The Democratic Presidential Debates
Comments
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Nevermind the fact that they're not sitting on vaults of cash like Scrooge McDuck. Much of that wealth is their businesses and other investments. You're not going to liquidate half of Amazon and pay for someone's bloated tuition.0
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Every single economic system has had substantial collateral damage to humans. Communism, with the consolidation of power into a few, has shown itself to be both brutal AND ineffective.ecdanc said:
You should realize we don't disagree on a vital point here: capitalism HAS been "successful." I'm claiming that its "success" is predicated on horrible things happening to large numbers of people. Bubonic plague was pretty successful in the Middle Ages, but that doesn't mean I'm going to celebrate it.mrussel1 said:
No, the economic failure shaped the view. Communism had its chance. It failed. It subjected its people to abject poverty, oppression and murder. The historical record is clear. You are the ignorant one, pretending it didn't happen. If it was so successful, why is it dead?ecdanc said:
It's pretentious to point out that the Cold War shaped entire generations' (distorted) views of communism? If ignorance is the alternative to pretension, I'll take the latter.PJPOWER said:
That’s a bit pretentious, but nothing new.Spiritual_Chaos said:
People being trigged by someone mentioning the word "communism"PJPOWER said:If someone wants to live under a communist state, there are opportunities out there. If you are waiting around for the US to fulfill your communist dreams, you are either ignorant or insincere about your commy desire, otherwise you would have moved to a communist state already...
and fuck Communism
That 1950s McCarthyism to 1980s action movie indoctrination never fully goes away, does it.
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You might want to do some basic research on the US wealth gap.pjl44 said:
I am. Even if you completely liquidated him tomorrow every American would get $286. People like to get all red-assed over millionaires and billionaires but the scale is such that looting them isn't really going to make a dent in anything.ecdanc said:
So you're ok with Jeff Bezos being worth over 100 billion dollars?cincybearcat said:
No I just think a bullshit statement saying how much anyone should make is just that, bullshit. And usually made by those that do a lot less.ecdanc said:
Less than I should (definitely on the tax side of things). If you think "you're not perfect" is a winning comeback to "things should be different," this conversation isn't going to go anywhere.cincybearcat said:
So how much $ are you contributing to society at the moment? How much in taxes? Donations? No bullshit.ecdanc said:
Me and others—that’s how it works.cincybearcat said:
Selfish. That’s nice. I forgot though you are the communist that just wants other to pay for your everything. So it’s not a surprise.ecdanc said:
No one needs 150k a year. Don’t be so selfish.cincybearcat said:
I know. It’s weird what people care about. You just want to do whatever you want and take what you need from others to make up for your inabilities.ecdanc said:
Don’t care how you got there.cincybearcat said:all you trying to nail down what’s enough and what’s ok for someone based on a number. You have no idea how anyone got there. It’s ducking sickening.Bet you bitch about Pearl Jam ticket prices too don’t you?0 -
The internet: where simultaneously no one is an expert and everyone is an expert.PJPOWER said:
Much. You can say “fuck whatever” all you want and not upset me in the least professor. It’s just when you pretentiously act like you know what you are talking about that irritates me and others around here.ecdanc said:
Apologies, I'll strive for the educated and appropriately humble approach you deploy: fuck capitalism. Better?PJPOWER said:
You seem to have plenty of both.ecdanc said:
It's pretentious to point out that the Cold War shaped entire generations' (distorted) views of communism? If ignorance is the alternative to pretension, I'll take the latter.PJPOWER said:
That’s a bit pretentious, but nothing new.Spiritual_Chaos said:
People being trigged by someone mentioning the word "communism"PJPOWER said:If someone wants to live under a communist state, there are opportunities out there. If you are waiting around for the US to fulfill your communist dreams, you are either ignorant or insincere about your commy desire, otherwise you would have moved to a communist state already...
and fuck Communism
That 1950s McCarthyism to 1980s action movie indoctrination never fully goes away, does it.0 -
With communism there would not be a "state". So that is a contradiction on your part, or what you are talking about is not the ideology of communism.mrussel1 said:Regarding your point, I think communism, as it were, could probably be fine in a small group of people. But in a nation state, it has utterly failed.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Capitalism's effects are not "collateral damage"--its destructiveness is its very essence.mrussel1 said:
Every single economic system has had substantial collateral damage to humans. Communism, with the consolidation of power into a few, has shown itself to be both brutal AND ineffective.ecdanc said:
You should realize we don't disagree on a vital point here: capitalism HAS been "successful." I'm claiming that its "success" is predicated on horrible things happening to large numbers of people. Bubonic plague was pretty successful in the Middle Ages, but that doesn't mean I'm going to celebrate it.mrussel1 said:
No, the economic failure shaped the view. Communism had its chance. It failed. It subjected its people to abject poverty, oppression and murder. The historical record is clear. You are the ignorant one, pretending it didn't happen. If it was so successful, why is it dead?ecdanc said:
It's pretentious to point out that the Cold War shaped entire generations' (distorted) views of communism? If ignorance is the alternative to pretension, I'll take the latter.PJPOWER said:
That’s a bit pretentious, but nothing new.Spiritual_Chaos said:
People being trigged by someone mentioning the word "communism"PJPOWER said:If someone wants to live under a communist state, there are opportunities out there. If you are waiting around for the US to fulfill your communist dreams, you are either ignorant or insincere about your commy desire, otherwise you would have moved to a communist state already...
and fuck Communism
That 1950s McCarthyism to 1980s action movie indoctrination never fully goes away, does it.0 -
Again, the Soviet Union tried that. It didn't work. The planning came from Moscow and they treated the true Russians very differently than the Ukrainians, the Poles, etc. So the scourge of nationalism and ethnicity continued to drive Moscow.Spiritual_Chaos said:
With communism there would not be a "state". So that is a contradiction on your part, or what you are talking about is not the idea of communism.mrussel1 said:Regarding your point, I think communism, as it were, could probably be fine in a small group of people. But in a nation state, it has utterly failed.0 -
Destruction of what? Do you think the act of exploiting the resources of the weaker developed during the 17th century when market economies began? I'm pretty sure the Romans, Greeks, Persions, Carthaginians, Egyptians and plenty of others ended up in the same place.ecdanc said:
Capitalism's effects are not "collateral damage"--its destructiveness is its very essence.mrussel1 said:
Every single economic system has had substantial collateral damage to humans. Communism, with the consolidation of power into a few, has shown itself to be both brutal AND ineffective.ecdanc said:
You should realize we don't disagree on a vital point here: capitalism HAS been "successful." I'm claiming that its "success" is predicated on horrible things happening to large numbers of people. Bubonic plague was pretty successful in the Middle Ages, but that doesn't mean I'm going to celebrate it.mrussel1 said:
No, the economic failure shaped the view. Communism had its chance. It failed. It subjected its people to abject poverty, oppression and murder. The historical record is clear. You are the ignorant one, pretending it didn't happen. If it was so successful, why is it dead?ecdanc said:
It's pretentious to point out that the Cold War shaped entire generations' (distorted) views of communism? If ignorance is the alternative to pretension, I'll take the latter.PJPOWER said:
That’s a bit pretentious, but nothing new.Spiritual_Chaos said:
People being trigged by someone mentioning the word "communism"PJPOWER said:If someone wants to live under a communist state, there are opportunities out there. If you are waiting around for the US to fulfill your communist dreams, you are either ignorant or insincere about your commy desire, otherwise you would have moved to a communist state already...
and fuck Communism
That 1950s McCarthyism to 1980s action movie indoctrination never fully goes away, does it.0 -
You're not even correct at the most basic level, man. There are variants of communism. Some actually have a very strong, centralized state (e.g., the USSR); others do not (e.g., anarcho-communism).mrussel1 said:
Again, the Soviet Union tried that. It didn't work. The planning came from Moscow and they treated the true Russians very differently than the Ukrainians, the Poles, etc. So the scourge of nationalism and ethnicity continued to drive Moscow.Spiritual_Chaos said:
With communism there would not be a "state". So that is a contradiction on your part, or what you are talking about is not the idea of communism.mrussel1 said:Regarding your point, I think communism, as it were, could probably be fine in a small group of people. But in a nation state, it has utterly failed.0 -
You seem to like definitive words (no one, everyone). Unusual for someone that claims to have philosophy knowledge. I usually avoid them, but that’s just me.ecdanc said:
The internet: where simultaneously no one is an expert and everyone is an expert.PJPOWER said:
Much. You can say “fuck whatever” all you want and not upset me in the least professor. It’s just when you pretentiously act like you know what you are talking about that irritates me and others around here.ecdanc said:
Apologies, I'll strive for the educated and appropriately humble approach you deploy: fuck capitalism. Better?PJPOWER said:
You seem to have plenty of both.ecdanc said:
It's pretentious to point out that the Cold War shaped entire generations' (distorted) views of communism? If ignorance is the alternative to pretension, I'll take the latter.PJPOWER said:
That’s a bit pretentious, but nothing new.Spiritual_Chaos said:
People being trigged by someone mentioning the word "communism"PJPOWER said:If someone wants to live under a communist state, there are opportunities out there. If you are waiting around for the US to fulfill your communist dreams, you are either ignorant or insincere about your commy desire, otherwise you would have moved to a communist state already...
and fuck Communism
That 1950s McCarthyism to 1980s action movie indoctrination never fully goes away, does it.0 -
mrussel1 said:
Again, the Soviet Union tried that. It didn't work. The planning came from Moscow and they treated the true Russians very differently than the Ukrainians, the Poles, etc. So the scourge of nationalism and ethnicity continued to drive Moscow.Spiritual_Chaos said:
With communism there would not be a "state". So that is a contradiction on your part, or what you are talking about is not the idea of communism.mrussel1 said:Regarding your point, I think communism, as it were, could probably be fine in a small group of people. But in a nation state, it has utterly failed.
Then why does it's current version basically run America if it didn't work?0 -
When did Soviet Union try that?mrussel1 said:
Again, the Soviet Union tried that. It didn't work. The planning came from Moscow and they treated the true Russians very differently than the Ukrainians, the Poles, etc. So the scourge of nationalism and ethnicity continued to drive Moscow.Spiritual_Chaos said:
With communism there would not be a "state". So that is a contradiction on your part, or what you are talking about is not the idea of communism.mrussel1 said:Regarding your point, I think communism, as it were, could probably be fine in a small group of people. But in a nation state, it has utterly failed.
Labeling your dictatorship communist =/= the ideology of communism
I would also argue your "HISTORY HAS PROVEN" is wrong, because you do not have enough cases to draw shit from. A handful of vile dictatorships during a very tiny window in history labeling themselves an ideology isn't proof of anything.
And with that, i think you should engage in a discussion with ecdanc about ideas instead of having the closedminded Rocky 4-goggles on.Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Maybe you should google “communist state”...Spiritual_Chaos said:
With communism there would not be a "state". So that is a contradiction on your part, or what you are talking about is not the ideology of communism.mrussel1 said:Regarding your point, I think communism, as it were, could probably be fine in a small group of people. But in a nation state, it has utterly failed.0 -
You seem to struggle with reading.PJPOWER said:
You seem to like definitive words (no one, everyone). Unusual for someone that claims to have philosophy knowledge. I usually avoid them, but that’s just me.ecdanc said:
The internet: where simultaneously no one is an expert and everyone is an expert.PJPOWER said:
Much. You can say “fuck whatever” all you want and not upset me in the least professor. It’s just when you pretentiously act like you know what you are talking about that irritates me and others around here.ecdanc said:
Apologies, I'll strive for the educated and appropriately humble approach you deploy: fuck capitalism. Better?PJPOWER said:
You seem to have plenty of both.ecdanc said:
It's pretentious to point out that the Cold War shaped entire generations' (distorted) views of communism? If ignorance is the alternative to pretension, I'll take the latter.PJPOWER said:
That’s a bit pretentious, but nothing new.Spiritual_Chaos said:
People being trigged by someone mentioning the word "communism"PJPOWER said:If someone wants to live under a communist state, there are opportunities out there. If you are waiting around for the US to fulfill your communist dreams, you are either ignorant or insincere about your commy desire, otherwise you would have moved to a communist state already...
and fuck Communism
That 1950s McCarthyism to 1980s action movie indoctrination never fully goes away, does it.0 -
No shit, but we're talking about Communism as practiced which is essentially Leninism. I've already said that as a philosophy Communism is interesting, but in practice, human nature corrupts it. You said "there's no such thing as human nature", and I said "fine then Communism is corrupt" because I'm not arguing dumb points. We have real live evidence of Communism in practice. We don't have to read books to see how it will go. The same is true for capitalism. On paper, laissez-faire capitalism looks all well and good, but it had serious flaws. This is how we've evolved to a market based economy, with certain government controls (read: regulations) with sprinkles of socialism (social security, medicare, medicaid, etc.).ecdanc said:
You're not even correct at the most basic level, man. There are variants of communism. Some actually have a very strong, centralized state (e.g., the USSR); others do not (e.g., anarcho-communism).mrussel1 said:
Again, the Soviet Union tried that. It didn't work. The planning came from Moscow and they treated the true Russians very differently than the Ukrainians, the Poles, etc. So the scourge of nationalism and ethnicity continued to drive Moscow.Spiritual_Chaos said:
With communism there would not be a "state". So that is a contradiction on your part, or what you are talking about is not the idea of communism.mrussel1 said:Regarding your point, I think communism, as it were, could probably be fine in a small group of people. But in a nation state, it has utterly failed.0 -
And my point on capitalism is why I'm dead set against Objectivism, which is essentially on the other end of the spectrum from Communism/Leninism.0
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People.mrussel1 said:
Destruction of what? Do you think the act of exploiting the resources of the weaker developed during the 17th century when market economies began? I'm pretty sure the Romans, Greeks, Persions, Carthaginians, Egyptians and plenty of others ended up in the same place.ecdanc said:
Capitalism's effects are not "collateral damage"--its destructiveness is its very essence.mrussel1 said:
Every single economic system has had substantial collateral damage to humans. Communism, with the consolidation of power into a few, has shown itself to be both brutal AND ineffective.ecdanc said:
You should realize we don't disagree on a vital point here: capitalism HAS been "successful." I'm claiming that its "success" is predicated on horrible things happening to large numbers of people. Bubonic plague was pretty successful in the Middle Ages, but that doesn't mean I'm going to celebrate it.mrussel1 said:
No, the economic failure shaped the view. Communism had its chance. It failed. It subjected its people to abject poverty, oppression and murder. The historical record is clear. You are the ignorant one, pretending it didn't happen. If it was so successful, why is it dead?ecdanc said:
It's pretentious to point out that the Cold War shaped entire generations' (distorted) views of communism? If ignorance is the alternative to pretension, I'll take the latter.PJPOWER said:
That’s a bit pretentious, but nothing new.Spiritual_Chaos said:
People being trigged by someone mentioning the word "communism"PJPOWER said:If someone wants to live under a communist state, there are opportunities out there. If you are waiting around for the US to fulfill your communist dreams, you are either ignorant or insincere about your commy desire, otherwise you would have moved to a communist state already...
and fuck Communism
That 1950s McCarthyism to 1980s action movie indoctrination never fully goes away, does it.
Also "other things are bad" does not refute the claim "this is bad."0 -
Care to offer an example where that is the case? You seem to struggle with logic and reasoning...and reality.ecdanc said:
You seem to struggle with reading.PJPOWER said:
You seem to like definitive words (no one, everyone). Unusual for someone that claims to have philosophy knowledge. I usually avoid them, but that’s just me.ecdanc said:
The internet: where simultaneously no one is an expert and everyone is an expert.PJPOWER said:
Much. You can say “fuck whatever” all you want and not upset me in the least professor. It’s just when you pretentiously act like you know what you are talking about that irritates me and others around here.ecdanc said:
Apologies, I'll strive for the educated and appropriately humble approach you deploy: fuck capitalism. Better?PJPOWER said:
You seem to have plenty of both.ecdanc said:
It's pretentious to point out that the Cold War shaped entire generations' (distorted) views of communism? If ignorance is the alternative to pretension, I'll take the latter.PJPOWER said:
That’s a bit pretentious, but nothing new.Spiritual_Chaos said:
People being trigged by someone mentioning the word "communism"PJPOWER said:If someone wants to live under a communist state, there are opportunities out there. If you are waiting around for the US to fulfill your communist dreams, you are either ignorant or insincere about your commy desire, otherwise you would have moved to a communist state already...
and fuck Communism
That 1950s McCarthyism to 1980s action movie indoctrination never fully goes away, does it.0
This discussion has been closed.
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