The Democratic Presidential Debates

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  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Wouldn’t Surprise me. Sanders fans are the 2nd worst political group in the USA currently.
    Oooh, oooh, give me the full rankings!! Where do suburbanite Trump supporters fall? What about white supremacists? Communists? 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,480
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That I think that web site is nothing but bull shit.  It is literally Bernie’s policies.  

    Ah, I get what you're saying: you think the positions themselves are bullshit; I thought you were saying the page wasn't real or something. 
    No I am saying the web site is bs.  (Although I don’t agree with any of the positions on the web site)

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    I’d have more faith in them if there had been a QueersAgainstTrump organization and mobilization drive. Seems more like a Putin on the ritz troll farm operation than a legit politic organization. They registered as a 501c3?

    Did you hear all of Team Trump Treason’s comments about all the hot body, good looking dudes who supported him throughout impeachment? I mean it really bordered on getting sexual, breathless as he was in his descriptions. Maybe he should just come out? NTTIAWWT. He’d still be POTUS and first is better than third. And some think Biden is creepy?
    Wait, would you trust them more or less if they were 501c3?
    More.
    You have a highly circumscribed notion of what constitutes politics, it appears. 
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mcgruff10 said:
    Referring to queers against Pete:
    Mayor Pete doesn’t have an alternative for police.   People want to get rid of the police?! What the heck?
    I do. 
  • ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Referring to queers against Pete:
    Mayor Pete doesn’t have an alternative for police.   People want to get rid of the police?! What the heck?
    I do. 
    Is your alternative Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - Ohio?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    I’d have more faith in them if there had been a QueersAgainstTrump organization and mobilization drive. Seems more like a Putin on the ritz troll farm operation than a legit politic organization. They registered as a 501c3?

    Did you hear all of Team Trump Treason’s comments about all the hot body, good looking dudes who supported him throughout impeachment? I mean it really bordered on getting sexual, breathless as he was in his descriptions. Maybe he should just come out? NTTIAWWT. He’d still be POTUS and first is better than third. And some think Biden is creepy?
    Wait, would you trust them more or less if they were 501c3?
    More.
    You have a highly circumscribed notion of what constitutes politics, it appears. 
    Maybe I should have said are they registered as a PAC or any type of organization that would lend them an ounce of credibility? It seems you may confuse what might be legitimate in this age of troll farms and social media that can’t possibly influence an election, particularly a democratic primary season. Did you register on their site or link for the email blasts?

    Berniebrosises not having a queersagainsttrumppence after Team Trump Treason embraced the rainbow flag then basically did an about face on so many LGBTA policies should be a clue, yes?
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  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Referring to queers against Pete:
    Mayor Pete doesn’t have an alternative for police.   People want to get rid of the police?! What the heck?
    I do. 
    Is your alternative Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - Ohio?
    David Crosby is a Buttigieg supporter!!!
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,133
    edited February 2020
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Now THIS is some bullshit. You draw a false (convenient, for you) dichotomy between "grassroots" concerns and "Sanders....supporters." Do you people find it somehow surprising that queer leftists agree with the farthest left candidate? 
    He said what he didn't think the site was, based on the way the site presents, then he said what he does think it was, based on the way the site presents (i.e. almost a carbon copy of Bernie's stated policies in list form). Then, add in the context of Bernie Bros behaviours from the last election, the fact that Sanders and Buttigieg were neck-in-neck in Iowa, and it's pretty hard to see this site as a sincere call to action.

    I also don't think there was any intention to highlight those as opposites or to create a contrast - your response was the first time I even thought about this as an 'either/or' discussion. 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,499
    edited February 2020
    Pete being a weasel is working.


    Buttigieg Surges, Biden Slips In New NH Polling | Morning Joe | MSNBC

    https://youtu.be/P_jgTYFLzG8


    "Or as I like to call them,

    future

    former

    republicans"-ing himself all the way to the white house.

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Referring to queers against Pete:
    Mayor Pete doesn’t have an alternative for police.   People want to get rid of the police?! What the heck?
    I do. 
    Is your alternative Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - Ohio?
    David Crosby is a Buttigieg supporter!!!
    He only says that to further his conflict with Neil.

    You never have been shy about talking politics. Do you have a horse in the presidential race?

    Neil: I’m with Bernie [Sanders] all the way. Hillary [Clinton] definitely has experience, but Bernie’s the one I believe. I agree with his message, and my way of thinking is more important to me than whether the media thinks Bernie Sanders has a chance at winning. So many people love him. There’s a lot of people like me who are really concerned about the issues — Bernie’s the guy for that.



    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,133
    Pete being a weasel is working.


    Buttigieg Surges, Biden Slips In New NH Polling | Morning Joe | MSNBC

    https://youtu.be/P_jgTYFLzG8


    "Or as I like to call them,

    future

    former

    republicans"-ing himself all the way to the white house.

    As is Bernie being obnoxious and unrealistic, if we're lobbing cheap shots over the wall. BTW, your guy also jumped on the Buttigieg train, and followed his lead to announce a premature win. Looking forward to finding out why Pete's a weasel when he does it, but why Sanders is a person for the people when he does.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Biden's starting to look like this year's Jeb. Still early though. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,659
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Now THIS is some bullshit. You draw a false (convenient, for you) dichotomy between "grassroots" concerns and "Sanders....supporters." Do you people find it somehow surprising that queer leftists agree with the farthest left candidate? 
    No, it's that the positions look so perfectly aligned, they appear to be Sanders supporters who are running what is essentially a negative ad against Pete.  I don't find it unusual that queer leftists support Sandes, nor would I expect homogeneous support of Pete just because he's gay.  At the same time, when the pattern of 'complaints' against Pete so perfectly tie into Sanders campaign promises, then I think it's dirty pool.  If you want to advocate for Bernie, that's great.  I love it.  But don't do it in this way, designed to specifically damage Pete's support in the community, without making it clear that you're really pro-Bernie.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,499
    edited February 2020
    benjs said:
    Pete being a weasel is working.


    Buttigieg Surges, Biden Slips In New NH Polling | Morning Joe | MSNBC

    https://youtu.be/P_jgTYFLzG8


    "Or as I like to call them,

    future

    former

    republicans"-ing himself all the way to the white house.

    As is Bernie being obnoxious and unrealistic, if we're lobbing cheap shots over the wall. BTW, your guy also jumped on the Buttigieg train, and followed his lead to announce a premature win. Looking forward to finding out why Pete's a weasel when he does it, but why Sanders is a person for the people when he does.

    I happen to believe, that everyone should have shut up and waited for the voting (or whatever it is with all these different weird systems to not have normal voting) to be done.

    But, in what way is Bernie obnoxious and unrealistic in this context?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,659
    Biden's starting to look like this year's Jeb. Still early though. 
    I think that the left-center support is starting to coalesce around Pete. There's a feeling he may be real and has a chance, which wasn't the case a few months ago.  As Pete surges, Biden will fall.  The same is happening on the Sander/Warren side.  

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/481972-buttigieg-surges-ahead-of-new-hampshire-primary-poll
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    benjs said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Now THIS is some bullshit. You draw a false (convenient, for you) dichotomy between "grassroots" concerns and "Sanders....supporters." Do you people find it somehow surprising that queer leftists agree with the farthest left candidate? 
    He said what he didn't think the site was, based on the way the site presents, then he said what he does think it was, based on the way the site presents (i.e. almost a carbon copy of Bernie's stated policies in list form). Then, add in the context of Bernie Bros behaviours from the last election, the fact that Sanders and Buttigieg were neck-in-neck in Iowa, and it's pretty hard to see this site as a sincere call to action.

    I also don't think there was any intention to highlight those as opposites or to create a contrast - your response was the first time I even thought about this as an 'either/or' discussion. 
    I can't judge his intent, only what he wrote. Here's my take: this is a group of authentic individuals 1) who are queer, 2) who see a member of the LGBTQIA community who is gaining in popularity and who has political stances with which they don't agree, and 3) whose politics align with Sanders's. Is that grassroots? Are some Sanders supporters part of the "grassroots" and others aren't? Or are they all, by definition, not (which is what mrussel seemed to imply)? Is there some litmus test for what constitutes "a sincere call to action?"

    Like, I get disagreeing with the positions--that's expected and part of the political landscape. I don't really get the attempt to invalidate the people (not just their political stances) by drawing a divide between "real" people practicing politics and the implicit "fake" people (Russians even!) posters here seem to be worried about. I don't find it difficult to believe the veracity/authenticity of QueersagainstPete because I know a ton of people like this--they're a huge part of my Facebook feed. Are they Sanders supporters? Yes! Are they sincere in their concern about Buttigieg? Absolutely. What's weird about that?


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,659
    ecdanc said:
    benjs said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Now THIS is some bullshit. You draw a false (convenient, for you) dichotomy between "grassroots" concerns and "Sanders....supporters." Do you people find it somehow surprising that queer leftists agree with the farthest left candidate? 
    He said what he didn't think the site was, based on the way the site presents, then he said what he does think it was, based on the way the site presents (i.e. almost a carbon copy of Bernie's stated policies in list form). Then, add in the context of Bernie Bros behaviours from the last election, the fact that Sanders and Buttigieg were neck-in-neck in Iowa, and it's pretty hard to see this site as a sincere call to action.

    I also don't think there was any intention to highlight those as opposites or to create a contrast - your response was the first time I even thought about this as an 'either/or' discussion. 
    I can't judge his intent, only what he wrote. Here's my take: this is a group of authentic individuals 1) who are queer, 2) who see a member of the LGBTQIA community who is gaining in popularity and who has political stances with which they don't agree, and 3) whose politics align with Sanders's. Is that grassroots? Are some Sanders supporters part of the "grassroots" and others aren't? Or are they all, by definition, not (which is what mrussel seemed to imply)? Is there some litmus test for what constitutes "a sincere call to action?"

    Like, I get disagreeing with the positions--that's expected and part of the political landscape. I don't really get the attempt to invalidate the people (not just their political stances) by drawing a divide between "real" people practicing politics and the implicit "fake" people (Russians even!) posters here seem to be worried about. I don't find it difficult to believe the veracity/authenticity of QueersagainstPete because I know a ton of people like this--they're a huge part of my Facebook feed. Are they Sanders supporters? Yes! Are they sincere in their concern about Buttigieg? Absolutely. What's weird about that?


    I replied to you above. 
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    benjs said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Now THIS is some bullshit. You draw a false (convenient, for you) dichotomy between "grassroots" concerns and "Sanders....supporters." Do you people find it somehow surprising that queer leftists agree with the farthest left candidate? 
    He said what he didn't think the site was, based on the way the site presents, then he said what he does think it was, based on the way the site presents (i.e. almost a carbon copy of Bernie's stated policies in list form). Then, add in the context of Bernie Bros behaviours from the last election, the fact that Sanders and Buttigieg were neck-in-neck in Iowa, and it's pretty hard to see this site as a sincere call to action.

    I also don't think there was any intention to highlight those as opposites or to create a contrast - your response was the first time I even thought about this as an 'either/or' discussion. 
    I can't judge his intent, only what he wrote. Here's my take: this is a group of authentic individuals 1) who are queer, 2) who see a member of the LGBTQIA community who is gaining in popularity and who has political stances with which they don't agree, and 3) whose politics align with Sanders's. Is that grassroots? Are some Sanders supporters part of the "grassroots" and others aren't? Or are they all, by definition, not (which is what mrussel seemed to imply)? Is there some litmus test for what constitutes "a sincere call to action?"

    Like, I get disagreeing with the positions--that's expected and part of the political landscape. I don't really get the attempt to invalidate the people (not just their political stances) by drawing a divide between "real" people practicing politics and the implicit "fake" people (Russians even!) posters here seem to be worried about. I don't find it difficult to believe the veracity/authenticity of QueersagainstPete because I know a ton of people like this--they're a huge part of my Facebook feed. Are they Sanders supporters? Yes! Are they sincere in their concern about Buttigieg? Absolutely. What's weird about that?


    I replied to you above. 
    Came through as I was typing my comment. Thanks. 
  • mrussel1 said:
    Biden's starting to look like this year's Jeb. Still early though. 
    I think that the left-center support is starting to coalesce around Pete. There's a feeling he may be real and has a chance, which wasn't the case a few months ago.  As Pete surges, Biden will fall.  The same is happening on the Sander/Warren side.  

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/481972-buttigieg-surges-ahead-of-new-hampshire-primary-poll
    Also thehill on Pete:

    Panel: Did Pete's 'fake' win give him a real bump?

    https://youtu.be/RDDYEJXTGoc

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,882
    edited February 2020
    mrussel1 said:
    Biden's starting to look like this year's Jeb. Still early though. 
    I think that the left-center support is starting to coalesce around Pete. There's a feeling he may be real and has a chance, which wasn't the case a few months ago.  As Pete surges, Biden will fall.  The same is happening on the Sander/Warren side.  

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/481972-buttigieg-surges-ahead-of-new-hampshire-primary-poll
    The thing for me is that if you take Trump out of the equation and these Dems were the only candidates for president, I'd vote for Pete. I dunno, I just like him (despite the fact that I'm an independent that leans conservative) and particularly like that he's close to me in age. But I truly believe Biden is the only one with a chance in the general against Trump. So if I was registered Dem, I'd vote for Biden in the primary in hopes he'd take on Trump. But I live in Pennsylvania and because the primary system is so stupid, Biden might not even be around (like Jeb, at this rate) when my state gets to vote. 
    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
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    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,659
    mrussel1 said:
    Biden's starting to look like this year's Jeb. Still early though. 
    I think that the left-center support is starting to coalesce around Pete. There's a feeling he may be real and has a chance, which wasn't the case a few months ago.  As Pete surges, Biden will fall.  The same is happening on the Sander/Warren side.  

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/481972-buttigieg-surges-ahead-of-new-hampshire-primary-poll
    Also thehill on Pete:

    Panel: Did Pete's 'fake' win give him a real bump?

    https://youtu.be/RDDYEJXTGoc

    So one thing you have to understand about the Hill.  It is owned by a major Trump supporter and close friend.  So all this pro-Bernie stuff and anti-Pete and anti- Biden narrative that comes from Krystal Ball and these people is also dirty.  Pete's win isn't 'fake'.  WTF does that even mean?  He and Bernie essentially tied and they both declared victory.  Good for both of them.  And yes, Pete's bump is real.  
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Now THIS is some bullshit. You draw a false (convenient, for you) dichotomy between "grassroots" concerns and "Sanders....supporters." Do you people find it somehow surprising that queer leftists agree with the farthest left candidate? 
    No, it's that the positions look so perfectly aligned, they appear to be Sanders supporters who are running what is essentially a negative ad against Pete.  I don't find it unusual that queer leftists support Sandes, nor would I expect homogeneous support of Pete just because he's gay.  At the same time, when the pattern of 'complaints' against Pete so perfectly tie into Sanders campaign promises, then I think it's dirty pool.  If you want to advocate for Bernie, that's great.  I love it.  But don't do it in this way, designed to specifically damage Pete's support in the community, without making it clear that you're really pro-Bernie.  
    Are you against all "negative" campaigning? I put the word "negative" in quotes, because I don't mean it in the traditional sense. Rather, I mean are you against all forms of politics that say "I'm against X" (with X either being a political position or a candidate)? And thus the only form of acceptable statement is "I'm for X" (with X being either a political position or a candidate)? If that's so, I don't necessarily disagree; I just think it would be a tough stance to uphold. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,659
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Now THIS is some bullshit. You draw a false (convenient, for you) dichotomy between "grassroots" concerns and "Sanders....supporters." Do you people find it somehow surprising that queer leftists agree with the farthest left candidate? 
    No, it's that the positions look so perfectly aligned, they appear to be Sanders supporters who are running what is essentially a negative ad against Pete.  I don't find it unusual that queer leftists support Sandes, nor would I expect homogeneous support of Pete just because he's gay.  At the same time, when the pattern of 'complaints' against Pete so perfectly tie into Sanders campaign promises, then I think it's dirty pool.  If you want to advocate for Bernie, that's great.  I love it.  But don't do it in this way, designed to specifically damage Pete's support in the community, without making it clear that you're really pro-Bernie.  
    Are you against all "negative" campaigning? I put the word "negative" in quotes, because I don't mean it in the traditional sense. Rather, I mean are you against all forms of politics that say "I'm against X" (with X either being a political position or a candidate)? And thus the only form of acceptable statement is "I'm for X" (with X being either a political position or a candidate)? If that's so, I don't necessarily disagree; I just think it would be a tough stance to uphold. 
    I don't like negative campaigning in general, but I agree that's a tough stance.  However, I definitely do not like negative campaigning intra-party.  You damage the party candidate and it's hard to walk that back.  But if you're going to do it, at least be transparent.  This is both negative and lacks transparency IF (and I say if which is the basis of my critique) it came from a group of people/person specifically aligned with Sanders.  
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mcgruff10 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That I think that web site is nothing but bull shit.  It is literally Bernie’s policies.  

    Ah, I get what you're saying: you think the positions themselves are bullshit; I thought you were saying the page wasn't real or something. 
    No I am saying the web site is bs.  (Although I don’t agree with any of the positions on the web site)

    Again, what does that mean? Pretend I'm one of your students: how is this site bs?
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,435
    ecdanc said:
    benjs said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Now THIS is some bullshit. You draw a false (convenient, for you) dichotomy between "grassroots" concerns and "Sanders....supporters." Do you people find it somehow surprising that queer leftists agree with the farthest left candidate? 
    He said what he didn't think the site was, based on the way the site presents, then he said what he does think it was, based on the way the site presents (i.e. almost a carbon copy of Bernie's stated policies in list form). Then, add in the context of Bernie Bros behaviours from the last election, the fact that Sanders and Buttigieg were neck-in-neck in Iowa, and it's pretty hard to see this site as a sincere call to action.

    I also don't think there was any intention to highlight those as opposites or to create a contrast - your response was the first time I even thought about this as an 'either/or' discussion. 
    I can't judge his intent, only what he wrote. Here's my take: this is a group of authentic individuals 1) who are queer, 2) who see a member of the LGBTQIA community who is gaining in popularity and who has political stances with which they don't agree, and 3) whose politics align with Sanders's. Is that grassroots? Are some Sanders supporters part of the "grassroots" and others aren't? Or are they all, by definition, not (which is what mrussel seemed to imply)? Is there some litmus test for what constitutes "a sincere call to action?"

    Like, I get disagreeing with the positions--that's expected and part of the political landscape. I don't really get the attempt to invalidate the people (not just their political stances) by drawing a divide between "real" people practicing politics and the implicit "fake" people (Russians even!) posters here seem to be worried about. I don't find it difficult to believe the veracity/authenticity of QueersagainstPete because I know a ton of people like this--they're a huge part of my Facebook feed. Are they Sanders supporters? Yes! Are they sincere in their concern about Buttigieg? Absolutely. What's weird about that?


    Anyone rallying around anything that calls itself "_____ Against _____" during a primary of your own parties candidates are a bunch of lapdogs for one of the other candidates. Bernie and his supporters always act this way.  Since they know they can't get enough people "for" them....start tearing down the threats.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Biden's starting to look like this year's Jeb. Still early though. 
    I think that the left-center support is starting to coalesce around Pete. There's a feeling he may be real and has a chance, which wasn't the case a few months ago.  As Pete surges, Biden will fall.  The same is happening on the Sander/Warren side.  

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/481972-buttigieg-surges-ahead-of-new-hampshire-primary-poll
    Also thehill on Pete:

    Panel: Did Pete's 'fake' win give him a real bump?

    https://youtu.be/RDDYEJXTGoc

    So one thing you have to understand about the Hill.  It is owned by a major Trump supporter and close friend.  So all this pro-Bernie stuff and anti-Pete and anti- Biden narrative that comes from Krystal Ball and these people is also dirty.  Pete's win isn't 'fake'.  WTF does that even mean?  He and Bernie essentially tied and they both declared victory.  Good for both of them.  And yes, Pete's bump is real.  
    Ugh. Krystal Ball, she gives me the creeps.

    The lefts answer to the Shaun Hannitys of the world. Intellectually and morally bankrupt.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,619
    edited February 2020
    mrussel1 said:
    Biden's starting to look like this year's Jeb. Still early though. 
    I think that the left-center support is starting to coalesce around Pete. There's a feeling he may be real and has a chance, which wasn't the case a few months ago.  As Pete surges, Biden will fall.  The same is happening on the Sander/Warren side.  

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/481972-buttigieg-surges-ahead-of-new-hampshire-primary-poll
    Also thehill on Pete:

    Panel: Did Pete's 'fake' win give him a real bump?

    https://youtu.be/RDDYEJXTGoc



    We had one candidate, one, that had a solid ten point lead over trump.

    But he is not a shining glossy debater, so we've ripped him to shreds.

    Every single general election poll is now much worse than it's been since the midterms. At one point trump was unpopular in iowa as Dems came within a whisker of winning all house seats there. Now trump is solidly ahead there. Thanks  Bernie.


    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/#

    Thanks democrats and thanks Warren Sanders for your fantasies of turning our healthcare and colleges into socialist havens.

    Now we are gunning for Pete 

    Four more years. Thanks. Bernie.
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    I’d have more faith in them if there had been a QueersAgainstTrump organization and mobilization drive. Seems more like a Putin on the ritz troll farm operation than a legit politic organization. They registered as a 501c3?

    Did you hear all of Team Trump Treason’s comments about all the hot body, good looking dudes who supported him throughout impeachment? I mean it really bordered on getting sexual, breathless as he was in his descriptions. Maybe he should just come out? NTTIAWWT. He’d still be POTUS and first is better than third. And some think Biden is creepy?
    Wait, would you trust them more or less if they were 501c3?
    More.
    You have a highly circumscribed notion of what constitutes politics, it appears. 
    Maybe I should have said are they registered as a PAC or any type of organization that would lend them an ounce of credibility? It seems you may confuse what might be legitimate in this age of troll farms and social media that can’t possibly influence an election, particularly a democratic primary season. Did you register on their site or link for the email blasts?

    Berniebrosises not having a queersagainsttrumppence after Team Trump Treason embraced the rainbow flag then basically did an about face on so many LGBTA policies should be a clue, yes?
    So anyone who isn't a PAC or "any type of organization" can't make a credible political statement? Are you a PAC? Can you make credible political statements?

    As for the last part, gtfo. Trust me: the queer folks I know have done more to combat Trump than most. 
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    ecdanc said:

    Are those old videos? If you are going to post old videos it would be helpful to include the date. Pete’s comment is from 2017. I’m assuming Bloomberg is the same.

    Context is everything. Back in 2016/17 democrats significantly underestimated Trumps impact and loyalty among his base. And since then, trump has solidified his hold over conservatives and right leaning moderates. Back then, many thought  Never Trumpers would be a real thing in the gop. Now they only exist on TV, not IRL. Also since then, Sanders has been tagged a socialist which is a dirty word in the states. Back then, he did have a chance to sneak in, especially having Obama as a leftist president with the bully pulpit.

    Bloomberg is smart, and supports what would be by far the most progressive healthcare plan in the history of the US. Bloomberg has opened up full time campaign offices and hired full time staff that will stay open until November whether he wins the nomination or not. THAT is a smart team player. Meanwhile, Bernie lost half his IA voters from last time. If this was a Bernie revolution, why would he lose supporters, even if there are more candidates? 
    “Obama...a leftist.” That’s rich. 

    Would you rather "left of center president?"
    Center will suffice. 
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    ecdanc said:
    benjs said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What does that even mean?
    That it’s not some grassroots level concern.  I agree.  This is coming from Sanders directly or from his supporters.
    Now THIS is some bullshit. You draw a false (convenient, for you) dichotomy between "grassroots" concerns and "Sanders....supporters." Do you people find it somehow surprising that queer leftists agree with the farthest left candidate? 
    He said what he didn't think the site was, based on the way the site presents, then he said what he does think it was, based on the way the site presents (i.e. almost a carbon copy of Bernie's stated policies in list form). Then, add in the context of Bernie Bros behaviours from the last election, the fact that Sanders and Buttigieg were neck-in-neck in Iowa, and it's pretty hard to see this site as a sincere call to action.

    I also don't think there was any intention to highlight those as opposites or to create a contrast - your response was the first time I even thought about this as an 'either/or' discussion. 
    I can't judge his intent, only what he wrote. Here's my take: this is a group of authentic individuals 1) who are queer, 2) who see a member of the LGBTQIA community who is gaining in popularity and who has political stances with which they don't agree, and 3) whose politics align with Sanders's. Is that grassroots? Are some Sanders supporters part of the "grassroots" and others aren't? Or are they all, by definition, not (which is what mrussel seemed to imply)? Is there some litmus test for what constitutes "a sincere call to action?"

    Like, I get disagreeing with the positions--that's expected and part of the political landscape. I don't really get the attempt to invalidate the people (not just their political stances) by drawing a divide between "real" people practicing politics and the implicit "fake" people (Russians even!) posters here seem to be worried about. I don't find it difficult to believe the veracity/authenticity of QueersagainstPete because I know a ton of people like this--they're a huge part of my Facebook feed. Are they Sanders supporters? Yes! Are they sincere in their concern about Buttigieg? Absolutely. What's weird about that?


    Anyone rallying around anything that calls itself "_____ Against _____" during a primary of your own parties candidates are a bunch of lapdogs for one of the other candidates. Bernie and his supporters always act this way.  Since they know they can't get enough people "for" them....start tearing down the threats.  
    Maybe they don't fucking care about the sanctity of the Democratic Party. 
This discussion has been closed.