The Democratic Presidential Debates

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Comments

  • mrussel1 said:
    There's a world of difference between Dem socialism/socialism and communism.  
    Never said there wasn't.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    and Stalin..and Lenin...and Mao...
    Reagan, Thatcher, Bush x 2
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    Never said there wasn't.
    then I don't understand your point.  Your country is also driven by greedy capitalism, since we have the same fundamental economic system.  The only difference is that your government provides more social services, but we are the same economy at the end of the day.  I'm contrasting it to full blown communism.  
  • I think wasn't should be "weren't". But you quoted me before I could change that. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    I think wasn't should be "weren't". But you quoted me before I could change that. 
    distinction without a difference. I'm not the grammar police on a rock band forum.  More interested in the conversation.  
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    ecdanc said:
    Reagan, Thatcher, Bush x 2
    I think you can catch a ship to the east any time.  Make it happen.  Be a man.  
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,810
    mrussel1 said:
    I think you can catch a ship to the east any time.  Make it happen.  Be a man.  
    Kim jong un would welcome you with open arms.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,085
    edited January 2020
    mrussel1 said:
    then I don't understand your point.  Your country is also driven by greedy capitalism, since we have the same fundamental economic system.  The only difference is that your government provides more social services, but we are the same economy at the end of the day.  I'm contrasting it to full blown communism.  
    Greedy vile dictatorships draining a country for the sole reason of the dictator and the elite isn't "full blown communism". It's greedy vile dictatorships misusing a system. 

    Just like fascist Trump is misusing a system for the sole reason of himself and the elite.

    But I am not interested in having a discussion about communism vs capitalism. I doubt there can be anything out there as tired as discussing that. Maybe people claiming No Code is better than Riot Act. But just maybe. 

    I am though zero percent for communism in anyway. Just to make that clear, because i guess some people on here might get that wrong.

    And I am to my knowledge not allowed to discuss Sweden vs the US if I want to keep my posting privileges - so I am not able to go into the differences and what you are wrong and right about concerning that. But it's okey because:

    INT. DAN'S TRUCK - NIGHT

    For the third time, Alice is turning the corner headed
    towards Debbie's driveway.

    ALICE
    Here we are.

    DAN
    Something's wrong here. It feels like...

    EXT. DEBBIE'S HOUSE - NIGHT

    Alice is about to pull in, then BAM, SMASH CUT TO:

    EXT. STREET CORNER - NIGHT

    You guessed it. Dan waits as Alice comes running up.

    ALICE AND DAN
    (simultaneously)
    C'mon, we have to hurry. I'm driving.

    Alice stares at Dan.

    ALICE
    Oh God, I'm still asleep. He's got us
    going in circles.

    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    Greedy vile dictatorships draining a country for the sole reason of the dictator and the elite isn't "full blown communism". It's greedy vile dictatorships misusing a system. 

    Just like fascist Trump is misusing a system for the sole reason of himself and the elite.

    But I am not interested in having a discussion about communism vs capitalism. I doubt there can be anything out there as tired as discussing that. Maybe people claiming No Code is better than Riot Act. But just maybe. 

    And I am to my knowledge not allowed to discuss Sweden vs the US if I want to keep my posting privileges - so I am not able to go into the differences and what you are wrong about concerning that. But it's okey because:

    Communism may be fine on paper, but history has shown that in practice, it is corrupted into violence and oppression against one's own people.  At the end of the day, the leaders of any country will not be peasants.  It's just not human nature.  So you're right.. 'greedy vile dictators', but that's the nature when you consolidate all economic, military and political power into one small group of people/person.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,085
    edited January 2020
    mrussel1 said:
    Communism may be fine on paper, but history has shown that in practice, it is corrupted into violence and oppression against one's own people.  At the end of the day, the leaders of any country will not be peasants.  It's just not human nature.  So you're right.. 'greedy vile dictators', but that's the nature when you consolidate all economic, military and political power into one small group of people/person.  
    I agree. E.g. Trump.

    Luckily you have the firewall of Batman-without-the-suit Adam Schiff. People in history have not been as lucky.

    And Social Democracy is still the best system out there. As shown in practice. So - LETS GO IOWA!
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    Communism may be fine on paper, but history has shown that in practice, it is corrupted into violence and oppression against one's own people.  At the end of the day, the leaders of any country will not be peasants.  It's just not human nature.  So you're right.. 'greedy vile dictators', but that's the nature when you consolidate all economic, military and political power into one small group of people/person.  
    Human nature is a myth. 
  • mcgruff10 said:

    And yes I think Sanders is horrible.  His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house.  I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
    Calling someone wanting to help people, and actually having ideals and a view of a better future "horrible" (and instead voting for someone who doesn't even touch climate change in times like these) is... yeah... 

    But anyways. Where do you get this information about not surviving financially with him as president?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mcgruff10 said:
    Kim jong un would welcome you with open arms.  
    What are y’all doing here arguing about the Democratic candidates? Shouldn’t you have left as soon as Trump was elected?
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    ecdanc said:
    What are y’all doing here arguing about the Democratic candidates? Shouldn’t you have left as soon as Trump was elected?
    Nope, we disagree with the president, not the economic system, the political system or the Constitution.  Just because you lose a game doesn't mean you quit the sport.  
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    Nope, we disagree with the president, not the economic system, the political system or the Constitution.  Just because you lose a game doesn't mean you quit the sport.  
    This president is the apotheosis of your economic system, political system, and constitution. 

  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,645
    Calling someone wanting to help people, and actually having ideals and a view of a better future "horrible" (and instead voting for someone who doesn't even touch climate change in times like these) is... yeah... 

    But anyways. Where do you get this information about not surviving financially with him as president?
    When I did the calculator on Sanders page just for health care, my family would pay an additional $6000/year in taxes.  Yippeeeeee

    Go to hell Bernie...but not just for that.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    When I did the calculator on Sanders page just for health care, my family would pay an additional $6000/year in taxes.  Yippeeeeee

    Go to hell Bernie...but not just for that.  
    In fairness, you would not have to pay your health insurance from work anymore... HOWEVER.... I'm sure much of that funding is coming from additional employment taxes which could have a negative effect on your compensation.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    ecdanc said:
    This president is the apotheosis of your economic system, political system, and constitution. 

    I agree.  I want him gone, that's why I discuss candidates here.  Communism is certainly not the solution for Donald Trump.  He would just make himself dictator for life in that system.  
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,848
    When I did the calculator on Sanders page just for health care, my family would pay an additional $6000/year in taxes.  Yippeeeeee

    Go to hell Bernie...but not just for that.  
    What would you and your family get, though? It isn’t simply a matter of paying more if there is also a benefit obtained. Then one has to weigh the relative value of the costs and benefits. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,645
    mrussel1 said:
    In fairness, you would not have to pay your health insurance from work anymore... HOWEVER.... I'm sure much of that funding is coming from additional employment taxes which could have a negative effect on your compensation.
    That is taking into account what I already pay ;)

    His tax specially costs me >$11k
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,645
    What would you and your family get, though? It isn’t simply a matter of paying more if there is also a benefit obtained. Then one has to weigh the relative value of the costs and benefits. 
    Nothing.  It's all give.  If you are asking me specifically.  And I'm fine with some give for some changes.  But not that.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    That is taking into account what I already pay ;)

    His tax specially costs me >$11k
    Ugh, now I don't want to put my numbers in until it's impeding doom.  
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    ecdanc said:
    Human nature is a myth. 
    Fine, then Communism creates monsters.  Better?
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    When I did the calculator on Sanders page just for health care, my family would pay an additional $6000/year in taxes.  Yippeeeeee

    Go to hell Bernie...but not just for that.  
    So your family makes at LEAST 150,000/year. I prefer expropriation over taxes, but in the meantime, yeah, you should pay more. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    I agree. E.g. Trump.

    Luckily you have the firewall of Batman-without-the-suit Adam Schiff. People in history have not been as lucky.

    And Social Democracy is still the best system out there. As shown in practice. So - LETS GO IOWA!
    Trump does not hold all economic or political power. If he did, he would have shut down Amazon, closed the Post and arrested Jeff Bezos by now.  
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    I agree.  I want him gone, that's why I discuss candidates here.  Communism is certainly not the solution for Donald Trump.  He would just make himself dictator for life in that system.  
    You say communism is not the solution when Trump is the direct and logical result of your system?
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    Fine, then Communism creates monsters.  Better?
    And capitalism creates dead bodies?
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,418
    ecdanc said:
    And capitalism creates dead bodies?
    Communism does a fine job with that too.  
  • mrussel1 said:
    Trump does not hold all economic or political power. If he did, he would have shut down Amazon, closed the Post and arrested Jeff Bezos by now.  
    Exactly. Luckily the Soviet Union had Stalin and not Trump!!
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    edited January 2020
    mrussel1 said:
    Communism does a fine job with that too.  
    Capitalism's got a big lead...
This discussion has been closed.