The Inexcusable Travesty of Mt. Everest

Aunt Becky can get your climbing credentials set up for an Everest permit if the price is right. 

Renfield said:

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

Meltdown99 said:

So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted.  So there must be a way to show proof.  I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles.  I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs.  Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.

Nepal blames amateur climbers and trekking companies for Mount Everest deaths
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/nepal-marks-1st-everest-summit-amid-debate-over-permits

Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.

11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. 

Requirements for Aconcagua:

• Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.

 

• Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.

 

• Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.

 

• Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.

" 11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "

That says a lot, doesn't it?  I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence".  Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die.  But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year?  I very much doubt it.  I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened. 

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

Meltdown99 said:

So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted.  So there must be a way to show proof.  I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles.  I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs.  Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.

Nepal blames amateur climbers and trekking companies for Mount Everest deaths
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/nepal-marks-1st-everest-summit-amid-debate-over-permits

Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.

11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. 

Requirements for Aconcagua:

• Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.

 

• Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.

 

• Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.

 

• Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.

" 11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "

That says a lot, doesn't it?  I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence".  Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die.  But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year?  I very much doubt it.  I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened.  

Nor have there been this many climbers...

 

This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/everest-deaths.amp.html

I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited.  The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent. 

Climbers/mountaineers will often tell you that the easy part is getting to the top. Its  getting back down safely, and alive, that's the hard part.

Bad things happen  on smaller mountains as well.....

1 killed, 2 injured by falling rocks while climbing Mount Rainier
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/1-killed-2-injured-falling-rocks-while-climbing-084400550--abc-news-topstories.html

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

Meltdown99 said:

So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted.  So there must be a way to show proof.  I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles.  I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs.  Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.

Nepal blames amateur climbers and trekking companies for Mount Everest deaths
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/nepal-marks-1st-everest-summit-amid-debate-over-permits

Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.

11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. 

Requirements for Aconcagua:

• Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.

 

• Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.

 

• Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.

 

• Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.

" 11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "

That says a lot, doesn't it?  I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence".  Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die.  But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year?  I very much doubt it.  I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened. 

Nor have there been this many climbers...

 

This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/everest-deaths.amp.html

I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited.  The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent. 

I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.

You do have a good point.  I did read that more and more expedition companies are relocating to the Chinese side since that route is less used because China issues far fewer permits.  But experienced climbers want to be on top of the world...that would be the ultimate.

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

Meltdown99 said:

So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted.  So there must be a way to show proof.  I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles.  I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs.  Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.

Nepal blames amateur climbers and trekking companies for Mount Everest deaths
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/nepal-marks-1st-everest-summit-amid-debate-over-permits

Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.

11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. 

Requirements for Aconcagua:

• Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.

 

• Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.

 

• Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.

 

• Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.

" 11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "

That says a lot, doesn't it?  I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence".  Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die.  But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year?  I very much doubt it.  I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened. 

Nor have there been this many climbers...

 

This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/everest-deaths.amp.html

I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited.  The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent. 

I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.

Every year is different up there.
Whether it's  weather issues
Health issues
Earthquake issues
Etc etc

As I mentioned in an earlier post 2 days before that viral picture was taken 14 people summited and returned to  basecamp safely.
The big issue this year was the small window of good weather opportunity and too many people trying to summit at once. Plus you have the teams that make their summit bid late which means they are in the death zone for way too long and use up too much energy on the way up which leads to the many deaths on the way down.
Generally on Everest you don't  want to leave for the summit later than 1 a.m. and you don't  want to summit past 11 a.m. This year you had many people summiting past 1 and 2 p.m. which means they have been climbing in the death zone for 12 hours or more. Which is way too long for even an experienced climber.
There is a long history of climbers turning around less than a 100 feet from the summit. People working  their whole lives to get to the summit realize that due to time and weather constraints they must turn around or risk death.

I could go into more details but I hope this helps explain somw of what goes on up there.

brianlux said:

Which leads my logical thinking brain to this solution:  Blast off about 450 meters from the top of Everest so that K2 becomes the world's highest mountain.  It would not be nearly as likely to see Disneyland long lines of people trekking up K2 nor as many irresponsible expedition companies trying to do that.  Simple, quick solution.  You're welcome- don't mention it!   

You of all people recommending blowing off the top of a mountain...never would have expected that. /s

One thing is for certain, I'm not climbing Everest or K2...LOL

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

Meltdown99 said:

So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted.  So there must be a way to show proof.  I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles.  I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs.  Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.

Nepal blames amateur climbers and trekking companies for Mount Everest deaths
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/nepal-marks-1st-everest-summit-amid-debate-over-permits

Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.

11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. 

Requirements for Aconcagua:

• Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.

 

• Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.

 

• Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.

 

• Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.

" 11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "

That says a lot, doesn't it?  I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence".  Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die.  But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year?  I very much doubt it.  I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened. 

Nor have there been this many climbers...

 

This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/everest-deaths.amp.html

I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited.  The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent. 

I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.

Oy! I think they do...perhaps because they are are competent.
Instagram post from one of the ‘experienced’ climbers who died. He had already climbed Mont Blanc and Aconcagua. I would say he was competent. It’s towards the end of the article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/everest-deaths.amp.html 

Renfield said:

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

brianlux said:

Renfield said:

Meltdown99 said:

So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted.  So there must be a way to show proof.  I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles.  I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs.  Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.

Nepal blames amateur climbers and trekking companies for Mount Everest deaths
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/nepal-marks-1st-everest-summit-amid-debate-over-permits

Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.

11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. 

Requirements for Aconcagua:

• Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.

 

• Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.

 

• Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.

 

• Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.

" 11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "

That says a lot, doesn't it?  I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence".  Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die.  But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year?  I very much doubt it.  I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened. 

Nor have there been this many climbers...

 

This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/everest-deaths.amp.html

I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited.  The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent. 

I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.

Oy! I think they do...perhaps because they are are competent.
Instagram post from one of the ‘experienced’ climbers who died. He had already climbed Mont Blanc and Aconcagua. I would say he was competent. It’s towards the end of the article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/everest-deaths.amp.html 

Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer. 

However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.

Carol