Donald Trump

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,981
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:

    The union person was fine with it. 


    “This is just what Shell wanted to do and we went along with it,” Ken Broadbent, business manager for Steamfitters Local 449, told the newspaper. He said he wouldn’t “bad rap” the situation.

    “We’re glad to have the jobs. We’re glad to have the project built,” he said. “The president is the president whether we like him or dislike him. We respect him for the title.”

    America
    Everyone involved in that fascist move should fired. Including Trump. I am in a union, and if they tried to pull this, everyone would have shown up with fucking torches and pitchforks. And the Laboir board would have been on the company like a rabid pitbull. The fact that the workers actually felt cowed enough to tolerate this, and that the union rep actually felt like this was an option, definitely does speak volumes about where America is right now, both politically and in terms of workers' rights. Absolutely disgusting. Fascism has arrived in the USA.
    You must be operating under your own special definition of fascism.  As much as I hate Trump, this isn't fascism.  If the plant is closed, why would one be paid for not being onsite? That's part of the union contract. 
    Disgusting take on this.
    This about sums up the depth of your debating skills.  
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,058
    edited August 18
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:

    The union person was fine with it. 


    “This is just what Shell wanted to do and we went along with it,” Ken Broadbent, business manager for Steamfitters Local 449, told the newspaper. He said he wouldn’t “bad rap” the situation.

    “We’re glad to have the jobs. We’re glad to have the project built,” he said. “The president is the president whether we like him or dislike him. We respect him for the title.”

    America
    Everyone involved in that fascist move should fired. Including Trump. I am in a union, and if they tried to pull this, everyone would have shown up with fucking torches and pitchforks. And the Laboir board would have been on the company like a rabid pitbull. The fact that the workers actually felt cowed enough to tolerate this, and that the union rep actually felt like this was an option, definitely does speak volumes about where America is right now, both politically and in terms of workers' rights. Absolutely disgusting. Fascism has arrived in the USA.
    You must be operating under your own special definition of fascism.  As much as I hate Trump, this isn't fascism.  If the plant is closed, why would one be paid for not being onsite? That's part of the union contract. 
    Agreed, this is definitely not fascism but typical union leadership telling the rank and file what to do. If I read the article correctly members who went were paid overtime for attending lol.  “In addition, workers who decided not to listen to the president’s speech reportedly would not be paid overtime rates routinely built in for extra time during the week.“
    I disagree with this take as well.  It's not the union's fault either.  Anyone could have chosen not to come to work and there could be no legal consequences for doing so.  But you don't get paid, because the workers are non-exempt.  And because you have a day unpaid, you will likely not receive OT for the week because you won't be above the number required for OT, since you skipped a day a work.  And why should the worker be paid if he/she didn't come into work and the factory wasn't operating?  If one has a beef, it should be with Shell for shutting the factory down for a day for a political rally.  But again, that's not even in the ball park of being 'fascism'.  
    I misread that the factory was shut down for the day. The way I read it was that if you went you got overtime.  But I still think this is pretty sop for unions, they tell you support a candidate then you do . However any way you look examine the event it is definitely not fascism. 

    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,981
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:

    The union person was fine with it. 


    “This is just what Shell wanted to do and we went along with it,” Ken Broadbent, business manager for Steamfitters Local 449, told the newspaper. He said he wouldn’t “bad rap” the situation.

    “We’re glad to have the jobs. We’re glad to have the project built,” he said. “The president is the president whether we like him or dislike him. We respect him for the title.”

    America
    Everyone involved in that fascist move should fired. Including Trump. I am in a union, and if they tried to pull this, everyone would have shown up with fucking torches and pitchforks. And the Laboir board would have been on the company like a rabid pitbull. The fact that the workers actually felt cowed enough to tolerate this, and that the union rep actually felt like this was an option, definitely does speak volumes about where America is right now, both politically and in terms of workers' rights. Absolutely disgusting. Fascism has arrived in the USA.
    You must be operating under your own special definition of fascism.  As much as I hate Trump, this isn't fascism.  If the plant is closed, why would one be paid for not being onsite? That's part of the union contract. 
    Agreed, this is definitely not fascism but typical union leadership telling the rank and file what to do. If I read the article correctly members who went were paid overtime for attending lol.  “In addition, workers who decided not to listen to the president’s speech reportedly would not be paid overtime rates routinely built in for extra time during the week.“
    I disagree with this take as well.  It's not the union's fault either.  Anyone could have chosen not to come to work and there could be no legal consequences for doing so.  But you don't get paid, because the workers are non-exempt.  And because you have a day unpaid, you will likely not receive OT for the week because you won't be above the number required for OT, since you skipped a day a work.  And why should the worker be paid if he/she didn't come into work and the factory wasn't operating?  If one has a beef, it should be with Shell for shutting the factory down for a day for a political rally.  But again, that's not even in the ball park of being 'fascism'.  
    I misread that the factory was shut down for the day. The way I read it was that if you went you got overtime.  But I still think this is pretty sop for unions, they tell you support a candidate then you do . However any way you look examine the event it is definitely not fascism. 

    It's a good point on the union leaders.  Have they been fascist for 80 years and we never noticed?
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,058
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:

    The union person was fine with it. 


    “This is just what Shell wanted to do and we went along with it,” Ken Broadbent, business manager for Steamfitters Local 449, told the newspaper. He said he wouldn’t “bad rap” the situation.

    “We’re glad to have the jobs. We’re glad to have the project built,” he said. “The president is the president whether we like him or dislike him. We respect him for the title.”

    America
    Everyone involved in that fascist move should fired. Including Trump. I am in a union, and if they tried to pull this, everyone would have shown up with fucking torches and pitchforks. And the Laboir board would have been on the company like a rabid pitbull. The fact that the workers actually felt cowed enough to tolerate this, and that the union rep actually felt like this was an option, definitely does speak volumes about where America is right now, both politically and in terms of workers' rights. Absolutely disgusting. Fascism has arrived in the USA.
    You must be operating under your own special definition of fascism.  As much as I hate Trump, this isn't fascism.  If the plant is closed, why would one be paid for not being onsite? That's part of the union contract. 
    Agreed, this is definitely not fascism but typical union leadership telling the rank and file what to do. If I read the article correctly members who went were paid overtime for attending lol.  “In addition, workers who decided not to listen to the president’s speech reportedly would not be paid overtime rates routinely built in for extra time during the week.“
    I disagree with this take as well.  It's not the union's fault either.  Anyone could have chosen not to come to work and there could be no legal consequences for doing so.  But you don't get paid, because the workers are non-exempt.  And because you have a day unpaid, you will likely not receive OT for the week because you won't be above the number required for OT, since you skipped a day a work.  And why should the worker be paid if he/she didn't come into work and the factory wasn't operating?  If one has a beef, it should be with Shell for shutting the factory down for a day for a political rally.  But again, that's not even in the ball park of being 'fascism'.  
    I misread that the factory was shut down for the day. The way I read it was that if you went you got overtime.  But I still think this is pretty sop for unions, they tell you support a candidate then you do . However any way you look examine the event it is definitely not fascism. 

    It's a good point on the union leaders.  Have they been fascist for 80 years and we never noticed?
    I ve been in a Union almost twenty years and never thought the leaders were fascist. 

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,699

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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:

    The union person was fine with it. 


    “This is just what Shell wanted to do and we went along with it,” Ken Broadbent, business manager for Steamfitters Local 449, told the newspaper. He said he wouldn’t “bad rap” the situation.

    “We’re glad to have the jobs. We’re glad to have the project built,” he said. “The president is the president whether we like him or dislike him. We respect him for the title.”

    America
    Everyone involved in that fascist move should fired. Including Trump. I am in a union, and if they tried to pull this, everyone would have shown up with fucking torches and pitchforks. And the Laboir board would have been on the company like a rabid pitbull. The fact that the workers actually felt cowed enough to tolerate this, and that the union rep actually felt like this was an option, definitely does speak volumes about where America is right now, both politically and in terms of workers' rights. Absolutely disgusting. Fascism has arrived in the USA.
    You must be operating under your own special definition of fascism.  As much as I hate Trump, this isn't fascism.  If the plant is closed, why would one be paid for not being onsite? That's part of the union contract. 
    He's a textbook fascist.

    Those union members would have gotten paid time off if they didn't attend.  The hate rally, being on a Friday, was all about being paid overtime.
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923

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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    Coming out on the side of those loser Proudboys?  The ones the Anti Fascists were so against?  

    That is Fascism.

    fascism

     noun
    fas·​cism | \ ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-  \

    Definition of fascism

    1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    Those hate rallies?

    Fascism.


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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,981
    ikiT said:
    Coming out on the side of those loser Proudboys?  The ones the Anti Fascists were so against?  

    That is Fascism.

    fascism

     noun
    fas·​cism | \ ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-  \

    Definition of fascism

    1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
    The argument is a non sequitur.  I didn't say Trump doesn't have tendencies or even it's a fascist.  I said that situation is not evidence of fascism.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,981
    ikiT said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:

    The union person was fine with it. 


    “This is just what Shell wanted to do and we went along with it,” Ken Broadbent, business manager for Steamfitters Local 449, told the newspaper. He said he wouldn’t “bad rap” the situation.

    “We’re glad to have the jobs. We’re glad to have the project built,” he said. “The president is the president whether we like him or dislike him. We respect him for the title.”

    America
    Everyone involved in that fascist move should fired. Including Trump. I am in a union, and if they tried to pull this, everyone would have shown up with fucking torches and pitchforks. And the Laboir board would have been on the company like a rabid pitbull. The fact that the workers actually felt cowed enough to tolerate this, and that the union rep actually felt like this was an option, definitely does speak volumes about where America is right now, both politically and in terms of workers' rights. Absolutely disgusting. Fascism has arrived in the USA.
    You must be operating under your own special definition of fascism.  As much as I hate Trump, this isn't fascism.  If the plant is closed, why would one be paid for not being onsite? That's part of the union contract. 
    He's a textbook fascist.

    Those union members would have gotten paid time off if they didn't attend.  The hate rally, being on a Friday, was all about being paid overtime.
    You don't get time and a half during weeks you take pto, by law.  It's straight time,  unless you have it negotiated. 
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    I contend the taxpayer funded "rally" is Fascism.


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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    The steamfitters reacted the way many people have.   Powerless to do anything.  It's the danger of fascism.
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    At $38.87 an hour...I hope the $350 dollars they earned by standing around for six hours waiting on him was worth it. 
    Seems like not enough.
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    $350 of OT pay for 6 hours

    PTO $233.22 for 6 hours

    I would have stayed home for the $116.78 difference.

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,981
    ikiT said:
    I contend the taxpayer funded "rally" is Fascism.


    So communists, socialists, and other political philosophies could not have tax payer funded rallies?  What about when Obama would go to Silicon Valley and speak to business groups or employees at someplace like Cisco?  Fascism?  When does a 'speech' become a rally? Trump certainly has authoritarian tendencies and his worst impulses are likely closest to fascism, vs other political philosophies.  But many of those worst impulses have been checked by the courts, by Congress and even by some of his admin (increasingly few).  A fascist dictator would have none of these impulses checked.  

    Hyperbole does not help the case to remove Trump.  He's terrible enough without it.  
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    His "impulses" are never checked.
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    That's the problem.
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    Did you just type what about Obama?
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,981
    ikiT said:
    His "impulses" are never checked.
    He still has to have a budget, as an easy example. Congress still has the purse strings.  Why hasn't he just dissolved Congress?  Many of his EO's are hung up in court battles.  So that's not true.  .
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,435
    mrussel1 said:
    ikiT said:
    I contend the taxpayer funded "rally" is Fascism.


    So communists, socialists, and other political philosophies could not have tax payer funded rallies?  What about when Obama would go to Silicon Valley and speak to business groups or employees at someplace like Cisco?  Fascism?  When does a 'speech' become a rally? Trump certainly has authoritarian tendencies and his worst impulses are likely closest to fascism, vs other political philosophies.  But many of those worst impulses have been checked by the courts, by Congress and even by some of his admin (increasingly few).  A fascist dictator would have none of these impulses checked.  

    Hyperbole does not help the case to remove Trump.  He's terrible enough without it.  
    When Obama gave speeches in Silicon Valley, were the employees told they would not be paid if they did not attend, and that furthermore they were not permitted to protest in any way? 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    edited August 19
    Bad Policies are not impulse.  Flying to the DMZ to meet with KJU is impulsive.  Having no strategy to deal with KJU is bad policy.

    Everything related to Twitter and the hate rallies and the oval office press gatherings and the chopper talks are unchecked impulse.

    Real time and judicial time and legislative time are 3 different things.
    Post edited by ikiT on
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,923
    edited August 19
    Without dipping into hyperbole, he's literally nuts.
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,981
    mrussel1 said:
    ikiT said:
    I contend the taxpayer funded "rally" is Fascism.


    So communists, socialists, and other political philosophies could not have tax payer funded rallies?  What about when Obama would go to Silicon Valley and speak to business groups or employees at someplace like Cisco?  Fascism?  When does a 'speech' become a rally? Trump certainly has authoritarian tendencies and his worst impulses are likely closest to fascism, vs other political philosophies.  But many of those worst impulses have been checked by the courts, by Congress and even by some of his admin (increasingly few).  A fascist dictator would have none of these impulses checked.  

    Hyperbole does not help the case to remove Trump.  He's terrible enough without it.  
    When Obama gave speeches in Silicon Valley, were the employees told they would not be paid if they did not attend, and that furthermore they were not permitted to protest in any way? 
    My guess is the employees Obama talked to were exempt employees, so it's not an accurate comparison.  But for the sake of argument, are you saying the Trump administration instructed the Shell management to to not pay them if they didn't show?  I have not read that the administration made that call and told Shell to go forth.
    Do you pay non-exempt employees when they don't come to work and out of PTO?  I don't.  
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,630
    Got to love supporters of the currently elected president.....


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,218
    lol, when trump finds out the guy he called fat was a trumpster, he called him and left a voice mail. he apparently didn't apologize, but he called him. 

    what a loser. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,287
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:

    The union person was fine with it. 


    “This is just what Shell wanted to do and we went along with it,” Ken Broadbent, business manager for Steamfitters Local 449, told the newspaper. He said he wouldn’t “bad rap” the situation.

    “We’re glad to have the jobs. We’re glad to have the project built,” he said. “The president is the president whether we like him or dislike him. We respect him for the title.”

    America
    Everyone involved in that fascist move should fired. Including Trump. I am in a union, and if they tried to pull this, everyone would have shown up with fucking torches and pitchforks. And the Laboir board would have been on the company like a rabid pitbull. The fact that the workers actually felt cowed enough to tolerate this, and that the union rep actually felt like this was an option, definitely does speak volumes about where America is right now, both politically and in terms of workers' rights. Absolutely disgusting. Fascism has arrived in the USA.
    You must be operating under your own special definition of fascism.  As much as I hate Trump, this isn't fascism.  If the plant is closed, why would one be paid for not being onsite? That's part of the union contract. 
    Disgusting take on this.
    This about sums up the depth of your debating skills.  
    "But my MRI"
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,981
    lol, when trump finds out the guy he called fat was a trumpster, he called him and left a voice mail. he apparently didn't apologize, but he called him. 

    what a loser. 
    The dude was probably honored to be subjected to Trump's ridicule.  
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,408
    mrussel1 said:
    lol, when trump finds out the guy he called fat was a trumpster, he called him and left a voice mail. he apparently didn't apologize, but he called him. 

    what a loser. 
    The dude was probably honored to be subjected to Trump's ridicule.  
    Ahhh yes, the Don Rickles treatment!
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