Donald Trump
Comments
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Sure it's wrong for business owners to break the laws, but I don't think the workers should suffer for it, illegal or otherwise, and right now, that's what's happening. x1000. It's terrible what ICE is doing to illegal immigrant workers right now - it's fascist in nature.LongestRoad said:
But isn't it wrong, and shouldn't American businesses that use illegal immigrants and undercut businesses using legal citizens, putting them out of business be held accountable? If you are willing to hire an illegal immigrant, they should be getting paid the same as a legal citizen but they're obviously not, that's why they hire them. Not out of the goodness of their heart but to increase their profits and steal from companies that are following the law. The only ones winning in that situation are the greedy business owners. It happens a lot more than you realize.PJ_Soul said:
Of course - I'm sure many, many, many people are against illegal immigration and against Trump... I mean really, who is PRO illegal immigration?? Anyone?? If so, I have no clue who they are!Ledbetterman10 said:PJ_Soul said:
Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.Ledbetterman10 said:Go Beavers said:I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?
Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.
And PC stands for political correctness.
As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.
Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.
And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.
No, I'm not confusing illegal immigrants and refugees, and I believe that actual facts prove that illegal immigrants contribute hugely to the American economy, given that something in the realm of 11 million of them are workers in the American workforce (in jobs that legal Americans don't want to do), and each one of them at least pay taxes on all their taxable purchases. I'm not suggesting that problems aren't also created by illegal immigration... but I find that the economic contribution factor is often underestimated because of generalized anger over the issue.
Really you're pointing out a ton of problems that have nothing to do with illegal immigrants. America has an economy where thriving businesses are not obligated to distribute the profits in a way that is anywhere near equitable. This practice is in fact EMBRACED by America in a rare way, to the point where businesses don't even blink when they decide to hire workers who will work for an outrageously small amount of money. And that includes Trump himself. If America's business culture was more equitable and gave workers the credit they deserve, then I don't think there would be so many of them turning to illegal workers so casually.
What you also have to look at is WHY there are so many jobs for these illegal immigrants. Jobs that really do need to be filled for American consumerism to keep running full tilt. You can easily say that business owners shouldn't be hiring these folks, but if they didn't they wouldn't be able to fill the jobs, which causes obvious problems right down the line.
I disagree that it's only greedy business owners who are winning though. American consumers are winning from all this too. Some of the products you buy and the services you use will get more expensive if illegal immigrants are removed from the equation... hell, just getting some of those products or services at all would likely become a real challenge in a lot of cases.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
The housing construction, agriculture and meat processing industries, as well as hospitality, janitorial, housekeeping and restaurant businesses (Team Trump Teason wanted to hire 62) would suffer immensely if you went, "poof," no more illegals. I'd be for tougher enforcement against business owners that hire illegals as well as stream lined and improved processes for hiring temporary, guest or seasonal emolyees.LongestRoad said:
But isn't it wrong, and shouldn't American businesses that use illegal immigrants and undercut businesses using legal citizens, putting them out of business be held accountable? If you are willing to hire an illegal immigrant, they should be getting paid the same as a legal citizen but they're obviously not, that's why they hire them. Not out of the goodness of their heart but to increase their profits and steal from companies that are following the law. The only ones winning in that situation are the greedy business owners. It happens a lot more than you realize.PJ_Soul said:
Of course - I'm sure many, many, many people are against illegal immigration and against Trump... I mean really, who is PRO illegal immigration?? Anyone?? If so, I have no clue who they are!Ledbetterman10 said:PJ_Soul said:
Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.Ledbetterman10 said:Go Beavers said:I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?
Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.
And PC stands for political correctness.
As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.
Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.
And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.
No, I'm not confusing illegal immigrants and refugees, and I believe that actual facts prove that illegal immigrants contribute hugely to the American economy, given that something in the realm of 11 million of them are workers in the American workforce (in jobs that legal Americans don't want to do), and each one of them at least pay taxes on all their taxable purchases. I'm not suggesting that problems aren't also created by illegal immigration... but I find that the economic contribution factor is often underestimated because of generalized anger over the issue.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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Very busy right now but leaving this hereBS44325 said:
About the same...which means in a month his poll numbers will probably be up.vaggar99 said:TODAY!? Worse than Charlottesville for Trump?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-public-gives-trump-thumbs-down-russia-thumbs-n893266
His approval rating is up a point since the “disaster” that was Helsinki.
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Funny that supporters are linking nbc, which I thought was fake news all this time. It went up 2 points. In Gallup’s, it stayed at 42 and disapproval went up 1. What matters most is how unappealing trump is to independents and that will factor in significantly during the election.BS44325 said:
Very busy right now but leaving this hereBS44325 said:
About the same...which means in a month his poll numbers will probably be up.vaggar99 said:TODAY!? Worse than Charlottesville for Trump?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-public-gives-trump-thumbs-down-russia-thumbs-n893266
His approval rating is up a point since the “disaster” that was Helsinki.
And to add, the polling was halfway done prior to his news conference with his master.0 -
You may want to consider that even though Americans think the economy is good he has an approval rating of 45%. Historically low. Not really much good news for your boy.BS44325 said:
Very busy right now but leaving this hereBS44325 said:
About the same...which means in a month his poll numbers will probably be up.vaggar99 said:TODAY!? Worse than Charlottesville for Trump?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-public-gives-trump-thumbs-down-russia-thumbs-n893266
His approval rating is up a point since the “disaster” that was Helsinki.0 -
Propaganda. Too busy running off agitprop on the one handled mimeograph machine?BS44325 said:
Very busy right now but leaving this hereBS44325 said:
About the same...which means in a month his poll numbers will probably be up.vaggar99 said:TODAY!? Worse than Charlottesville for Trump?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-public-gives-trump-thumbs-down-russia-thumbs-n893266
His approval rating is up a point since the “disaster” that was Helsinki.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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So then what happens next? Legal citizens are out of work. This is why it has to stop. Trump shouldn't be getting alien workers without proving that he attempted to pay a fair wage and still couldn't fill the positions before being allowed to hire them. Don't blame border patrol for doing their jobs either. That is one of the most dangerous jobs. They're protecting us and protecting people from being killed or being trafficked. We can't open the borders. No one else does either.PJ_Soul said:
Sure it's wrong for business owners to break the laws, but I don't think the workers should suffer for it, illegal or otherwise, and right now, that's what's happening. x1000. It's terrible what ICE is doing to illegal immigrant workers right now - it's fascist in nature.LongestRoad said:
But isn't it wrong, and shouldn't American businesses that use illegal immigrants and undercut businesses using legal citizens, putting them out of business be held accountable? If you are willing to hire an illegal immigrant, they should be getting paid the same as a legal citizen but they're obviously not, that's why they hire them. Not out of the goodness of their heart but to increase their profits and steal from companies that are following the law. The only ones winning in that situation are the greedy business owners. It happens a lot more than you realize.PJ_Soul said:
Of course - I'm sure many, many, many people are against illegal immigration and against Trump... I mean really, who is PRO illegal immigration?? Anyone?? If so, I have no clue who they are!Ledbetterman10 said:PJ_Soul said:
Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.Ledbetterman10 said:Go Beavers said:I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?
Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.
And PC stands for political correctness.
As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.
Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.
And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.
No, I'm not confusing illegal immigrants and refugees, and I believe that actual facts prove that illegal immigrants contribute hugely to the American economy, given that something in the realm of 11 million of them are workers in the American workforce (in jobs that legal Americans don't want to do), and each one of them at least pay taxes on all their taxable purchases. I'm not suggesting that problems aren't also created by illegal immigration... but I find that the economic contribution factor is often underestimated because of generalized anger over the issue.
Really you're pointing out a ton of problems that have nothing to do with illegal immigrants. America has an economy where thriving businesses are not obligated to distribute the profits in a way that is anywhere near equitable. This practice is in fact EMBRACED by America in a rare way, to the point where businesses don't even blink when they decide to hire workers who will work for an outrageously small amount of money. And that includes Trump himself. If America's business culture was more equitable and gave workers the credit they deserve, then I don't think there would be so many of them turning to illegal workers so casually.
What you also have to look at is WHY there are so many jobs for these illegal immigrants. Jobs that really do need to be filled for American consumerism to keep running full tilt. You can easily say that business owners shouldn't be hiring these folks, but if they didn't they wouldn't be able to fill the jobs, which causes obvious problems right down the line.
I disagree that it's only greedy business owners who are winning though. American consumers are winning from all this too. Some of the products you buy and the services you use will get more expensive if illegal immigrants are removed from the equation... hell, just getting some of those products or services at all would likely become a real challenge in a lot of cases.0 -
I agree. They should have to pay a fair wage and attempt to hire citizens first.Halifax2TheMax said:
The housing construction, agriculture and meat processing industries, as well as hospitality, janitorial, housekeeping and restaurant businesses (Team Trump Teason wanted to hire 62) would suffer immensely if you went, "poof," no more illegals. I'd be for tougher enforcement against business owners that hire illegals as well as stream lined and improved processes for hiring temporary, guest or seasonal emolyees.LongestRoad said:
But isn't it wrong, and shouldn't American businesses that use illegal immigrants and undercut businesses using legal citizens, putting them out of business be held accountable? If you are willing to hire an illegal immigrant, they should be getting paid the same as a legal citizen but they're obviously not, that's why they hire them. Not out of the goodness of their heart but to increase their profits and steal from companies that are following the law. The only ones winning in that situation are the greedy business owners. It happens a lot more than you realize.PJ_Soul said:
Of course - I'm sure many, many, many people are against illegal immigration and against Trump... I mean really, who is PRO illegal immigration?? Anyone?? If so, I have no clue who they are!Ledbetterman10 said:PJ_Soul said:
Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.Ledbetterman10 said:Go Beavers said:I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?
Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.
And PC stands for political correctness.
As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.
Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.
And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.
No, I'm not confusing illegal immigrants and refugees, and I believe that actual facts prove that illegal immigrants contribute hugely to the American economy, given that something in the realm of 11 million of them are workers in the American workforce (in jobs that legal Americans don't want to do), and each one of them at least pay taxes on all their taxable purchases. I'm not suggesting that problems aren't also created by illegal immigration... but I find that the economic contribution factor is often underestimated because of generalized anger over the issue.0 -
What happens next? What do you mean? After what? Why would legal citizens be out of work?LongestRoad said:
So then what happens next? Legal citizens are out of work. This is why it has to stop. Trump shouldn't be getting alien workers without proving that he attempted to pay a fair wage and still couldn't fill the positions before being allowed to hire them. Don't blame border patrol for doing their jobs either. That is one of the most dangerous jobs. They're protecting us and protecting people from being killed or being trafficked. We can't open the borders. No one else does either.PJ_Soul said:
Sure it's wrong for business owners to break the laws, but I don't think the workers should suffer for it, illegal or otherwise, and right now, that's what's happening. x1000. It's terrible what ICE is doing to illegal immigrant workers right now - it's fascist in nature.LongestRoad said:
But isn't it wrong, and shouldn't American businesses that use illegal immigrants and undercut businesses using legal citizens, putting them out of business be held accountable? If you are willing to hire an illegal immigrant, they should be getting paid the same as a legal citizen but they're obviously not, that's why they hire them. Not out of the goodness of their heart but to increase their profits and steal from companies that are following the law. The only ones winning in that situation are the greedy business owners. It happens a lot more than you realize.PJ_Soul said:
Of course - I'm sure many, many, many people are against illegal immigration and against Trump... I mean really, who is PRO illegal immigration?? Anyone?? If so, I have no clue who they are!Ledbetterman10 said:PJ_Soul said:
Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.Ledbetterman10 said:Go Beavers said:I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?
Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.
And PC stands for political correctness.
As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.
Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.
And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.
No, I'm not confusing illegal immigrants and refugees, and I believe that actual facts prove that illegal immigrants contribute hugely to the American economy, given that something in the realm of 11 million of them are workers in the American workforce (in jobs that legal Americans don't want to do), and each one of them at least pay taxes on all their taxable purchases. I'm not suggesting that problems aren't also created by illegal immigration... but I find that the economic contribution factor is often underestimated because of generalized anger over the issue.
Really you're pointing out a ton of problems that have nothing to do with illegal immigrants. America has an economy where thriving businesses are not obligated to distribute the profits in a way that is anywhere near equitable. This practice is in fact EMBRACED by America in a rare way, to the point where businesses don't even blink when they decide to hire workers who will work for an outrageously small amount of money. And that includes Trump himself. If America's business culture was more equitable and gave workers the credit they deserve, then I don't think there would be so many of them turning to illegal workers so casually.
What you also have to look at is WHY there are so many jobs for these illegal immigrants. Jobs that really do need to be filled for American consumerism to keep running full tilt. You can easily say that business owners shouldn't be hiring these folks, but if they didn't they wouldn't be able to fill the jobs, which causes obvious problems right down the line.
I disagree that it's only greedy business owners who are winning though. American consumers are winning from all this too. Some of the products you buy and the services you use will get more expensive if illegal immigrants are removed from the equation... hell, just getting some of those products or services at all would likely become a real challenge in a lot of cases.
I respect border guards and their jobs in general, and also know that plenty of them abuse their power, and I will absolutely blame those who do. But who in the world is calling for an open border??? You keep talking about open borders, but nobody is advocating for one.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
But are you willing to pay substantially more for those products and services?LongestRoad said:
I agree. They should have to pay a fair wage and attempt to hire citizens first.Halifax2TheMax said:
The housing construction, agriculture and meat processing industries, as well as hospitality, janitorial, housekeeping and restaurant businesses (Team Trump Teason wanted to hire 62) would suffer immensely if you went, "poof," no more illegals. I'd be for tougher enforcement against business owners that hire illegals as well as stream lined and improved processes for hiring temporary, guest or seasonal emolyees.LongestRoad said:
But isn't it wrong, and shouldn't American businesses that use illegal immigrants and undercut businesses using legal citizens, putting them out of business be held accountable? If you are willing to hire an illegal immigrant, they should be getting paid the same as a legal citizen but they're obviously not, that's why they hire them. Not out of the goodness of their heart but to increase their profits and steal from companies that are following the law. The only ones winning in that situation are the greedy business owners. It happens a lot more than you realize.PJ_Soul said:
Of course - I'm sure many, many, many people are against illegal immigration and against Trump... I mean really, who is PRO illegal immigration?? Anyone?? If so, I have no clue who they are!Ledbetterman10 said:PJ_Soul said:
Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.Ledbetterman10 said:Go Beavers said:I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?
Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.
And PC stands for political correctness.
As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.
Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.
And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.
No, I'm not confusing illegal immigrants and refugees, and I believe that actual facts prove that illegal immigrants contribute hugely to the American economy, given that something in the realm of 11 million of them are workers in the American workforce (in jobs that legal Americans don't want to do), and each one of them at least pay taxes on all their taxable purchases. I'm not suggesting that problems aren't also created by illegal immigration... but I find that the economic contribution factor is often underestimated because of generalized anger over the issue.
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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CommieLongestRoad said:
I agree. They should have to pay a fair wage and attempt to hire citizens first.Halifax2TheMax said:
The housing construction, agriculture and meat processing industries, as well as hospitality, janitorial, housekeeping and restaurant businesses (Team Trump Teason wanted to hire 62) would suffer immensely if you went, "poof," no more illegals. I'd be for tougher enforcement against business owners that hire illegals as well as stream lined and improved processes for hiring temporary, guest or seasonal emolyees.LongestRoad said:
But isn't it wrong, and shouldn't American businesses that use illegal immigrants and undercut businesses using legal citizens, putting them out of business be held accountable? If you are willing to hire an illegal immigrant, they should be getting paid the same as a legal citizen but they're obviously not, that's why they hire them. Not out of the goodness of their heart but to increase their profits and steal from companies that are following the law. The only ones winning in that situation are the greedy business owners. It happens a lot more than you realize.PJ_Soul said:
Of course - I'm sure many, many, many people are against illegal immigration and against Trump... I mean really, who is PRO illegal immigration?? Anyone?? If so, I have no clue who they are!Ledbetterman10 said:PJ_Soul said:
Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.Ledbetterman10 said:Go Beavers said:I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?
Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.
And PC stands for political correctness.
As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.
Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.
And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.
No, I'm not confusing illegal immigrants and refugees, and I believe that actual facts prove that illegal immigrants contribute hugely to the American economy, given that something in the realm of 11 million of them are workers in the American workforce (in jobs that legal Americans don't want to do), and each one of them at least pay taxes on all their taxable purchases. I'm not suggesting that problems aren't also created by illegal immigration... but I find that the economic contribution factor is often underestimated because of generalized anger over the issue.0 -
Yea, but you know, the disappearing headlines and brilliant brilliance that is the brilliancy of Team Trump Treason will result in significant repube gains in the midterms, cementing Team Trump Treason’s Landslide re-election. Of course.
Donald Trump is actually a very unpopular president - Vox https://apple.news/AJ1j67mdfTKScmkxxEtb-FA
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I miss igotid880 -
igotid88 said:
He's so fraudulent.
It's pathetic really. And the base couldn't give a shit. He's despicable on so many levels... and it doesn't matter.
I've said it before: the 'heartland' plays a deciding role in his victory. They are supposed to be the 'grit' of America. They are supposed to have the blue collar values such as honour, integrity, truthfulness, and work ethic.
This guy has none of these. What a shameful compromise."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
I love when middle class white people think undocumented immigrants are ruining their life and standard of living
Meanwhile CEO's take home 1000x what they were 40 years ago, while paying a fraction of the taxes they did 40 years ago
Wake up America0 -
my2hands said:I love when middle class white people think undocumented immigrants are ruining their life and standard of living
Meanwhile CEO's take home 1000x what they were 40 years ago, while paying a fraction of the taxes they did 40 years ago
Wake up America
Yup.
Know your enemy."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
0 -
BS44325 said:
Very busy right now but leaving this hereBS44325 said:
About the same...which means in a month his poll numbers will probably be up.vaggar99 said:TODAY!? Worse than Charlottesville for Trump?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-public-gives-trump-thumbs-down-russia-thumbs-n893266
His approval rating is up a point since the “disaster” that was Helsinki.
The average is actually down .3%....but by all means, please continue to cherry pick polls that you feel further your narrative.https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo
Post edited by The Juggler onwww.myspace.com0 -
Narrative? Delusions of grandeur.The Juggler said:BS44325 said:
Very busy right now but leaving this hereBS44325 said:
About the same...which means in a month his poll numbers will probably be up.vaggar99 said:TODAY!? Worse than Charlottesville for Trump?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-public-gives-trump-thumbs-down-russia-thumbs-n893266
His approval rating is up a point since the “disaster” that was Helsinki.
The average is actually down .3%....but by all means, please continue to cherry pick polls that you feel further your narrative.https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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