Only 2 Drummers Get In? RnRHOF. Merged

HughFreakingDillon said:

tweedyfanjen said:

I dunno, I still think it would be odd.

for him to be sitting in the crowd? CJ Ramone was. Chad Channing was. Dave Mustaine was.

So? I'm just commenting on Dave. I think it would odd especially considering his response to the whole Hall of Fame thing. If you don't think it would be odd, then cool.

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Merkin Baller said:

Jack Irons is responsible for this band getting together & keeping it together a few years later for No Code & Yield,

...speaking of romanticising.

Well, Jack Irons gave the demo tape to EV, so that's a fact, I'm not romanticizing the past. If not for him, EV never gets the demos tape.

As far as him saving the band, don't take my word for it:

"The band’s plan to record on the road—Chicago, New Orleans, Seattle, Atlanta—while still stringing together Ticketmaster-less shows only stretched the frayed bonds of communication further. But this time Irons was on hand to hold the center together. “Everybody was on their best musical behavior around him,” producer Brendan O’Brien admitted to Spin. McCready called him a “big spiritual influence—if not the biggest.”

Irons wasn’t just massaging bruised egos. His loose, tribal drumming style was creating an entirely new terrain for the rest of the band to stretch out on. “We realized we had a chance to experiment,” Vedder told Spin. But what was happening in the studio was more akin to an outright reinvention."

( http://www.avclub.com/article/trampled-moss-and-sitars-pearl-jams-tricky-transfo-240770 )

Gossard almost quit after Vitaolgy, Ament almost quit during the onset of the No Code sessions - multiple members of the band credit JI with keeping them together.

So how am I romanticizing his contribution exactly?

No response, Spiritual Chaos?

Sure. After I've finished work.

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.

My comment was in response to SC who said I romanticized JI's role in the band.

I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.

I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.

well, the only role you stated about jack was the spiritual one, which I don't think qualifies as a consideration. Anyway, we might be talking apples and oranges here.

I think Dave's contributions were huge, drumming wise. they played their heaviest shit when they needed to play their heaviest shit. not that this SHOULD matter, but when speaking of the Hall, it seems to: he played on their two biggest commerically successful albums that were not Ten.

tweedyfanjen said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tweedyfanjen said:

I dunno, I still think it would be odd.

for him to be sitting in the crowd? CJ Ramone was. Chad Channing was. Dave Mustaine was.

So? I'm just commenting on Dave. I think it would odd especially considering his response to the whole Hall of Fame thing. If you don't think it would be odd, then cool.

what's odd is how it seems I'm not supposed to reply to a comment I disagree with.

I was merely stating my opinion backed with context. Not trying to be argumentative. I was just confirming if you thought it would be odd for him to be inducted, or to be in the crowd, and if the latter, asking why that would be odd.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.

My comment was in response to SC who said I romanticized JI's role in the band.

I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.

I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.

well, the only role you stated about jack was the spiritual one, which I don't think qualifies as a consideration. Anyway, we might be talking apples and oranges here.

I think Dave's contributions were huge, drumming wise. they played their heaviest shit when they needed to play their heaviest shit. not that this SHOULD matter, but when speaking of the Hall, it seems to: he played on their two biggest commerically successful albums that were not Ten.

I also quoted Brendan O'Brien as saying the band was barely communicating at the time, but seemed to act professional around JI - I don't think that quote should be overlooked or dismissed.

IDK.... read the article I linked if you get the chance. That, and other articles I read not too long ago paint a picture of a band on the verge of imploding, and it seems like JI brought them back together (Jeff didn't even know the band had started sessions on NC, it sound's like a pretty dark time for them - I'll see if I can't dig up the other articles I recall reading a little later)

As someone else mentioned, I feel like VS & Vitalogy were going to happen regardless of whatever drummer they found. After reading the articles I did, it seemed like NC & Yield never would have happened had JI not come along.

Regarding their meteoric rise to fame during DA's tenure - I think that had as much if not more to do with the whole grunge / alternative movement of the time as it did whomever was behind the kit. I feel like it would have happened regardless of who played drums at the time, that's my $0.02.

Peace.

who cares if individual band memebers dont like him personally or disagree with him politically, its about showing respect and appreciation for the BAND and the MUSIC they made together. he contributed alot to the band and their sound during their most important years. he deserves recognition for that. pearl jam are stand up guys, i fully expect them to do the right thing.

I really couldn't care less if Dave A is included... I guess I care a little more about Jack, but meh, whatever. Seems to me that the Hall of Fame has rules, and they are following the rules. Good enough for me, and PJ should respect the rules. I assume that rule is to prevent a dozen people from one band being inducted, even if half of them barely did anything over the years. Makes sense.
I can't fucking believe anyone is suggesting that PJ boycott the HoF for the sake of Dave A, lmao.

rbrum7 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rbrum7 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rbrum7 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

jeffbr said:

rbrum7 said:

I don't think it's any surprise to anyone who actually knows the history of the band somewhat, that they don't like Dave based on the type of person he is and the way he acted towards the members of the band.

I don't want to get all political here or crush the dreams of any conservatives out there, but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them.

I was waiting for this. LOL. when Ed inducted the Ramones, Joey fucking said "god bless george bush" with Ed standing right beside him. you don't get much more conservative than that.

Big difference, Joey was an idol/icon to him. Dave was some guy who started off as a fill in for drummer and ended up staying for 2 more albums.

and I quote:

"..but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them".

Yes, doesn't 'care MUCH'. If you want to say a statement is a blanket statement and covers all instances, then we aren't going to agree on anything.

Ok, you have Joey Ramone to throw out there. Everyone is aware of that. What else can you come up with?

nothing. I don't know any of their friends. My point is I think it would be weird for anyone, musician or not, to surround themselves with only others who share the same particular political leanings.

I agree 100% with you on that one. I just know he rubbed them the wrong way, partly because of his views and that's well documented. I myself am Liberal and surround myself with all different view points.

I have never had the impression that the band had issues with Dave simply because of his politics. Seems to me they had problems with his personality more than anything else. When you like someone, their politics don't matter much. But when you don't like someone and can't get along with them, their politics that you don't like are just another nail in the coffin.

PJ_Soul said:

I really couldn't care less if Dave A is included... I guess I care a little more about Jack, but meh, whatever. Seems to me that the Hall of Fame has rules, and they are following the rules. Good enough for me, and PJ should respect the rules. I assume that rule is to prevent a dozen people from one band being inducted, even if half of them barely did anything over the years. Makes sense.
I can't fucking believe anyone is suggesting that PJ boycott the HoF for the sake of Dave A, lmao.

yes boycott for Dave A! lol
In fact, please please please don't try to get tickets for the ceremony. And obviously if your fan club number is below 139XXX you should quit the 10c immediately.