The Inexcusable Travesty of Mt. Everest

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,299
    hedonist said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't even understand why so many climbers even want to do it at this point. Look at that ridiculous lineup to reach the peak. If I were them, that sight would turn me off of the desire to reach the peak at all. When you see that many people lined up to reach that goal you yourself are waiting to achieve ... I dunno, I feel like that would cause it to lose all meaning, psychologically or emotionally.
    Sounds a lot like what I've heard about PJ merch lines :whistle:
    :lol: 
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  • cp3iversoncp3iverson Posts: 5,441
    edited May 28
    .
    Post edited by cp3iverson on
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 3,775
    Just show people Lukla airport.  Certainly keep me from going.  That and not even wanting to hike 3 stories of steps.





  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,180
    Smellyman said:
    Just show people Lukla airport.  Certainly keep me from going.  That and not even wanting to hike 3 stories of steps.





    Seems like a fine airport...jeesh.  No thanks...
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,524
    Smellyman said:
    Just show people Lukla airport.  Certainly keep me from going.  That and not even wanting to hike 3 stories of steps.





    Seems like a fine airport...jeesh.  No thanks...
    seen videos of worse..
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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,968
    Isn't it a safety issue that people who are not experienced enough are allowed to climb/get permits?
    It is a major safety issue.
    They are often referred to  as "high-altitude tourists"

    I for one would love to make an attempt on Everest.
    I have mountaineering experience,  I do well at high altitude,  I understand the ins and outs, rights and wrongs of mountaineering. But have yet to do anything close to an 8,000er (mountain above 25,000 ft above sea level). I don't  have enough experience to make such an attempt without risking my life and that of others on the mountain. Wish others did the same.
    It is disappointing that all it takes is money to do some of these things that should require prior experience. I would have loved to sky dive from more than 10,000 feet my first time, but the place I went required several jumps to earn the higher dives. I'm sure if I had a lot of money and had gone somewhere else, I could have just paid to do a 20,000+ dive, but I am good with the experience I got.

    On a similar note, when my wife and I hiked up Mt. St. Helens a few years ago, I applied for a permit well in advance because they only issue 100 a day. The day we did it, less than 15 total people hiked it and we barely saw anyone except for a small group at the top ahead of us. It is a superbly clean hike and was a glorious October day. An amazing experience. I would say you probably don't need a whole lot of experience for that hike/mountaineering, but some of the people we saw looked ill prepared. I had done my homework on what to expect, but it was clear some just showed up having never done a hike of that type. Sometimes it's just really annoying having to share these sacred places with people who clearly are doing it as part of a checklist or for bragging rights. They dress incorrectly, play their stupid bluetooth speaker or phone music out loud as they hike and don't pack out what they brought in. They ruin it for everyone else.

    For me, it's like a religious experience. Taking in the fresh air, views and rugged beauty of the terrain that pushes your body to feel alive. The idea of Everest intrigues me, but I would never do it because of the risks and cost. There are several lower altitude peaks that are much more rewarding in my opinion.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,299
    tbergs said:
    Isn't it a safety issue that people who are not experienced enough are allowed to climb/get permits?
    It is a major safety issue.
    They are often referred to  as "high-altitude tourists"

    I for one would love to make an attempt on Everest.
    I have mountaineering experience,  I do well at high altitude,  I understand the ins and outs, rights and wrongs of mountaineering. But have yet to do anything close to an 8,000er (mountain above 25,000 ft above sea level). I don't  have enough experience to make such an attempt without risking my life and that of others on the mountain. Wish others did the same.
    It is disappointing that all it takes is money to do some of these things that should require prior experience. I would have loved to sky dive from more than 10,000 feet my first time, but the place I went required several jumps to earn the higher dives. I'm sure if I had a lot of money and had gone somewhere else, I could have just paid to do a 20,000+ dive, but I am good with the experience I got.

    On a similar note, when my wife and I hiked up Mt. St. Helens a few years ago, I applied for a permit well in advance because they only issue 100 a day. The day we did it, less than 15 total people hiked it and we barely saw anyone except for a small group at the top ahead of us. It is a superbly clean hike and was a glorious October day. An amazing experience. I would say you probably don't need a whole lot of experience for that hike/mountaineering, but some of the people we saw looked ill prepared. I had done my homework on what to expect, but it was clear some just showed up having never done a hike of that type. Sometimes it's just really annoying having to share these sacred places with people who clearly are doing it as part of a checklist or for bragging rights. They dress incorrectly, play their stupid bluetooth speaker or phone music out loud as they hike and don't pack out what they brought in. They ruin it for everyone else.

    For me, it's like a religious experience. Taking in the fresh air, views and rugged beauty of the terrain that pushes your body to feel alive. The idea of Everest intrigues me, but I would never do it because of the risks and cost. There are several lower altitude peaks that are much more rewarding in my opinion.
    Sound like a great experience, T. 

    I feel the same way.  Hiking to the top of Pyramid Peak in the Crystal range of the Sierras, and Round Top were great experiences because even though they aren't as challenging as a lot of climbs, they are much less crowded than many others and doing them with just one or two other people and running into no one else made them a special kind of outing.  But both were about 15 years ago and seeing the number of tourists in the Sierras surge over the last several years, it's getting harder to get away from the hoards so doing them and not running into a lot of other people might be iffy.  Over- population... but that's another subject.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,968
    brianlux said:
    tbergs said:
    Isn't it a safety issue that people who are not experienced enough are allowed to climb/get permits?
    It is a major safety issue.
    They are often referred to  as "high-altitude tourists"

    I for one would love to make an attempt on Everest.
    I have mountaineering experience,  I do well at high altitude,  I understand the ins and outs, rights and wrongs of mountaineering. But have yet to do anything close to an 8,000er (mountain above 25,000 ft above sea level). I don't  have enough experience to make such an attempt without risking my life and that of others on the mountain. Wish others did the same.
    It is disappointing that all it takes is money to do some of these things that should require prior experience. I would have loved to sky dive from more than 10,000 feet my first time, but the place I went required several jumps to earn the higher dives. I'm sure if I had a lot of money and had gone somewhere else, I could have just paid to do a 20,000+ dive, but I am good with the experience I got.

    On a similar note, when my wife and I hiked up Mt. St. Helens a few years ago, I applied for a permit well in advance because they only issue 100 a day. The day we did it, less than 15 total people hiked it and we barely saw anyone except for a small group at the top ahead of us. It is a superbly clean hike and was a glorious October day. An amazing experience. I would say you probably don't need a whole lot of experience for that hike/mountaineering, but some of the people we saw looked ill prepared. I had done my homework on what to expect, but it was clear some just showed up having never done a hike of that type. Sometimes it's just really annoying having to share these sacred places with people who clearly are doing it as part of a checklist or for bragging rights. They dress incorrectly, play their stupid bluetooth speaker or phone music out loud as they hike and don't pack out what they brought in. They ruin it for everyone else.

    For me, it's like a religious experience. Taking in the fresh air, views and rugged beauty of the terrain that pushes your body to feel alive. The idea of Everest intrigues me, but I would never do it because of the risks and cost. There are several lower altitude peaks that are much more rewarding in my opinion.
    Sound like a great experience, T. 

    I feel the same way.  Hiking to the top of Pyramid Peak in the Crystal range of the Sierras, and Round Top were great experiences because even though they aren't as challenging as a lot of climbs, they are much less crowded than many others and doing them with just one or two other people and running into no one else made them a special kind of outing.  But both were about 15 years ago and seeing the number of tourists in the Sierras surge over the last several years, it's getting harder to get away from the hoards so doing them and not running into a lot of other people might be iffy.  Over- population... but that's another subject.
    It was great.

    Definitely a lot of people to compete with for some of these places these days. It's why we mainly take vacations in September or October. You don't have to deal with all the Griswold family vacationers who think it's ok to just walk up to wild elk, moose and bison so they can get a nice selfie. It's why I hate zoos. Yes, I want my kids to enjoy seeing these beautiful creatures, but it's usually also really depressing because of the stupid humans who don't truly appreciate it or respect it.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,381
    Some words from a climber who summitted and survived Everest during this latest climbing window:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/everest-deaths-chris-dare-overcrowding-1.5152476

    It sounds horrific. No way would I ever want to go through that "just to say I did". My climbing/hiking experiences have been along the lines of what tbergs describes, and that's the way I want to keep them. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,180
    mickeyrat said:
    Smellyman said:
    Just show people Lukla airport.  Certainly keep me from going.  That and not even wanting to hike 3 stories of steps.





    Seems like a fine airport...jeesh.  No thanks...
    seen videos of worse..
    I don't disagree...I have never even had a remote interest in visiting Everest...that airport confirms I will never visit.  LOL
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,703
    The movie "Everest" did a really good job of reflecting what it is like to climb that thing.  If you have read Into Thin Air you will find the movie pretty close to what Krakauer  wrote about.  I believe he had a few issues with how the movie portrayed a few things (one being that the Russian guy apparently said that Krakauer wouldn't help him when the storm hit...Krak said he did help but the conditions were so horrible and he was so exhausted from reaching the summit that he was useless)
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,624
    hedonist said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't even understand why so many climbers even want to do it at this point. Look at that ridiculous lineup to reach the peak. If I were them, that sight would turn me off of the desire to reach the peak at all. When you see that many people lined up to reach that goal you yourself are waiting to achieve ... I dunno, I feel like that would cause it to lose all meaning, psychologically or emotionally.
    Sounds a lot like what I've heard about PJ merch lines :whistle:
    Lol! You're right!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,299
    The movie "Everest" did a really good job of reflecting what it is like to climb that thing.  If you have read Into Thin Air you will find the movie pretty close to what Krakauer  wrote about.  I believe he had a few issues with how the movie portrayed a few things (one being that the Russian guy apparently said that Krakauer wouldn't help him when the storm hit...Krak said he did help but the conditions were so horrible and he was so exhausted from reaching the summit that he was useless)
    Yeah, bummer that Krakauer took some flack for that.  He is (or was- maybe not doing it any more?) a great climber but doesn't hold up so well at 8,000 meters.  Not many do- even sometimes with supplemental oxygen  You have to be a bit of a physiological freak like Ed Viesturs who can do 8K meters without supplemental oxygen. 

    Where Krakauer excelled in climbing was the lower yet more technical stuff.  He talks about a lot of that in Eiger Dreams which is actually one of my favorite Krakauer books stories that are thrilling, sometimes scary, sometimes even funny.  Great stuff!
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,027
    hedonist said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't even understand why so many climbers even want to do it at this point. Look at that ridiculous lineup to reach the peak. If I were them, that sight would turn me off of the desire to reach the peak at all. When you see that many people lined up to reach that goal you yourself are waiting to achieve ... I dunno, I feel like that would cause it to lose all meaning, psychologically or emotionally.
    Sounds a lot like what I've heard about PJ merch lines :whistle:
    It always boggles my mind that people will stand in line and miss most of a PJ show for a piece of paper. The last show at Wrigley I went to use the restroom 15 songs in and there was a line of over 100 people. I guarantee if you put a PJ merch tent atop Everest that we would lose at least 20 souls ...
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,703
    Jason P said:
    hedonist said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't even understand why so many climbers even want to do it at this point. Look at that ridiculous lineup to reach the peak. If I were them, that sight would turn me off of the desire to reach the peak at all. When you see that many people lined up to reach that goal you yourself are waiting to achieve ... I dunno, I feel like that would cause it to lose all meaning, psychologically or emotionally.
    Sounds a lot like what I've heard about PJ merch lines :whistle:
    It always boggles my mind that people will stand in line and miss most of a PJ show for a piece of paper. The last show at Wrigley I went to use the restroom 15 songs in and there was a line of over 100 people. I guarantee if you put a PJ merch tent atop Everest that we would lose at least 20 souls ...
    lol....I bet you're right
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,564
    Jason P said:
    hedonist said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't even understand why so many climbers even want to do it at this point. Look at that ridiculous lineup to reach the peak. If I were them, that sight would turn me off of the desire to reach the peak at all. When you see that many people lined up to reach that goal you yourself are waiting to achieve ... I dunno, I feel like that would cause it to lose all meaning, psychologically or emotionally.
    Sounds a lot like what I've heard about PJ merch lines :whistle:
    It always boggles my mind that people will stand in line and miss most of a PJ show for a piece of paper. The last show at Wrigley I went to use the restroom 15 songs in and there was a line of over 100 people. I guarantee if you put a PJ merch tent atop Everest that we would lose at least 20 souls ...
    If their member number is lower than mine I'm good with it
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,299
    Renfield said:
    Gawd aweful!

    I respect life and I wish no one harm or ill will but this kind of thing brings out the most callous feelings in me that way.   The main National Geo article photo there says it all.  In one word: disgusting.  I find it very hard to feel badly about those who perish in such a case as this.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • RenfieldRenfield NYC NYPosts: 439
    edited May 30
    brianlux said:
    Renfield said:
    Gawd aweful!

    I respect life and I wish no one harm or ill will but this kind of thing brings out the most callous feelings in me that way.   The main National Geo article photo there says it all.  In one word: disgusting.  I find it very hard to feel badly about those who perish in such a case as this.
    I understand what you are saying.
    Might change... serious changes/restrictions are needed.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/mount-everest.amp.html
    The commercialization of Mt Everest has been mounting for years. I noticed it from 1996 onward.  Those lines are like the ones I wait in to ride The Incredible Hulk at Universal. Shameful. 
    Post edited by Renfield on
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,180


    Fucking America...now you added a Starbucks on mt everest...is no place on earth safe from your shitty coffee. 
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 13,742

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,624
    edited May 30
    What else are they supposed to do? All of their lives are at risk. That is why Everest climbers have always just gone by the dead. Some have managed to take bodies with them on their way down, but I never heard of a climber who stopped their own climb because of a dead body. Because really, why? The person is dead - nothing anyone can do about that. They're not all about to throw tens of thousands of dollars and a life long dream away, and also, in some case, further risk their own safety, because they stop to mourn over someone's dead body. That makes sense to me that they just keep going - it's not like they are strolling through a park and coming upon a corpse. Now it's a whole other issue if the person is still alive! And yes, people have died up there because climbers didn't stop to help someone in trouble. Now THAT is fucked.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,564
    PJ_Soul said:
    What else are they supposed to do? All of their lives are at risk. That is why Everest climbers have always just gone by the dead. Some have manages to take bodies with them on their way down, but I never heard of a climber who stopped their own climb because of a dead body. Because really, why? The person is dead - nothing anyone can do about that. They're not all about to throw tens of thousands of dollars and a life long dream away, and also, in some case, further risk their own safety, because they stop to mourn over someone's dead body. That makes sense to me that they just keep going - it's not like they are strolling through a park and coming upon a corpse. Now it's a whole other issue if the person is still alive! And yes, people have died up there because climbers didn't stop to help someone in trouble. Now THAT is fucked.
    Nice to see someone gets it
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,180
    I do get.  The gist of the tweet is that greed and ego are more important than human lives.  
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 19,890
    What else are they supposed to do?  Pretty sure this has been sop for years.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,624
    edited May 30
    I do get.  The gist of the tweet is that greed and ego are more important than human lives.  
    I think everyone got what it was trying to say. I just don't think that the tweet is apt at all, for the reasons I already said. The dead person and probably the Nepalese government were the only ones responsible for his death, not the other climbers walking past his body. The dead climber certainly placed his own ego before his own life, and certainly the license fee was more important to Nepal. Those climbers being accused of something in the Tweet didn't do anything wrong IMO... not until they die because of it, anyway, and then they only would have hurt themselves and their families, not anyone else.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,807
    I do get.  The gist of the tweet is that greed and ego are more important than human lives.  
    You mean human bodies. They’re dead. They knew no one would jeopardize their lives to carry their corpse down if they failed at their own “ego-driven” pursuit. 
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,703
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/george-mallory-body

    This was crazy....the people that found Sir Edmund Hillary's body
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
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