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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,022
    Free said:

    If Bernie had any questionable deals and behavior, something Hilary has shown and proven multiple times, he should and would have been questioned as should be. But that's what people like about him: he's more trustworthy and reliable, and full of integrity, so much more than your candidate and you are NOT questioning her. Which is why I'm questioning all Hillary supporters for not questioning her. Her shadiness is all out there in the open. And her supporters do not question it. There is something seriously wrong with that and says a lot about the American citizen.
    Um, her supporters clearly question it given her unfavorability polling...
  • unsung said:

    No more foreign aid.
    Lol you think that will get Mexico to pay for a wall that's funny ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Im not voting Trump but I believe there is more hatred for Clinton and more dumb down voters to give Trump the WH , I believe he will be president I'm just basing it on gut feeling than anything else !!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    It's addition through subtraction.

    They'll pay. They might not be writing the check, but they'll pay.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited September 2016

    it's not blind. most people have openly admitted she is not ideal and she creates trust issues are asking questions. but what trump will do is potentially FAR WORSE than what she will do. it's unfortunately the lesser of two evils here.
    I'm talking about those who have not "openly admitted she is not ideal and she creates trust issues". Those who have been only acted as apologists.
    Post edited by Free on
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited September 2016

    Um, her supporters clearly question it given her unfavorability polling...
    Point to where her supporters question her on this forum.
    Post edited by Free on
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,590
    unsung said:

    No more foreign aid.
    No. That is not how Trump thinks Mexico will pay for his fake wall.

    This is how he thinks Mexico will pay for his fake wall. The article also tells you why it absolutely will not work:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-would-seek-to-block-money-transfers-to-force-mexico-to-fund-border-wall/2016/04/05/c0196314-fa7c-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html
    www.myspace.com
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,875
    Free said:

    If Bernie had any questionable deals and behavior, something Hilary has shown and proven multiple times, he should and would have been questioned as should be. But that's what people like about him: he's more trustworthy and reliable, and full of integrity, so much more than your candidate and you are NOT questioning her. Which is why I'm questioning all Hillary supporters for not questioning her. Her shadiness is all out there in the open. And her supporters do not question it. There is something seriously wrong with that and says a lot about the American citizen.
    Bernie had questionable policies, ones that were fraught with economic fantasy land scenarios. For me, that's more important than DWS or Goldman speeches. See? Different priorities.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487

    No. That is not how Trump thinks Mexico will pay for his fake wall.

    This is how he thinks Mexico will pay for his fake wall. The article also tells you why it absolutely will not work:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-would-seek-to-block-money-transfers-to-force-mexico-to-fund-border-wall/2016/04/05/c0196314-fa7c-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html
    I'm just saying there's a way. It's stupid to think there isnt.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,121
    Free said:

    I'm talking about those who have not "openly admitted she is not ideal and she creates trust issues". Those who have been only acted as apologists.
    She beat Sanders....
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    edited September 2016

    She beat Sanders....
    Corrected.

    Post edited by Kat on
  • KatKat Posts: 4,954
    .No, don't change someone else's words when using the quote feature. You can respond and politely disagree or add your own thoughts but no editing someone else's words. Google includes everything here and only someone's own words should be gathered. Thank you.
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,121
    unsung said:

    Corrected.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_vote_count.html

    yep....by 4 million votes
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,642
    edited September 2016
    Free said:

    I am not making personal insults so calm down. Seriously, why are Hillary supporters unable to look at her objectively and address the very real concerns as a Concerned Citizen and not a Hillary apologist BEFORE the election????? What's the beef and what do you guys think you're getting for deflecting each and every downfall she has? We know no one has that problem with Drumpf!

    How about you stop harassing everyone about how they don't display the same level of outrage as you do? It's not doing anything for this thread or the discussion in general. It's not like everyone is oblivious to the facts, as you appear to believe. They are perfectly capable of looking at her objectively. Most, be they Hillary supporters or not (and I think most here actually aren't, they just think she's better than Trump, which I think is obvious), simply aren't reacting the same way as you are, and they are under no obligation to. If Hillary is clearly the best option out of two bad choices, then what is the point of actively railing against her during the campaign the way you are? I think most people understand the issues, and will be watching to see what she does. I am not sure what else you expect from people. I have no idea who you think these apologists are btw. I feel like you've kind of made them up in your own head.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,121
    Free said:

    I'm talking about those who have not "openly admitted she is not ideal and she creates trust issues". Those who have been only acted as apologists.
    Do you really keep tabs on which of us have "openly admitted" or not?

    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,875

    Do you really keep tabs on which of us have "openly admitted" or not?

    Gern - it's your obligation to care about precisely what Free cares about, at or exceeding the level at which Free cares. This should all be perfectly clear to you at this point.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,907
    edited September 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    You are correct that in some ways, an automotive company is similar to a bank (although GM spun off GMAC financing into Ally Bank a few years ago). But they are structured in similar ways and have similar issues. Without getting into the details, I supported both bailouts. And I did so for overlapping reasons. (Disclaimer: During 2008 crisis, I was in senior management at a large bank. We took TARP money because we were forced to do so by the government. The gov made solvent banks take TARP as well so the market didn't destroy the ones that were distressed... different argument though. But anyway, my perspective may be different than others.)

    So I supported both bailouts. The reason I supported GM was because of all the people that were employed or connected to GM through the supply chain (truck drivers, parts makers, dealerships, etc.). The resulting unemployment, particularly in the Midwest, would have been fairly substantial and worsened an already sick economy. So the government bought preferred shares of GM (rather than just loaning $, creating more debt for them) and GM recovered. Now we taxpayers lost probably 10 billion on that deal after the government sold its shares, but that's far less than it probably would have paid in unemployment, lost taxes (personal and business), lower GDP, etc. So in all, I think it was a wise thing to do. And think of how many families that the small 10 billion investment saved.

    TARP - this is the one people had a bigger problem with, but to me it was essentially the same concept, but the ramifications would have been far worse. Regardless of whose fault it was (that's a whole different discussion), the reality is that Bank provide two essential services in this country. First, they provide not only loans for cars, homes, etc, but they provide essential small business loans that are used to keep these companies afloat through payroll, through slow pay of clients etc. Second, the top six banks in the US employ 800K people. 98% of these people are just like you and me. They are middle class, and earn between 40 and 100k per year. If these banks had failed, how many middle class families would have suffered the same fate as GM families? Untold amounts, particularly since it wasn't the Chase and Citi's that really needed TARP, it was all the regional and second tier banks. And if the gov't let them fail, would the Jamie Dimon (Chase) or Ken Lewis (BAC) be hurt? Hell no. They are ungodly rich already. Letting the banks fail hurts middle class employees, not the C class.
    And then you let the banks fail. Then what? Then the credit market tightens because there is more competition for %, so interest rates raise. Who gets hurt there? Consumers and small business's that can't afford the double digit rates. So small businesses close because they can't float their receivable, or can't pay employees. It's a reverberating effect.

    And what was the final cost of TARP? Officially the taxpayers made about 15 billion but I suspect it was an even trade because of value of the dollar and inflation. Either way, both investments were wise to me. They were not pure capitalistic, but in many ways humanitarian.

    Sorry so long Benjs, but this is something I have thought about for many years.
    very nice summation. without those 2 bailouts the residual effects would have been devastating. it really shouldn't be hard for people to understand this.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,121
    mrussel1 said:

    Gern - it's your obligation to care about precisely what Free cares about, at or exceeding the level at which Free cares. This should all be perfectly clear to you at this point.
    You just proved my point! :)
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • PJ_Soul said:

    How about you stop harassing everyone about how they don't display the same level of outrage as you do? It's not doing anything for this thread or the discussion in general. It's not like everyone is oblivious to the facts, as you appear to believe. They are perfectly capable of looking at her objectively. Most, be they Hillary supporters or not (and I think most here actually aren't, they just think she's better than Trump, which I think is obvious), simply aren't reacting the same way as you are, and they are under no obligation to. If Hillary is clearly the best option out of two bad choices, then what is the point of actively railing against her during the campaign the way you are? I think most people understand the issues, and will be watching to see what she does. I am not sure what else you expect from people. I have no idea who you think these apologists are btw. I feel like you've kind of made them up in your own head.
    That's how it seems to be I'm not sure what he would like for someone like me to do , I know for sure I'm not voting for Trump ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Free said:

    You have not questioned Clinton's actions here, not once and 100% defended Hillary. Leading me to believe you are blindly following. Understand?

    What is it you want me to answer?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,022


    "Repeating what I told you in person. Mexico will never pay for a wall"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,642
    edited September 2016
    Oh yeah, right, I almost forgot that this thread is about Trump and not how everybody is a Hillary apologist, haha.
    I have read about Trump's rapeiness many times over the past several months. I think it's pretty clear that he is a RAGING misogynist, like one of the worst I have ever seen in my whole life actually, which I find very disturbing because so many millions seem not to care about that at all. I think it's actually a worse thing than all the racial stuff, because with that I don't think he is actually a racist - he is just taking advantage of the racism of his supporters. I do, however, 100% believe that he is a sexist on a grand scale, and in one of the creepiest ways possible. It doesn't surprise me one bit that Trump's sexual actions are "questionable" at best when it comes to some of the women who have been stuck in his path.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,121



    "Repeating what I told you in person. Mexico will never pay for a wall"
    Trump should have a great response....can't wait
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_vote_count.html

    yep....by 4 million votes
    Cheated.

    Or did the DNC Chair just quit and work for HRC for fun?
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487

    Trump should have a great response....can't wait
    Then he can cut all foreign aid to Mexico until that pays for it.

    Good Luck with the Cartels.

    Maybe he can raise the taxes on calling cards and fees on wire transfers there too.
  • unsung said:

    Cheated.

    Or did the DNC Chair just quit and work for HRC for fun?
    Not one person voted for Hilary over Bernie because of what DWS did. Let alone 4 million.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    So she resigned for fun?
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,022
    edited September 2016
    unsung said:

    Then he can cut all foreign aid to Mexico until that pays for it.

    Good Luck with the Cartels.

    Maybe he can raise the taxes on calling cards and fees on wire transfers there too.
    And what happens in our country if the cartels go crazy?

    Considering El Chapo "escaped" to restore order, it's amazing it hasn't already gotten out of control since he's been taken back into custody
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,478

    And what happens in our country if the cartels go crazy?

    Nothing, obviously the wall will keep all the bad people out. Because it will be the most beautiful, greatest wall ever..believe me....it's gonna be uuuuugggeee!
This discussion has been closed.