Donald Trump
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Berkeley and Evergreen are liberal bastions. The conservative comparison I could think of was Liberty University. I would never aspire to a school that doesn't allow adult members of the opposite sex to dance or has zero tolerance for anyone LGBT. It was a comparison, not an aspiration.cincybearcat said:
So that's who you want to be? Like Liberty u? AIm higher.Halifax2TheMax said:
Please let me know when Liberty University invites the President of Planned Parenthood or a pro-choice advocate to campus and speak.BS44325 said:
They aren't talking about Berkeley because they have moved on to Evergreen College.Halifax2TheMax said:
Is any talking head on the left still talking about Berkeley? It's the right that won't let it go and if the roles were reversed would be using it as a battle cry. Nothing wrong with being intolerant of intolerance, which is what Anne coulter and her ilk are about, "whites only" should be okay. Fuck that. And her.mrussel1 said:
yet that doesn't make the left blameless nor does it mean that it isn't entering a dangerous period. Just because the left has nothing comparable doesn't mean it doesn't have issues. It does and we can't be blind to those issues. The Berkeley situation is a perfect example. You don't riot because you don't likeAnne Coulters message.dignin said:Alex Jones is entering the mainstream on the right. The man has the ear of the President, who is also a nutter. The President still has the support of the vast majority of republicans....both the leaders and voters.
It's a non-contest. The right has gone mainstream crazy. The left has nothing comparable.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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You mean like Norver Grovequist?BS44325 said:
Yes. Alternative view points must not be tolerated. Life would be so much better with only one approved news source. Just like in Russia...wait...what are we talking about?Gern Blansten said:
Exactly. Fox News has probably been the worst thing to happen to this country.Smellyman said:Reminds me of the left vs. right in the media. Yes Rachel Maddow is left, but uses facts and reason in her discourse. The right has pick your nut. Jones? Hannity? Beck? Breitbart? etc. They use neither facts or reason and their lapdogs suck it up. Yet right thinks that makes it equal...
They are not comparable.
http://www.lipstickalley.com/showthread.php/423072-RyanGOP-cuts-add-7-3-mill-children-to-13-3-mill-chldrn-already-in-extreme-poverty
The republican tax policy guru who goes after any republican that wants to raise taxes to pay for things? You mean like that alternative view point? Or the factless based, made up fantasy, misrepresented facts based alternative view point?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Funny how you didn't include Obama being compared to Hitler in your treatise of how us libs are the reason for all this vitriol and are the ones that need to be careful with our words and comparisons.BS44325 said:
I love how you gloss over Bush and Cheney being compared to Hitler...followed by McCain/Palin...followed by Romney/Ryan. Every conservative candidate since 2000 has been compared to hitler at some point, has been called a racist, has been accused of pushing granny over a cliff. This rhetoric extends down to the republican voter as well...the tea-party is labelled racist, the deplorable are labelled racist. This is done over and over again and not once do any of you demonstrate the self-awareness in realizing how destructive it is. Repealing and replacing Obamacare is not seen as an attempt to improve the system but is seen as stripping health care away and the literal killing of people. People who want to debate science are accused of "denying science"...the word denier is specifically chosen to compare it to holocaust denial which is understood to be an ultimate evil. Everything you have written is absolute nonsense and you really need to look in the mirror. No previous education secretary needed a 1 million dollar per month security detail but Betsy DeVos for some reason does.MayDay10 said:There is certainly way too much division, and it goes both ways.... I will say though that the "Right" started it and also are the ones who have taken it too far, which is why we are here in the first place with a reality star sitting as POTUS.
There was your typical back and forth fights in the Reagan and Clinton administrations, but for the most part people worked together and so did politicians.
Bush was in office and had like an 85% approval rate on the heels of 911. The handling of the military action, and some other gaffes such as Katrina and tanking the economy on the back of deregulation brought on a lot of justified criticism. The Republicans couldnt even bring him out on the campaign trail.
Then Obama takes over, and Republicans felt the need to 'get even' and the criticism was there from day 1, even though, most of the time, there was nothing to criticize. He did a pretty good job and was dignified as President, even navigating an extremely partisan and venomous Republican congress.
Now we have Donald fucking Trump in there. He deserves criticism. People I know who are Republicans hated him until he got the nomination, and suddenly support him because he is on 'their team'. I also know R's who still are true and cant stand him. They have invented something called "fake news", which gives them license to deny any fact they please, and people buy in. That is scary. They deny science and progress. They are pushing an extreme-right agenda, in the face of a "mandate" of not even winning the popular vote. It is safe to say, most people do not want this swing in climate change, health care, planned parenthood, de-regulation, etc... Just show a little bit of moderation. His inauguration speech basically amounted to "neener-neener I won". He appears to have mental illness, which is also scary.
If this were John Kasich in there, Rubio, Jeb Bush, Romney.... and people and media were acting this way, sure... it is not good. Donald Trump is president though. It makes our country an international disgrace.
https://youtu.be/ci5kBbxthtg
But who cares..."The right started it".09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Ha. You could have at least picked an example where Obama was actually compared to Hitler. In the linked example the idiot congressmen was not comparing him to Hitler...in fact it was the opposite. Dumb statement by the congressman but once again illustrating your difficulty reading.Halifax2TheMax said:0 -
Alternative viewpoints are fine. Creating an alternate universe for conservatives is wrong. That's exactly what has happened.BS44325 said:
Yes. Alternative view points must not be tolerated. Life would be so much better with only one approved news source. Just like in Russia...wait...what are we talking about?Gern Blansten said:
Exactly. Fox News has probably been the worst thing to happen to this country.Smellyman said:Reminds me of the left vs. right in the media. Yes Rachel Maddow is left, but uses facts and reason in her discourse. The right has pick your nut. Jones? Hannity? Beck? Breitbart? etc. They use neither facts or reason and their lapdogs suck it up. Yet right thinks that makes it equal...
They are not comparable.
You have been convinced that facts are "liberal media" that should not be trusted.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
No. I follow all the sources liberal/conservative/or otherwise and decide for myself what to believe. You should try it sometime.Gern Blansten said:
Alternative viewpoints are fine. Creating an alternate universe for conservatives is wrong. That's exactly what has happened.BS44325 said:
Yes. Alternative view points must not be tolerated. Life would be so much better with only one approved news source. Just like in Russia...wait...what are we talking about?Gern Blansten said:
Exactly. Fox News has probably been the worst thing to happen to this country.Smellyman said:Reminds me of the left vs. right in the media. Yes Rachel Maddow is left, but uses facts and reason in her discourse. The right has pick your nut. Jones? Hannity? Beck? Breitbart? etc. They use neither facts or reason and their lapdogs suck it up. Yet right thinks that makes it equal...
They are not comparable.
You have been convinced that facts are "liberal media" that should not be trusted.0 -
Oh my bad...so do you believe that the investigation in to whether Trump obstructed justice is justified?BS44325 said:
No. I follow all the sources liberal/conservative/or otherwise and decide for myself what to believe. You should try it sometime.Gern Blansten said:
Alternative viewpoints are fine. Creating an alternate universe for conservatives is wrong. That's exactly what has happened.BS44325 said:
Yes. Alternative view points must not be tolerated. Life would be so much better with only one approved news source. Just like in Russia...wait...what are we talking about?Gern Blansten said:
Exactly. Fox News has probably been the worst thing to happen to this country.Smellyman said:Reminds me of the left vs. right in the media. Yes Rachel Maddow is left, but uses facts and reason in her discourse. The right has pick your nut. Jones? Hannity? Beck? Breitbart? etc. They use neither facts or reason and their lapdogs suck it up. Yet right thinks that makes it equal...
They are not comparable.
You have been convinced that facts are "liberal media" that should not be trusted.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
Didn't Trump's son just say (a few days ago) that democrats criticizing his dad weren't even human?BS44325 said:
I love how you gloss over Bush and Cheney being compared to Hitler...followed by McCain/Palin...followed by Romney/Ryan. Every conservative candidate since 2000 has been compared to hitler at some point, has been called a racist, has been accused of pushing granny over a cliff. This rhetoric extends down to the republican voter as well...the tea-party is labelled racist, the deplorable are labelled racist. This is done over and over again and not once do any of you demonstrate the self-awareness in realizing how destructive it is. Repealing and replacing Obamacare is not seen as an attempt to improve the system but is seen as stripping health care away and the literal killing of people. People who want to debate science are accused of "denying science"...the word denier is specifically chosen to compare it to holocaust denial which is understood to be an ultimate evil. Everything you have written is absolute nonsense and you really need to look in the mirror. No previous education secretary needed a 1 million dollar per month security detail but Betsy DeVos for some reason does.MayDay10 said:There is certainly way too much division, and it goes both ways.... I will say though that the "Right" started it and also are the ones who have taken it too far, which is why we are here in the first place with a reality star sitting as POTUS.
There was your typical back and forth fights in the Reagan and Clinton administrations, but for the most part people worked together and so did politicians.
Bush was in office and had like an 85% approval rate on the heels of 911. The handling of the military action, and some other gaffes such as Katrina and tanking the economy on the back of deregulation brought on a lot of justified criticism. The Republicans couldnt even bring him out on the campaign trail.
Then Obama takes over, and Republicans felt the need to 'get even' and the criticism was there from day 1, even though, most of the time, there was nothing to criticize. He did a pretty good job and was dignified as President, even navigating an extremely partisan and venomous Republican congress.
Now we have Donald fucking Trump in there. He deserves criticism. People I know who are Republicans hated him until he got the nomination, and suddenly support him because he is on 'their team'. I also know R's who still are true and cant stand him. They have invented something called "fake news", which gives them license to deny any fact they please, and people buy in. That is scary. They deny science and progress. They are pushing an extreme-right agenda, in the face of a "mandate" of not even winning the popular vote. It is safe to say, most people do not want this swing in climate change, health care, planned parenthood, de-regulation, etc... Just show a little bit of moderation. His inauguration speech basically amounted to "neener-neener I won". He appears to have mental illness, which is also scary.
If this were John Kasich in there, Rubio, Jeb Bush, Romney.... and people and media were acting this way, sure... it is not good. Donald Trump is president though. It makes our country an international disgrace.
https://youtu.be/ci5kBbxthtg
But who cares..."The right started it".Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
So, if that's how you took it, why did the congressman apologize. And yet you condemn a fellow poster for using the term "evil" to describe Trump and write about how using the term "denier" as it relates to climate change or climate science denial is toxic to the discourse and as such libs bear responsibility for the shooting yesterday but so quickly dismiss a repubs same tactic. Who needs to look in the mirror again?BS44325 said:
Ha. You could have at least picked an example where Obama was actually compared to Hitler. In the linked example the idiot congressmen was not comparing him to Hitler...in fact it was the opposite. Dumb statement by the congressman but once again illustrating your difficulty reading.Halifax2TheMax said:09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Yeah I just get tired of everyone always deflecting an saying....remember when Side A didn't care back in 1999? Instead of dealing with the issue at hand.Halifax2TheMax said:
Berkeley and Evergreen are liberal bastions. The conservative comparison I could think of was Liberty University. I would never aspire to a school that doesn't allow adult members of the opposite sex to dance or has zero tolerance for anyone LGBT. It was a comparison, not an aspiration.cincybearcat said:
So that's who you want to be? Like Liberty u? AIm higher.Halifax2TheMax said:
Please let me know when Liberty University invites the President of Planned Parenthood or a pro-choice advocate to campus and speak.BS44325 said:
They aren't talking about Berkeley because they have moved on to Evergreen College.Halifax2TheMax said:
Is any talking head on the left still talking about Berkeley? It's the right that won't let it go and if the roles were reversed would be using it as a battle cry. Nothing wrong with being intolerant of intolerance, which is what Anne coulter and her ilk are about, "whites only" should be okay. Fuck that. And her.mrussel1 said:
yet that doesn't make the left blameless nor does it mean that it isn't entering a dangerous period. Just because the left has nothing comparable doesn't mean it doesn't have issues. It does and we can't be blind to those issues. The Berkeley situation is a perfect example. You don't riot because you don't likeAnne Coulters message.dignin said:Alex Jones is entering the mainstream on the right. The man has the ear of the President, who is also a nutter. The President still has the support of the vast majority of republicans....both the leaders and voters.
It's a non-contest. The right has gone mainstream crazy. The left has nothing comparable.
"The democrats are obstructionist"
"yeah, well the Republicans did it first"
Trump has really helped lower the bar and has everyone just bickering and claiming how bad the other team is whenever confronted with something their team is doing that isn't really ok.
Oh and Liberty is a private school whereas Cal Berkeley is Public. So is Evergreen ....isnt it? It makes a difference.hippiemom = goodness0 -
What universities are considered conservative? Liberty U? Is there really a comparison?Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
Hmmm. I have two problems with the question. First...is obstruction of justice by Trump actually being investigated? The Washington Post via unnamed sources says so but who knows if that is true or to what extent. It could be another leak generated to make things look worse then they actually appear (As Comey testified with respect to leaks to the New York Times). Two...the word "justified"...based on public evidence available so far no I do not believe that if obstruction is being investigated that it is "justified. Now it is possible that there is evidence we do not know that "justifies" that type of investigation but I haven't seen it yet. Is Trump's "hope" comment with respect to Flynn really going to be the evidence Mueller hangs his hat on? Also "If" no actually crime has been committed then what justice has actually been obstructed? The colIusion charge seems to have already gone out the window. What is being obstructed? My thoughts don't really matter though...I don't believe charging Scooter Libby for Richard Armitage's big mouth was "justified" yet it still happened. Does this answer suggest I live in an alternative conservative universe? It seems to stick to publicly available evidence we all share.Gern Blansten said:
Oh my bad...so do you believe that the investigation in to whether Trump obstructed justice is justified?BS44325 said:
No. I follow all the sources liberal/conservative/or otherwise and decide for myself what to believe. You should try it sometime.Gern Blansten said:
Alternative viewpoints are fine. Creating an alternate universe for conservatives is wrong. That's exactly what has happened.BS44325 said:
Yes. Alternative view points must not be tolerated. Life would be so much better with only one approved news source. Just like in Russia...wait...what are we talking about?Gern Blansten said:
Exactly. Fox News has probably been the worst thing to happen to this country.Smellyman said:Reminds me of the left vs. right in the media. Yes Rachel Maddow is left, but uses facts and reason in her discourse. The right has pick your nut. Jones? Hannity? Beck? Breitbart? etc. They use neither facts or reason and their lapdogs suck it up. Yet right thinks that makes it equal...
They are not comparable.
You have been convinced that facts are "liberal media" that should not be trusted.0 -
Yeah. He was wrong to say that. The shooter was clearly human. Not even mentally ill. Just a normal member of the #resistance.Gern Blansten said:
Didn't Trump's son just say (a few days ago) that democrats criticizing his dad weren't even human?BS44325 said:
I love how you gloss over Bush and Cheney being compared to Hitler...followed by McCain/Palin...followed by Romney/Ryan. Every conservative candidate since 2000 has been compared to hitler at some point, has been called a racist, has been accused of pushing granny over a cliff. This rhetoric extends down to the republican voter as well...the tea-party is labelled racist, the deplorable are labelled racist. This is done over and over again and not once do any of you demonstrate the self-awareness in realizing how destructive it is. Repealing and replacing Obamacare is not seen as an attempt to improve the system but is seen as stripping health care away and the literal killing of people. People who want to debate science are accused of "denying science"...the word denier is specifically chosen to compare it to holocaust denial which is understood to be an ultimate evil. Everything you have written is absolute nonsense and you really need to look in the mirror. No previous education secretary needed a 1 million dollar per month security detail but Betsy DeVos for some reason does.MayDay10 said:There is certainly way too much division, and it goes both ways.... I will say though that the "Right" started it and also are the ones who have taken it too far, which is why we are here in the first place with a reality star sitting as POTUS.
There was your typical back and forth fights in the Reagan and Clinton administrations, but for the most part people worked together and so did politicians.
Bush was in office and had like an 85% approval rate on the heels of 911. The handling of the military action, and some other gaffes such as Katrina and tanking the economy on the back of deregulation brought on a lot of justified criticism. The Republicans couldnt even bring him out on the campaign trail.
Then Obama takes over, and Republicans felt the need to 'get even' and the criticism was there from day 1, even though, most of the time, there was nothing to criticize. He did a pretty good job and was dignified as President, even navigating an extremely partisan and venomous Republican congress.
Now we have Donald fucking Trump in there. He deserves criticism. People I know who are Republicans hated him until he got the nomination, and suddenly support him because he is on 'their team'. I also know R's who still are true and cant stand him. They have invented something called "fake news", which gives them license to deny any fact they please, and people buy in. That is scary. They deny science and progress. They are pushing an extreme-right agenda, in the face of a "mandate" of not even winning the popular vote. It is safe to say, most people do not want this swing in climate change, health care, planned parenthood, de-regulation, etc... Just show a little bit of moderation. His inauguration speech basically amounted to "neener-neener I won". He appears to have mental illness, which is also scary.
If this were John Kasich in there, Rubio, Jeb Bush, Romney.... and people and media were acting this way, sure... it is not good. Donald Trump is president though. It makes our country an international disgrace.
https://youtu.be/ci5kBbxthtg
But who cares..."The right started it".0 -
He did need to apologize. I called him an idiot. Anybody who uses "hitler" in any sentence is a moron that needs to apologize.Halifax2TheMax said:
So, if that's how you took it, why did the congressman apologize. And yet you condemn a fellow poster for using the term "evil" to describe Trump and write about how using the term "denier" as it relates to climate change or climate science denial is toxic to the discourse and as such libs bear responsibility for the shooting yesterday but so quickly dismiss a repubs same tactic. Who needs to look in the mirror again?BS44325 said:
Ha. You could have at least picked an example where Obama was actually compared to Hitler. In the linked example the idiot congressmen was not comparing him to Hitler...in fact it was the opposite. Dumb statement by the congressman but once again illustrating your difficulty reading.Halifax2TheMax said:0 -
Hitler wasn't a cool dude.BS44325 said:
He did need to apologize. I called him an idiot. Anybody who uses "hitler" in any sentence is a moron that needs to apologize.Halifax2TheMax said:
So, if that's how you took it, why did the congressman apologize. And yet you condemn a fellow poster for using the term "evil" to describe Trump and write about how using the term "denier" as it relates to climate change or climate science denial is toxic to the discourse and as such libs bear responsibility for the shooting yesterday but so quickly dismiss a repubs same tactic. Who needs to look in the mirror again?BS44325 said:
Ha. You could have at least picked an example where Obama was actually compared to Hitler. In the linked example the idiot congressmen was not comparing him to Hitler...in fact it was the opposite. Dumb statement by the congressman but once again illustrating your difficulty reading.Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm sorry, I'm a moron, I apologize for having said that.0 -
Evergreen is private as well.cincybearcat said:
Yeah I just get tired of everyone always deflecting an saying....remember when Side A didn't care back in 1999? Instead of dealing with the issue at hand.Halifax2TheMax said:
Berkeley and Evergreen are liberal bastions. The conservative comparison I could think of was Liberty University. I would never aspire to a school that doesn't allow adult members of the opposite sex to dance or has zero tolerance for anyone LGBT. It was a comparison, not an aspiration.cincybearcat said:
So that's who you want to be? Like Liberty u? AIm higher.Halifax2TheMax said:
Please let me know when Liberty University invites the President of Planned Parenthood or a pro-choice advocate to campus and speak.BS44325 said:
They aren't talking about Berkeley because they have moved on to Evergreen College.Halifax2TheMax said:
Is any talking head on the left still talking about Berkeley? It's the right that won't let it go and if the roles were reversed would be using it as a battle cry. Nothing wrong with being intolerant of intolerance, which is what Anne coulter and her ilk are about, "whites only" should be okay. Fuck that. And her.mrussel1 said:
yet that doesn't make the left blameless nor does it mean that it isn't entering a dangerous period. Just because the left has nothing comparable doesn't mean it doesn't have issues. It does and we can't be blind to those issues. The Berkeley situation is a perfect example. You don't riot because you don't likeAnne Coulters message.dignin said:Alex Jones is entering the mainstream on the right. The man has the ear of the President, who is also a nutter. The President still has the support of the vast majority of republicans....both the leaders and voters.
It's a non-contest. The right has gone mainstream crazy. The left has nothing comparable.
"The democrats are obstructionist"
"yeah, well the Republicans did it first"
Trump has really helped lower the bar and has everyone just bickering and claiming how bad the other team is whenever confronted with something their team is doing that isn't really ok.
Oh and Liberty is a private school whereas Cal Berkeley is Public. So is Evergreen ....isnt it? It makes a difference.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
its funny because I flipped on Rush for a minute on lunch... and he was associating the democrats with Nazi Germany, and also with Communism. All because "they" constantly engage in Social warfare and also racial warfare and that is what those groups were made from. (He also repeated these points 3 or 4 times so they "hopefully" took root)BS44325 said:
I love how you gloss over Bush and Cheney being compared to Hitler...followed by McCain/Palin...followed by Romney/Ryan. Every conservative candidate since 2000 has been compared to hitler at some point, has been called a racist, has been accused of pushing granny over a cliff. This rhetoric extends down to the republican voter as well...the tea-party is labelled racist, the deplorable are labelled racist. This is done over and over again and not once do any of you demonstrate the self-awareness in realizing how destructive it is. Repealing and replacing Obamacare is not seen as an attempt to improve the system but is seen as stripping health care away and the literal killing of people. People who want to debate science are accused of "denying science"...the word denier is specifically chosen to compare it to holocaust denial which is understood to be an ultimate evil. Everything you have written is absolute nonsense and you really need to look in the mirror. No previous education secretary needed a 1 million dollar per month security detail but Betsy DeVos for some reason does.MayDay10 said:There is certainly way too much division, and it goes both ways.... I will say though that the "Right" started it and also are the ones who have taken it too far, which is why we are here in the first place with a reality star sitting as POTUS.
There was your typical back and forth fights in the Reagan and Clinton administrations, but for the most part people worked together and so did politicians.
Bush was in office and had like an 85% approval rate on the heels of 911. The handling of the military action, and some other gaffes such as Katrina and tanking the economy on the back of deregulation brought on a lot of justified criticism. The Republicans couldnt even bring him out on the campaign trail.
Then Obama takes over, and Republicans felt the need to 'get even' and the criticism was there from day 1, even though, most of the time, there was nothing to criticize. He did a pretty good job and was dignified as President, even navigating an extremely partisan and venomous Republican congress.
Now we have Donald fucking Trump in there. He deserves criticism. People I know who are Republicans hated him until he got the nomination, and suddenly support him because he is on 'their team'. I also know R's who still are true and cant stand him. They have invented something called "fake news", which gives them license to deny any fact they please, and people buy in. That is scary. They deny science and progress. They are pushing an extreme-right agenda, in the face of a "mandate" of not even winning the popular vote. It is safe to say, most people do not want this swing in climate change, health care, planned parenthood, de-regulation, etc... Just show a little bit of moderation. His inauguration speech basically amounted to "neener-neener I won". He appears to have mental illness, which is also scary.
If this were John Kasich in there, Rubio, Jeb Bush, Romney.... and people and media were acting this way, sure... it is not good. Donald Trump is president though. It makes our country an international disgrace.
https://youtu.be/ci5kBbxthtg
But who cares..."The right started it".
Im not a Democrat... but talk like this, from a mainstream host is completely inflammatory and uncalled for.
Were mainstream people making connections between McCain and Romney and Hitler? If so, that isnt accurate. Palin was a cartoon character, and for some reason the told McCain to prance around like a fool and talk about being a Maverick and shaking up "Warshington".
Post edited by MayDay10 on0 -
There you go again, doing exactly what you're criticizing libs for. What's the matter, no mirrors in your house?BS44325 said:
Yeah. He was wrong to say that. The shooter was clearly human. Not even mentally ill. Just a normal member of the #resistance.Gern Blansten said:
Didn't Trump's son just say (a few days ago) that democrats criticizing his dad weren't even human?BS44325 said:
I love how you gloss over Bush and Cheney being compared to Hitler...followed by McCain/Palin...followed by Romney/Ryan. Every conservative candidate since 2000 has been compared to hitler at some point, has been called a racist, has been accused of pushing granny over a cliff. This rhetoric extends down to the republican voter as well...the tea-party is labelled racist, the deplorable are labelled racist. This is done over and over again and not once do any of you demonstrate the self-awareness in realizing how destructive it is. Repealing and replacing Obamacare is not seen as an attempt to improve the system but is seen as stripping health care away and the literal killing of people. People who want to debate science are accused of "denying science"...the word denier is specifically chosen to compare it to holocaust denial which is understood to be an ultimate evil. Everything you have written is absolute nonsense and you really need to look in the mirror. No previous education secretary needed a 1 million dollar per month security detail but Betsy DeVos for some reason does.MayDay10 said:There is certainly way too much division, and it goes both ways.... I will say though that the "Right" started it and also are the ones who have taken it too far, which is why we are here in the first place with a reality star sitting as POTUS.
There was your typical back and forth fights in the Reagan and Clinton administrations, but for the most part people worked together and so did politicians.
Bush was in office and had like an 85% approval rate on the heels of 911. The handling of the military action, and some other gaffes such as Katrina and tanking the economy on the back of deregulation brought on a lot of justified criticism. The Republicans couldnt even bring him out on the campaign trail.
Then Obama takes over, and Republicans felt the need to 'get even' and the criticism was there from day 1, even though, most of the time, there was nothing to criticize. He did a pretty good job and was dignified as President, even navigating an extremely partisan and venomous Republican congress.
Now we have Donald fucking Trump in there. He deserves criticism. People I know who are Republicans hated him until he got the nomination, and suddenly support him because he is on 'their team'. I also know R's who still are true and cant stand him. They have invented something called "fake news", which gives them license to deny any fact they please, and people buy in. That is scary. They deny science and progress. They are pushing an extreme-right agenda, in the face of a "mandate" of not even winning the popular vote. It is safe to say, most people do not want this swing in climate change, health care, planned parenthood, de-regulation, etc... Just show a little bit of moderation. His inauguration speech basically amounted to "neener-neener I won". He appears to have mental illness, which is also scary.
If this were John Kasich in there, Rubio, Jeb Bush, Romney.... and people and media were acting this way, sure... it is not good. Donald Trump is president though. It makes our country an international disgrace.
https://youtu.be/ci5kBbxthtg
But who cares..."The right started it".09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Evergreen is public. It is a weird, non-traditional public college in Olympia, WA. They don't give out grades (you get teacher evaluations). Their mascot is the geoduck, which seems to be appropriately weird as well.Halifax2TheMax said:
Evergreen is private as well.cincybearcat said:
Yeah I just get tired of everyone always deflecting an saying....remember when Side A didn't care back in 1999? Instead of dealing with the issue at hand.Halifax2TheMax said:
Berkeley and Evergreen are liberal bastions. The conservative comparison I could think of was Liberty University. I would never aspire to a school that doesn't allow adult members of the opposite sex to dance or has zero tolerance for anyone LGBT. It was a comparison, not an aspiration.cincybearcat said:
So that's who you want to be? Like Liberty u? AIm higher.Halifax2TheMax said:
Please let me know when Liberty University invites the President of Planned Parenthood or a pro-choice advocate to campus and speak.BS44325 said:
They aren't talking about Berkeley because they have moved on to Evergreen College.Halifax2TheMax said:
Is any talking head on the left still talking about Berkeley? It's the right that won't let it go and if the roles were reversed would be using it as a battle cry. Nothing wrong with being intolerant of intolerance, which is what Anne coulter and her ilk are about, "whites only" should be okay. Fuck that. And her.mrussel1 said:
yet that doesn't make the left blameless nor does it mean that it isn't entering a dangerous period. Just because the left has nothing comparable doesn't mean it doesn't have issues. It does and we can't be blind to those issues. The Berkeley situation is a perfect example. You don't riot because you don't likeAnne Coulters message.dignin said:Alex Jones is entering the mainstream on the right. The man has the ear of the President, who is also a nutter. The President still has the support of the vast majority of republicans....both the leaders and voters.
It's a non-contest. The right has gone mainstream crazy. The left has nothing comparable.
"The democrats are obstructionist"
"yeah, well the Republicans did it first"
Trump has really helped lower the bar and has everyone just bickering and claiming how bad the other team is whenever confronted with something their team is doing that isn't really ok.
Oh and Liberty is a private school whereas Cal Berkeley is Public. So is Evergreen ....isnt it? It makes a difference.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080
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