So, Russia taking Crimea by force and murdering countless journalists and members of the opposition is Americas fault?
And let me guess, the apartment bombings, a real false flag attack, was caused by them evil Americans as well, right?
Sweet baby jesus, this shit is comical
I dont know how many times i have to point this out, but i'll try again....... JIM, the joint investigative body of OPCW & The UN have clearly stated that they found the Syrian government responsible for multiple chemical attacks. That's a fact. Deny it, put your head in the sand, dont believe it, I dont really give a shit because it doesn't change reality.
Now pardon me, I have John Bolton on line 3, we're figuring out how to justify an invasion of Canada lol
Who are you talking to?
I'm talking to the Putin apologist who just claimed America and NATO are to blame for all of Russias bad actions
I never thought I would be accused of being a biased cheerleader for american exceptionalism lol
I call it how I see it... the world is not as black & white as some people like to make it, there is a lot of grey... and to just constantly bash america and portray it as evil is lazy and hypocritical
Honestly, it's not worth explaining me or my positions, feel free to label me how you wish
Sometimes liberals and progressives, like myself, need to realize the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns
Call me when 100,000 US troops are in Syria, then we can talk. Until then, feel free to continue to be Assad and Putin apologists
From everything I've read here, I don't think you have been an American cheerleader. Quite the opposite.
I guess if you don't trust Russian sources and don't outright dismiss more mainstream western sources that makes you an American cheerleader.....if so, count this Canuck in!
I guess if you don't trust Russian sources and don't outright dismiss more mainstream western sources that makes you an American cheerleader.....if so, count this Canuck in!
So, Russia taking Crimea by force and murdering countless journalists and members of the opposition is Americas fault?
And let me guess, the apartment bombings, a real false flag attack, was caused by them evil Americans as well, right?
Sweet baby jesus, this shit is comical
I dont know how many times i have to point this out, but i'll try again....... JIM, the joint investigative body of OPCW & The UN have clearly stated that they found the Syrian government responsible for multiple chemical attacks. That's a fact. Deny it, put your head in the sand, dont believe it, I dont really give a shit because it doesn't change reality.
Now pardon me, I have John Bolton on line 3, we're figuring out how to justify an invasion of Canada lol
Putin apologist. And you say your world is not black and white.
We can get sidetracked for days on this shit. Crimea and the Ukraine protests are a perfect
example of US/NATO expansionism. It’s on
record…remember the ‘fuck the EU’ phone call – Victoria Nuland discussing which
puppet the US would install in Ukraine?
The US was caught red handed planning overthrow on Russia’s doorstep. Nuland then stated openly on CNN (A MAINSTREAM US SOURCE I DIDN'T DISMISS! ) that the US
had spent 5b on the coup. Letting Crimea
go would have been surrendering one of Russia’s most strategic bases. They’d have been cut off from the Black Sea,
ergo the Mediterranean and it’s only supply route to Syria. This grievous invasion of the peninsula happened with the
full support of the people in the region, and without a shot fired.
Chechnya was some heinous shit….but guess what Russia uses
as a precedent? The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia,
and later the War on Terror. What else ya got?
Anyway, I was talking imperialism. Or should I be bringing up Waco, Ruby Ridge, capital
punishment, targeted killings, etc etc….I gave you examples of dead american and allied journalists already. Should I start listing US/NATO wars of aggression for quality/quantity comparison?
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
World war 2 was kind of a big deal. But yeah bring anything up if it is relevant.
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
World war 2 was kind of a big deal. But yeah bring anything up if it is relevant.
Thanks man, I wasn't aware lol....demonizing Russia over Stalin, telling me to ask East Germans about team america etc....cmon.
Your narrative is that America/NATO is evil and is to blame for all Russian misdeeds and aggression post WW2...
I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous that is.
How about Putin blatantly murdering journalists and political opposition? Made up by the western media? Americas fault? Or he's just a misunderstood peacemaker? Lol
The difference is I OWN Americas faults and misdeeds and don't give horseshit excuses, again, I call it how I see it... meanwhile you finger point and make excuses for Assad and Putin while riding some moral anti-american high horse
Your PM publicly approved of the latest missile attack on Syria, not me... maybe you should take a look in that Canadian mirror
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
Funny this is mentioned... I think many here still think that nuking Japan actually saved millions of lives.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
Funny this is mentioned... I think many here still think that nuking Japan actually saved millions of lives.
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
Funny this is mentioned... I think many here still think that nuking Japan actually saved millions of lives.
It just came up the other day in the other Syria thread. Glory glory hallelujah
Your narrative is that America/NATO is evil and is to blame for all Russian misdeeds and aggression post WW2...
I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous that is.
How about Putin blatantly murdering journalists and political opposition? Made up by the western media? Americas fault? Or he's just a misunderstood peacemaker? Lol
The difference is I OWN Americas faults and misdeeds and don't give horseshit excuses, again, I call it how I see it... meanwhile you finger point and make excuses for Assad and Putin while riding some moral anti-american high horse
Your PM publicly approved of the latest missile attack on Syria, not me... maybe you should take a look in that Canadian mirror
I never said the US was responsible for ALL Russian misdeeds. Hyperbole isn’t helping your cause here.
I stated that I was anti-imperialist, anti-war. You gave two examples of Russian aggression in response. I called one heinous, and noted that it was not an imperialist act – it was a (heinous) domestic act. I gave you a far-from-horseshit ‘excuse’ for the other. What other examples do you have?
Russians murdering journalists is bad. Not made up. Happy?
My PM is a douche in bed with big biz as much as any other world leader. Is adding ‘/NATO’ every time I say ‘US’ not enough to show that I am aware of my country’s faults in all of this? I’d say Canada/NATO if we were calling the shots…but we clearly do not have much pull when it comes to geopolitics.
Seriously you guys this is maccarthyism….you are hunting pinkos and anyone you perceive as sympathizing with them. It’s kinda funny
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
Funny this is mentioned... I think many here still think that nuking Japan actually saved millions of lives.
Well it did. You do realize that after the second bomb was dropped the Japanese war cabinet was tied 3-3 on whether or not to continue the war. Millions of Japanese still wanted to fight even after two atomic bombs.
Your narrative is that America/NATO is evil and is to blame for all Russian misdeeds and aggression post WW2...
I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous that is.
How about Putin blatantly murdering journalists and political opposition? Made up by the western media? Americas fault? Or he's just a misunderstood peacemaker? Lol
The difference is I OWN Americas faults and misdeeds and don't give horseshit excuses, again, I call it how I see it... meanwhile you finger point and make excuses for Assad and Putin while riding some moral anti-american high horse
Your PM publicly approved of the latest missile attack on Syria, not me... maybe you should take a look in that Canadian mirror
I never said the US was responsible for ALL Russian misdeeds. Hyperbole isn’t helping your cause here.
I stated that I was anti-imperialist, anti-war. You gave two examples of Russian aggression in response. I called one heinous, and noted that it was not an imperialist act – it was a (heinous) domestic act. I gave you a far-from-horseshit ‘excuse’ for the other. What other examples do you have?
Russians murdering journalists is bad. Not made up. Happy?
My PM is a douche in bed with big biz as much as any other world leader. Is adding ‘/NATO’ every time I say ‘US’ not enough to show that I am aware of my country’s faults in all of this? I’d say Canada/NATO if we were calling the shots…but we clearly do not have much pull when it comes to geopolitics.
Seriously you guys this is maccarthyism….you are hunting pinkos and anyone you perceive as sympathizing with them. It’s kinda funny
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
Funny this is mentioned... I think many here still think that nuking Japan actually saved millions of lives.
Well it did. You do realize that after the second bomb was dropped the Japanese war cabinet was tied 3-3 on whether or not to continue the war. Millions of Japanese still wanted to fight even after two atomic bombs.
No, it didn't. That is 100% intentional American propaganda that you're basing this on. Japan was only 2 weeks or so away from surrendering when they dropped those bombs. If Truman hadn't been a fool about them being allowed to keep their Emperor, which they did anyway at the end of the day, that war would have ended immediately without the nukes. In fact, those nukes had very little to nothing to do with them surrendering in any case. They were going to surrender because of the threat they suddenly felt coming from the Russian allies.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think claiming both McCarthyism and anti-Russian hysteria is an easy way to ignore that there is some merit to what @my2hands has been saying. I don't think McCarthyism or anti-Russian hysteria is why he has been saying it.
I think claiming both McCarthyism and anti-Russian hysteria is an easy way to ignore that there is some merit to what @my2hands has been saying. I don't think McCarthyism or anti-Russian hysteria is why he has been saying it.
Which of his points have merit that I have yet to acknowledge? Has he ignored any of mine?
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
Funny this is mentioned... I think many here still think that nuking Japan actually saved millions of lives.
Well it did. You do realize that after the second bomb was dropped the Japanese war cabinet was tied 3-3 on whether or not to continue the war. Millions of Japanese still wanted to fight even after two atomic bombs.
No, it didn't. That is 100% intentional American propaganda that you're basing this on. Japan was only 2 weeks or so away from surrendering when they dropped those bombs. If Truman hadn't been a fool about them being allowed to keep their Emperor, which they did anyway at the end of the day, that war would have ended immediately without the nukes. In fact, those nukes had very little to nothing to do with them surrendering in any case. They were going to surrender because of the threat they suddenly felt coming from the Russian allies.
Give me the proof that they were two weeks away from surrendering. Show Me some credible document. Show me the United States knew they were going to surrender. If that was the case then why was it 3-3 even after Nagasaki? That isn’t American propaganda that is fact.
I think claiming both McCarthyism and anti-Russian hysteria is an easy way to ignore that there is some merit to what @my2hands has been saying. I don't think McCarthyism or anti-Russian hysteria is why he has been saying it.
Which of his points have merit that I have yet to acknowledge? Has he ignored any of mine?
JIM has found the Syrian government was responsible for several chemical attacks
At least you agreed that murdering journalists/political opposition by Putin is real... and wrong... it's at least a start... is this where you say but, but, but whatabout 'Merica???
Feel free to justify the annexation of Crimea... it's too late anyway... imagine that, America and the rest of the free world preferred a pro-Western leader in Ukraine... how silly of them!
Didn't the Russians shoot down a fucking commercial airliner?
You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals? Stalin....
Funny this is mentioned... I think many here still think that nuking Japan actually saved millions of lives.
Well it did. You do realize that after the second bomb was dropped the Japanese war cabinet was tied 3-3 on whether or not to continue the war. Millions of Japanese still wanted to fight even after two atomic bombs.
No, it didn't. That is 100% intentional American propaganda that you're basing this on. Japan was only 2 weeks or so away from surrendering when they dropped those bombs. If Truman hadn't been a fool about them being allowed to keep their Emperor, which they did anyway at the end of the day, that war would have ended immediately without the nukes. In fact, those nukes had very little to nothing to do with them surrendering in any case. They were going to surrender because of the threat they suddenly felt coming from the Russian allies.
Give me the proof that they were two weeks away from surrendering. Show Me some credible document. If that was the case then why was it 3-3 even after Nagasaki? That isn’t not American propaganda that is fact.
The proof is found in more extensive research not spoiled by the bullshit American version of events. Try doing some reading about the issue and you'll find plenty of info about it from various view points, and the common factor is that the American line that you're touting comes out as a pretty obvious falsehood. Your demand for "hard proof" is a bit ironic though, considering the complete lack of any such thing for the version of the story that you believe. The only reason it was 3-3 is because of that Emperor issue that I mentioned (as Truman refused in order to essentially show off their shiny new bomb). But even then, right at that time Russia invaded Manchuria, and that is what was going to get them to surrender anyhow. This is according to all sorts of accounts on both the Japanese and the American military sides. Do you realize how many people in the American military leadership were against nuking Japan for these very reasons? And how contested those casualty estimates "had the bombs never been dropped" are? When Truman gushed about that aspect, he kept ratcheting up the estimates in order to make sure the American people stayed on his side, given the horrors that came out of his decision to drop the bombs. Just FYI, fun fact: your understanding of this debate places you in what's called the "Traditionalist School". There are of course many, many people who still believe what you are saying, and what is taught in the American education system (and in the Canadian education system too, FWIW), but it isn't for lack of evidence to the contrary. It shows off the power of nationalistic propaganda.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
At least you agreed that murdering journalists/political opposition by Putin is real... and wrong... it's at least a start... is this where you say but, but, but whatabout 'Merica???
Feel free to justify the annexation of Crimea... it's too late anyway... imagine that, America and the rest of the free world preferred a pro-Western leader in Ukraine... how silly of them!
Didn't the Russians shoot down a fucking commercial airliner?
C'mon
I already did the whataboutism on dead journos.
I already gave the facts on Crimea.
The Malaysian flight that was shot down had a lot of
contradictory evidence and narratives surrounding it…. international experts
saying Russia was framed on that one as well.
The case for the investigation that pointed at
Russia hinges mostly on a recording some say was faked because it was time
stamped before the plane was shot down. Lots of other issues with the narrative,
but I don’t have time to refresh my memory on it.
Conspiracy! Bots! Apologist!
Here’s some whataboutism for ya……Iran flight 655. Remember that one? No conspiracy there. No separatist fighters to fuck things up/blame....Just....'oops'
I think claiming both McCarthyism and anti-Russian hysteria is an easy way to ignore that there is some merit to what @my2hands has been saying. I don't think McCarthyism or anti-Russian hysteria is why he has been saying it.
Which of his points have merit that I have yet to acknowledge? Has he ignored any of mine?
JIM has found the Syrian government was responsible for several chemical attacks
Which is my point the last 30 pages or so lol
It’s been stated multiple times that they did so without following SOP for such an assessment….a sentiment echoed by weapons inspectors and American observers over and over….so their statements should be taken with a grain of salt. Have you acknowledged the blame the US shoulders for all of this starting in the first place? Even if Assad is guilty of chemical attacks…would they have happened without the US plotting his demise?
If Assad is guilty of chemical attacks on his own people then Assad is evil enough to order chemical attacks on his own people. He would have been evil enough with or without Western involvement in Syria. No one can say with any certainty that these attacks, if they happened, wouldn't have happened under different circumstances.
If Assad is guilty of chemical attacks on his own people then Assad is evil enough to order chemical attacks on his own people. He would have been evil enough with or without Western involvement in Syria. No one can say with any certainty that these attacks, if they happened, wouldn't have happened under different circumstances.
I suppose that’s true...but is their precedent for assad using chemical weapons prior to the ‘Civil War’?
Comments
I mean c'mon
We can get sidetracked for days on this shit. Crimea and the Ukraine protests are a perfect example of US/NATO expansionism. It’s on record…remember the ‘fuck the EU’ phone call – Victoria Nuland discussing which puppet the US would install in Ukraine? The US was caught red handed planning overthrow on Russia’s doorstep. Nuland then stated openly on CNN (A MAINSTREAM US SOURCE I DIDN'T DISMISS!
) that the US
had spent 5b on the coup. Letting Crimea
go would have been surrendering one of Russia’s most strategic bases. They’d have been cut off from the Black Sea,
ergo the Mediterranean and it’s only supply route to Syria. This grievous invasion of the peninsula happened with the
full support of the people in the region, and without a shot fired.
Chechnya was some heinous shit….but guess what Russia uses as a precedent? The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, and later the War on Terror. What else ya got?
Anyway, I was talking imperialism. Or should I be bringing up Waco, Ruby Ridge, capital punishment, targeted killings, etc etc….I gave you examples of dead american and allied journalists already. Should I start listing US/NATO wars of aggression for quality/quantity comparison?
Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements? The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals?
Stalin....
I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous that is.
How about Putin blatantly murdering journalists and political opposition? Made up by the western media? Americas fault? Or he's just a misunderstood peacemaker? Lol
The difference is I OWN Americas faults and misdeeds and don't give horseshit excuses, again, I call it how I see it... meanwhile you finger point and make excuses for Assad and Putin while riding some moral anti-american high horse
Your PM publicly approved of the latest missile attack on Syria, not me... maybe you should take a look in that Canadian mirror
Funny this is mentioned... I think many here still think that nuking Japan actually saved millions of lives.
I never said the US was responsible for ALL Russian misdeeds. Hyperbole isn’t helping your cause here.
I stated that I was anti-imperialist, anti-war. You gave two examples of Russian aggression in response. I called one heinous, and noted that it was not an imperialist act – it was a (heinous) domestic act. I gave you a far-from-horseshit ‘excuse’ for the other. What other examples do you have?
Russians murdering journalists is bad. Not made up. Happy?
My PM is a douche in bed with big biz as much as any other world leader. Is adding ‘/NATO’ every time I say ‘US’ not enough to show that I am aware of my country’s faults in all of this? I’d say Canada/NATO if we were calling the shots…but we clearly do not have much pull when it comes to geopolitics.
Seriously you guys this is maccarthyism….you are hunting pinkos and anyone you perceive as sympathizing with them. It’s kinda funny
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I kid, I kid lol
Which is my point the last 30 pages or so lol
Feel free to justify the annexation of Crimea... it's too late anyway... imagine that, America and the rest of the free world preferred a pro-Western leader in Ukraine... how silly of them!
Didn't the Russians shoot down a fucking commercial airliner?
C'mon
The only reason it was 3-3 is because of that Emperor issue that I mentioned (as Truman refused in order to essentially show off their shiny new bomb). But even then, right at that time Russia invaded Manchuria, and that is what was going to get them to surrender anyhow. This is according to all sorts of accounts on both the Japanese and the American military sides. Do you realize how many people in the American military leadership were against nuking Japan for these very reasons? And how contested those casualty estimates "had the bombs never been dropped" are? When Truman gushed about that aspect, he kept ratcheting up the estimates in order to make sure the American people stayed on his side, given the horrors that came out of his decision to drop the bombs.
Just FYI, fun fact: your understanding of this debate places you in what's called the "Traditionalist School". There are of course many, many people who still believe what you are saying, and what is taught in the American education system (and in the Canadian education system too, FWIW), but it isn't for lack of evidence to the contrary. It shows off the power of nationalistic propaganda.
I already did the whataboutism on dead journos.
I already gave the facts on Crimea.
The Malaysian flight that was shot down had a lot of contradictory evidence and narratives surrounding it…. international experts saying Russia was framed on that one as well. The case for the investigation that pointed at Russia hinges mostly on a recording some say was faked because it was time stamped before the plane was shot down. Lots of other issues with the narrative, but I don’t have time to refresh my memory on it.
Conspiracy! Bots! Apologist!
Here’s some whataboutism for ya……Iran flight 655. Remember that one? No conspiracy there. No separatist fighters to fuck things up/blame....Just....'oops'
"...I changed by not changing at all..."