The Democratic Presidential Debates

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  • Posts: 1,814
    PJPOWER said:
    Care to offer an example where that is the case?  You seem to struggle with logic and reasoning...and reality.
    This exchange. 
  • PJPOWER said:
    Maybe you should google “communist state”...
    Maybe you should google "A beginners guide to historic ideologies" before participating. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    No shit, but we're talking about Communism as practiced which is essentially Leninism.  I've already said that as a philosophy Communism is interesting, but in practice, human nature corrupts it.  You said "there's no such thing as human nature", and I said "fine then Communism is corrupt" because I'm not arguing dumb points.  We have real live evidence of Communism in practice.  We don't have to read books to see how it will go.  The same is true for capitalism.  On paper, laissez-faire capitalism looks all well and good, but it had serious flaws.  This is how we've evolved to a market based economy, with certain government controls (read: regulations) with sprinkles of socialism (social security, medicare, medicaid, etc.).
    I really don't think you know much about Soviet history....

    I'll give it to you, your take on human nature makes me chuckle. I was just typing up some notes for my graduate students about the myth of human nature and how, in my class, they don't get to disagree with that position. 
  • Posts: 30,879
    ecdanc said:
    People. 

    Also "other things are bad" does not refute the claim "this is bad." 
    to that I would quote the famous, but unknown author "Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others".  The same goes for capitalism.  In the real world, you have to make decisions and trade offs.  It's kind of the bitch about life.  
  • Posts: 31,463
    edited January 2020
    mrussel1 said:
    to that I would quote the famous, but unknown author "Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others".  The same goes for capitalism.  In the real world, you have to make decisions and trade offs.  It's kind of the bitch about life.  
    Agree
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    to that I would quote the famous, but unknown author "Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others".  The same goes for capitalism.  In the real world, you have to make decisions and trade offs.  It's kind of the bitch about life.  
    Who are you trading off? The poors, right?
  • Posts: 6,499
    ecdanc said:
    This exchange. 
    I think you’re projecting your own inadequacies now, but I won’t hold it against you, it’s got to be frustrating living in a country that will most likely never align with your communism utopia fantasy. 
  • Posts: 6,499
    edited January 2020
    Maybe you should google "A beginners guide to historic ideologies" before participating. 
    Wow, captain pretentious with a come back.  You assume too much.  It’s all good, like chicken strips.
  • Posts: 1,814
    PJPOWER said:
    I think you’re projecting your own inadequacies now, but I won’t hold it against you, it’s got to be frustrating living in a country that will most likely never align with your communism utopia fantasy. 
    Very. Even more frustrating than dealing with people who think "fuck communism" is a thoughtful statement. 
  • PJPOWER said:
    Wow, captain pretentious with a come back.  You assume too much.
    Burn your assumptions. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Posts: 30,879
    ecdanc said:
    Who are you trading off? The poors, right?
    You are being intentionally obtuse or argumentative.... or both. 
  • Posts: 30,879
    ecdanc said:
    I really don't think you know much about Soviet history....

    I'll give it to you, your take on human nature makes me chuckle. I was just typing up some notes for my graduate students about the myth of human nature and how, in my class, they don't get to disagree with that position. 
    If anything, you've shown you are not open to disagreement, so I'm sure that extends to your classroom.  It must be a very robust academic environment.  You truly are tailored made for a communist state.  
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    You are being intentionally obtuse or argumentative.... or both. 
    You said we have to make decisions and tradeoffs. I'm pointing out that historically the tradeoff for capitalism has been "we'll trade poor people for wealth accumulation." People are all about sacrifice when it's not their sacrifice. 
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    If anything, you've shown you are not open to disagreement, so I'm sure that extends to your classroom.  It must be a very robust academic environment.  You truly are tailored made for a communist state.  
    Are you the guy who thinks flat earthers should be treated respectfully in science classes?
  • Posts: 30,879
    ecdanc said:
    Are you the guy who thinks flat earthers should be treated respectfully in science classes?
    Yet another ridiculous comparison.  I'm not getting back into your belief that philosophical concepts are unassailable.  That is just arrogance. 
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    Yet another ridiculous comparison.  I'm not getting back into your belief that philosophical concepts are unassailable.  That is just arrogance. 
    Is it more arrogant for me to say "the discipline in which I'm an expert has epistemological foundations (i.e., what counts as knowledge) just like science does?" Or for you to say "no it doesn't?" 
  • Posts: 30,879
    ecdanc said:
    Is it more arrogant for me to say "the discipline in which I'm an expert has epistemological foundations (i.e., what counts as knowledge) just like science does?" Or for you to say "no it doesn't?" 
    Your refusal to be open to competing philosophical arguments is the arrogance.  A satellite image of Earth is pretty unassailable.  

    You still have not provided a persuasive argument that Communism has succeeded for a nation.  
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    1) Your refusal to be open to competing philosophical arguments is the arrogance.  A satellite image of Earth is pretty unassailable.  

    2) You still have not provided a persuasive argument that Communism has succeeded for a nation.  
    1) You're really embracing the dismissal of entire academic disciplines. I'm used to it, but you don't get the high ground on accusations of arrogance if you're going to do that. 

    2) I haven't tried to. 
  • Posts: 30,879
    ecdanc said:
    1) You're really embracing the dismissal of entire academic disciplines. I'm used to it, but you don't get the high ground on accusations of arrogance if you're going to do that. 

    2) I haven't tried to. 
    Once more, you totally misrepresent a position.  No one dismissed your position, nor did I say that there is absolutely human nature.  You are the one that is dismissive of counter-arguments, going so far as doing so in your classroom.  You are projecting your issues on us.  
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    Once more, you totally misrepresent a position.  No one dismissed your position, nor did I say that there is absolutely human nature.  You are the one that is dismissive of counter-arguments, going so far as doing so in your classroom.  You are projecting your issues on us.  
    Because my discipline has rejected the notion of human nature. It wasn't my decision, no more than current scientists decided the earth is round. What's complicated about that?

    I mean, you seem to imagine higher education as a space where all ideas (no matter how inane) should be treated equally. 
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