Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez
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Because you made it sound like, “well there’s no point in the US doing anything because our jobs will just go to China and until they change, we can’t.” That’s why TTP and Paris Climate Accords are important but Team Trump Treason doesn’t give a rats ass about climate change. Hell, he still thinks it’s just the weather. The US was in a position to lead but instead digs coal.mace1229 said:
All I said was if we want to make a real difference we have to get China on board too. Where did you get me suggesting we should't lead from that?Halifax2TheMax said:
Since when did the US fail to lead because of what other countries do? Oh yea, since Team Trump Treason took office.mace1229 said:
What is your point?Halifax2TheMax said:
Whataboutism strikes again.mace1229 said:Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
You dont think that is worth bringing up? You don;t think tightening up our own policies is going to drive more business across the sea where it is cheaper and ultimately worse the for environment? Because any plan that doesn't aknowledge that isn't really about change, it is about votes then. Because you are solving nothing.
If you'd like to be part of the conversation then please add something to it, these off remarks really don't do anything.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Agreed. The mind set around TPP was very upsetting to me. We handed the economic future of SE Asia to China.Halifax2TheMax said:
Because you made it sound like, “well there’s no point in the US doing anything because our jobs will just go to China and until they change, we can’t.” That’s why TTP and Paris Climate Accords are important but Team Trump Treason doesn’t give a rats ass about climate change. Hell, he still thinks it’s just the weather. The US was in a position to lead but instead digs coal.mace1229 said:
All I said was if we want to make a real difference we have to get China on board too. Where did you get me suggesting we should't lead from that?Halifax2TheMax said:
Since when did the US fail to lead because of what other countries do? Oh yea, since Team Trump Treason took office.mace1229 said:
What is your point?Halifax2TheMax said:
Whataboutism strikes again.mace1229 said:Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
You dont think that is worth bringing up? You don;t think tightening up our own policies is going to drive more business across the sea where it is cheaper and ultimately worse the for environment? Because any plan that doesn't aknowledge that isn't really about change, it is about votes then. Because you are solving nothing.
If you'd like to be part of the conversation then please add something to it, these off remarks really don't do anything.0 -
You keep writing everything off like this, often. You're doing yourself a disservice when you do this IMHO. Stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater and you'll have a more balanced perspective I think, and a more open mind to ideas. So you think 11 years is unreasonable. Fine. So consider what she says with a longer, more gradual timeline and see how it feels, right? And then you can consider other points that you like more, and consider yet others in a slightly different way that you favour more.Meltdown99 said:
Some of it. As soon as someone claims we can eliminate fossil fuels in 11 years, I tend to write them off, even more so from over paid politicians.tempo_n_groove said:
So you haven't read it then...Meltdown99 said:
Have fun walking when she does away with fossil fuels by 2030. Or be prepared to take a small mortgage out for an electric car. Or you could just stay at home and be one of the unwilling to work and get free money...so all will good.tempo_n_groove said:Has anyone actually read the Green Proposal yet?!?
Thoughts on it?
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They are also getting labor laws causing many businesses to move to places like Viet Nam. Always need to find the next country to exploit.oftenreading said:China is making major changes in its own environmental issues, and has the money to drive it. Yes, their environmental record has been terrible, but now they are investing in better technologies at what seems to be a much better rate than the US.
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Meltdown99 said:
I agree. What annoys is when people will say China is leading the world in green energy, where is the proof? The information is coming straight from the Chinese government. China is a problem domestically and internationally. In Canada, we are in a tiff with them because we arrested an Hawuiiexecutivee for extradiction to the States. To say China is pissed is an understatement. No one has the answer for China.mace1229 said:
True, but why so many on the left pretends they aren't a problem I will never understand. It isn't a deflection, its a fact. They contribute far more pollution than anyone else and we are losing most of our manufacturing to them because they can manufacture so cheap by ignoring the policies of other countries.Meltdown99 said:
And when you get China on board, China will say they are on board ... but you will have no way to prove they are. Every bit of info is state-controlled...and I absolutely do not trust China.mace1229 said:Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
And on top of that we are so in debt to them that we couldn't just stop trade. I'm not saying I have a solution, just acknowledging there is a problem.
According to news Chinese companies have to use their technology to spy if the government say they do.You realize many Americans and Canadians work in China and obviously tons of companies do to? My wife's included and she has toured a ton of factories there and know what they are talking about regarding China. It isn't a completely closed off society like North Korea where all we know is what China tells us.Their environmental and labor laws are getting better daily. Still far far behind, but companies are making an exodus as it becomes more expensive.On to the next country so we can exploit the environment and people so we can buy stuff!0 -
“Only what China tells us.”Meltdown99 said:
I agree. What annoys is when people will say China is leading the world in green energy, where is the proof? The information is coming straight from the Chinese government. China is a problem domestically and internationally. In Canada, we are in a tiff with them because we arrested an Hawuiiexecutivee for extradiction to the States. To say China is pissed is an understatement. No one has the answer for China.mace1229 said:
True, but why so many on the left pretends they aren't a problem I will never understand. It isn't a deflection, its a fact. They contribute far more pollution than anyone else and we are losing most of our manufacturing to them because they can manufacture so cheap by ignoring the policies of other countries.Meltdown99 said:
And when you get China on board, China will say they are on board ... but you will have no way to prove they are. Every bit of info is state-controlled...and I absolutely do not trust China.mace1229 said:Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
And on top of that we are so in debt to them that we couldn't just stop trade. I'm not saying I have a solution, just acknowledging there is a problem.
According to news Chinese companies have to use their technology to spy if the government say they do.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2018/04/30/solar-and-china-dominate-clean-energy-investment-in-first-quarter/
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You guys are free to trust China all you want. They are one shady country and when they don't get their own way they kidnap Canadians...sounds like a country we should be doing business with Fuck China...they are a bunch of jackasses.Give Peas A Chance…0
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It doesn't matter to me what she says, fossil fuels will be used on earth long after most of us are gone...PJ_Soul said:
You keep writing everything off like this, often. You're doing yourself a disservice when you do this IMHO. Stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater and you'll have a more balanced perspective I think, and a more open mind to ideas. So you think 11 years is unreasonable. Fine. So consider what she says with a longer, more gradual timeline and see how it feels, right? And then you can consider other points that you like more, and consider yet others in a slightly different way that you favour more.Meltdown99 said:
Some of it. As soon as someone claims we can eliminate fossil fuels in 11 years, I tend to write them off, even more so from over paid politicians.tempo_n_groove said:
So you haven't read it then...Meltdown99 said:
Have fun walking when she does away with fossil fuels by 2030. Or be prepared to take a small mortgage out for an electric car. Or you could just stay at home and be one of the unwilling to work and get free money...so all will good.tempo_n_groove said:Has anyone actually read the Green Proposal yet?!?
Thoughts on it?
And electric cars at this moment are not even close to feasible for masses unless the government subsidizes them, and even in Ontario where they were subsidized, they were not exactly selling many.Give Peas A Chance…0 -
Unless you actually read what she's proposing (or at least understand what she's proposing in full, however you choose to ingest that), I don't think it should matter to anyone here what you say on the topic. You're not qualified to say one way or another on the feasibility of a plan you haven't read through.Meltdown99 said:
It doesn't matter to me what she says, fossil fuels will be used on earth long after most of us are gone...PJ_Soul said:
You keep writing everything off like this, often. You're doing yourself a disservice when you do this IMHO. Stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater and you'll have a more balanced perspective I think, and a more open mind to ideas. So you think 11 years is unreasonable. Fine. So consider what she says with a longer, more gradual timeline and see how it feels, right? And then you can consider other points that you like more, and consider yet others in a slightly different way that you favour more.Meltdown99 said:
Some of it. As soon as someone claims we can eliminate fossil fuels in 11 years, I tend to write them off, even more so from over paid politicians.tempo_n_groove said:
So you haven't read it then...Meltdown99 said:
Have fun walking when she does away with fossil fuels by 2030. Or be prepared to take a small mortgage out for an electric car. Or you could just stay at home and be one of the unwilling to work and get free money...so all will good.tempo_n_groove said:Has anyone actually read the Green Proposal yet?!?
Thoughts on it?
And electric cars at this moment are not even close to feasible for masses unless the government subsidizes them, and even in Ontario where they were subsidized, they were not exactly selling many.
As for the "feasible for the masses", if you accept that there is demand for electric vehicles, save for the concerns on battery life and the concerns on price, then I think the pivot will happen, because auto manufacturers will follow the money, and R & D is how modern companies develop their competitive edges. To me it seems likely that there will come a time when it's cheaper for the government to subsidize electric vehicles heavily than to not, due to the fact that we're consuming a non-renewable resource far more than we can afford to.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
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So she was happy chasing 25000 thousand jobs away...nice.Give Peas A Chance…0
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it's really stupid.Meltdown99 said:So she was happy chasing 25000 thousand jobs away...nice.
In a Siena poll released:
- 58% of NYC voters approved of Amazon coming in
- 53% of union households
- 70% of blacks and 80% of Latinos approve
- Only 51% of whites approved
But great job AOC. You really had another big win, just like your coup d'etat on Pelosi.
https://www.scribd.com/document/399492096/Amazon-Cross-Tabs
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I thought the people were opposed. More likely AOC made a big stink, and never really knew what the people wanted.mrussel1 said:
it's really stupid.Meltdown99 said:So she was happy chasing 25000 thousand jobs away...nice.
In a Siena poll released:
- 58% of NYC voters approved of Amazon coming in
- 53% of union households
- 70% of blacks and 80% of Latinos approve
- Only 51% of whites approved
But great job AOC. You really had another big win, just like your coup d'etat on Pelosi.
https://www.scribd.com/document/399492096/Amazon-Cross-Tabs
I get at how people are upset about subsidies and not paying their fair share, but 25 000 jobs. 10 years ago, Ontario and the federal government bailed out GM to the tune of 10 billion, and GM claimed that the 10B over the last decade contributed 108b to the Canadian economy, no new jobs were part of the agreement. So over-all the economic impact would have been a huge boost. This is 25 000 jobs that presumably are long-term jobs.
Their loss will surely be someone else's gain.Give Peas A Chance…0 -
I think AOC's beef with Amazon related more to NYC giving them millions to locate there.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
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It is, but it generates millions in tax dollars, both corporate and income taxes that far outweighs that cost. I don't know the structure in NYC, but in VA (where I live), it will take the state less than 3 years to overcome the tax incentives they gave Amazon. And that's just me calculating the state income tax, not even taking into consideration the business tax or the ancillary economic activity.Gern Blansten said:I think AOC's beef with Amazon related more to NYC giving them millions to locate there.
I"m sorry, it is just utterly foolish.0 -
Right she didn't care about any other data. She saw a number and either didnt understand or didnt care about the rest of it.Gern Blansten said:I think AOC's beef with Amazon related more to NYC giving them millions to locate there.hippiemom = goodness0 -
The really foolish thing is saying that the incentives used to lure Amazon can now be used as funding. In that regard she and Trump are very alike ... making unfounded proclamation to appease your fringe base. Maybe that is why our attention gravitate towards them.Be Excellent To Each OtherParty On, Dudes!0
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Yeah I forgot about that statement. Truly clueless...Jason P said:The really foolish thing is saying that the incentives used to lure Amazon can now be used as funding. In that regard she and Trump are very alike ... making unfounded proclamation to appease your fringe base. Maybe that is why our attention gravitate towards them.0 -
So these office workers are going to be given bottles to piss in?
So these jobs averaging 150k will have those folks on food stamps?Give Peas A Chance…0 -
Doubling down on stupid.Meltdown99 said:
So these office workers are going to be given bottles to piss in?
So these jobs averaging 150k will have those folks on food stamps?0 -
That is the only thing I can think of. If workers in their warehouse are improperly treated, address that ... chasing that many jobs away is just stupid ...mrussel1 said:
Doubling down on stupid.Meltdown99 said:
So these office workers are going to be given bottles to piss in?
So these jobs averaging 150k will have those folks on food stamps?Give Peas A Chance…0
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