So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted. So there must be a way to show proof. I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles. I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs. Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.
Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers.
Requirements for Aconcagua:
Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.
Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.
Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.
Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.
"
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "
That says a lot, doesn't it? I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence". Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die. But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year? I very much doubt it. I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened.
Nor have there been this many climbers...
This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well.
I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited. The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent.
I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.
You do have a good point. I did read that more and more expedition companies are relocating to the Chinese side since that route is less used because China issues far fewer permits. But experienced climbers want to be on top of the world...that would be the ultimate.
I suppose many feel that way but for the most experienced, the bigger goals are the much more difficult climbs like Annapurna and K2.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted. So there must be a way to show proof. I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles. I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs. Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.
Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers.
Requirements for Aconcagua:
Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.
Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.
Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.
Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.
"
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "
That says a lot, doesn't it? I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence". Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die. But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year? I very much doubt it. I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened.
Nor have there been this many climbers...
This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well.
I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited. The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent.
I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.
Every year is different up there. Whether it's weather issues Health issues Earthquake issues Etc etc
As I mentioned in an earlier post 2 days before that viral picture was taken 14 people summited and returned to basecamp safely. The big issue this year was the small window of good weather opportunity and too many people trying to summit at once. Plus you have the teams that make their summit bid late which means they are in the death zone for way too long and use up too much energy on the way up which leads to the many deaths on the way down. Generally on Everest you don't want to leave for the summit later than 1 a.m. and you don't want to summit past 11 a.m. This year you had many people summiting past 1 and 2 p.m. which means they have been climbing in the death zone for 12 hours or more. Which is way too long for even an experienced climber. There is a long history of climbers turning around less than a 100 feet from the summit. People working their whole lives to get to the summit realize that due to time and weather constraints they must turn around or risk death.
I could go into more details but I hope this helps explain somw of what goes on up there.
So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted. So there must be a way to show proof. I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles. I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs. Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.
Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers.
Requirements for Aconcagua:
Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.
Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.
Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.
Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.
"
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "
That says a lot, doesn't it? I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence". Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die. But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year? I very much doubt it. I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened.
Nor have there been this many climbers...
This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well.
I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited. The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent.
I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.
You do have a good point. I did read that more and more expedition companies are relocating to the Chinese side since that route is less used because China issues far fewer permits. But experienced climbers want to be on top of the world...that would be the ultimate.
I suppose many feel that way but for the most experienced, the bigger goals are the much more difficult climbs like Annapurna and K2.
I would say that for the most experienced, they all strive to join the 7 summit club ... so I would venture to say all big mountains they want to climb. I believe the official death toll was 11? Is that really all that high considering what so many people are willing to put their body through...that's a lot of stress on the body.
Give Peas A Chance…
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,709
Which leads my logical thinking brain to this solution: Blast off about 450 meters from the top of Everest so that K2 becomes the world's highest mountain. It would not be nearly as likely to see Disneyland long lines of people trekking up K2 nor as many irresponsible expedition companies trying to do that. Simple, quick solution. You're welcome- don't mention it!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,709
So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted. So there must be a way to show proof. I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles. I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs. Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.
Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers.
Requirements for Aconcagua:
Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.
Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.
Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.
Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.
"
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "
That says a lot, doesn't it? I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence". Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die. But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year? I very much doubt it. I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened.
Nor have there been this many climbers...
This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well.
I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited. The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent.
I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.
You do have a good point. I did read that more and more expedition companies are relocating to the Chinese side since that route is less used because China issues far fewer permits. But experienced climbers want to be on top of the world...that would be the ultimate.
I suppose many feel that way but for the most experienced, the bigger goals are the much more difficult climbs like Annapurna and K2.
I would say that for the most experienced, they all strive to join the 7 summit club ... so I would venture to say all big mountains they want to climb. I believe the official death toll was 11? Is that really all that high considering what so many people are willing to put their body through...that's a lot of stress on the body.
There are climbers capable of doing all the eight thousanders but looking at the photos of those long lines of climbers on Everest, what percentage of them do you suppose are capable of that feat? I'll bet it's a pretty small number!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Which leads my logical thinking brain to this solution: Blast off about 450 meters from the top of Everest so that K2 becomes the world's highest mountain. It would not be nearly as likely to see Disneyland long lines of people trekking up K2 nor as many irresponsible expedition companies trying to do that. Simple, quick solution. You're welcome- don't mention it!
You of all people recommending blowing off the top of a mountain...never would have expected that. /s
One thing is for certain, I'm not climbing Everest or K2...LOL
Give Peas A Chance…
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,709
Which leads my logical thinking brain to this solution: Blast off about 450 meters from the top of Everest so that K2 becomes the world's highest mountain. It would not be nearly as likely to see Disneyland long lines of people trekking up K2 nor as many irresponsible expedition companies trying to do that. Simple, quick solution. You're welcome- don't mention it!
You of all people recommending blowing off the top of a mountain...never would have expected that. /s
One thing is for certain, I'm not climbing Everest or K2...LOL
It's a matter of degrees- blasting to top off that mountain to chase off the hoards seems less sacrilegious to me than those images of egomaniacs lined up like the thermal insulated livestock they appear to be. Besides, I don't think either China or Nepal would take kindly to my idea.
Back to the drawing board.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted. So there must be a way to show proof. I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles. I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs. Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.
Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers.
Requirements for Aconcagua:
Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.
Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.
Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.
Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.
"
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "
That says a lot, doesn't it? I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence". Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die. But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year? I very much doubt it. I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened.
Nor have there been this many climbers...
This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well.
I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited. The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent.
I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.
Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer.
However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.
It was given the name “death zone” for a reason. And we somehow find it astonishing that people are dying in the death zone. Most people tweeting their opinions probably haven’t ever seen a true mountain.
I prefer to to spend my weekends in the happy go lucky zone.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,619
So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted. So there must be a way to show proof. I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles. I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs. Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.
Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers.
Requirements for Aconcagua:
Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.
Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.
Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.
Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.
"
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "
That says a lot, doesn't it? I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence". Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die. But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year? I very much doubt it. I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened.
Nor have there been this many climbers...
This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well.
I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited. The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent.
I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.
Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer.
However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.
Carol
Carol is certified in rat-dodging, if nothing else!
So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted. So there must be a way to show proof. I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles. I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs. Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.
Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers.
Requirements for Aconcagua:
Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.
Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.
Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.
Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.
"
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "
That says a lot, doesn't it? I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence". Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die. But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year? I very much doubt it. I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened.
Nor have there been this many climbers...
This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well.
I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited. The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent.
I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.
Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer.
However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.
Carol
Carol is certified in rat-dodging, if nothing else!
OMG! Dying of laughter here!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,709
So in this article, it states that climbers are vetted. So there must be a way to show proof. I know I read online that some mountains require proof...just not sure if its the guide companies or the permit issuers...and of course the article I cannot find and with all the news on Everest there are plenty of articles. I think maybe they need to vet better for Everest climbs. Far too many inexperienced climbers on the mountain.
Expedition operators said they do vet climbers’ experience and ability before signing up them up and that even seasoned mountaineers sometimes lose their lives on Everest.
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers.
Requirements for Aconcagua:
Climbers must submit a document detailing previous winter ascents they have made, which proves they have relevant experience and sufficient knowledge to attempt the climb.
Climbers must submit an affidavit to the Administration where they assume all responsibility for the risks of the expedition, releasing from responsibility the Mendoza Government and all relevant institutions.
Climbers must submit a list of the specific technical equipment they will be using for a winter ascent.
Climbers must show a valid insurance policy to the Administration which guarantees cover in case of a rescue or evacuation or for emergency medical care.
"
11 deaths on Everest this year and they were believed to be experienced trekkers. "
That says a lot, doesn't it? I think this illustrates the difference between "experience" and "competence". Yes, some experienced climbers are going to die. But would 11 competent high altitude climbers die on one mountain in one year? I very much doubt it. I can't say this for sure, but I don't believe that has ever happened.
Nor have there been this many climbers...
This article highlights those that died. I think they were all competent, some had attained the goal of being in the 7 Summit Club. The article does not discern any difference between experience & competence, using only the word experienced to mean competent as well.
I believe the descent is the most deadly and most of the 11 died after they summited. The toll already taken on the body is well past anything the human body can normally withstand, add in the ‘traffic jams’ that add more time in the Death Zone, where your body shuts down and you essentially begin to die. That extra exposure has to be a contributing factor here for those who were experienced/competent.
I guess my point is I don't believe a competent climber would join that circus train of fools.
Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer.
However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.
Carol
Brian it is, Carol.
I know a heck of a lot of competent climbers have summitted Everest and their stories are often interesting but usually the best of those stories are by those (like Ed Viesture and Reinhold Messner) who did it without supplemental oxygen. And maybe that would be the best solution. You want to go? No bottled O!
Navigating the streets of NYC? Yes, that is an accomplishment!
And now it time once again to acknowledge that great feat of climbing, Climbing the North Face of Uxbridge Road (which kind of combines the high peak summits with you experience, Carol):
Twenty two years after the publication of John Krakauer's Into Thin Air, the telling of the several death on Mt. Everest due, at least in part, to overcrowding on the mountain, Everest is still plagued by lines of Disneyland like tourism. This is a travesty! The death toll on Everest this month so far is now 10.
Twenty two years after the publication of John Krakauer's Into Thin Air, the telling of the several death on Mt. Everest due, at least in part, to overcrowding on the mountain, Everest is still plagued by lines of Disneyland like tourism. This is a travesty! The death toll on Everest this month so far is now 10.
I got altitude sickness on the last mile climbing Pikes Peak in CO and it suuuuuucks! I know it is really no comparison to the extremes of Everest, but I cannot imagine the terror of being stuck in a line like that and having it sink in. I’ll take my “low” oxygen on Colorado’s 14ers and leave the “hardly any oxygen” Everest to the rich idiots trying to find a way to die.
Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer.
However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.
Carol
Brian it is, Carol.
I know a heck of a lot of competent climbers have summitted Everest and their stories are often interesting but usually the best of those stories are by those (like Ed Viesture and Reinhold Messner) who did it without supplemental oxygen. And maybe that would be the best solution. You want to go? No bottled O!
Navigating the streets of NYC? Yes, that is an accomplishment!
And now it time once again to acknowledge that great feat of climbing, Climbing the North Face of Uxbridge Road (which kind of combines the high peak summits with you experience, Carol):
Brian-that video is f’in hysterical! And imagine doing that every day in heels!
No oxygen for anyone? Not even competent mountaineers? Even Edmund Hillary used oxygen.
Only a little over 200 climbers have summited without oxygen, with around 4,800 who have summited. Yes, that would drastically reduce the amateurs, and of course the lines!
But then the true climbers would be penalized. I think I’m more in favor of new strident rules/restrictions and to double or triple the cost of the expedition (instead of 45K-100K per person, how about 100K-300K).
I know of Viesturs & Messner- have not read their stories. Is there something in particular you would recommend to read?
Did you watch Everest: Beyond the Limit? I watched all 3 seasons- I wonder if it was totally unscripted?
Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer.
However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.
Carol
Brian it is, Carol.
I know a heck of a lot of competent climbers have summitted Everest and their stories are often interesting but usually the best of those stories are by those (like Ed Viesture and Reinhold Messner) who did it without supplemental oxygen. And maybe that would be the best solution. You want to go? No bottled O!
Navigating the streets of NYC? Yes, that is an accomplishment!
And now it time once again to acknowledge that great feat of climbing, Climbing the North Face of Uxbridge Road (which kind of combines the high peak summits with you experience, Carol):
Brian-that video is f’in hysterical! And imagine doing that every day in heels!
No oxygen for anyone? Not even competent mountaineers? Even Edmund Hillary used oxygen.
Only a little over 200 climbers have summited without oxygen, with around 4,800 who have summited. Yes, that would drastically reduce the amateurs, and of course the lines!
But then the true climbers would be penalized. I think I’m more in favor of new strident rules/restrictions and to double or triple the cost of the expedition (instead of 45K-100K per person, how about 100K-300K).
I know of Viesturs & Messner- have not read their stories. Is there something in particular you would recommend to read?
Did you watch Everest: Beyond the Limit? I watched all 3 seasons- I wonder if it was totally unscripted?
Isn't it, Carol?! I laugh myself sick every time I see it! Love the doing it heels idea, haha!
Yeah, the no-O thing is highly debatable. And yes, even Hillary, even Krakauer (whom I greatly admire) used Oxygen. I never gave it much thought until I read in one of Ed Viesturs books (I'm pretty sure it was in his fine book, No Shortcuts to the Top) where he talks in almost spiritual terms about the relationship of the climber to the mountain in making the climb on one's own strength. When I read that, I began to see all other assisted attempts as much more vain. And I see this kind of mountaineering activity as something that really is best represented by those few men and women who possess the true capability to make such an ascent as an 8,000 plus meter mountain under their own strength. It kind of becomes a metaphor for what we mere mortals might do in our own lives. The idea of taking no shortcuts to our goals is very attractive to me.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer.
However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.
Carol
Brian it is, Carol.
I know a heck of a lot of competent climbers have summitted Everest and their stories are often interesting but usually the best of those stories are by those (like Ed Viesture and Reinhold Messner) who did it without supplemental oxygen. And maybe that would be the best solution. You want to go? No bottled O!
Navigating the streets of NYC? Yes, that is an accomplishment!
And now it time once again to acknowledge that great feat of climbing, Climbing the North Face of Uxbridge Road (which kind of combines the high peak summits with you experience, Carol):
Brian-that video is f’in hysterical! And imagine doing that every day in heels!
No oxygen for anyone? Not even competent mountaineers? Even Edmund Hillary used oxygen.
Only a little over 200 climbers have summited without oxygen, with around 4,800 who have summited. Yes, that would drastically reduce the amateurs, and of course the lines!
But then the true climbers would be penalized. I think I’m more in favor of new strident rules/restrictions and to double or triple the cost of the expedition (instead of 45K-100K per person, how about 100K-300K).
I know of Viesturs & Messner- have not read their stories. Is there something in particular you would recommend to read?
Did you watch Everest: Beyond the Limit? I watched all 3 seasons- I wonder if it was totally unscripted?
Isn't it, Carol?! I laugh myself sick every time I see it! Love the doing it heels idea, haha!
Yeah, the no-O thing is highly debatable. And yes, even Hillary, even Krakauer (whom I greatly admire) used Oxygen. I never gave it much thought until I read in one of Ed Viesturs books (I'm pretty sure it was in his fine book, No Shortcuts to the Top) where he talks in almost spiritual terms about the relationship of the climber to the mountain in making the climb on one's own strength. When I read that, I began to see all other assisted attempts as much more vain. And I see this kind of mountaineering activity as something that really is best represented by those few men and women who possess the true capability to make such an ascent as an 8,000 plus meter mountain under their own strength. It kind of becomes a metaphor for what we mere mortals might do in our own lives. The idea of taking no shortcuts to our goals is very attractive to me.
...spiritually, no shortcuts....I understand the metaphor. And that leads to a larger philosophical discussion about ourselves.
Lots of thoughts and questions swirling around in my head...
I imagine it is the true adventurers that become one with mountain, not all being elite climbers.
The hordes of amateur climbers in the ‘Walmart checkout lines’ to and from Mt Everest’s summit are certainly not doing this for spiritual reasons. So I remove them from the pack.
Messner is a beast-I cannot comprehend all the adventures that he has successfully accomplished, truly an outlier.
So if one has the technical skills, is physically and emotionally capable but needs oxygen above 8,000 meters, are they cheating? I guess from a purist standpoint that will be a yes. I don’t yet see it that way.
Perhaps I need to gain more knowledge of mountaineering, the history of and learn more about the great adventurers before I can form a quasi intelligent opinion.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,709
Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer.
However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.
Carol
Brian it is, Carol.
I know a heck of a lot of competent climbers have summitted Everest and their stories are often interesting but usually the best of those stories are by those (like Ed Viesture and Reinhold Messner) who did it without supplemental oxygen. And maybe that would be the best solution. You want to go? No bottled O!
Navigating the streets of NYC? Yes, that is an accomplishment!
And now it time once again to acknowledge that great feat of climbing, Climbing the North Face of Uxbridge Road (which kind of combines the high peak summits with you experience, Carol):
Brian-that video is f’in hysterical! And imagine doing that every day in heels!
No oxygen for anyone? Not even competent mountaineers? Even Edmund Hillary used oxygen.
Only a little over 200 climbers have summited without oxygen, with around 4,800 who have summited. Yes, that would drastically reduce the amateurs, and of course the lines!
But then the true climbers would be penalized. I think I’m more in favor of new strident rules/restrictions and to double or triple the cost of the expedition (instead of 45K-100K per person, how about 100K-300K).
I know of Viesturs & Messner- have not read their stories. Is there something in particular you would recommend to read?
Did you watch Everest: Beyond the Limit? I watched all 3 seasons- I wonder if it was totally unscripted?
Isn't it, Carol?! I laugh myself sick every time I see it! Love the doing it heels idea, haha!
Yeah, the no-O thing is highly debatable. And yes, even Hillary, even Krakauer (whom I greatly admire) used Oxygen. I never gave it much thought until I read in one of Ed Viesturs books (I'm pretty sure it was in his fine book, No Shortcuts to the Top) where he talks in almost spiritual terms about the relationship of the climber to the mountain in making the climb on one's own strength. When I read that, I began to see all other assisted attempts as much more vain. And I see this kind of mountaineering activity as something that really is best represented by those few men and women who possess the true capability to make such an ascent as an 8,000 plus meter mountain under their own strength. It kind of becomes a metaphor for what we mere mortals might do in our own lives. The idea of taking no shortcuts to our goals is very attractive to me.
...spiritually, no shortcuts....I understand the metaphor. And that leads to a larger philosophical discussion about ourselves.
Lots of thoughts and questions swirling around in my head...
I imagine it is the true adventurers that become one with mountain, not all being elite climbers.
The hordes of climbers in the ‘Walmart checkout lines’ to and from Mt Everest’s summit are certainly not doing this for spiritual reasons. So I remove them from the pack.
Messner is a beast-I cannot comprehend all the adventures that he has successfully accomplished, truly an outlier.
So if one has the technical skills, is physically and emotionally capable but needs oxygen above 8,000 meters, are they cheating? I guess from a purist standpoint that will be a yes. I don’t yet see it that way.
Perhaps I need to gain more knowledge of mountaineering, the history of and learn more about the great adventurers before I can form a quasi intelligent opinion.
"I imagine it is the true adventurers that become one with mountain, not all being elite climbers."
"Messner is a beast-I cannot comprehend all the adventures that he has successfully accomplished, truly an outlier."
Merssner's a great example of being one with the mountain. He has been literally a few times- going solo where few women or men have gone before. I would love to get the chance to see him speak some time!
Yeah, I think the purists would say using oxygen is cheating although I don't see someone like Viestures or Anker or Jimmy Chin openly putting anyone down. More likely to encourage the idea of going O-free and leading by example. Messner, I'm not so sure. I picture him as being a little more matter-of-fact. Not sure. What do you think?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Not arguing with you Brian (assuming that is your first name)... trying to make sense of it all, but I’m not a climber/mountaineer.
However, I’m an expert ‘trekker’ … I have navigated the streets of New York City daily for the last 25 years, in heels as well as flats. I’d say I have experience as well as competence🤣 ...Just trying to add a bit of levity to a very somber situation/discussion.
Carol
Brian it is, Carol.
I know a heck of a lot of competent climbers have summitted Everest and their stories are often interesting but usually the best of those stories are by those (like Ed Viesture and Reinhold Messner) who did it without supplemental oxygen. And maybe that would be the best solution. You want to go? No bottled O!
Navigating the streets of NYC? Yes, that is an accomplishment!
And now it time once again to acknowledge that great feat of climbing, Climbing the North Face of Uxbridge Road (which kind of combines the high peak summits with you experience, Carol):
Brian-that video is f’in hysterical! And imagine doing that every day in heels!
No oxygen for anyone? Not even competent mountaineers? Even Edmund Hillary used oxygen.
Only a little over 200 climbers have summited without oxygen, with around 4,800 who have summited. Yes, that would drastically reduce the amateurs, and of course the lines!
But then the true climbers would be penalized. I think I’m more in favor of new strident rules/restrictions and to double or triple the cost of the expedition (instead of 45K-100K per person, how about 100K-300K).
I know of Viesturs & Messner- have not read their stories. Is there something in particular you would recommend to read?
Did you watch Everest: Beyond the Limit? I watched all 3 seasons- I wonder if it was totally unscripted?
Isn't it, Carol?! I laugh myself sick every time I see it! Love the doing it heels idea, haha!
Yeah, the no-O thing is highly debatable. And yes, even Hillary, even Krakauer (whom I greatly admire) used Oxygen. I never gave it much thought until I read in one of Ed Viesturs books (I'm pretty sure it was in his fine book, No Shortcuts to the Top) where he talks in almost spiritual terms about the relationship of the climber to the mountain in making the climb on one's own strength. When I read that, I began to see all other assisted attempts as much more vain. And I see this kind of mountaineering activity as something that really is best represented by those few men and women who possess the true capability to make such an ascent as an 8,000 plus meter mountain under their own strength. It kind of becomes a metaphor for what we mere mortals might do in our own lives. The idea of taking no shortcuts to our goals is very attractive to me.
...spiritually, no shortcuts....I understand the metaphor. And that leads to a larger philosophical discussion about ourselves.
Lots of thoughts and questions swirling around in my head...
I imagine it is the true adventurers that become one with mountain, not all being elite climbers.
The hordes of climbers in the ‘Walmart checkout lines’ to and from Mt Everest’s summit are certainly not doing this for spiritual reasons. So I remove them from the pack.
Messner is a beast-I cannot comprehend all the adventures that he has successfully accomplished, truly an outlier.
So if one has the technical skills, is physically and emotionally capable but needs oxygen above 8,000 meters, are they cheating? I guess from a purist standpoint that will be a yes. I don’t yet see it that way.
Perhaps I need to gain more knowledge of mountaineering, the history of and learn more about the great adventurers before I can form a quasi intelligent opinion.
"I imagine it is the true adventurers that become one with mountain, not all being elite climbers."
"Messner is a beast-I cannot comprehend all the adventures that he has successfully accomplished, truly an outlier."
Merssner's a great example of being one with the mountain. He has been literally a few times- going solo where few women or men have gone before. I would love to get the chance to see him speak some time!
Yeah, I think the purists would say using oxygen is cheating although I don't see someone like Viestures or Anker or Jimmy Chin openly putting anyone down. More likely to encourage the idea of going O-free and leading by example. Messner, I'm not so sure. I picture him as being a little more matter-of-fact. Not sure. What do you think?
I know very little about Viesturs, a tad more about Messner, totally unfamiliar with Chin and Anker ☺️ Messner would definitely be matter of fact, probably a bit gruff (perhaps arrogant) based on what I’ve read about him thus far.
I think my summer reading has been decided, I will read up on these great adventurers. By end of summer I’ll be able to have a proper discussion with you. Where to begin tho’🤔
As an aside, may I share my MP clip that I laugh myself silly over each and every time I watch it. And there’s no just watching it one time, it’s over & over & over and I never tire of it. It’s not about climbing though...
I know very little about Viesturs, a tad more about Messner, totally unfamiliar with Chin and Anker ☺️ Messner would definitely be matter of fact, probably a bit gruff (perhaps arrogant) based on what I’ve read about him thus far.
I think my summer reading has been decided, I will read up on these great adventurers. By end of summer I’ll be able to have a proper discussion with you. Where to begin tho’🤔
As an aside, may I share my MP clip that I laugh myself silly over each and every time I watch it. And there’s no just watching it one time, it’s over & over & over and I never tire of it. It’s not about climbing though...
There is SO much great mountaineering literature and some great films. Probably a good place to start unless you've already read it is Jon Krakauer's Into Thin Air, and I also really enjoyed his lesser know excellent Eiger Dreams. Viesturs' No Short Cuts to the Top is excellent both for the climbing stories and the great way he gives a lot of credit to his wife for being a real trooper. Maurice Herzog's Annapurna is one of the great classics of mountaineering literature and an amazing story about a feat carried out in 1950 using the much more basic climbing technology of the day- the fist summit of a mountain over 8,000 meters. And it's one of the most difficult climbs of all the tallest mountains.
Some good movies too- Meru is AMAZING and David Brashiers' IMAX film Everest is great too- Viesturs is in it as is Araceli Seggara, the first Spanish woman to summit Everest and she is awesome in the film.
Will look forward to hearing about what you discover!
Also would love more reviews/recommendations from others on favorite mountaineering books.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I know very little about Viesturs, a tad more about Messner, totally unfamiliar with Chin and Anker ☺️ Messner would definitely be matter of fact, probably a bit gruff (perhaps arrogant) based on what I’ve read about him thus far.
I think my summer reading has been decided, I will read up on these great adventurers. By end of summer I’ll be able to have a proper discussion with you. Where to begin tho’🤔
As an aside, may I share my MP clip that I laugh myself silly over each and every time I watch it. And there’s no just watching it one time, it’s over & over & over and I never tire of it. It’s not about climbing though...
There is SO much great mountaineering literature and some great films. Probably a good place to start unless you've already read it is Jon Krakauer's Into Thin Air, and I also really enjoyed his lesser know excellent Eiger Dreams. Viesturs' No Short Cuts to the Top is excellent both for the climbing stories and the great way he gives a lot of credit to his wife for being a real trooper. Maurice Herzog's Annapurna is one of the great classics of mountaineering literature and an amazing story about a feat carried out in 1950 using the much more basic climbing technology of the day- the fist summit of a mountain over 8,000 meters. And it's one of the most difficult climbs of all the tallest mountains.
Some good movies too- Meru is AMAZING and David Brashiers' IMAX film Everest is great too- Viesturs is in it as is Araceli Seggara, the first Spanish woman to summit Everest and she is awesome in the film.
Will look forward to hearing about what you discover!
Also would love more reviews/recommendations from others on favorite mountaineering books.
I read IntoThin Air, saw Everest, unsure if I read Eiger Dreams. Will decide between No Short Cuts to the Top or Annapurna.
I’ll report back in at a later date. Thanks Brian!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,709
I know very little about Viesturs, a tad more about Messner, totally unfamiliar with Chin and Anker ☺️ Messner would definitely be matter of fact, probably a bit gruff (perhaps arrogant) based on what I’ve read about him thus far.
I think my summer reading has been decided, I will read up on these great adventurers. By end of summer I’ll be able to have a proper discussion with you. Where to begin tho’🤔
As an aside, may I share my MP clip that I laugh myself silly over each and every time I watch it. And there’s no just watching it one time, it’s over & over & over and I never tire of it. It’s not about climbing though...
There is SO much great mountaineering literature and some great films. Probably a good place to start unless you've already read it is Jon Krakauer's Into Thin Air, and I also really enjoyed his lesser know excellent Eiger Dreams. Viesturs' No Short Cuts to the Top is excellent both for the climbing stories and the great way he gives a lot of credit to his wife for being a real trooper. Maurice Herzog's Annapurna is one of the great classics of mountaineering literature and an amazing story about a feat carried out in 1950 using the much more basic climbing technology of the day- the fist summit of a mountain over 8,000 meters. And it's one of the most difficult climbs of all the tallest mountains.
Some good movies too- Meru is AMAZING and David Brashiers' IMAX film Everest is great too- Viesturs is in it as is Araceli Seggara, the first Spanish woman to summit Everest and she is awesome in the film.
Will look forward to hearing about what you discover!
Also would love more reviews/recommendations from others on favorite mountaineering books.
I read IntoThin Air, saw Everest, unsure if I read Eiger Dreams. Will decide between No Short Cuts to the Top or Annapurna.
I’ll report back in at a later date. Thanks Brian!
Great! Look forward to hearing how you like whichever one you chose, Carol!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Twenty two years after the publication of John Krakauer's Into Thin Air, the telling of the several death on Mt. Everest due, at least in part, to overcrowding on the mountain, Everest is still plagued by lines of Disneyland like tourism. This is a travesty! The death toll on Everest this month so far is now 10.
reading IN THIN AIR years ago cured me of any delusion i might have had about climbing everest. i believe my exact words were, fuck that shit. i decided base camp would be just fine. earlier this year my eldest child did make it to base camp. she said it was the hardest thing shed ever done. at one stage she just wanted to stop, but despite not being able to suck in enough air, she continued, pushing herself past her limit.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,709
Twenty two years after the publication of John Krakauer's Into Thin Air, the telling of the several death on Mt. Everest due, at least in part, to overcrowding on the mountain, Everest is still plagued by lines of Disneyland like tourism. This is a travesty! The death toll on Everest this month so far is now 10.
reading IN THIN AIR years ago cured me of any delusion i might have had about climbing everest. i believe my exact words were, fuck that shit. i decided base camp would be just fine. earlier this year my eldest child did make it to base camp. she said it was the hardest thing shed ever done. at one stage she just wanted to stop, but despite not being able to suck in enough air, she continued, pushing herself past her limit.
That's fantastic! Good for her!
Yeah, I know I couldn't do it. I don't have the right kind of lungs and ability to metabolize oxygen for altitudes that high up. I envy those who can but I'm happy to have done some lower climbing and lots of hiking. But not lately- I'm not in great shape these days, lol.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I don't even like hiking, let alone climbing. A nice walk is pleasant. And I like to paddle places if the opportunity presents itself. I have done many very challenging hikes in my day, despite never enjoying it... Now I avoid it altogether, because I finally learned my lesson, lol.
Meanwhile, my dad was a very accomplished mountaineer in his day. He climbed both the Eiger and the Matterhorn, among many others. He actually got trapped in a terrible blizzard on the face of the Matterhorn, and had to just huddle on a little ledge for 3 days. He did get frost bite on his face, which turned his entire eyebrow white for life, and he actually thought he was going to die up there while trapped, but after the storm ended, he kept climbing and reached the peak. Pretty amazing. Of course Mount Everest is far, far higher. My dad never had to worry about not being able to breathe.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Whether it's weather issues
Health issues
Earthquake issues
Etc etc
As I mentioned in an earlier post 2 days before that viral picture was taken 14 people summited and returned to basecamp safely.
The big issue this year was the small window of good weather opportunity and too many people trying to summit at once. Plus you have the teams that make their summit bid late which means they are in the death zone for way too long and use up too much energy on the way up which leads to the many deaths on the way down.
Generally on Everest you don't want to leave for the summit later than 1 a.m. and you don't want to summit past 11 a.m. This year you had many people summiting past 1 and 2 p.m. which means they have been climbing in the death zone for 12 hours or more. Which is way too long for even an experienced climber.
There is a long history of climbers turning around less than a 100 feet from the summit. People working their whole lives to get to the summit realize that due to time and weather constraints they must turn around or risk death.
I could go into more details but I hope this helps explain somw of what goes on up there.
One thing is for certain, I'm not climbing Everest or K2...LOL
Instagram post from one of the ‘experienced’ climbers who died. He had already climbed Mont Blanc and Aconcagua. I would say he was competent. It’s towards the end of the article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/everest-deaths.amp.html
I prefer to to spend my weekends in the happy go lucky zone.
That is a lot of wealthy people!
Brian-that video is f’in hysterical! And imagine doing that every day in heels!
No oxygen for anyone? Not even competent mountaineers? Even Edmund Hillary used oxygen.
Only a little over 200 climbers have summited without oxygen, with around 4,800 who have summited. Yes, that would drastically reduce the amateurs, and of course the lines!
But then the true climbers would be penalized. I think I’m more in favor of new strident rules/restrictions and to double or triple the cost of the expedition (instead of 45K-100K per person, how about 100K-300K).
I know of Viesturs & Messner- have not read their stories. Is there something in particular you would recommend to read?
Did you watch Everest: Beyond the Limit? I watched all 3 seasons- I wonder if it was totally unscripted?
Perhaps I need to gain more knowledge of mountaineering, the history of and learn more about the great adventurers before I can form a quasi intelligent opinion.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/world/asia/mount-everest.html “Might change” 🙄
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say