Syria

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  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117

    I am very much anti-war... I am anti-nukes... I am anti-being an asshole in general...


    but reality is a bitch brother... ask someone in Crimea... or Tibet... or that kid that got run over by the Chinese tank just for protesting

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    my2hands said:

    I am very much anti-war... I am anti-nukes... I am anti-being an asshole in general...


    but reality is a bitch brother... ask someone in Crimea... or Tibet... or that kid that got run over by the Chinese tank just for protesting

    I hear you- yes it is a bitch- and those of us in wealthy nations are damn lucky  and I think we do need to speak out and give support to the down-trodden.  But I believe more will be accomplished by giving aid to refugees, placing embargoes on regimes that are harming innocent people, not by supplying weapons to those awful regimes (we've done that on numerous occasions) or starting more war.  I just don't see where warring has made a positive difference.

    It seems to me, first world, wealthy countries can do more to help poor regions like Tibet with tourism and cultural exchange rather than war.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    please people ... there is no proof anywhere that Assad used chemical weapons on his people now nor previously ... i just hope that when the truth actually comes out - people will revisit their viewpoints and the narrative they've been told ... remember general mattis himself said they don't actually have any proof or evidence ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    if people are truly anti-war ... i implore them to discover the atrocities that are occurring in Libya and Yemen now ... western nations are arming Saudi as they wage what is nothing less than a genocide ... if you don't want to be open to a different narrative in Syria - at least ask yourself how we can support Saudi Arabia as they rein terror on Yemen ...
  • Lizard
    Lizard So Cal Posts: 12,091
    cincybearcat said:
    So either the white helmets are a terrorist organization and everything is fake to get public support of bombing, or Assad is a monster using chemical weapons on families.

    These are 2 very extreme situations. 

    I’ve read a bunch from both sides and now I know nothing more and my head hurts :)
    I am feeling the same way...
    So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream
    Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    polaris_x said:
    please people ... there is no proof anywhere that Assad used chemical weapons on his people now nor previously ... i just hope that when the truth actually comes out - people will revisit their viewpoints and the narrative they've been told ... remember general mattis himself said they don't actually have any proof or evidence ...
    https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-executive-council-adopts-decision-regarding-the-opcw-united-nations-joint-investigative-mechanism-reports-about-chemical-weapons-use-in-the-syrian-arab-republic/

    2nd paragraph 

    Took 30 seconds to find it... just one example of several times they've found the Syrian government, as well as ISIS, guilty of using chemicals... 

    Facts.
  • bbiggs
    bbiggs Posts: 6,965
    Why is it that Syria and Russia have prevented the OPCW from inspecting the site where the chemical attack occurred in Douma?  They have been there since Saturday, but have been refused access by Syria and Russia who took over the area from the rebels.  This coming from the New York Times.
  • bbiggs
    bbiggs Posts: 6,965
    my2hands said:
    polaris_x said:
    please people ... there is no proof anywhere that Assad used chemical weapons on his people now nor previously ... i just hope that when the truth actually comes out - people will revisit their viewpoints and the narrative they've been told ... remember general mattis himself said they don't actually have any proof or evidence ...
    https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-executive-council-adopts-decision-regarding-the-opcw-united-nations-joint-investigative-mechanism-reports-about-chemical-weapons-use-in-the-syrian-arab-republic/

    2nd paragraph 

    Took 30 seconds to find it... just one example of several times they've found the Syrian government, as well as ISIS, guilty of using chemicals... 

    Facts.
    Agreed.  There is a plethora of supporting data out there.  If this is a conspiracy, like some have suggested, it is one hell of a good one with many hands in the pot.  Too far fetched for me to believe that is possible.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    https://news.un.org/en/story/2017/11/570192-both-isil-and-syrian-government-responsible-use-chemical-weapons-un-security
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    bbiggs said:
    Why is it that Syria and Russia have prevented the OPCW from inspecting the site where the chemical attack occurred in Douma?  They have been there since Saturday, but have been refused access by Syria and Russia who took over the area from the rebels.  This coming from the New York Times.
    Exactly... I mean c'mon bro! lol
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,458
    edited April 2018
    Not to mention this information.

    Chemical Weapons

    State declaration: On September 20, 2013, Syria submitted a declaration of its chemical weapons and facilities to the OPCW after years of denying the program's existence. The OPCW announced that the entirety of Syria’s declared stockpile of 1,308 metric tons of sulfur mustard agent and precursor chemicals had been destroyed in January 2016. However, reports continue to surface of chemical weapon use in Syria, raising questions about the accuracy of its initial declaration.

    Allegations: Syria had an extensive program producing a variety of agents, including nerve agents such as sarin and VX, and blistering agents, according to governments and media sources. There were also some allegations of deployed CWs on SCUD missiles. Several UN-OPCW Joint Investigative Mechanism (JIM) reports have found that the Syrian government was responsible for chemical weapons attacks in Syria, including in April 2014, March 2015, March 2016, and April 2017 and that the Islamic State was responsible for chemical weapons attacks in Syria in August 2015 and September 2016. 

    It's a hopeless situation...
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    tbergs said:
    Not to mention this information.

    Several UN-OPCW Joint Investigative Mechanism (JIM) reports have found that the Syrian government was responsible for chemical weapons attacks in Syria, including in April 2014, March 2015, March 2016, and April 2017
    Looks like Assad The Peacemaker likes to gas people in the Spring... 
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    my2hands said:
    polaris_x said:
    please people ... there is no proof anywhere that Assad used chemical weapons on his people now nor previously ... i just hope that when the truth actually comes out - people will revisit their viewpoints and the narrative they've been told ... remember general mattis himself said they don't actually have any proof or evidence ...
    https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-executive-council-adopts-decision-regarding-the-opcw-united-nations-joint-investigative-mechanism-reports-about-chemical-weapons-use-in-the-syrian-arab-republic/

    2nd paragraph 

    Took 30 seconds to find it... just one example of several times they've found the Syrian government, as well as ISIS, guilty of using chemicals... 

    Facts.
    the problem here is that the OPCW doesn't investigate blame ... so, the UN sent a team to investigate ... the problem with their report is that ultimately they are reliant on unreliable sources ... and their report was widely contradictory ... they actually didn't visit the site of the attack and actually stated that the crater which the alleged bomb dropped was filled in and unreliable yet they use it as the primary proof that the bomb must've had dropped from above ... also, their primary source of information were groups like the white helmets ... not reliable ...

    https://www.alternet.org/print/grayzone-project/what-really-happened-khan-sheikhoun
    https://www.investigaction.net/en/wmd-in-syria-just-like-iraq-in-2003-contradictions-in-the-unopcw-report-on-khan-shaykhun/
    https://www.rootclaim.com/claims/what-caused-the-chemical-calamity-in-khan-sheikhoun-on-april-4-2017-18448

    i know you're not gonna like the source but read it
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    bbiggs said:
    Why is it that Syria and Russia have prevented the OPCW from inspecting the site where the chemical attack occurred in Douma?  They have been there since Saturday, but have been refused access by Syria and Russia who took over the area from the rebels.  This coming from the New York Times.
    not exactly sure but the secondary team of the OPCW arrived and there are concerns of some of the members ... speculate either american or british members ... also, there are some security concerns with israel bombing syria ... also, the doctors who treated the patients are being interviewed in damascus by the OPCW ... so, they haven't gotten to the site but they are investigating still ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    it's definitely not related to security in the area as several journalists have visited douma and have all reported the same thing ... no chemical attack ...
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,624
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    My latest thinking on Syria is this:  We don't really know what's going on.  When the strikes happened, most of us had this feeling of a sickening sense of doom.  I did for awhile.  Here comes World War III.  We're all going to get nuked.  We're all going to die.  (Well, OK, that part is true.)  And then we start getting these reports that say, no, this was just for show.  Or, yay, we showed them!  Lots of people in Syria were killed. Or, no, not even Russian soldiers were killed.  Chemical weapons development plants were destroyed.  Or, no, important or critical sites were hit.  Blah blah blah.  Who really knows?

    The other thing we hear a lot is how terrible Trump was (or how heroic Trump was) for sending those missiles into Syria.  Really?  I don't think so.  I really don't think the president had much to do with this.  Not that I'm a fan, of course, but I really really doubt it was his call.

    What so we know?  Squat. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,956
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html i found this. Seems it was oxygen starvation from a wind storm.


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • bbiggs
    bbiggs Posts: 6,965
    polaris_x said:
    it's definitely not related to security in the area as several journalists have visited douma and have all reported the same thing ... no chemical attack ...
    2 questions in regards to this. First, if there was no chemical attack, what caused roughly 70 civilians to die? I’m guessing the response will be it was staged like a Hollywood production but I don’t feel like digging through the entire chain of posts. Second, what makes journalists in the area qualified to say whether or not a chemical attack occurred?  Wouldn’t that be better left for OPCW, who has not been given permission to do their job? 
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,604
    brianlux said:
    My latest thinking on Syria is this:  We don't really know what's going on.  When the strikes happened, most of us had this feeling of a sickening sense of doom.  I did for awhile.  Here comes World War III.  We're all going to get nuked.  We're all going to die.  (Well, OK, that part is true.)  And then we start getting these reports that say, no, this was just for show.  Or, yay, we showed them!  Lots of people in Syria were killed. Or, no, not even Russian soldiers were killed.  Chemical weapons development plants were destroyed.  Or, no, important or critical sites were hit.  Blah blah blah.  Who really knows?

    The other thing we hear a lot is how terrible Trump was (or how heroic Trump was) for sending those missiles into Syria.  Really?  I don't think so.  I really don't think the president had much to do with this.  Not that I'm a fan, of course, but I really really doubt it was his call.

    What so we know?  Squat. 
    It was his call. The President either signs off on such an attack or the attack doesn't happen. Was it his idea? Different story and highly doubtful. But it was his call.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
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