Kaepernick

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Edit: And I personally thought what he had to say on the topic was pretty well thought out.

yes they did. they fought, they didn't sit on a bench. that's kind of the point right? as i said personally i think its disrespectful to those who fought for those freedoms. that's just my opinion and i know and respect that others don't necessarily share it. I agree his words on the topic were well thought out i just disagree with the action he is taking. these athletes do a lot of talking on social subjects yet never actually do anything.

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

I don't think he is "anti-American" but he certainly has issues with the country which would take him out of the "rah rah America" camp...

I don't understand how standing through a national anthem can be considered a form of protest. I couldn't care less if he gets cut or not. It's irrelevant.

pjhawks said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Edit: And I personally thought what he had to say on the topic was pretty well thought out.

yes they did. they fought, they didn't sit on a bench. that's kind of the point right? as i said personally i think its disrespectful to those who fought for those freedoms. that's just my opinion and i know and respect that others don't necessarily share it. I agree his words on the topic were well thought out i just disagree with the action he is taking. these athletes do a lot of talking on social subjects yet never actually do anything.

I guess...I don't completely follow. They fought to protect the 1st amendment, so he shouldn't exercise his 1st amendment? I guess I just don't get the disrespectful aspect thing of this because what he is protesting has nothing to do with troops and has everything to do with how he feels about the current climate in the country.

This is pretty good stuff. Obviously plenty of veterans on the other side of this, I'm sure, but pretty powerful stuff

http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/08/us-veterans-rally-around-colin-kaepernick-using-veteransforkaepernick-twitter

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

I completely agree.

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

freedom of speech gives you the right to say something, it doesn't mean you can't be criticized or questioned about said speech. No one is advocating that Kaepernick doesn't have to right to protest it in this manner.

Yeah I realize that. But generally the people that are criticizing him are the same ones that complain about people ignoring the constitution....while they ignore the constitution.

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

I don't think he is "anti-American" but he certainly has issues with the country which would take him out of the "rah rah America" camp...

I don't understand how standing through a national anthem can be considered a form of protest. I couldn't care less if he gets cut or not. It's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant to you. I guarantee there will be riots if he gets cut. Can already see all of the dumbasses crying that he was "oppressed" or the victim of racism because he got cut for bringing negativity to the team's image. Regardless, it has obviously been a successful protest in that he has gained media attention and started a conversation. I, personally, just think it's totally ridiculous and definitely do not align with his message or methods. I think it will just end with more hate being perpetuated from black and white people alike...I guess time will tell.

I always find this stuff funny as it relates to political correctness (PC).

As far as I can tell, we have gotten far too sensitive. People need to stop being offended by everything.

Well, unless someone does not show "proper respect" for patriotic/nationalistic/jingoistic gestures. Then we are supposed to lose our minds.

You run-of-the-mill "anti-PC warrior": "I am soooooo sick of political correctness people getting offended by everything. Unless it is something offends me. People should not do/say things that offend me. Those are different."

Time to stop being so sensitive.

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

I don't think he is "anti-American" but he certainly has issues with the country which would take him out of the "rah rah America" camp...

I don't understand how standing through a national anthem can be considered a form of protest. I couldn't care less if he gets cut or not. It's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant to you. I guarantee there will be riots if he gets cut. Can already see all of the dumbasses crying that he was "oppressed" or the victim of racism because he got cut for bringing negativity to the team's image. Regardless, it has obviously been a successful protest in that he has gained media attention and started a conversation. I, personally, just think it's totally ridiculous and definitely do not align with his message or methods. I think it will just end with more hate being perpetuated from black and white people alike...I guess time will tell.

So you feel that all people in this country are treated equally and have the same opportunities?

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

Is it up to you to tell people how they should perceive the flag and the anthem? Why are they confused? You're argument is that people are too dumb to know the difference. My argument is CK is too dumb to deliver his message.

I don't think there is anything dumb about how he expressed himself, delivered his message or brought attention to an issue facing this country. What dumb comments did he make?