Bernie Sanders

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

I didn't agree that the mindless TV people will just mute and eat cheezy-poofs. Are you kidding? Trump's antics are exactly what those people live for! It's the ultimate reality TV show, featuring everyone's favorite reality TV celebrity. The uninformed voters are exactly who will eat this shit up and Trump knows it. That is why he is 100% playing to the lowest common denominator. He has a rapt audience in these people. And they love to vote for their favorite reality TV stars. You should see all the votes that they send into American Idol.

That's why trump is going to lose in record breaking fashion.

Yes... as long as the left doesn't split too much.

The thing is though that the left has split itself into the new left and the new right. Bernie/Stein supporters on the left (or what I prefer to refer to as progressives) and Hillary supporters on the right (i.e. corporatologists).

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

I didn't agree that the mindless TV people will just mute and eat cheezy-poofs. Are you kidding? Trump's antics are exactly what those people live for! It's the ultimate reality TV show, featuring everyone's favorite reality TV celebrity. The uninformed voters are exactly who will eat this shit up and Trump knows it. That is why he is 100% playing to the lowest common denominator. He has a rapt audience in these people. And they love to vote for their favorite reality TV stars. You should see all the votes that they send into American Idol.

That's why trump is going to lose in record breaking fashion.

Yes... as long as the left doesn't split too much.

The thing is though that the left has split itself into the new left and the new right. Bernie/Stein supporters on the left (or what I prefer to refer to as progressives) and Hillary supporters on the right (i.e. corporatologists).

No offense, but these are your own made up categories that probably don't fit most people. 51% of US workers are employed with a company of 500+ people. And most companies greater than 50 will move to a corporate structure. So the vast majority of Americans pay their bills through the salary of a corporation. Second, I consider myself a progressive. I am pro environment, pro choice, pro LBGT rights, anti-NRA, pro progressive tax system, etc. But I also understand that we are no longer a nation of yeoman farmers as Jefferson had envisioned. So no offense, you don't get the right to split people into these neat little categories because the world is not as black and white as purists would like it to be.

I say this all with the kindest respect Brian, because I like you and think you contribute well to this forum.

No offense taken. I just call it as I see it and when I am wrong, I fully admit so. If I cause offense and it is pointed out, I humbly apologize.

But in this case, I think it would take a lot to convince me that fully supporting HRC would indicate a person leaning toward corporatology or at least fearful of fully embracing their own progressiveness. Hillary is not progressive. I don't see how you can support someone who gets away with dodging the law in her job the way she did and being fully linked to Big Money and call yourself a progressive. That just doesn't add up. And just because a majority (slim at that) of people are employed by corporations doesn't make that system correct. In fact, it is fairly proven to fail by the very fact that it keeps the average person in a form of servitude, rarely rewards the creative personality, secures the wealth and power of a tiny elite and generally results in a capitalistic corporate-tied manufacturing and consumption that is a major force in driving our environment to being unsuitable for humans and other animal species to continue living out our full species life expectancy. How can we support that kind of behavior? It's madness.

As far as what I get to do or not- when it comes to stating my position or beliefs- I do have that right... so far anyway. As do you! We should be thankful for that.

And thank you for your kind words which make for good, civil dialogue.

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

I didn't agree that the mindless TV people will just mute and eat cheezy-poofs. Are you kidding? Trump's antics are exactly what those people live for! It's the ultimate reality TV show, featuring everyone's favorite reality TV celebrity. The uninformed voters are exactly who will eat this shit up and Trump knows it. That is why he is 100% playing to the lowest common denominator. He has a rapt audience in these people. And they love to vote for their favorite reality TV stars. You should see all the votes that they send into American Idol.

That's why trump is going to lose in record breaking fashion.

Yes... as long as the left doesn't split too much.

It's scary, the left is eager for revolution (in a totally pie-eyed an naive way IMO) and it is setting the stage for Trump to come way too close.
People are "not worried about Trump" as though the Bush years never happened.

Trump will not be president. You watch.

I hope you are right, but I'm not sitting back and leaving the dirty work for someone else to do, I am wading into the mire and voting for Clinton. You can thank me in November for saving your ass and doing your dirty work for you lol

Not happening. Lol

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Judge as you will, plenty of people do it, doesn't make it right. If you want to vote based on fear, be my guest, so many people are, which says plenty about this country. I will never vote Hillary.

Well, like I said, I will do the dirty work that you dont have the stomach to do, and I will hope that there are enough pragmatists to carry the day and prevent a president Trump, while you actively campaign for him with your opposition to Clinton.

Your fear of there being a President Trump is mind-boggling.

Mind boggling because you dont think he would be a catastrophic president or because you dont think he stands a chance at winning?

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

I didn't agree that the mindless TV people will just mute and eat cheezy-poofs. Are you kidding? Trump's antics are exactly what those people live for! It's the ultimate reality TV show, featuring everyone's favorite reality TV celebrity. The uninformed voters are exactly who will eat this shit up and Trump knows it. That is why he is 100% playing to the lowest common denominator. He has a rapt audience in these people. And they love to vote for their favorite reality TV stars. You should see all the votes that they send into American Idol.

That's why trump is going to lose in record breaking fashion.

Yes... as long as the left doesn't split too much.

The thing is though that the left has split itself into the new left and the new right. Bernie/Stein supporters on the left (or what I prefer to refer to as progressives) and Hillary supporters on the right (i.e. corporatologists).

No offense, but these are your own made up categories that probably don't fit most people. 51% of US workers are employed with a company of 500+ people. And most companies greater than 50 will move to a corporate structure. So the vast majority of Americans pay their bills through the salary of a corporation. Second, I consider myself a progressive. I am pro environment, pro choice, pro LBGT rights, anti-NRA, pro progressive tax system, etc. But I also understand that we are no longer a nation of yeoman farmers as Jefferson had envisioned. So no offense, you don't get the right to split people into these neat little categories because the world is not as black and white as purists would like it to be.

I say this all with the kindest respect Brian, because I like you and think you contribute well to this forum.

No offense taken. I just call it as I see it and when I am wrong, I fully admit so. If I cause offense and it is pointed out, I humbly apologize.

But in this case, I think it would take a lot to convince me that fully supporting HRC would indicate a person leaning toward corporatology or at least fearful of fully embracing their own progressiveness. Hillary is not progressive. I don't see how you can support someone who gets away with dodging the law in her job the way she did and being fully linked to Big Money and call yourself a progressive. That just doesn't add up. And just because a majority (slim at that) of people are employed by corporations doesn't make that system correct. In fact, it is fairly proven to fail by the very fact that it keeps the average person in a form of servitude, rarely rewards the creative personality, secures the wealth and power of a tiny elite and generally results in a capitalistic corporate-tied manufacturing and consumption that is a major force in driving our environment to being unsuitable for humans and other animal species to continue living out our full species life expectancy. How can we support that kind of behavior? It's madness.

As far as what I get to do or not- when it comes to stating my position or beliefs- I do have that right... so far anyway. As do you! We should be thankful for that.

And thank you for your kind words which make for good, civil dialogue.

You use an interesting phrase... 'fully support', which I understand but do not agree with the statement. Because for me, elections are about choices. And right now we have two choices and it's very clear who is more progressive, whatever your definition of progressive is. And I would consider HRC a progressive, although admittedly not as liberal as Stein (thank God, who in my judgment is wholly unqualified to be a commander in chief) or Sanders. Is HRC my first choice? No, and that's for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with emails. But she is the best of what I have left to choose from, understanding the ramifications.

Regarding corporations, I would argue that corporations, on balance, have helped lift the quality of life in this country to heights never witnessed by mankind, for the MOST people (not all people and not just the elite). We have 401ks with matches, healthcare, dental, vision, paid vacations, PTO/sick leave, FMLA (which you in the small business world don't have to adhere to) and lots of other benefits never seen in human history. Does this mean it's perfect? No. Can it improve? Yes. Is that the definition of progress? Yes.

And this takes us back to my premise that an anthropocentric viewpoint is, in the long run, detrimental to both our species natural longevity and that of many other species. That's not to say that technology, which is the fuel of corporations, is in-of-itself a bad thing. Technology, for example, is being used to rapidly increase our understanding of biodiversity which is a key component in understanding how human impact is affecting overall diversity and health of life on the planet. But when technology is viewed strictly from a viewpoint of "what do we humans have to gain from it", without taking into consideration our impact on environment, we do ourselves in in the long run as a result. I think people like Stein (for sure) and Sanders (probably) understand these concept. I doubt someone like Hillary gives it much thought. I would go so far as to say the truly progressive mind set is informed by a biocentric viewpoint.