Kaepernick

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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996
    PJPOWER said:

    I do not base my feelings on infinitives like "all" or "none" or "everyone" or "everything". I think there are circumstances and choices that lead to positive or negative results. I do not believe that there is some conspiracy that the police force has against black people. Equal opportunity...I lived in a small town growing up and did not have the same or "equal" opportunities that those living in the city had...and vise versa. We all have different standards and beliefs and skills that keep all of us from being treated as "equals" in different aspects of society. I believe this utopian idea that everyone some day will magically live like kings and not face hurdles or hardships or judgement for their actions is completely unrealistic. I also believe that the media and politicians are hyping up racial tensions for higher ratings/votes. I believe that Kaepernick is or will be just another pawn for one of the above.
    This is a very narrow view of our society and history

    No one is asking for a utopian society
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited August 2016

    This is a very narrow view of our society and history

    No one is asking for a utopian society
    Narrow view? Narrow view would be basing your feelings on the terms of infinitives such as "all" or "none"...or "no one" as you just stated. "Some" people do have a crazy utopian initiative and others are a bit more realistic.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • I don't understand how these two things are at all similar. They are actually the opposite.
    Come on, man.

    Kap should get behind his beliefs. If you feel that strongly about them... then walk the walk- which Tillman did.

    The only think Kap did was spit on the memories of dead young men buried oversead that never had a chance to grow into men... while earning millions of dollars on the backs of their efforts.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Empty GlassEmpty Glass In Rob's shed Posts: 12,329
    I believe Tillman would walk over to the bench and yank Kap off the bench.

    Protest black on black crime. Have that stopped. We stop all the inner city violence, I believe we'd have less of these "inequalities"
    I've met Rob

    DEGENERATE FUK

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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996
    edited August 2016

    Come on, man.

    Kap should get behind his beliefs. If you feel that strongly about them... then walk the walk- which Tillman did.

    The only think Kap did was spit on the memories of dead young men buried oversead that never had a chance to grow into men... while earning millions of dollars on the backs of their efforts.

    Come on, man.

    Kap should get behind his beliefs. If you feel that strongly about them... then walk the walk- which Tillman did.

    The only think Kap did was spit on the memories of dead young men buried oversead that never had a chance to grow into men... while earning millions of dollars on the backs of their efforts.
    That's such utter nonsense. He very clearly articulated his position on the military.

    And again, Pat Tillman would be the first person defending him.
    Post edited by Cliffy6745 on
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    Is it up to you to tell people how they should perceive the flag and the anthem? Why are they confused? You're argument is that people are too dumb to know the difference. My argument is CK is too dumb to deliver his message.
    Didn't he specifically say that he respects the sacrifice of veterans? Then people say it's offensive to veterans and you say he's the one making dumb statements?
    Ok!
    :dizzy:
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996
    “I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    Come on, man.

    Kap should get behind his beliefs. If you feel that strongly about them... then walk the walk- which Tillman did.

    The only think Kap did was spit on the memories of dead young men buried oversead that never had a chance to grow into men... while earning millions of dollars on the backs of their efforts.
    Utter nonsense
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • “I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

    Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

    What was your term? Utter nonsense?

    You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996

    Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

    What was your term? Utter nonsense?

    You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.
    lol
  • rgambs said:

    Utter nonsense
    No kidding eh? I mean... I know his shit behaviour ultimately ended up as some form of support for the cause you've got both feet firmly entrenched in- so objectivity is hardly within reach for you- but you're right... Kap's behaviour was utter nonsense.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996
    Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful

    Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful

  • lol
    Laugh all you want. You're out of your mind if you're thinking Kap came off as admirable.

    And really, you shouldn't be surprised at his behaviour. It's well known he's one of the most despised players in the NFL. He's not hated for his political beliefs... he's hated because he's an idiot: which was on full display for this event.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996

    Laugh all you want. You're out of your mind if you're thinking Kap came off as admirable.

    And really, you shouldn't be surprised at his behaviour. It's well known he's one of the most despised players in the NFL. He's not hated for his political beliefs... he's hated because he's an idiot: which was on full display for this event.
    I couldn't give half a fuck about the person. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether this is him, Carlos Delgado, a D league basketball player, or any fan in attendance. I am comfortable with any American expressing their beliefs peacefully so long as they can clearly articulate their position and what their goals are and said positions are reasonable.
  • Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful

    Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful

    No. Person number one is highly disrespectful. Is that what your argument is coming to? Suggesting everyone standing for the national anthem isn't paying a moment's respect before the event they've been afforded?

    I'm not even from the US. It really isn't even my place to stand and respect the national anthem, but I do and I tell my kids why we do it. It isn't to get behind disappointing, recent foreign policies... it's to acknowledge the grey haired guy in the wheelchair and pay respect.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

    What was your term? Utter nonsense?

    You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.
    So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
    We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • I couldn't give half a fuck about the person. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether this is him, Carlos Delgado, a D league basketball player, or any fan in attendance. I am comfortable with any American expressing their beliefs peacefully so long as they can clearly articulate their position and what their goals are and said positions are reasonable.
    In the proper context... absolutely!

    For example, choosing a wake to tell everyone the deceased was a prick would not be a fantastic context to express your beliefs. Just like choosing the national anthem to get behind BLM isn't either.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996

    No. Person number one is highly disrespectful. Is that what your argument is coming to? Suggesting everyone standing for the national anthem isn't paying a moment's respect before the event they've been afforded?

    I'm not even from the US. It really isn't even my place to stand and respect the national anthem, but I do and I tell my kids why we do it. It isn't to get behind disappointing, recent foreign policies... it's to acknowledge the grey haired guy in the wheelchair and pay respect.
    Ahh, yes, I am suggesting that a good portion of people at every game are standing out of mindless habit..

    Except it's not just that. Perhaps that's a portion of it, but it is a tribute to the country and if someone feels that country is not living up to it's standard, be my guest to make your statement.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    I didn't even realize Kap was protesting. I thought he was just practicing really hard for his role this upcoming season.

    Agree with those who say he has a right to protest, people have a right to criticize and the team has a right to move him from the bench to the street. I personally am not bothered by people not standing, not taking off their hats, not putting their hand over their hearts, not singing, etc... Hell, I usually reserve my singing for the Canadian national anthem during Sounders soccer games when we play Vancouver, Portland or Montreal. I just like the tune better.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • rgambs said:

    So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
    We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

    Oh my Gawd.

    I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Ahh, yes, I am suggesting that a good portion of people at every game are standing out of mindless habit..

    Except it's not just that. Perhaps that's a portion of it, but it is a tribute to the country and if someone feels that country is not living up to it's standard, be my guest to make your statement.
    So... only pay tribute to your country when times are good?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    rgambs said:

    Didn't he specifically say that he respects the sacrifice of veterans? Then people say it's offensive to veterans and you say he's the one making dumb statements?
    Ok!
    :dizzy:
    I didn't say he made a dumb statement about the military. I said he was too stupid to deliver his message in a way that he intended.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996
    I will also note that I never said he was admirable. I think his cause is real and I think he has every right to express his opinion the way he did. I also don't think he was being mildly disrespectful to anyone in the military, past or present. If you want to take that as admirable, be my guest.
  • jeffbr said:

    I didn't even realize Kap was protesting. I thought he was just practicing really hard for his role this upcoming season.

    Agree with those who say he has a right to protest, people have a right to criticize and the team has a right to move him from the bench to the street. I personally am not bothered by people not standing, not taking off their hats, not putting their hand over their hearts, not singing, etc... Hell, I usually reserve my singing for the Canadian national anthem during Sounders soccer games when we play Vancouver, Portland or Montreal. I just like the tune better.

    He's not even going to have that role. He will get cut and I can almost guarantee their won't be a team picking him up.

    If he becomes the inspired activist- with all his assets and free time- that he has many believing he is... I'll eat my words. Until such a time, I'll continue to stand behind them (whether right or wrong).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    I just can't believe people give a fuck what a back up qb on a horrible team does.

    He's got the right to do that. People have the right to be pjssed. Not really too much to discuss. I think Colin was a bit surprised by how his actions were perceived by the public. It came off as anti-military. I know that's not what he meant, but many people are seeing it that way. I think it may be best for him to stay in the locker room I during the national anthem. Let's be honest, is him sitting during the anthem really going to bring one ounce of awareness to black lives?

    agreed ! if the media hadn't mentioned it nobody would have even noticed, this guy to me is just some kid who's enjoying the attention he probably didn't get as a football player.....but I have a feeling his career is winding down anyway.

    Godfather.

  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    For those of you, like Brian, that live near the bay area, has Kap been vocal about this prior to his statement of injustice? The entire thing seems contrived and insincere and not at all well thought out.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996

    So... only pay tribute to your country when times are good?
    I don't know the answer to this, honestly. If someone feels the country is doing a great disservice to a group of people that you identify with, sure, protest as often and as long as you see fit.

    I serve on a board that serves underprivileged youth. It is no coincidence that the significant majority of our dollars serve minorities. This is a problem. I am fine with attention being drawn to this problem.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177

    He's not even going to have that role. He will get cut and I can almost guarantee their won't be a team picking him up.

    If he becomes the inspired activist- with all his assets and free time- that he has many believing he is... I'll eat my words. Until such a time, I'll continue to stand behind them (whether right or wrong).
    Oh, I don't believe for a second that Mr. Kaepernick was making any well-thought out statement by sitting. I think he is petulant, and was just trying to call attention to himself, since he wouldn't be able to do that on the football field. It was a last gasp for publicity. Being a Seahawks fan, I've always thought of him as an asshat.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • I will also note that I never said he was admirable. I think his cause is real and I think he has every right to express his opinion the way he did. I also don't think he was being mildly disrespectful to anyone in the military, past or present. If you want to take that as admirable, be my guest.

    Well forgive me. You did seem to be saying something about him that wasn't exactly critical.

    Is a sports figure center stage the only person with a license to express themselves the way they want? What if half the crowd wants to sit in protest as well? Is anything worthy of a collective level of respect? Or has it simply come down to choices which everyone is free to make for themselves regardless of any circumstances?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    Oh my Gawd.

    I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.
    No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it".
    Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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