The Democratic Presidential Debates

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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    When Yang flies, he flies coach like normal people.  The rest of the time it's this:


    I just hope SOMEBODY beats Trump (and I will vote for that Dem somebody), but I'm doubtful that most of the big name candidates will really do much to change things a whole lot because they are in the box.  It's time for us to think and act outside the box.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    As the reality of the first caucus results come in, and I see how strongly Sanders is finishing, I've had my first, "oh shit" moment when I realized I may have to vote for that man if he's the nominee. I don't think I can do it. Honestly. I can vote for any of the others. I don't think I can vote for Bernie. 
    We have a Nationalist in the White House. We could replace him with a Socialist. I cannot vote to replace one side of a coin for the other.
    I'm having one of those nights of despair.    
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,389
    what dreams said:
    As the reality of the first caucus results come in, and I see how strongly Sanders is finishing, I've had my first, "oh shit" moment when I realized I may have to vote for that man if he's the nominee. I don't think I can do it. Honestly. I can vote for any of the others. I don't think I can vote for Bernie. 
    We have a Nationalist in the White House. We could replace him with a Socialist. I cannot vote to replace one side of a coin for the other.
    I'm having one of those nights of despair.    
    populist both.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    what dreams said:
    As the reality of the first caucus results come in, and I see how strongly Sanders is finishing, I've had my first, "oh shit" moment when I realized I may have to vote for that man if he's the nominee. I don't think I can do it. Honestly. I can vote for any of the others. I don't think I can vote for Bernie. 
    We have a Nationalist in the White House. We could replace him with a Socialist. I cannot vote to replace one side of a coin for the other.
    I'm having one of those nights of despair.    
    Nationalism is not the flip side of socialism. That equation simply makes no sense. 

    And it still amazes me how frightened the USA is of socialism. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    edited February 2020
    oftenreading said:
    what dreams said:
    As the reality of the first caucus results come in, and I see how strongly Sanders is finishing, I've had my first, "oh shit" moment when I realized I may have to vote for that man if he's the nominee. I don't think I can do it. Honestly. I can vote for any of the others. I don't think I can vote for Bernie. 
    We have a Nationalist in the White House. We could replace him with a Socialist. I cannot vote to replace one side of a coin for the other.
    I'm having one of those nights of despair.    
    Nationalism is not the flip side of socialism. That equation simply makes no sense. 

    And it still amazes me how frightened the USA is of socialism. 

    Perhaps what_dreams was thinking of a hexagonal coin.  Stood on edge, there are several sides.  :wink:

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • RoleModelsinBlood31
    RoleModelsinBlood31 Austin TX Posts: 6,239
    what dreams said:
    As the reality of the first caucus results come in, and I see how strongly Sanders is finishing, I've had my first, "oh shit" moment when I realized I may have to vote for that man if he's the nominee. I don't think I can do it. Honestly. I can vote for any of the others. I don't think I can vote for Bernie. 
    We have a Nationalist in the White House. We could replace him with a Socialist. I cannot vote to replace one side of a coin for the other.
    I'm having one of those nights of despair.    
    Bernie Bernie Bernie.  Bernie to me isn’t a socialist, he only preaches socialism.  His entire portfolio is in Fortune 500 companies, none of which are green or sustainable, they’re just classic capitalist $$ companies.  He’s not into spreading out wealth and he’s certainly not against the rich billionaires he claims he is if they contribute to his campaign.  Give to his campaign and he’ll side with you pretty much.  He’s into keeping it within his family and making sure they get as much as they can.  He created a job out of thin air for his wife-much to the shigrin of others in govt there in Burlington when he was elected mayor of Burlington so she could get a paycheck. People were like “dude, at least create the job publicly so others can apply so it looks more legit.” Nada. then he created an LLC with her and his kids as the owners so they could collect $$ when his campaign purchased media advertising in ‘16.  They made millions of bucks off of his own campaign media purchases and dumped it into this LLC company named old Towne media who two other folks &  his wife made money off of.  I’m pretty sure it’s legal, but it’s certainly not what he wants folks to find out about.  Anyway yeah.

    Here’s an old article from 2016 about that campaign- I read earlier today and sadly wasn’t surprised. They’re all the same. It was written by a progressive investigative reporter from Vermont:

    https://vtdigger.org/2016/07/15/sanders-campaign-millions-go-to-mystery-firm/

    “all politicians are shady” I suppose this falls into.


    I'm like an opening band for your mom.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    what dreams said:
    As the reality of the first caucus results come in, and I see how strongly Sanders is finishing, I've had my first, "oh shit" moment when I realized I may have to vote for that man if he's the nominee. I don't think I can do it. Honestly. I can vote for any of the others. I don't think I can vote for Bernie. 
    We have a Nationalist in the White House. We could replace him with a Socialist. I cannot vote to replace one side of a coin for the other.
    I'm having one of those nights of despair.    
    I see these results and conclude the opposite... for the moment.   I see Pete's performance as a reaffirmation that the party is fundamentally center.  I don't think the progressives have the delegates in a one on one matchup.  I'm more concerned about Warren dropping early. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    I don't see anything wrong with saying socialism is the other end if the spectrum from nationalism.  It's an entirely defensible position,  particularly in the historical sense. 
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,114
    what dreams said:
    As the reality of the first caucus results come in, and I see how strongly Sanders is finishing, I've had my first, "oh shit" moment when I realized I may have to vote for that man if he's the nominee. I don't think I can do it. Honestly. I can vote for any of the others. I don't think I can vote for Bernie. 
    We have a Nationalist in the White House. We could replace him with a Socialist. I cannot vote to replace one side of a coin for the other.
    I'm having one of those nights of despair.    
    I understand what you are saying and agree. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mrussel1 said:
    I don't see anything wrong with saying socialism is the other end if the spectrum from nationalism.  It's an entirely defensible position,  particularly in the historical sense. 
    No. Not based on the definitions of these terms, and not based on how they work in practice. It is entirely possible to be a nationalist socialist, or a globalist capitalist. They are different concepts. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    But in any case, the fear of socialism is still mind boggling and without any basis in fact. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,860
    oftenreading said:
    But in any case, the fear of socialism is still mind boggling and without any basis in fact. 

    Republicans have ingrained into a large percentage of Americans that any govt program is bad because it’s either a tax increase or a giveaway to the poor or both. You definitely do not want to give anything to the poor, because it’s all their fault. 

    You can not even have a rational discussion about the topic with about 40-45% of the population. And I live in one of the bluest states.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,302
    It appears Pete and Bernie took over 50% of the votes.  Page 6 news now ...
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    oftenreading said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I don't see anything wrong with saying socialism is the other end if the spectrum from nationalism.  It's an entirely defensible position,  particularly in the historical sense. 
    No. Not based on the definitions of these terms, and not based on how they work in practice. It is entirely possible to be a nationalist socialist, or a globalist capitalist. They are different concepts. 
    Your examples are accurate and essentially make my point. The implementation of economic and political philosophies cross lines and pure definitions.  That's why I said the point is defensible, not that i agree with it.  There's no inarguable answer  And if you want to get technical,  one is more of an economic philosophy while the other is governing.   
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,471
    edited February 2020
    mcgruff10 said:
    @Spiritual_Chaos you were pissed at Eddie for taking a private jet, are you mad at Elizabeth?

    Climate Change Champion Elizabeth Warren Arrives On Her Private Jet

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vavV0Q94MhA&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR2x9aoE2VMvZl_0oSdfJXsejJ6Kb3feekEapPMSrAg4_sUjrb0MKVg7jrE
    When have I said I was pissed Eddie was flying a private jet?

    Please do not ascribe me opinions on your own whim, thank you very much.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,471
    edited February 2020
    what dreams said:
    As the reality of the first caucus results come in, and I see how strongly Sanders is finishing, I've had my first, "oh shit" moment when I realized I may have to vote for that man if he's the nominee. I don't think I can do it. Honestly. I can vote for any of the others. I don't think I can vote for Bernie. 
    We have a Nationalist in the White House. We could replace him with a Socialist. I cannot vote to replace one side of a coin for the other.
    I'm having one of those nights of despair.    
    How about being a tad less disingenuous and title him "democratic socialist" as you know he is, and he has clearly stated. 

    And somehow being scared of social democracy/Democratic socialism which helped build some of the most sound and fair societies in the world is, in my belief a sign that someone needs to step out of their bubble a little.

    And also, you are having a fascist in the white house. Calling him a nationliats is downplaying it. Just come to terms with it. He doesn't care about "America". He cares about himself, his own power and being able to use his power to hurt the ones he doesn't like.

    Having a night of despair because of replacing that with Sanders is in my belief only showing the power of propaganda. It is just in one word "sad".

    "Why can't we just let american companies bribe people?"

    VS

    "Women in America should not have to die at our numbers giving birth"

    Social Democracy that helped give people healthcare, union rights, human rights, equality, strong social safety nets vs Trump-fascism branding everyone who isn't white subhuman. My gosh, that really is two sides of the same coin. No difference at all. I happen to believe (read: know) there is a fundamental difference, making this kind of talk nothing but unfortunate.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,471
    edited February 2020
    I'm happy to have had Pete (the most unsympathetic candidate after Bloomberg) win Iowa, if nothing else but because of this trash:


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,389
    part of bernies wiki page.....



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,367
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    I'm happy to have had Pete (the most unsympathetic candidate after Bloomberg) win Iowa, if nothing else but because of this trash:


    How does one earn an "unsympathetic" rating from Spiritual_Chaos? 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,471
    edited February 2020
    benjs said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    I'm happy to have had Pete (the most unsympathetic candidate after Bloomberg) win Iowa, if nothing else but because of this trash:


    How does one earn an "unsympathetic" rating from Spiritual_Chaos? 
    I had a friend, who when going out was solely focused on going home with someone at the end of the night. When meeting up buying alcohol, drinking at home before going out laughing at youtube clips of Pierce Brosnan from the movie Mama Mia! and all the hours being out drinking this was the one thing on his mind. To find a woman to have sex with.

    And when early morning came, drinking the last beers at an afterparty or leaving the pub on the bus - and it dawned on him that there were no more chance of him going home with someone but instead  e.g. me doing just that. Then, he would out of desperation and his own ego/selfishness start to desperately, unbecoming and shitty try to ply apart e.g. me and the woman and out of this desperation - whatever it cost - tried to get in the way and compete against me for the person. This person he was understanding was planning on going home with e.g. me.

    This to me, is Pete Buttagieg. That desperation to be someone/the president. Whatever it takes. I think he would be the most prone to "fight dirty", to be the most unbecoming in the race and who out of his own ego believe he should get what he wants.

    He doesn't come off as sympathetic but more of an opportunist who would shit on anything or bend what he believes and thinks to reach his goals. 
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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