Police abuse

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Lives have been lost and changed, cities destroyed for generations by bad police and the pro-cop attitude.  
Now is the time that we should dramatically increase the standards for police work in here in every way.

Agreed, but let's at least discern what good police work is and what bad police work is.

To the cop basher (such a stud yourself)... everytime a criminal gets shot wielding a weapon and defying the police... it's bad police work. That's simply not the case.

We disagree.  
The standard for shooting a citizen to death should be "posed an immediate threat" and not "had a weapon, didn't comply".
Under your system, Tamir Rice is a case of good police work.  Under my system, he is a living teenager.

I knew we would disagree. You're too far gone to see any middle ground.

No... Tamir was not a good case of
police work.

Under your rule... the cops who defended themselves against the knife wielding maniac (and never retreated to their car... drove away... and let the guy cool down) would lose their badges and face criminal charges.

You are incapable of discussing this topic in a mature way.

Give me a break.

That is exactly what you said in the moment when that case came up. I keep referring to it because it so clearly demonstrates how ridiculous you are approaching this material.

You've never once sided with police on any of the cases discussed at length on these boards. You've claimed abuse every single time. So... don't speak to anyone's limitations on this topic.

tbergs said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

I just refreshed my memory of Tamir. I won't argue it was a tragedy, and incredibly sad.
Unfortunately, there are parts i this country where 12 and 13 year olds are in gangs and have a gun. SO what do you want the police to do? Wait until someone gets shot?
It is a sad story, but I place zero fault on the police in that situation. It was a toy gu where the orange tip had been removed, he had been pointing it at people, reached for it in his waistband when police arrived. Seriously, what do they need to do, wait until shots are fired before they intervene?  I certainly don't expect that.
I have seen bad examples of police work, I dont argue that they don't exist. I argue that it seems like far too many police shootings now are claimed to be "abuse" when they are not.  I wouldn't give those cops a medal for great police work, but I can't fault them for what happened either, given the information available to them and the circumstances. It was a tragedy, and I'mm sure those cops think about it every day.

The standard for shooting is "posed an immediate threat" and not "had a weapon" as you suggested. Someone reaching for a gun in their waistband is an IMMEDIATE threat.

Under your system you also have 2 dead cops.

So if reaching for a gun isn't an immediate threat, what is? When he points it at you? When he fires the first round? When the first person get shot? WHat someone actually dies? When, in your opinion, is an armed person an immediate threat? 

That is not a correct summary of the Tamir Rice case as supported by evidence.  You have accepted the official police version which has elements omitted and details which are not corroborated by the evidence available.

The video is inconclusive as to whether he was reaching for the weapon, and the only thing that is truly definitive is that the officer assumed the citizen to be an immediate threat prior to actually assessing him.

If we're going to talk about Rice, then lets make sure to point out how badly the dispatcher messed up. A costly mistake for sure and I'm sure they feel horrible about it. Mistakes happen isn't acceptable in the LE world, but they are going to happen because people make mistakes, so what is the solution? Rice is not an abuse of power situation either. It would be really nice if we were like Australia and guns were not an option, but until then, incidents like this will continue to happen.

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Lives have been lost and changed, cities destroyed for generations by bad police and the pro-cop attitude.  
Now is the time that we should dramatically increase the standards for police work in here in every way.

Agreed, but let's at least discern what good police work is and what bad police work is.

To the cop basher (such a stud yourself)... everytime a criminal gets shot wielding a weapon and defying the police... it's bad police work. That's simply not the case.

We disagree.  
The standard for shooting a citizen to death should be "posed an immediate threat" and not "had a weapon, didn't comply".
Under your system, Tamir Rice is a case of good police work.  Under my system, he is a living teenager.

I knew we would disagree. You're too far gone to see any middle ground.

No... Tamir was not a good case of
police work.

Under your rule... the cops who defended themselves against the knife wielding maniac (and never retreated to their car... drove away... and let the guy cool down) would lose their badges and face criminal charges.

You are incapable of discussing this topic in a mature way.

Give me a break.

That is exactly what you said in the moment when that case came up. I keep referring to it because it so clearly demonstrates how ridiculous you are approaching this material.

You've never once sided with police on any of the cases discussed at length on these boards. You've claimed abuse every single time. So... don't speak to anyone's limitations on this topic.

I've stated clearly what I meant a number of times and your continual, deliberate misrepresentation of my views is childish.

I have sided with the cops on aspects of their police work a number of times, but that is inconvenient to your straw man argument.  Notable cases would be Michael Brown, Freddie Grey, and Sandra Brown.

pjhawks said:

CM189191 said:

They have figured out how to police in other countries without summarily executing anything that might possibly resemble a threat.  How does the rest of the modern industrialized world manage to do it?

less guns in those countries so less threats to cops there.  it's not really that complicated.  of course eve when criminals here have guns in their hands some people don't want our cops to react.

CM189191 said:

rgambs said:

If this was a cartoon lampooning the tendency toward disproportionately shooting black people it would be clever and funny, but I don't think it's that, I think it's just a jab at cops being scaredy cats, which isn't fair.

Why not both? 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5a2_Pc7WF0w

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs, when you walk by a person dressed as a police officer what goes through your mind?