Kaepernick

pjhawks

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

freedom of speech gives you the right to say something, it doesn't mean you can't be criticized or questioned about said speech. No one is advocating that Kaepernick doesn't have to right to protest it in this manner.

Gern Blansten

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

freedom of speech gives you the right to say something, it doesn't mean you can't be criticized or questioned about said speech. No one is advocating that Kaepernick doesn't have to right to protest it in this manner.

Yeah I realize that. But generally the people that are criticizing him are the same ones that complain about people ignoring the constitution....while they ignore the constitution.

hedonist

Degeneratefk said:

I just can't believe people give a fuck what a back up qb on a horrible team does.

He's got the right to do that. People have the right to be pjssed. Not really too much to discuss. I think Colin was a bit surprised by how his actions were perceived by the public. It came off as anti-military. I know that's not what he meant, but many people are seeing it that way. I think it may be best for him to stay in the locker room I during the national anthem. Let's be honest, is him sitting during the anthem really going to bring one ounce of awareness to black lives?

Agree with this in most parts.

It's odd how this is happening right after the Olympics, where it's about flags and pride and "rah rah-ing" for certain countries, and who will win the most for their country. That kind of patriotism is welcomed, but that damned anthem!

McCready does a beautiful version of it. Slash too. And so did Jimi.

Anyway, interesting discussion.

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

I don't think he is "anti-American" but he certainly has issues with the country which would take him out of the "rah rah America" camp...

I don't understand how standing through a national anthem can be considered a form of protest. I couldn't care less if he gets cut or not. It's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant to you. I guarantee there will be riots if he gets cut. Can already see all of the dumbasses crying that he was "oppressed" or the victim of racism because he got cut for bringing negativity to the team's image. Regardless, it has obviously been a successful protest in that he has gained media attention and started a conversation. I, personally, just think it's totally ridiculous and definitely do not align with his message or methods. I think it will just end with more hate being perpetuated from black and white people alike...I guess time will tell.

eddiec

hedonist said:

Degeneratefk said:

I just can't believe people give a fuck what a back up qb on a horrible team does.

He's got the right to do that. People have the right to be pjssed. Not really too much to discuss. I think Colin was a bit surprised by how his actions were perceived by the public. It came off as anti-military. I know that's not what he meant, but many people are seeing it that way. I think it may be best for him to stay in the locker room I during the national anthem. Let's be honest, is him sitting during the anthem really going to bring one ounce of awareness to black lives?

Agree with this in most parts.

It's odd how this is happening right after the Olympics, where it's about flags and pride and "rah rah-ing" for certain countries, and who will win the most for their country. That kind of patriotism is welcomed, but that damned anthem!

McCready does a beautiful version of it. Slash too. And so did Jimi.

Anyway, interesting discussion.

Funny you bring up the Olympics. So many people had their knickers in a twist over Gabby Douglas. I guess they didn't see Kaepernick coming.

OnWis97

I always find this stuff funny as it relates to political correctness (PC).

As far as I can tell, we have gotten far too sensitive. People need to stop being offended by everything.

Well, unless someone does not show "proper respect" for patriotic/nationalistic/jingoistic gestures. Then we are supposed to lose our minds.

You run-of-the-mill "anti-PC warrior": "I am soooooo sick of political correctness people getting offended by everything. Unless it is something offends me. People should not do/say things that offend me. Those are different."

Time to stop being so sensitive.

Cliffy6745

OnWis97 said:

I always find this stuff funny as it relates to political correctness (PC).

As far as I can tell, we have gotten far too sensitive. People need to stop being offended by everything.

Well, unless someone does not show "proper respect" for patriotic/nationalistic/jingoistic gestures. Then we are supposed to lose our minds.

You run-of-the-mill "anti-PC warrior": "I am soooooo sick of political correctness people getting offended by everything. Unless it is something offends me. People should not do/say things that offend me. Those are different."

Time to stop being so sensitive.

This is good

Cliffy6745

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

I don't think he is "anti-American" but he certainly has issues with the country which would take him out of the "rah rah America" camp...

I don't understand how standing through a national anthem can be considered a form of protest. I couldn't care less if he gets cut or not. It's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant to you. I guarantee there will be riots if he gets cut. Can already see all of the dumbasses crying that he was "oppressed" or the victim of racism because he got cut for bringing negativity to the team's image. Regardless, it has obviously been a successful protest in that he has gained media attention and started a conversation. I, personally, just think it's totally ridiculous and definitely do not align with his message or methods. I think it will just end with more hate being perpetuated from black and white people alike...I guess time will tell.

So you feel that all people in this country are treated equally and have the same opportunities?

Degeneratefk

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

Is it up to you to tell people how they should perceive the flag and the anthem? Why are they confused? You're argument is that people are too dumb to know the difference. My argument is CK is too dumb to deliver his message.

Cliffy6745

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

Is it up to you to tell people how they should perceive the flag and the anthem? Why are they confused? You're argument is that people are too dumb to know the difference. My argument is CK is too dumb to deliver his message.

I don't think there is anything dumb about how he expressed himself, delivered his message or brought attention to an issue facing this country. What dumb comments did he make?

Degeneratefk

eddiec said:

hedonist said:

Degeneratefk said:

I just can't believe people give a fuck what a back up qb on a horrible team does.

He's got the right to do that. People have the right to be pjssed. Not really too much to discuss. I think Colin was a bit surprised by how his actions were perceived by the public. It came off as anti-military. I know that's not what he meant, but many people are seeing it that way. I think it may be best for him to stay in the locker room I during the national anthem. Let's be honest, is him sitting during the anthem really going to bring one ounce of awareness to black lives?

Agree with this in most parts.

It's odd how this is happening right after the Olympics, where it's about flags and pride and "rah rah-ing" for certain countries, and who will win the most for their country. That kind of patriotism is welcomed, but that damned anthem!

McCready does a beautiful version of it. Slash too. And so did Jimi.

Anyway, interesting discussion.

Funny you bring up the Olympics. So many people had their knickers in a twist over Gabby Douglas. I guess they didn't see Kaepernick coming.

Hope solo lost her job for calling a country a coward during the olympics. Timing plays a huge part in this.

Indifference71

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

freedom of speech gives you the right to say something, it doesn't mean you can't be criticized or questioned about said speech. No one is advocating that Kaepernick doesn't have to right to protest it in this manner.

Exactly. It's OK for Kaepernick to do what he did. And it's OK for people to not like what he did.

Degeneratefk

Indifference71 said:

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

freedom of speech gives you the right to say something, it doesn't mean you can't be criticized or questioned about said speech. No one is advocating that Kaepernick doesn't have to right to protest it in this manner.

Exactly. It's OK for Kaepernick to do what he did. And it's OK for people to not like what he did.

And it's ok for the 49ers to fire him if they so choose for this.

Cliffy6745

Degeneratefk said:

Indifference71 said:

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

freedom of speech gives you the right to say something, it doesn't mean you can't be criticized or questioned about said speech. No one is advocating that Kaepernick doesn't have to right to protest it in this manner.

Exactly. It's OK for Kaepernick to do what he did. And it's OK for people to not like what he did.

And it's ok for the 49ers to fire him if they so choose for this.

Of course it is. No one has argued otherwise...

Degeneratefk

Cliffy6745 said:

Degeneratefk said:

Indifference71 said:

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

freedom of speech gives you the right to say something, it doesn't mean you can't be criticized or questioned about said speech. No one is advocating that Kaepernick doesn't have to right to protest it in this manner.

Exactly. It's OK for Kaepernick to do what he did. And it's OK for people to not like what he did.

And it's ok for the 49ers to fire him if they so choose for this.

Of course it is. No one has argued otherwise...

No, but in the context of this thread where at least 2 posters have stated 1) that people were "arm chair warriors" and 2) people would riot if he did get cut, it's relevant.

eddiec

Cliffy6745 said:

Degeneratefk said:

Indifference71 said:

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

freedom of speech gives you the right to say something, it doesn't mean you can't be criticized or questioned about said speech. No one is advocating that Kaepernick doesn't have to right to protest it in this manner.

Exactly. It's OK for Kaepernick to do what he did. And it's OK for people to not like what he did.

And it's ok for the 49ers to fire him if they so choose for this.

Of course it is. No one has argued otherwise...

And he'll end up as the Viking's starter now that Bridgewater is out.

Cliffy6745

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/31/sports/football/colin-kaepernicks-anthem-protest-underlines-union-of-sports-and-patriotism.html

OnWis97

eddiec said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Degeneratefk said:

Indifference71 said:

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

freedom of speech gives you the right to say something, it doesn't mean you can't be criticized or questioned about said speech. No one is advocating that Kaepernick doesn't have to right to protest it in this manner.

Exactly. It's OK for Kaepernick to do what he did. And it's OK for people to not like what he did.

And it's ok for the 49ers to fire him if they so choose for this.

Of course it is. No one has argued otherwise...

And he'll end up as the Viking's starter now that Bridgewater is out.

Not likely just given his contract alone. The Vikings are probably among the teams most afraid of the big "D" (Distraction). And that's saying a lot in the NFL. They may have cut a punter for being to vocal about gay rights. There is no way they are bring this guy in.

Jason P

Kap was a distraction to the 49ers before this and it was said he was alienated by the rest of the team, so I don't see the Vikings bringing him into the fold. I would try to bring Kyle Orton out of retirement before going after Kap.

eddiec

Cliffy6745 said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/31/sports/football/colin-kaepernicks-anthem-protest-underlines-union-of-sports-and-patriotism.html

The NFL has mastered the art of forced patriotism.

You are considered patriotic in America if you:

1- Go on social media and proclaim that the President is a piece of shit.
2- Jerk off daily to Tomi Lahren
3- Own more than 1 gun

OnWis97

One thing Kaepernick should have realized is that while what he did has a ton of nuance and, with critical thought, can be the impetus for important discussions, there is no room for critical thought or nuance here. Knee-jerk is the only way. If he's surprised by the reaction, then he's a little tone-deaf to how Americans (particularly NFL fans) react to any perceived slight to the idea that America is #1. He's now public enemy number 1 in a league with enough rap sheets to wallpaper the locker room.

Jason P

If you get political in sports, you are ostracized and lose your brand appeal (see: Curt Shilling). I hope Kap is putting the $11M he makes this year into a savings plan.

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

I don't think he is "anti-American" but he certainly has issues with the country which would take him out of the "rah rah America" camp...

I don't understand how standing through a national anthem can be considered a form of protest. I couldn't care less if he gets cut or not. It's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant to you. I guarantee there will be riots if he gets cut. Can already see all of the dumbasses crying that he was "oppressed" or the victim of racism because he got cut for bringing negativity to the team's image. Regardless, it has obviously been a successful protest in that he has gained media attention and started a conversation. I, personally, just think it's totally ridiculous and definitely do not align with his message or methods. I think it will just end with more hate being perpetuated from black and white people alike...I guess time will tell.

So you feel that all people in this country are treated equally and have the same opportunities?

I do not base my feelings on infinitives like "all" or "none" or "everyone" or "everything". I think there are circumstances and choices that lead to positive or negative results. I do not believe that there is some conspiracy that the police force has against black people. Equal opportunity...I lived in a small town growing up and did not have the same or "equal" opportunities that those living in the city had...and vise versa. We all have different standards and beliefs and skills that keep all of us from being treated as "equals" in different aspects of society. I believe this utopian idea that everyone some day will magically live like kings and not face hurdles or hardships or judgement for their actions is completely unrealistic. I also believe that the media and politicians are hyping up racial tensions for higher ratings/votes. I believe that Kaepernick is or will be just another pawn for one of the above.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I'm not religious, but by the same arguments some make here... it would be okay to walk into church wearing a hat, yellow armpit drained white muscle shirt, cut a bunch of farts, and yap incessantly while the pastor tries to issue his sermon?

There's just some things people do out of respect. Are people here thinking Kap is worthy of respect for showing none?

He's been a member of privilege- privileged by the same system he scorned. Pat Tillman walked the walk. If Kap wants to get serious... then walk away from the sport and get busy. He's an idiot. And one of the highest order. Pure and simple.

PJPOWER

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not religious, but by the same arguments some make here... it would be okay to walk into church wearing a hat, yellow armpit drained white muscle shirt, cut a bunch of farts, and yap incessantly while the pastor tries to issue his sermon?

There's just some things people do out of respect. Are people here thinking Kap is worthy of respect for showing none?

He's been a member of privilege- privileged by the same system he scorned. Pat Tillman walked the walk. If Kap wants to get serious... then walk away from the sport and get busy. He's an idiot. And one of the highest order. Pure and simple.

Agreed!

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not religious, but by the same arguments some make here... it would be okay to walk into church wearing a hat, yellow armpit drained white muscle shirt, cut a bunch of farts, and yap incessantly while the pastor tries to issue his sermon?

There's just some things people do out of respect. Are people here thinking Kap is worthy of respect for showing none?

He's been a member of privilege- privileged by the same system he scorned. Pat Tillman walked the walk. If Kap wants to get serious... then walk away from the sport and get busy. He's an idiot. And one of the highest order. Pure and simple.

I don't understand how these two things are at all similar. They are actually the opposite.

Cliffy6745

So everyone who has an issue with something should just join the army or police? You shouldn't express your opinion on anything?

Cliffy6745

Bringing up Pat Tillman is actually a perfect example. If Pat Tillman were alive today, I am pretty confident he would be the first person defending Kaepernick.

F Me In The Brain

Stefan would have liked this thread.

blumestefan
blumestefan Posts: 95
September 2014 Flag
have you anything to help in the case ?

If yes you are welcome, if not please do not comment...

Thanks 

Empty Glass

He didn't want to protest when he was a starter? My opinion, protesters have a more "look at me" than wanting to actually solving the problem they are protesting for.

I always love the "America sucks crew". If it sucks, why are you here?