Syria

brianlux

Thoughts_Arrive's comments on the other Syria thread, "WW3 here we go," prompted me to simultaneously suggest and start a general thread about Syria.  I know BBH has a thread going regarding US media and Syria but it seems appropriate at this time to talk about the overall clusterfvck that is now going on there.  

This feels like deep bad shit to me.  Someone very close to me who I've never seen display any form of depression did so today regarding this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/middleeast/trump-strikes-syria-attack.html

U.S., Britain and France Strike Syria Over Suspected Chemical Weapons Attack

lastexitlondon

I'm normally worried about all these events and strangely im not this time.  I know bad things are happening but its seems just a matter of time before Trumpet goes to town on someone to prove his manly strength. I wish uk didn't saddle up with him. Ffs the man is a lunatic regardless of what syria are doing. We have learned fuck all from iraq,Afganistan and many other clusterfuck invasions. This time it does have a feel of world war . But we all know the next war is the last. 
Won't someone save the world.

Thoughts_Arrive

This is very scary. I was going to start a thread but didn't want 100's of notifications per day haha.
The whole world is on edge. North Korea with their weapons, China ramping up their military presence around Australia (eg. Vanuatu).
I had a dream a few nights ago that some big black aircraft was dropping nukes on Melbourne.

lastexitlondon

Bombs, dropping down,
Overhead, underground,
It's instilled, to want to live.

Bombs, dropping down, 
Please forgive, our hometown,
In our insignificance.

brianlux

lastexitlondon said:

I'm normally worried about all these events and strangely im not this time.  I know bad things are happening but its seems just a matter of time before Trumpet goes to town on someone to prove his manly strength. I wish uk didn't saddle up with him. Ffs the man is a lunatic regardless of what syria are doing. We have learned fuck all from iraq,Afganistan and many other clusterfuck invasions. This time it does have a feel of world war . But we all know the next war is the last. 
Won't someone save the world.

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised to to see UK and France going along with this. 

Yes, please, someone stop this insanity!

Thoughts_Arrive said:

This is very scary. I was going to start a thread but didn't want 100's of notifications per day haha.
The whole world is on edge. North Korea with their weapons, China ramping up their military presence around Australia (eg. Vanuatu).
I had a dream a few nights ago that some big black aircraft was dropping nukes on Melbourne.

Regarding starting the thread, I'm happy to share the credit, LOL.

Yes, it is scary shit.  I've been aware of the possibility of annihilation since clear back in the 50's when we did "duck and cover" practices in the event of a nuclear war (those little school desks must have been mighty tough to protect us from nuclear weapons! haha), so in a way I feel more weary of all this than frightened.  And disappointed.  I had hoped we would somehow evolve beyond all this propensity toward some crazy Armageddon.

I do notice little changes in my feelings at times.  Jets flying into Sacramento Intl (about an hour away) are what are normally for me a friendly sound but at times like this, when I hear them, its more like a soundtrack for Dr. Strangelove.  It's weird.  Weird crazy times. 

brianlux

lastexitlondon said:

Bombs, dropping down,
Overhead, underground,
It's instilled, to want to live.

Bombs, dropping down, 
Please forgive, our hometown,
In our insignificance.

Yeah, I hope the Ed and the guys are doing some good song writing these days.  Great music is the best elixir for times like these. 

Reminds me of this excellent recent interview I heard  done with Juliana Hatfield where she mentions something like, "The world is going to end soon anyway so we should have some fun in the meantime."  Not that I think we should just party and ignore what's going down, but I would not forsake the opportunity to have a good time now and again either.  We need to.

lastexitlondon

I agree brian the world has indeed come undone and its only a matter of a short time and its all over anyway. I hope if it is its quick

Meltdown99

I’m not surprised the UK is involved ... 

stuckinline

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

josevolution

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

He will never seek any approval he believes he has total control of any military decisions, this is what we get for allowing this compromised shit head to be our president..

mfc2006

Unreal

Meltdown99

I kind of felt WW3 has been ongoing for awhile.  

RYME

What should be done with a regime that gasses people?
I certainly don't like everything about Trump.  But it seems like the hatred for Trump is greater than the hatred for some of these terrible & brutal regimes.
I can certainly understand why people don't like Trump, I don't understand the level of hatred.
Do we just let the gassing continue? Turn a blind eye?  Let it go unchecked what?
Trump doesn't strike me as a trigger happy guy.  Trump has stated many times, that we won't be nation building anymore like Bush tried in Iraq that didn't work out to well.
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to discuss.
I disagreed with Obama on a lot of things, not everything, & I never hated the guy.

Hi!

Allright, Mission Accomplished !
I swear Ive heard that before.

mcgruff10

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

tbergs

mcgruff10 said:

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

You want there to be a double standard so you make a blanket statement saying that no one here opposed missile strikes like this by other presidents. How can you even make that claim? Your statement and stance is what comes off as minimizing this completely whacked out presidency. This is just another to add to the list of shady shit. 

mcgruff10

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

You want there to be a double standard so you make a blanket statement saying that no one here opposed missile strikes like this by other presidents. How can you even make that claim? Your statement and stance is what comes off as minimizing this completely whacked out presidency. This is just another to add to the list of shady shit. 

How many unauthorized strikes did Obama have?  Was there an outcry like this from the Democrats when he did this?  Again I am no trump fan but chemical weapons being used on civilians are a big no no in my book. And yes there are double standards

Meltdown99

mcgruff10 said:

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

But Obama was a Nobel peace winner...(I still can’t that with straight face).

benjs

RYME said:

What should be done with a regime that gasses people?
I certainly don't like everything about Trump.  But it seems like the hatred for Trump is greater than the hatred for some of these terrible & brutal regimes.
I can certainly understand why people don't like Trump, I don't understand the level of hatred.
Do we just let the gassing continue? Turn a blind eye?  Let it go unchecked what?
Trump doesn't strike me as a trigger happy guy.  Trump has stated many times, that we won't be nation building anymore like Bush tried in Iraq that didn't work out to well.
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to discuss.
I disagreed with Obama on a lot of things, not everything, & I never hated the guy.

Leave "like" and "hate" out of the picture for a second for me. What Trump has stated on the record, is that he governs by instinct. He has also done things in his presidency which disagreed with his own previously stated position. Because of that, I'm not sure Trump's previous 'trigger-happy' comments hold much water.

On the topic of what to do in Syria, there are a few things which should be definitive before acting militaristically.

1. The reason for military actions should be definitive
2. The target for military actions should be precise
3. The way military actions can produce tangible long-term changes should be logically defined
4. The risk of military actions going awry should produce lower negative impact than not acting at all (i.e. if military actions go wrong, the nation is less harmed than if intervention hadn't occurred), and if the risk is greater, a risk mitigation strategy should be prepared and pre-authorized as a contingency

These are just logic and risk mitigation strategies, and it seems they have been severely lacking in any recent American intervention. Without those questions answered, RYME, what right does an intervening nation have to potentially create a worse reality without the consent of the civilians affected? 

polaris_x

syria is yet another US/UK backed regime change operation ... see the other thread for my sources ...

polaris_x

Assad does not gas his own people ... blatant lie ... previous accusations in time have been debunked ... latest attack makes no sense ... week after trump says he will withdraw from Syria; just about to liberate Douma from terrorists; that's the time to launch a chemical attack on your own people?  doesn't make sense ... also, Syria and International team dismantled all chemical weapon stockpiles years ago ... world knows Syria has no chemical weapons ...

lastexitlondon

This is very interesting

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

You want there to be a double standard so you make a blanket statement saying that no one here opposed missile strikes like this by other presidents. How can you even make that claim? Your statement and stance is what comes off as minimizing this completely whacked out presidency. This is just another to add to the list of shady shit. 

How many unauthorized strikes did Obama have?  Was there an outcry like this from the Democrats when he did this?  Again I am no trump fan but chemical weapons being used on civilians are a big no no in my book. And yes there are double standards

I seem to recall Obama was slammed by many for his military decisions. I don't think there is a double standard.

What I do think is that Trump doesn't have a clue what is happening in Syria (or any other country for that matter) and is being influenced by someone eager for action. Without knowing for sure... I'd give Obama credit for analyzing the situation before making any big decision that ultimately he'd be responsible for.  

polaris_x

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

You want there to be a double standard so you make a blanket statement saying that no one here opposed missile strikes like this by other presidents. How can you even make that claim? Your statement and stance is what comes off as minimizing this completely whacked out presidency. This is just another to add to the list of shady shit. 

How many unauthorized strikes did Obama have?  Was there an outcry like this from the Democrats when he did this?  Again I am no trump fan but chemical weapons being used on civilians are a big no no in my book. And yes there are double standards

I seem to recall Obama was slammed by many for his military decisions. I don't think there is a double standard.

What I do think is that Trump doesn't have a clue what is happening in Syria (or any other country for that matter) and is being influenced by someone eager for action. Without knowing for sure... I'd give Obama credit for analyzing the situation before making any big decision that ultimately he'd be responsible for.  

not a supporter of Obama but in 2013 I believe he threatened Syria about crossing a thin red line ... that was when the first alleged chemical attack happened ... clearly a provocation ... however, I believe he didn't ultimately launch a strike because he received information that the chemical attack was staged ...

polaris_x

for those not in the other thread ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=79&v=gFsFmgBiBMs

JimmyV

mcgruff10 said:

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

Yes this is absolutely a bipartisan problem.

brianlux

So, since we've diverted (which never happens on AMT, right?  haha!) let me ask this:  How much control does a president really have over matters like bombing other countries?  Is any president really able to just get on the horn and say, "Hey, General Chaos, bomb the shit out of Syria"?  I really don't know.  ANd I don't mean on paper, I mean, really. Don't you think some of those in places the average you and me never see have some say in these things.  I honestly don't know.  What I do know is that more war in this world at this time is massively FUBAR.

dignin

polaris_x said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

You want there to be a double standard so you make a blanket statement saying that no one here opposed missile strikes like this by other presidents. How can you even make that claim? Your statement and stance is what comes off as minimizing this completely whacked out presidency. This is just another to add to the list of shady shit. 

How many unauthorized strikes did Obama have?  Was there an outcry like this from the Democrats when he did this?  Again I am no trump fan but chemical weapons being used on civilians are a big no no in my book. And yes there are double standards

I seem to recall Obama was slammed by many for his military decisions. I don't think there is a double standard.

What I do think is that Trump doesn't have a clue what is happening in Syria (or any other country for that matter) and is being influenced by someone eager for action. Without knowing for sure... I'd give Obama credit for analyzing the situation before making any big decision that ultimately he'd be responsible for.  

not a supporter of Obama but in 2013 I believe he threatened Syria about crossing a thin red line ... that was when the first alleged chemical attack happened ... clearly a provocation ... however, I believe he didn't ultimately launch a strike because he received information that the chemical attack was staged ...

Not true. He wanted to act but congress said no. 

mcgruff10

dignin said:

polaris_x said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

You want there to be a double standard so you make a blanket statement saying that no one here opposed missile strikes like this by other presidents. How can you even make that claim? Your statement and stance is what comes off as minimizing this completely whacked out presidency. This is just another to add to the list of shady shit. 

How many unauthorized strikes did Obama have?  Was there an outcry like this from the Democrats when he did this?  Again I am no trump fan but chemical weapons being used on civilians are a big no no in my book. And yes there are double standards

I seem to recall Obama was slammed by many for his military decisions. I don't think there is a double standard.

What I do think is that Trump doesn't have a clue what is happening in Syria (or any other country for that matter) and is being influenced by someone eager for action. Without knowing for sure... I'd give Obama credit for analyzing the situation before making any big decision that ultimately he'd be responsible for.  

not a supporter of Obama but in 2013 I believe he threatened Syria about crossing a thin red line ... that was when the first alleged chemical attack happened ... clearly a provocation ... however, I believe he didn't ultimately launch a strike because he received information that the chemical attack was staged ...

Not true. He wanted to act but congress said no. 

mcgruff10

My point being, presidents do what they want and then the opposite party ridicules and complains. A few years later, a different political party does the same type of complaining when the same issue occur. Double standard. You can’t be a Democrat and bitch and moan about trump s Syrian strikes but support Obama’s just a few years before. Same can be said of Republicans. 

Hi!

dignin said:

polaris_x said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

stuckinline said:

So, the orange man ordered the airstrikes without congressional approval?

Name a president who hasn’t done this lol. Come on, I get you guys hate trump but the double standards are unreal. 

You want there to be a double standard so you make a blanket statement saying that no one here opposed missile strikes like this by other presidents. How can you even make that claim? Your statement and stance is what comes off as minimizing this completely whacked out presidency. This is just another to add to the list of shady shit. 

How many unauthorized strikes did Obama have?  Was there an outcry like this from the Democrats when he did this?  Again I am no trump fan but chemical weapons being used on civilians are a big no no in my book. And yes there are double standards

I seem to recall Obama was slammed by many for his military decisions. I don't think there is a double standard.

What I do think is that Trump doesn't have a clue what is happening in Syria (or any other country for that matter) and is being influenced by someone eager for action. Without knowing for sure... I'd give Obama credit for analyzing the situation before making any big decision that ultimately he'd be responsible for.  

not a supporter of Obama but in 2013 I believe he threatened Syria about crossing a thin red line ... that was when the first alleged chemical attack happened ... clearly a provocation ... however, I believe he didn't ultimately launch a strike because he received information that the chemical attack was staged ...

Not true. He wanted to act but congress said no. 

That was a really weird period of time. I remeber people just losing their mind over this. For example: A person down the street from me who voted McCain, Romney, and Bush ( i know this this because of his election year yard signage) put out a huge homemade sign that read, Impeach Obama, at the time Obama was contemplting strikes. It didnt make any sense too me. Also, i knew a guy, hardcore conservative, neocon, in favor of Iraq war and every other military action that the US has taken , authorized or not, being against Obama authorizing strikes. Partisan bullshit. I do remember Obama wanting to go to congress with this. Did it go up for vote?