The Democratic Presidential Debates
Comments
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Ha!cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:0 -
mrussel1 said:
That should absolutely pay more taxes. But there's a hundred companies that fall into that same bucket. Jeff Bezos is a minority shareholder in Amazon. He only owns 4%. So imagine if he put up a measure to the board and shareholders (me, and probably lots of people on this board, through their retirement) to pay some amount of taxes not required by law. It would fail. It's not his call and I can guarantee you no shareholder majority would go for it. The problem is the tax code, not Amazon.brianlux said:mrussel1 said:
I agree with protecting or otherwise supporting small business owners. I don't have the solution, although I'm against breaking up Amazon. I think that's bad for consumers, to be honest. They also aren't a monopoly by any current law, so there's no basis for it either. That being said, finding a way so consumers are incentivized to buy local would be great, and I'm be very supportive of programs that do that.brianlux said:mrussel1 said:
While I understand your situation, and you may be altruistic in nature, the reality is that such an economic scale would create a situation where employers are incentivized to hire part time workers only. And why wouldn't they? If I could hire 1.5 people at $10 per hour vs 1 at $15, my employee expense is 30% less. It it wouldn't be Amazon that does this, it would be small and medium businesses where people expenses eats up a higher % of revenue. This was the danger of Obamacare and it absolutely has played out. In fact, the accounting firm that my wife works for has that exact policy. 30 hours max. Now it's great for us because we don't want her to work more than 30, but she couldn't work there if she wanted more.brianlux said:mrussel1 said:
But Brian, I seem to recall you being against a minimum wage of $15 per hour because your business couldn't support it. These workers are above that number.brianlux said:ecdanc said:
They don't need to do that- they get plenty fucked already by low wages and poor working conditions. And they and most of us pay all the taxes while Bezos pays none and buys his islands!I'm like a Republican that way- I'm only against something except for when I'm not. LOL Let me explain:I am the sole employee of my small part-time book and vinyl business which nets me less than minimum wage but I enjoy it and, because I have no pension or any other form of retirement income except social security, it helps. So what I'm saying here will relate to the bookstore business my wife and her business partner own and for which I help out part-time at a little over minimum wage:I am in favor of a living wage for workers who rely on their work related income. In other words- a working person who relies on their paycheck to support themselves and/or a family, that person should earn at least a minimum wage in order to do so. But many small businesses- my wife's is a good example- rely on part-time help to stay afloat. The bookstore has had a number of employees who work their either to supplement their income post retirement (people who only get social security and need a little extra to get by) or students who want a little extra income before they go off into the world of full-time work. I think there should be an exception to minimum wage for businesses that hire part-time help for those folks. Some small businesses- used bookstores are an excellent example- run on a thin margin. Some years it gets really close to the wire trying to stay afloat. If the minimum wage right now were $15 for all employees- we would have to let someone go- not so that we could live the Bezos life- but so that we could keep the business going. And that store is a big asset to our community. I cannot tell you how many times I've head customers say, "I hope you never close, that would be terrible." I'm sure there are other small businesses like that. I can think of several used bookstores and record stores that have gone out of business due to high cost of running a small business that I sorely miss. To name a few:Chimeras Book, Palo AltoWessex Used Books, Menlo ParkSunset Books, San FranciscoThe Beat (record and CD store in Sacramento)Cody's Books, BerkeleyThe Book Worm, FolsomKepler's Books (actually still in business but only due to a very large donation)
You make some good points and yes, there would have to be some way of preventing abuse of my proposed system. I'm honestly not sure how that would work. Maybe I'm looking at it backwards. Maybe there needs to be some way to protect small businesses from being run out of business by people like Bezos. I say this because I know from experience that small businesses add a lot of social and cultural value to small towns (e.g. The Bookery/ Placerville) and neighborhood in cities (e.g. Dog Eared Books in the Mission District of San Francisco). When those small businesses are unable to stay afloat, the community or neighborhood loses some of its quality as a place to live.
I'm very much down on Amazon for two reasons: Bezos' ambition to drive small businesses out of business, and Amazon paying zero taxes. It amazes me that more people are not outraged by that later point. I just don't get it. But I don't hate the idea of Amazon altogether. I'm not at all against on-line shopping. Were it not for on-line sources, much of the music I enjoy would not be available to me in my preferred format- vinyl. But I do strongly think Amazon should pay taxes, not make it a priority to close down small independent retailers, pay their employees a living wage, and improve their working conditions.
From what I've read, I think a Value Added Tax might be one solution.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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Jeff Bezos wasn't just some institutional investor who pulled a corporate raid on a little book service. This was his idea. Is your problem with VC's and PE's only?ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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Don’t be all name calley, I ain’t in your class you can’t tell me that your assumptions are truth and I’ll fail if I go against those assumptions.ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
hippiemom = goodness0 -
Not “only.”mrussel1 said:
Jeff Bezos wasn't just some institutional investor who pulled a corporate raid on a little book service. This was his idea. Is your problem with VC's and PE's only?ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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I’m not challenging any assumptions; just your reading ability, I this case.cincybearcat said:
Don’t be all name calley, I ain’t in your class you can’t tell me that your assumptions are truth and I’ll fail if I go against those assumptions.ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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*inecdanc said:
I’m not challenging any assumptions; just your reading ability, I this case.cincybearcat said:
Don’t be all name calley, I ain’t in your class you can’t tell me that your assumptions are truth and I’ll fail if I go against those assumptions.ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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=/= ?Is that equal divided by equal?Would that be the same as infinity or zero?MATH I'm good with but math is not my strong suit.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
mrussel1 said:
Jeff Bezos wasn't just some institutional investor who pulled a corporate raid on a little book service. This was his idea. Is your problem with VC's and PE's only?ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
Maybe just those that make billions in income but do not pay income tax?0 -
His reading ability is fine and his question exposes the gap in a 19th century book applied to a 21st century economy. The lines between proletariat and bourgeoisie have blurred. You continue to be cagey on the topic but that's simply because good answers don't exist.ecdanc said:
I’m not challenging any assumptions; just your reading ability, I this case.cincybearcat said:
Don’t be all name calley, I ain’t in your class you can’t tell me that your assumptions are truth and I’ll fail if I go against those assumptions.ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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I literally don’t know what the fuck y’all are talking about. Please point me to the post where I said anything about intellectual labor.mrussel1 said:
His reading ability is fine and his question exposes the gap in a 19th century book applied to a 21st century economy. The lines between proletariat and bourgeoisie have blurred. You continue to be cagey on the topic but that's simply because good answers don't exist.ecdanc said:
I’m not challenging any assumptions; just your reading ability, I this case.cincybearcat said:
Don’t be all name calley, I ain’t in your class you can’t tell me that your assumptions are truth and I’ll fail if I go against those assumptions.ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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Oh wait, so even though intellectual property is considered a tangible asset legally (you know, like capital), you call it "labor"? Ha! That's rich.ecdanc said:
I literally don’t know what the fuck y’all are talking about. Please point me to the post where I said anything about intellectual labor.mrussel1 said:
His reading ability is fine and his question exposes the gap in a 19th century book applied to a 21st century economy. The lines between proletariat and bourgeoisie have blurred. You continue to be cagey on the topic but that's simply because good answers don't exist.ecdanc said:
I’m not challenging any assumptions; just your reading ability, I this case.cincybearcat said:
Don’t be all name calley, I ain’t in your class you can’t tell me that your assumptions are truth and I’ll fail if I go against those assumptions.ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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Oh, your capitalist laws say something! Zing?mrussel1 said:
Oh wait, so even though intellectual property is considered a tangible asset legally (you know, like capital), you call it "labor"? Ha! That's rich.ecdanc said:
I literally don’t know what the fuck y’all are talking about. Please point me to the post where I said anything about intellectual labor.mrussel1 said:
His reading ability is fine and his question exposes the gap in a 19th century book applied to a 21st century economy. The lines between proletariat and bourgeoisie have blurred. You continue to be cagey on the topic but that's simply because good answers don't exist.ecdanc said:
I’m not challenging any assumptions; just your reading ability, I this case.cincybearcat said:
Don’t be all name calley, I ain’t in your class you can’t tell me that your assumptions are truth and I’ll fail if I go against those assumptions.ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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Um no, common law, passed on through the centuries of western legal precedent. Do you commies have your own legal system too?ecdanc said:
Oh, your capitalist laws say something! Zing?mrussel1 said:
Oh wait, so even though intellectual property is considered a tangible asset legally (you know, like capital), you call it "labor"? Ha! That's rich.ecdanc said:
I literally don’t know what the fuck y’all are talking about. Please point me to the post where I said anything about intellectual labor.mrussel1 said:
His reading ability is fine and his question exposes the gap in a 19th century book applied to a 21st century economy. The lines between proletariat and bourgeoisie have blurred. You continue to be cagey on the topic but that's simply because good answers don't exist.ecdanc said:
I’m not challenging any assumptions; just your reading ability, I this case.cincybearcat said:
Don’t be all name calley, I ain’t in your class you can’t tell me that your assumptions are truth and I’ll fail if I go against those assumptions.ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
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Not yet. But we do look at your “western” legal tradition as a buncha bullshit.mrussel1 said:
Um no, common law, passed on through the centuries of western legal precedent. Do you commies have your own legal system too?ecdanc said:
Oh, your capitalist laws say something! Zing?mrussel1 said:
Oh wait, so even though intellectual property is considered a tangible asset legally (you know, like capital), you call it "labor"? Ha! That's rich.ecdanc said:
I literally don’t know what the fuck y’all are talking about. Please point me to the post where I said anything about intellectual labor.mrussel1 said:
His reading ability is fine and his question exposes the gap in a 19th century book applied to a 21st century economy. The lines between proletariat and bourgeoisie have blurred. You continue to be cagey on the topic but that's simply because good answers don't exist.ecdanc said:
I’m not challenging any assumptions; just your reading ability, I this case.cincybearcat said:
Don’t be all name calley, I ain’t in your class you can’t tell me that your assumptions are truth and I’ll fail if I go against those assumptions.ecdanc said:
Don’t be dopey. I said capital =/= work. Never said anything about intellectual labor.cincybearcat said:
I just did.ecdanc said:
That would be weird. Let me know if you see a professor doing that.cincybearcat said:
It seems weird for a professor to minimize intellectual property/effort. Isn’t that what teaching is? I for one think that has value.mrussel1 said:
You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory. If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance? Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US. We don't need theories when we have results.ecdanc said:
Post edited by ecdanc on0 -
@mcgruff10 this is when you make a Gulag joke...0
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I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0
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I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0
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