama admin... that's right Bernie Sanders.
The VA is more of the British model and if that is what bernie is going for, he is being foolish.
I'd much prefer a blended system (but with an option for keeping status quo) that incorporates privately run facilities that are good enough for rand paul to travel to Canada for treatment
I think the biggest issue is voting for trump is that would be voting for preexisting conditions and privatizing traditional Medicare
That's a gazillion times more important (to me) than figuring out if I'm losing 5 or 10 grand on bernies policies .
But not a single commenter here seems concerned. Oh well.0 -
This is sort of beside the point, but you touch on something that bothers me when I look at, say, political identification now, and political identification from, say, the 1910s-1930s (the period I study). Back then, being "socially progressive" (or what many now call "Left on social issues" wasn't really a thing connected to the Left (they often coincided, but certainly not all the time). If you supported women's suffrage or greater racial equality (in the pre-Civil Rights era), you weren't considered Left--as these were treated as separate concerns. I still struggle at times when people use Left/Right to describe anything other than economic policy. So, when you say you're "fiscally conservative," I hear "I'm on the Right." The link between various forms of social progress (Civil Rights, gay rights, women's rights, etc.) and economic Leftism is interesting and--using you as an example of sorts--highly ineffective for categorizing politics. I don't know enough about European politics if this is the case elsewhere, but I find it makes navigating political conversations quite difficult. For instance, if someone ways I'm on the political left (in the U.S.), they may mean "I support access to abortion; I'm in favor of gun control; etc.," when historically what they're saying is "I support Leftist economic policies."mcgruff10 said:
lol. Well I do live in the US so I'll go by those standards. I'm pro gun, pro environment, pro education, pro choice, pro fence, I don't care who you marry, and fiscally conservative. The only issue I don't have figured out is the death penalty.ecdanc said:
You mean center left by US standards, right? So, center right....mcgruff10 said:
I'm center left. Since 1996 I have always voted democrat for President and I think I have voted for republicans maybe a handful of times in other elections.ecdanc said:
Strangely enough, I don't disagree with you here. Many moderates and a fair number of "liberals" (not sure which group, mcgruff, for instance considers himself a part of) will decide they'd rather have an openly sexist, staunchly white supremacist, wanna-be dictator than to pay more taxes to make things better for others. Cf, Chris Matthews.F Me In The Brain said:The Juggler said:
For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha.F Me In The Brain said:
That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful. What a joke 😂The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)
I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.
It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks.I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie.It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home.Yep. I don't go on Twitter, nor give too many shits about the opinions of others when it comes to how I feel about this despicable orange human filth we have sitting as POTUS...Last time around I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I sure as shit wasn't voting for Trump.Like many, I thought Hillary would win and I would be able to settle in and find someone to support who was more in line with my likes to support in 2020. (I was a Rubio fan most before Donnie Darko took over.)Instead I voted for the pothead from NM, Johnson, and tossed my vote away. Felt very secure that Trump was not winning in NJ...which turned out to be the case.This time, based on how many fucking idiots I see around me blindly supporting the racist wreck, I cannot make that bet, and I will (big, big, big, gulp) vote for a person who I disagree with on a huge percentage of his stances, but who I feel is a very decent human being.As you point out from your Twitter research, my guess would also be that many Never Trumpers walk back that label and cannot support a socialist and vote for Donnie or at least do not vote, or vote 3rd party, which at this point is a vote for Donnie...knowing what we know.As you stated many times, the Democratic party is a horrendous train wreck and seemingly want to lose to Donnie.Sad.What will 2024 look like?0 -
You and I are pretty damn similar. I'm pro-gun in that I fine with people owning handguns, but I'm not one of these people that think regular citizens should be allowed to have AR-15s. Not sure if you and I differ on that. And I am for the death penalty if the case appropriate. An example for me would be a few years ago, a Pennsylvania inmate serving a life-sentence for murder attacked and stabbed a corrections officer over 200 times, killing him. For that, he was sentenced to ANOTHER life-sentence. Give me a break.mcgruff10 said:
lol. Well I do live in the US so I'll go by those standards. I'm pro gun, pro environment, pro education, pro choice, pro fence, I don't care who you marry, and fiscally conservative. The only issue I don't have figured out is the death penalty.ecdanc said:
You mean center left by US standards, right? So, center right....mcgruff10 said:
I'm center left. Since 1996 I have always voted democrat for President and I think I have voted for republicans maybe a handful of times in other elections.ecdanc said:
Strangely enough, I don't disagree with you here. Many moderates and a fair number of "liberals" (not sure which group, mcgruff, for instance considers himself a part of) will decide they'd rather have an openly sexist, staunchly white supremacist, wanna-be dictator than to pay more taxes to make things better for others. Cf, Chris Matthews.F Me In The Brain said:The Juggler said:
For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha.F Me In The Brain said:
That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful. What a joke 😂The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)
I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.
It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks.I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie.It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home.Yep. I don't go on Twitter, nor give too many shits about the opinions of others when it comes to how I feel about this despicable orange human filth we have sitting as POTUS...Last time around I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I sure as shit wasn't voting for Trump.Like many, I thought Hillary would win and I would be able to settle in and find someone to support who was more in line with my likes to support in 2020. (I was a Rubio fan most before Donnie Darko took over.)Instead I voted for the pothead from NM, Johnson, and tossed my vote away. Felt very secure that Trump was not winning in NJ...which turned out to be the case.This time, based on how many fucking idiots I see around me blindly supporting the racist wreck, I cannot make that bet, and I will (big, big, big, gulp) vote for a person who I disagree with on a huge percentage of his stances, but who I feel is a very decent human being.As you point out from your Twitter research, my guess would also be that many Never Trumpers walk back that label and cannot support a socialist and vote for Donnie or at least do not vote, or vote 3rd party, which at this point is a vote for Donnie...knowing what we know.As you stated many times, the Democratic party is a horrendous train wreck and seemingly want to lose to Donnie.Sad.What will 2024 look like?
2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com0 -
I think we all understand the existential threat to care that Trump poses. I feel like it's a given, and we're arguing of how much further we take Obamacare.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:Obviously if you use the VA as the working model of gov't funded, and gov't provided medical care, it's doesn't really give any of us hope. That has been terribly run, no matter who is the president. And the Chair of VA Affairs at the time of the most controversial issues, that had to be undone by the Obama admin... that's right Bernie Sanders.
The VA is more of the British model and if that is what bernie is going for, he is being foolish.
I'd much prefer a blended system (but with an option for keeping status quo) that incorporates privately run facilities that are good enough for rand paul to travel to Canada for treatment
I think the biggest issue is voting for trump is that would be voting for preexisting conditions and privatizing traditional Medicare
That's a gazillion times more important (to me) than figuring out if I'm losing 5 or 10 grand on bernies policies .
But not a single commenter here seems concerned. Oh well.0 -
mrussel1 said:
I think we all understand the existential threat to care that Trump poses. I feel like it's a given, and we're arguing of how much further we take Obamacare.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:Obviously if you use the VA as the working model of gov't funded, and gov't provided medical care, it's doesn't really give any of us hope. That has been terribly run, no matter who is the president. And the Chair of VA Affairs at the time of the most controversial issues, that had to be undone by the Obama admin... that's right Bernie Sanders.
The VA is more of the British model and if that is what bernie is going for, he is being foolish.
I'd much prefer a blended system (but with an option for keeping status quo) that incorporates privately run facilities that are good enough for rand paul to travel to Canada for treatment
I think the biggest issue is voting for trump is that would be voting for preexisting conditions and privatizing traditional Medicare
That's a gazillion times more important (to me) than figuring out if I'm losing 5 or 10 grand on bernies policies .
But not a single commenter here seems concerned. Oh well.
But there are plenty of "traditional D voters " including a few on here, that are more nervous about Bernies comparatively small cost annually vs potential financial ruin preexisting conditions or privatizing OA Medicare could bring
Even if bernie wins there are enough moderate D in congress that would bring his plan towards the center.
But If trump wins vs Bernie, it will probably be a sweep of all DC like 2016 and we can kiss goodbye those bolded safety nets.
We are looking at the tree not the republican jungle.0 -
Yes, true for those few here that are contemplating crossing over. I did make the same case to McGruff recently that there are checks in the Senate that would control Bernie. There probably aren't 30 senators that would vote for M4A today. Doesn't mean that won't change though. Republicans have thrown their long held principles out the door.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:
I think we all understand the existential threat to care that Trump poses. I feel like it's a given, and we're arguing of how much further we take Obamacare.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:Obviously if you use the VA as the working model of gov't funded, and gov't provided medical care, it's doesn't really give any of us hope. That has been terribly run, no matter who is the president. And the Chair of VA Affairs at the time of the most controversial issues, that had to be undone by the Obama admin... that's right Bernie Sanders.
The VA is more of the British model and if that is what bernie is going for, he is being foolish.
I'd much prefer a blended system (but with an option for keeping status quo) that incorporates privately run facilities that are good enough for rand paul to travel to Canada for treatment
I think the biggest issue is voting for trump is that would be voting for preexisting conditions and privatizing traditional Medicare
That's a gazillion times more important (to me) than figuring out if I'm losing 5 or 10 grand on bernies policies .
But not a single commenter here seems concerned. Oh well.
But there are plenty of "traditional D voters " including a few on here, that are more nervous about Bernies comparatively small cost annually vs potential financial ruin preexisting conditions or privatizing OA Medicare could bring
Even if bernie wins there are enough moderate D in congress that would bring his plan towards the center.
But If trump wins vs Bernie, it will probably be a sweep of all DC like 2016 and we can kiss goodbye those bolded safety nets.
We are looking at the tree not the republican jungle.0 -
1) There are a ridiculous number of different plans and requirements for those plans. Having 1 has to be simpler. Though government running it doesn’t excite me.mrussel1 said:
It's hard to find an example of where a gov't ran something more efficiently than private business. So I don't think that will make a difference and could very well go the other way. Eliminating profit motive is likely folly too, as you need market incentive to invest in research, research that often bears no fruit.cincybearcat said:
Well I think part of it is removing a significant amount of administrative costs. They provide no value just wasted $. I certainly like that aspect. I also am fully on board with no pre-existing condition exclusions. And with people having access to heath care.pjl44 said:
Changing the payor doesn't change the spending. How does he intend to reduce spending/costs?Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the end, hopefully it should cost the average person something like the blue bars in this graph instead of that winning red one. If you are lucky maybe people will live longer, and less babies will die when born also:The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
Im not an expert but my opinion is the move towards it at pace is better. Have it as an option, if it’s the best option more people will move to it.It certainly should be more of an unifying issue than it is really. Now some of the other policies get pretty confrontational.
2) I really wonder what happens to the R&D world of medicine moving forward.hippiemom = goodness0 -
At best the Ds get 50 senators, and many would be moderate and a couple (at least Manchin) conservative.
There are enough checks and balances on bernie to keep any laws in the center left.
But if trump wins we can say Tata to preexisting conditions. (And OA medicare)
I know to many that would never vote bernie that sounds like bizarre language that would "never impact me."
But in reality that is probably the biggest threat to middle class comforts.0 -
The administrative staff at doctors offices...the administrators for every insurance company. Tracking all the different policies, what’s in what’s not, what need pre-approval, what % do we charge, where do we submit all this paperwork... all that non value added nonsense we get with the current system.pjl44 said:
What are "administrative costs" though, specifically? Where is money flowing today that it won't tomorrow? I agree with everything mrussel said, but also don't want to assume that you're interpreting it the same way as us.cincybearcat said:
Well I think part of it is removing a significant amount of administrative costs. They provide no value just wasted $. I certainly like that aspect. I also am fully on board with no pre-existing condition exclusions. And with people having access to heath care.pjl44 said:
Changing the payor doesn't change the spending. How does he intend to reduce spending/costs?Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the end, hopefully it should cost the average person something like the blue bars in this graph instead of that winning red one. If you are lucky maybe people will live longer, and less babies will die when born also:The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
Im not an expert but my opinion is the move towards it at pace is better. Have it as an option, if it’s the best option more people will move to it.It certainly should be more of an unifying issue than it is really. Now some of the other policies get pretty confrontational.hippiemom = goodness0 -
No one thought trump could have won in 2016; my point, anything could happen.mrussel1 said:
Yes, true for those few here that are contemplating crossing over. I did make the same case to McGruff recently that there are checks in the Senate that would control Bernie. There probably aren't 30 senators that would vote for M4A today. Doesn't mean that won't change though. Republicans have thrown their long held principles out the door.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:
I think we all understand the existential threat to care that Trump poses. I feel like it's a given, and we're arguing of how much further we take Obamacare.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:Obviously if you use the VA as the working model of gov't funded, and gov't provided medical care, it's doesn't really give any of us hope. That has been terribly run, no matter who is the president. And the Chair of VA Affairs at the time of the most controversial issues, that had to be undone by the Obama admin... that's right Bernie Sanders.
The VA is more of the British model and if that is what bernie is going for, he is being foolish.
I'd much prefer a blended system (but with an option for keeping status quo) that incorporates privately run facilities that are good enough for rand paul to travel to Canada for treatment
I think the biggest issue is voting for trump is that would be voting for preexisting conditions and privatizing traditional Medicare
That's a gazillion times more important (to me) than figuring out if I'm losing 5 or 10 grand on bernies policies .
But not a single commenter here seems concerned. Oh well.
But there are plenty of "traditional D voters " including a few on here, that are more nervous about Bernies comparatively small cost annually vs potential financial ruin preexisting conditions or privatizing OA Medicare could bring
Even if bernie wins there are enough moderate D in congress that would bring his plan towards the center.
But If trump wins vs Bernie, it will probably be a sweep of all DC like 2016 and we can kiss goodbye those bolded safety nets.
We are looking at the tree not the republican jungle.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
This point is something I’ve been forced to think about as Bernie moves towards the nomination. How does the presidential ticket affect my vote on state and even local areas.Lerxst1992 said:At best the Ds get 50 senators, and many would be moderate and a couple (at least Manchin) conservative.
There are enough checks and balances on bernie to keep any laws in the center left.
But if trump wins we can say Tata to preexisting conditions. (And OA medicare)
I know to many that would never vote bernie that sounds like bizarre language that would "never impact me."
But in reality that is probably the biggest threat to middle class comforts.The midterms I voted all democrat for the 1st time in my life. It was a direct response to trump. If Bernie is on the ticket, perhaps I swallow my political pride so to speak and vote for him, but counter that vote some with my other candidates on the ballot. And then again, maybe none of it mattershippiemom = goodness0 -
Gotcha. You'd definitely see some reduction but it wouldn't be dramatic. It's basically the same as if two insurers merge - there's some streamlining but because of volume you're still going to need the majority of those people. And that's just the insurance company end - I don't see where you'd get any reduction at doctor's offices. The people who are dealing with Blue Cross and Aetna today will be dealing with the government tomorrow.cincybearcat said:
The administrative staff at doctors offices...the administrators for every insurance company. Tracking all the different policies, what’s in what’s not, what need pre-approval, what % do we charge, where do we submit all this paperwork... all that non value added nonsense we get with the current system.pjl44 said:
What are "administrative costs" though, specifically? Where is money flowing today that it won't tomorrow? I agree with everything mrussel said, but also don't want to assume that you're interpreting it the same way as us.cincybearcat said:
Well I think part of it is removing a significant amount of administrative costs. They provide no value just wasted $. I certainly like that aspect. I also am fully on board with no pre-existing condition exclusions. And with people having access to heath care.pjl44 said:
Changing the payor doesn't change the spending. How does he intend to reduce spending/costs?Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the end, hopefully it should cost the average person something like the blue bars in this graph instead of that winning red one. If you are lucky maybe people will live longer, and less babies will die when born also:The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.
Im not an expert but my opinion is the move towards it at pace is better. Have it as an option, if it’s the best option more people will move to it.It certainly should be more of an unifying issue than it is really. Now some of the other policies get pretty confrontational.0 -
Why do you think the US has double the cost?pjl44 said:
Changing the payor doesn't change the spending. How does he intend to reduce spending/costs?Spiritual_Chaos said:
In the end, hopefully it should cost the average person something like the blue bars in this graph instead of that winning red one. If you are lucky maybe people will live longer, and less babies will die when born also:The Juggler said:Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad.Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost.Praising Fidel Castro.Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER.This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh.Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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