County Clerk released

See, we all have our reactions. I'd feel bad (actually never would've even ventured there) had she been some decent-hearted, open-minded, my-beliefs-are-separate-from-the-duties-of-my-overpaid-job.

Nah, I don't like her one bit. Said before I can be childish in thought. Thank god! Figure that has no direct effect on anyone else.

Say the same of her actions and I'll eat my words.

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

hedonist said:

See, we all have our reactions. I'd feel bad (actually never would've even ventured there) had she been some decent-hearted, open-minded, my-beliefs-are-separate-from-the-duties-of-my-overpaid-job.

Nah, I don't like her one bit. Said before I can be childish in thought. Thank god! Figure that has no direct effect on anyone else.

Say the same of her actions and I'll eat my words.

Her actions are the same as any other child. Misguided until otherwise.

Except she's not a child.

She's a well-paid elected....ah, fuck it.

(and let it be known I could've joyously gone the hair route again but with great restraint chose not to - please be gentle when patting my back)

http://time.com/4029400/kim-davis-denied-me-a-marriage-license/

Personally, religion and religious beliefs make me uncomfortable. I fully respect the rights of others to hold such beliefs but I have absolutely no respect for those who impose them on others.

I was raised by an atheist mother and all my older brothers would also be atheists. Ireland has traditionally been a very strongly Catholic country so unsurprisingly this posed some issues. I was baptised and also did my communion and confirmation as it was quite simply just what you did. In fact, even today it is extremely difficult to get into a primary school (age 4-12) if you have not been baptised. I went on to a convent school from age 12-18. Again choices were limited as we didn't have a car and it was the best school in the area. I'd had enough of religion class and regular trips to confession at that point though, so I simply refused to participate. This eventually led to me being called to the principal's office where she suggested to me that I might be better off in the Protestant school down the road! I stayed in the school but it certainly didn't enamour me of Catholicism or any other religion.

I find it deeply unsettling when a person believes they have a right to force their religious views on others and attempt to impose their way of life on them. When a state does so, well to me that is just unacceptable. Religion is a personal thing and as I said, people can believe whatever they want. If they want to teach religion in schools I believe it should only be taught as a subject of cultural, historical and sociological interest and it most certainly should not be compulsory. Naturally, it should also be taught from an anthropological point of view, presenting varying sets of beliefs, rather than presenting them as facts.

More importantly, religion has no place in the laws of our lands. If you choose to apply for or accept a job that requires you to uphold and enforce the laws of your jurisdiction, then you should first ensure that you are prepared to do so. If a law is subsequently passed that conflicts with your beliefs, then you should immediately speak to your employers and explain this to them. If you're fortunate, perhaps they might be able to find a way to allow you to continue in your job without contravening your beliefs. If not, tough shit. You are hired to perform a job, if you cannot meet the requirements of the job then they are entitled to replace you with someone who can.

I live in a country where, sadly, religion still casts its shadow over our laws. This situation is changing, though far too slowly. Hopefully there will come a day where religious considerations have no bearing on the laws of any land, as no government has the right to choose the religion of its citizens by enacting such laws.

Sorry for the long ramble but I guess you could say it's an issue I feel strongly about

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

HAHHAHHAHHAHHAHA I just love a good laugh ! thank you.

Godfather.

Care to elaborate on what you find humourous?

a hand full of people on here have no more than insults to add to this topic
and they talk about equal rights but only see and agree with the rights of the party they feel has been wronged, anger is a funny thing, I believe if you read all the posts on this thread you will see a mirror image of just about every topic brought forth to the train from muslim terrorist to gays and Christians and when they try to take thier point to an extreem they bash the Christain faith or talk about the bigots who don't agree with them, this hand full of people are a prime example of what they feel is wrong with the world to start with and that's why total world peace is imposible in the big picture, I realize this is just a forum with no real solution to any propblems (and it's probably a good thing) but sometimes I just have to laugh at the hand full.

Godfather.

You don't seem to understand things, no matter how many times they are explained. It is not incumbent on anyone to except anyone elses bigotry, and respect is earned not given. Racists, bigots, thieves, predators...they all deserve our disdain and it is not at all the same thing to hate a hater as it is to hate someone who hasn't given cause.

jnimhaoileoin said:

Personally, religion and religious beliefs make me uncomfortable. I fully respect the rights of others to hold such beliefs but I have absolutely no respect for those who impose them on others.

I was raised by an atheist mother and all my older brothers would also be atheists. Ireland has traditionally been a very strongly Catholic country so unsurprisingly this posed some issues. I was baptised and also did my communion and confirmation as it was quite simply just what you did. In fact, even today it is extremely difficult to get into a primary school (age 4-12) if you have not been baptised. I went on to a convent school from age 12-18. Again choices were limited as we didn't have a car and it was the best school in the area. I'd had enough of religion class and regular trips to confession at that point though, so I simply refused to participate. This eventually led to me being called to the principal's office where she suggested to me that I might be better off in the Protestant school down the road! I stayed in the school but it certainly didn't enamour me of Catholicism or any other religion.

I find it deeply unsettling when a person believes they have a right to force their religious views on others and attempt to impose their way of life on them. When a state does so, well to me that is just unacceptable. Religion is a personal thing and as I said, people can believe whatever they want. If they want to teach religion in schools I believe it should only be taught as a subject of cultural, historical and sociological interest and it most certainly should not be compulsory. Naturally, it should also be taught from an anthropological point of view, presenting varying sets of beliefs, rather than presenting them as facts.

More importantly, religion has no place in the laws of our lands. If you choose to apply for or accept a job that requires you to uphold and enforce the laws of your jurisdiction, then you should first ensure that you are prepared to do so. If a law is subsequently passed that conflicts with your beliefs, then you should immediately speak to your employers and explain this to them. If you're fortunate, perhaps they might be able to find a way to allow you to continue in your job without contravening your beliefs. If not, tough shit. You are hired to perform a job, if you cannot meet the requirements of the job then they are entitled to replace you with someone who can.

I live in a country where, sadly, religion still casts its shadow over our laws. This situation is changing, though far too slowly. Hopefully there will come a day where religious considerations have no bearing on the laws of any land, as no government has the right to choose the religion of its citizens by enacting such laws.

Sorry for the long ramble but I guess you could say it's an issue I feel strongly about

Wasn't there a Led Zeppelin song that was called *Ramble On*......and you did so. Bravo you, well done.....like you said it should have no bearing and if so move unto something to your liking.

Peace

Godfather. said:

quote: "I live in a country where, sadly, religion still casts its shadow over our laws. This situation is changing, though far too slowly. Hopefully there will come a day where religious considerations have no bearing on the laws of any land, as no government has the right to choose the religion of its citizens by enacting such laws."

are there any countries in the world that live by the laws you hope for ? serious question and if so what shape are they in ?

Godfather.

As far as I know, Sweden and Denmark live by secular laws and are pretty good models of what we should be aiming for

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

imposing your views on others is a two way street, I agree with you, both sides are imposing thier views on each other so it boils down to personal choices, her religious freedom was used by her and she made the choice to not do her job so she should have been fired or suspended not put in a position to be thrown in jail.

Godfather.

this is where you are incorrect. imposing your views is not a two way street. they were not obstructing her from anything. she was. no one is imposing their views on her. they are not stopping her from doing anything. they were requesting a service allowed by law. she, however, was stopping them from getting a marriage license.

if a black person was being told they couldn't use a washroom in a southern US restaurant, would you say the black person is imposing their views on the white restaurant owners?

And this is correct.

GF... you are confusing religious freedom with being free to persecute others based on your religious beliefs.

HughFreakingDillon said:

and I can't comment on the jail thing. I don't know enough about those laws to understand why she was in contempt of court instead of a just a deadbeat not doing her job, requiring dismissal.

County clerks in KY are elected officials. And as someone mentioned earlier, they can only be dismissed by state leg. or governor. Both the AG, Conway, and the Governor, Beshear, have elected to do nothing. Conway is running for Governor and Beshears son is running for AG. State leg. is primarily conservative so most are on her side, or at the very least, not willing to piss off the conservative constituency in this state. Most people outside Louisville, the states largest city, are really conservative even if they say the are Dems.