Donald Trump

Ledbetterman10

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

I don’t know about always, and aside of your cynicism, I see dems push for wrapping up things for people who qualify under the dreamers act.

I know pc stands for political correctness, I’m asking what exactly ‘pc culture’ is.   

I'd describe it as putting too much stock into political correctness or attempting to censor people that say things that might offend someone. Season 19 of South Park would give a better explanation than I could...when they introduced "PC Principal."

This is simply not something done by a whole big group of people with particular politics, and is just as common among those who are conservative as it is among those considered liberal. At the end of the day, "PC Culture" is carried out across the political spectrum by "morons". All the reasonably intelligent people understand how to distinguish between and navigate through stupid bullshit, offensive garbage, empathy, being decent, and rationality. The "PC culture" argument against "liberals" is just another propaganda tool being utilized by conservatives, and apparently it's working real well.

Well I guess that's why the conservatives are winning more elections lately.

cincybearcat

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

I agree as I am for a better immigration policy AND not for just giving people already here a free pass AND against Trump.

As per illegal immigrants contribution to the economy:

"Undocumented immigrants Contribution to Economy

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."

Now - I do wonder what their "take" is....how much they use.  Cause 8% seems pretty darn low based on what I'm paying

Ledbetterman10

cincybearcat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

I agree as I am for a better immigration policy AND not for just giving people already here a free pass AND against Trump.

As per illegal immigrants contribution to the economy:

"Undocumented immigrants Contribution to Economy

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."

Now - I do wonder what their "take" is....how much they use.  Cause 8% seems pretty darn low based on what I'm paying

Well that's pretty interesting I must admit. But still, like you said, there shouldn't be free passes. But nor should there be a "big beautiful wall with a door that people can come through legally."

Halifax2TheMax

cincybearcat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

I agree as I am for a better immigration policy AND not for just giving people already here a free pass AND against Trump.

As per illegal immigrants contribution to the economy:

"Undocumented immigrants Contribution to Economy

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."

Now - I do wonder what their "take" is....how much they use.  Cause 8% seems pretty darn low based on what I'm paying

Are you including their contrinutions to social security for which they'll never collect or be given credit for? If they're being paid "on the books?"

igotid88

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Speaking of fake news. Have you guys seen those WalkAway ads? Using stock photos of people claiming to be former dems who now support Trump

1) There's actually a lot of videos on YouTube and most of them seem pretty genuine.

2) They're not all necessarily former dems who now support Trump. I'm a prime example. I left the democratic party a year ago (well before this Walk Away hashtag) out of hatred for liberalism, but I certainly didn't embrace Trump or any of his lunacy.

this post is fake news

Not sure why you'd say that other than to be a troll. But here are some of the videos I'm referencing....so they're not all memes with stock photos. And I totally got a voter registration and switched from democrat to independent so that's not fake either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdj1smZZwLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbP33yl_kT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTx_MKi6tlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOjcQnizz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NS7wXmNPgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvjetQ2I5A

same reason republicans say something is fake news

Ledbetterman10

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Speaking of fake news. Have you guys seen those WalkAway ads? Using stock photos of people claiming to be former dems who now support Trump

1) There's actually a lot of videos on YouTube and most of them seem pretty genuine.

2) They're not all necessarily former dems who now support Trump. I'm a prime example. I left the democratic party a year ago (well before this Walk Away hashtag) out of hatred for liberalism, but I certainly didn't embrace Trump or any of his lunacy.

this post is fake news

Not sure why you'd say that other than to be a troll. But here are some of the videos I'm referencing....so they're not all memes with stock photos. And I totally got a voter registration and switched from democrat to independent so that's not fake either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdj1smZZwLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbP33yl_kT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTx_MKi6tlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOjcQnizz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NS7wXmNPgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvjetQ2I5A

same reason republicans say something is fake news

To sound idiotic? Cause that's how they sound when they say it. Trump in particular.

cincybearcat

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

I agree as I am for a better immigration policy AND not for just giving people already here a free pass AND against Trump.

As per illegal immigrants contribution to the economy:

"Undocumented immigrants Contribution to Economy

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."

Now - I do wonder what their "take" is....how much they use.  Cause 8% seems pretty darn low based on what I'm paying

Are you including their contrinutions to social security for which they'll never collect or be given credit for? If they're being paid "on the books?"

Hmmmm....I don;t know.  I was just assuming that this study was comprehensive. Maybe not.  I'll have to check.

The Juggler

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Speaking of fake news. Have you guys seen those WalkAway ads? Using stock photos of people claiming to be former dems who now support Trump

1) There's actually a lot of videos on YouTube and most of them seem pretty genuine.

2) They're not all necessarily former dems who now support Trump. I'm a prime example. I left the democratic party a year ago (well before this Walk Away hashtag) out of hatred for liberalism, but I certainly didn't embrace Trump or any of his lunacy.

this post is fake news

Not sure why you'd say that other than to be a troll. But here are some of the videos I'm referencing....so they're not all memes with stock photos. And I totally got a voter registration and switched from democrat to independent so that's not fake either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdj1smZZwLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbP33yl_kT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTx_MKi6tlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOjcQnizz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NS7wXmNPgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvjetQ2I5A

same reason republicans say something is fake news

To sound idiotic? Cause that's how they sound when they say it. Trump in particular.

I hate the "fake news" phrase as much as the next guy but there is no evidence that this thing is a "movement" despite being able to find some videos on youtube. But there is evidence that this is something Russia, with the help of their bots, is trying to make bigger than it actually is to further divide Democrats and help Republicans for the midterms.

 https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opinions/russian-bots-2018-midterm-elections-opinion-love/index.html

PJ_Soul

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

Of course - I'm sure many, many, many people are against illegal immigration and against Trump... I mean really, who is PRO illegal immigration?? Anyone?? If so, I have no clue who they are!
No, I'm not confusing illegal immigrants and refugees, and I believe that actual facts prove that illegal immigrants contribute hugely to the American economy, given that something in the realm of 11 million of them are workers in the American workforce (in jobs that legal Americans don't want to do), and each one of them at least pay taxes on all their taxable purchases. I'm not suggesting that problems aren't also created by illegal immigration... but I find that the economic contribution factor is often underestimated because of generalized anger over the issue.

tempo_n_groove

cincybearcat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

I agree as I am for a better immigration policy AND not for just giving people already here a free pass AND against Trump.

As per illegal immigrants contribution to the economy:

"Undocumented immigrants Contribution to Economy

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."

Now - I do wonder what their "take" is....how much they use.  Cause 8% seems pretty darn low based on what I'm paying

The math on this is an average of $1000 a person.

I almost pay that in a week.  They do that in a year?

Someone else posted a stat about how much illegals contributed to society and it averaged out to $600 a person.

Posting big numbers is great until you start seeing how small a contribution is a year per person.

Halifax2TheMax

"There was no collusion," "I don't know any Russians," "I have nothing to hide." Bigger than Watergate, much, much bigger. And more brilliantly brilliant in all its brilliancy.

But even more intriguing is the allegation that on August 15, 2016, the indicted officers “received a request for stolen documents from a candidate for the U.S. Congress” and that they “sent the candidate stolen documents related to the candidate’s opponent.” Without anything beyond that description to work with, it’s best not to speculate as to who this candidate might be, but it’s safe to assume they know who they are. This is a shocking allegation, and it hints at larger implications of Russiagate that the public is nowhere close to coming to terms with.

It’s rarely recalled now, but back in May 2017, The Washington Post published the transcript of a conversation from June 2016 among the House Republican leadership, in which House majority leader Kevin McCarthy made clear that he was aware “the Russians hacked the DNC and got the opp research that they had on Trump” and speculated “there’s two people, I think, that Putin pays: [Representative Dana] Rohrabacher and Trump.” Amid laughter, House Speaker Paul Ryan insisted that the conversation remain off the record, adding, “What’s said in the family stays in the family.” Ryan would later claim he and McCarthy were joking.

Moreover, it seems that the Republican leadership was at the very least aware of this possibility, amused by it, and did nothing whatsoever to alert the public or any relevant authorities. They were happy to enjoy the benefits of Russian interference and said so openly among themselves. Similarly, as the Postreported, when Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell was informed of Russian interference in September 2016 in a meeting with President Obama and other senior officials, he threatened to cast any public announcement of the threat as partisan politics. It’s not a stretch to say McConnell deliberately undermined national security for partisan advantage, a decision that has paid off with the signing of a massive tax cut for the wealthy and the looming establishment of a durable right-wing majority on the Supreme Court.

In other words, Russiagate isn’t just the narrow story of a few corrupt officials. It isn’t even the story of a corrupt president. It’s the story of a corrupt political party, the one currently holding all the levers of power in Washington. After Trump groveled before Putin in Helsinki, many Republicans in Washington proclaimed their solemn concern, just as they did when the president expressed his sympathy for the white supremacists in Charlottesville last year. But all of them are fully aware that they are abetting a criminal conspiracy, and probably more than one.

Instead, we are being told something much more frightening: that Russiagate doesn’t end with Trump and his inner circle, that some members of Congress may be implicated, and that the Republican leadership therefore has a personal stake in preventing anyone beyond Manafort and a few other flunkies from being held accountable. Mueller and the FBI are giving everyone a glimpse at the scale of official corruption in Washington, and they’re warning us that they aren’t going to be able to rein it in all by themselves.

https://www.thenation.com/article/russiagate-far-wider-trump-inner-circle/

PJ_Soul

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

I agree as I am for a better immigration policy AND not for just giving people already here a free pass AND against Trump.

As per illegal immigrants contribution to the economy:

"Undocumented immigrants Contribution to Economy

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."

Now - I do wonder what their "take" is....how much they use.  Cause 8% seems pretty darn low based on what I'm paying

The math on this is an average of $1000 a person.

I almost pay that in a week.  They do that in a year?

Someone else posted a stat about how much illegals contributed to society and it averaged out to $600 a person.

Posting big numbers is great until you start seeing how small a contribution is a year per person.

But you have to take into account everything else. I.e. the fact that they barely get anything out of those taxes paid compared to those who are legal. Plus the simple fact that they are filling jobs that need to be filled and would not be filled if they weren't there. Few things are as harmful to an economy as unfillable jobs.
The only time I think deportation should be the action against illegals is if you're talking about convicted serious criminals. I think everyone else should be placed into the immigration system, and in a lot of cases I think they should be fast-tracked.

Ledbetterman10

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Speaking of fake news. Have you guys seen those WalkAway ads? Using stock photos of people claiming to be former dems who now support Trump

1) There's actually a lot of videos on YouTube and most of them seem pretty genuine.

2) They're not all necessarily former dems who now support Trump. I'm a prime example. I left the democratic party a year ago (well before this Walk Away hashtag) out of hatred for liberalism, but I certainly didn't embrace Trump or any of his lunacy.

this post is fake news

Not sure why you'd say that other than to be a troll. But here are some of the videos I'm referencing....so they're not all memes with stock photos. And I totally got a voter registration and switched from democrat to independent so that's not fake either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdj1smZZwLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbP33yl_kT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTx_MKi6tlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOjcQnizz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NS7wXmNPgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvjetQ2I5A

same reason republicans say something is fake news

To sound idiotic? Cause that's how they sound when they say it. Trump in particular.

I hate the "fake news" phrase as much as the next guy but there is no evidence that this thing is a "movement" despite being able to find some videos on youtube. But there is evidence that this is something Russia, with the help of their bots, is trying to make bigger than it actually is to further divide Democrats and help Republicans for the midterms.

 https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opinions/russian-bots-2018-midterm-elections-opinion-love/index.html

Oh I'm positive it's not as big of a "movement" as the right would have you believe. But while there are memes that include black folks from stock photos, that doesn't mean the entire thing should be dismissed. That's why I posted a few videos. And there were lots more on YouTube. I just grabbed the first few I saw that had black people in them. 

The Juggler

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Speaking of fake news. Have you guys seen those WalkAway ads? Using stock photos of people claiming to be former dems who now support Trump

1) There's actually a lot of videos on YouTube and most of them seem pretty genuine.

2) They're not all necessarily former dems who now support Trump. I'm a prime example. I left the democratic party a year ago (well before this Walk Away hashtag) out of hatred for liberalism, but I certainly didn't embrace Trump or any of his lunacy.

this post is fake news

Not sure why you'd say that other than to be a troll. But here are some of the videos I'm referencing....so they're not all memes with stock photos. And I totally got a voter registration and switched from democrat to independent so that's not fake either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdj1smZZwLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbP33yl_kT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTx_MKi6tlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOjcQnizz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NS7wXmNPgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvjetQ2I5A

same reason republicans say something is fake news

To sound idiotic? Cause that's how they sound when they say it. Trump in particular.

I hate the "fake news" phrase as much as the next guy but there is no evidence that this thing is a "movement" despite being able to find some videos on youtube. But there is evidence that this is something Russia, with the help of their bots, is trying to make bigger than it actually is to further divide Democrats and help Republicans for the midterms.

 https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opinions/russian-bots-2018-midterm-elections-opinion-love/index.html

Oh I'm positive it's not as big of a "movement" as the right would have you believe. But while there are memes that include black folks from stock photos, that doesn't mean the entire thing should be dismissed. That's why I posted a few videos. And there were lots more on YouTube. I just grabbed the first few I saw that had black people in them. 

I've seen similar videos before, like during the election when they were announcing to the world why they were voting for Trump. I don't know if these people are real or actors or real people just getting paid to make a video. I guess I just don't put a lot of stock in something the Russian bots are trying to make go viral.

Go Beavers

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

I agree as I am for a better immigration policy AND not for just giving people already here a free pass AND against Trump.

As per illegal immigrants contribution to the economy:

"Undocumented immigrants Contribution to Economy

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."

Now - I do wonder what their "take" is....how much they use.  Cause 8% seems pretty darn low based on what I'm paying

The math on this is an average of $1000 a person.

I almost pay that in a week.  They do that in a year?

Someone else posted a stat about how much illegals contributed to society and it averaged out to $600 a person.

Posting big numbers is great until you start seeing how small a contribution is a year per person.

But you have to take into account everything else. I.e. the fact that they barely get anything out of those taxes paid compared to those who are legal. Plus the simple fact that they are filling jobs that need to be filled and would not be filled if they weren't there. Few things are as harmful to an economy as unfillable jobs.
The only time I think deportation should be the action against illegals is if you're talking about convicted serious criminals. I think everyone else should be placed into the immigration system, and in a lot of cases I think they should be fast-tracked.

You’re highlighting my major issue with the immigration debate. It was declared a huge problem without quantifying what the problem is. All the red hatters just followed along. 

Halifax2TheMax

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Speaking of fake news. Have you guys seen those WalkAway ads? Using stock photos of people claiming to be former dems who now support Trump

1) There's actually a lot of videos on YouTube and most of them seem pretty genuine.

2) They're not all necessarily former dems who now support Trump. I'm a prime example. I left the democratic party a year ago (well before this Walk Away hashtag) out of hatred for liberalism, but I certainly didn't embrace Trump or any of his lunacy.

this post is fake news

Not sure why you'd say that other than to be a troll. But here are some of the videos I'm referencing....so they're not all memes with stock photos. And I totally got a voter registration and switched from democrat to independent so that's not fake either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdj1smZZwLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbP33yl_kT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTx_MKi6tlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOjcQnizz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NS7wXmNPgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvjetQ2I5A

same reason republicans say something is fake news

To sound idiotic? Cause that's how they sound when they say it. Trump in particular.

I hate the "fake news" phrase as much as the next guy but there is no evidence that this thing is a "movement" despite being able to find some videos on youtube. But there is evidence that this is something Russia, with the help of their bots, is trying to make bigger than it actually is to further divide Democrats and help Republicans for the midterms.

 https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opinions/russian-bots-2018-midterm-elections-opinion-love/index.html

Oh I'm positive it's not as big of a "movement" as the right would have you believe. But while there are memes that include black folks from stock photos, that doesn't mean the entire thing should be dismissed. That's why I posted a few videos. And there were lots more on YouTube. I just grabbed the first few I saw that had black people in them. 

I've seen similar videos before, like during the election when they were announcing to the world why they were voting for Trump. I don't know if these people are real or actors or real people just getting paid to make a video. I guess I just don't put a lot of stock in something the Russian bots are trying to make go viral.

And yet, some posters will claim that the Russian assist didn't change votes or alter the outcome of the election in any meaningful way. putin on the ritz doesn't spend a million dollars a day for no results. Its amazing what the defunding of public education and state sponsored propaganda, Faux News, over the past 20-30 years will get you.

And why the focus on black people? Are there any whites "walking away?"

The Juggler

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Speaking of fake news. Have you guys seen those WalkAway ads? Using stock photos of people claiming to be former dems who now support Trump

1) There's actually a lot of videos on YouTube and most of them seem pretty genuine.

2) They're not all necessarily former dems who now support Trump. I'm a prime example. I left the democratic party a year ago (well before this Walk Away hashtag) out of hatred for liberalism, but I certainly didn't embrace Trump or any of his lunacy.

this post is fake news

Not sure why you'd say that other than to be a troll. But here are some of the videos I'm referencing....so they're not all memes with stock photos. And I totally got a voter registration and switched from democrat to independent so that's not fake either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdj1smZZwLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbP33yl_kT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTx_MKi6tlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOjcQnizz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NS7wXmNPgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvjetQ2I5A

same reason republicans say something is fake news

To sound idiotic? Cause that's how they sound when they say it. Trump in particular.

I hate the "fake news" phrase as much as the next guy but there is no evidence that this thing is a "movement" despite being able to find some videos on youtube. But there is evidence that this is something Russia, with the help of their bots, is trying to make bigger than it actually is to further divide Democrats and help Republicans for the midterms.

 https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opinions/russian-bots-2018-midterm-elections-opinion-love/index.html

Oh I'm positive it's not as big of a "movement" as the right would have you believe. But while there are memes that include black folks from stock photos, that doesn't mean the entire thing should be dismissed. That's why I posted a few videos. And there were lots more on YouTube. I just grabbed the first few I saw that had black people in them. 

I've seen similar videos before, like during the election when they were announcing to the world why they were voting for Trump. I don't know if these people are real or actors or real people just getting paid to make a video. I guess I just don't put a lot of stock in something the Russian bots are trying to make go viral.

And yet, some posters will claim that the Russian assist didn't change votes or alter the outcome of the election in any meaningful way. putin on the ritz doesn't spend a million dollars a day for no results. Its amazing what the defunding of public education and state sponsored propaganda, Faux News, over the past 20-30 years will get you.

And why the focus on black people? Are there any whites "walking away?"

Blacks For Trump!

cincybearcat

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

I agree as I am for a better immigration policy AND not for just giving people already here a free pass AND against Trump.

As per illegal immigrants contribution to the economy:

"Undocumented immigrants Contribution to Economy

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."

Now - I do wonder what their "take" is....how much they use.  Cause 8% seems pretty darn low based on what I'm paying

The math on this is an average of $1000 a person.

I almost pay that in a week.  They do that in a year?

Someone else posted a stat about how much illegals contributed to society and it averaged out to $600 a person.

Posting big numbers is great until you start seeing how small a contribution is a year per person.

Just reporting what I had read. Someone asked. 

Fyi - those 11 million include people that stay home (like some Americans), kids etc as well so the ones making $ and paying more than you are saying.

Ledbetterman10

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Speaking of fake news. Have you guys seen those WalkAway ads? Using stock photos of people claiming to be former dems who now support Trump

1) There's actually a lot of videos on YouTube and most of them seem pretty genuine.

2) They're not all necessarily former dems who now support Trump. I'm a prime example. I left the democratic party a year ago (well before this Walk Away hashtag) out of hatred for liberalism, but I certainly didn't embrace Trump or any of his lunacy.

this post is fake news

Not sure why you'd say that other than to be a troll. But here are some of the videos I'm referencing....so they're not all memes with stock photos. And I totally got a voter registration and switched from democrat to independent so that's not fake either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdj1smZZwLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbP33yl_kT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTx_MKi6tlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOjcQnizz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NS7wXmNPgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvjetQ2I5A

same reason republicans say something is fake news

To sound idiotic? Cause that's how they sound when they say it. Trump in particular.

I hate the "fake news" phrase as much as the next guy but there is no evidence that this thing is a "movement" despite being able to find some videos on youtube. But there is evidence that this is something Russia, with the help of their bots, is trying to make bigger than it actually is to further divide Democrats and help Republicans for the midterms.

 https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opinions/russian-bots-2018-midterm-elections-opinion-love/index.html

Oh I'm positive it's not as big of a "movement" as the right would have you believe. But while there are memes that include black folks from stock photos, that doesn't mean the entire thing should be dismissed. That's why I posted a few videos. And there were lots more on YouTube. I just grabbed the first few I saw that had black people in them. 

I've seen similar videos before, like during the election when they were announcing to the world why they were voting for Trump. I don't know if these people are real or actors or real people just getting paid to make a video. I guess I just don't put a lot of stock in something the Russian bots are trying to make go viral.

And yet, some posters will claim that the Russian assist didn't change votes or alter the outcome of the election in any meaningful way. putin on the ritz doesn't spend a million dollars a day for no results. Its amazing what the defunding of public education and state sponsored propaganda, Faux News, over the past 20-30 years will get you.

And why the focus on black people? Are there any whites "walking away?"

If that's directed at me, I posted videos of black people because the memes with stock photos that were called into question were of black people. The implication seemingly being that since those memes were fake, the whole idea of black people "walking away" must be fake. So that's why I posted videos. Though surly, it's not out of the realm of possibility (as Juggler pointed out) that they could be paid actors. 

If that wasn't directed at me and was just a question in general, Republicans just want some more black voters. 

LongestRoad

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

I don’t get the open borders thing. Who in any position of power is calling for open borders? And what’s PC culture?

Not literal open borders but Dems don't seem to be hard enough on illegal immigrants. They always want to give them a path to citizenship so that they'll eventually vote democratic.

And PC stands for political correctness.

Let's say you HAVE to choose between not being hard enough on illegal immigrants (who are a major contributor to the American economy - that is undeniable), and a campaign of hate and extremism against illegal immigrants, which is what we're seeing with the GOP now. Which one do you choose? I would think that would be an easy choice for any non-racist, frankly.

As for PC culture... I think it's insanity to attribute that to liberalism. I think this "PC Culture" thing railed against by conservatives is an exercise in irrationality.

Well if I HAD to choose I'd choose the former. But I don't have to choose. I could be against illegal immigration AND be against Trump. It's possible.

And I'm not sure that is undeniable that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy. I think you're confusing illegals with refugees. They undoubtedly contribute.

Of course - I'm sure many, many, many people are against illegal immigration and against Trump... I mean really, who is PRO illegal immigration?? Anyone?? If so, I have no clue who they are!
No, I'm not confusing illegal immigrants and refugees, and I believe that actual facts prove that illegal immigrants contribute hugely to the American economy, given that something in the realm of 11 million of them are workers in the American workforce (in jobs that legal Americans don't want to do), and each one of them at least pay taxes on all their taxable purchases. I'm not suggesting that problems aren't also created by illegal immigration... but I find that the economic contribution factor is often underestimated because of generalized anger over the issue.

But isn't it wrong, and shouldn't American businesses that use illegal immigrants and undercut businesses using legal citizens, putting them out of business be held accountable? If you are willing to hire an illegal immigrant, they should be getting paid the same as a legal citizen but they're obviously not, that's why they hire them. Not out of the goodness of their heart but to increase their profits and steal from companies that are following the law. The only ones winning in that situation are the greedy business owners. It happens a lot more than you realize.