I don't care what anyone thinks God's work is supposed to be, partly because no one could know that, namely because God doesn't exist anyway, and also because God has no place in government anyhow, so what difference does it make?? JAG, how do you justify your idea that personal religious belief has any place in government and how the law defines and serves equal rights, and how do you reconcile it with your own apparent respect of the Constitution in other regards? For example, how can you possibly defend your right to free speech or right to bear arms, while supporting opposition to the Constitution based on your religious beliefs?
I guess it's pretty ridiculous of me to expect any kind of logical comment or answer from you about anything at this point, but I keep hoping. I do actually think that you are just a very creative troll who loves to say whatever you feel will get people irritated (i picture you sitting at the computer and chuckling and cackling over how gullible we all are), but even so, I am curious to see what you can come up with as an answer to that question.
I love how when I say something that actually makes sense, I'm called a troll. Why don't you suggest I see a doctor again? I am asked questions and answer them, only to be told I dodge questions. I also said before that when I make a statement, I don't feel the need to defend my statement to death. It's not going to be changed by you.
The difference is that I don't resort to hate and violence, degrading people based on appearance (and then bash others for doing the same thing) insult others religions, etc. maybe that's why I am considered a troll? I make a simple typo, an "n" vs an "m" and it's noted and made fun of in three seperate posts? Again, bullying, and ganging up.
I am open to debating the comments I made. I am not open to answering every question you create to try and discredit the things I say. That's the 4th or 5th time I've said it, continue to say I dodge questions I could care less.
All I've asked is to please respect my religion. It's mocked repeatedly. Jesus died for us, and it's ignored daily. The dude died being beaten to death by people who disagreed with his beliefs. Was that right? Is the actions you're taking any different tha the roams?
Stop calling me and my lord and savior a troll. We're not trolls and were good people. I want to believe you are too but it gets harder and harder every day. I'll pray for you again tonight but I'm losing hope.
It doesn't seem as though JAG is willing to answer your question, PJSoul, so I will. Throughout history, people have been in agreement with certain laws, whether constitutional or otherwise, while still disagreeing with others. I don't believe it's relevant if those beliefs are religious in nature or not. the point is, laws get changed and changed back all the time, hence all the amendments to the constitution as a living document. for example, many people are pro 1st ammendment, but against the 2nd.
however, if this woman is sworn to uphold the law as stated by the supreme court, she can fight that law all she wants........from the sidelines. she simply cannot perform her duties as an elected official properly if she refuses to perform any portion of it as required by law. there should be no caveat to allow her to hold that position and not have to sign off on same sex licenses. that in itself is excusing discrimination. I don't personally believe that religious discrimination against her applies here either, if that is what she, or those who support her, are saying. the onus of the complaint resides with those receiving/not receiving the service, not those administering it.
KD has a legal accomodation under KY law. period. Until KY legislature removes the obligation for elected clerks signature this is where they are at. A few posts up show when that may occur.
Until that happens I hope the judges order is enforceable about the allowance of the deputy clerks signature.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....
it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.
ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....
it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.
True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....
Some good points in here. In fact I think I'm going to let this one ride. I stated my point of view and hopefully addressed some others.
ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....
it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.
True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.
I suppose....but really....the mass majority of people disagree with her. Equal rights are there - that battle has already been won. The system did it's job in rooting her out when she ignored the law....the support and political grandstanding is being enabled by the disproportionate coverage. It may be interesting, but if there wasn't one or two of her supporters out of the fifty or so regs on this board, the thread would have died a long time ago. We all just like to argue
ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....
it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.
True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.
I suppose....but really....the mass majority of people disagree with her. Equal rights are there - that battle has already been won. The system did it's job in rooting her out when she ignored the law....the support and political grandstanding is being enabled by the disproportionate coverage. It may be interesting, but if there wasn't one or two of her supporters out of the fifty or so regs on this board, the thread would have died a long time ago. We all just like to argue
I would have said the same thing about abortion 5 or so years ago, but now we're seeing states taking action to make it much more difficult to have a right to choose. And there are schools in the US that have resumed teaching creationism, which is another thing I never thought would happen. I find this Kim Davis thing pretty sinister because I don't really trust America to cap off crazy shit like this, lol. But I HOPE that it does.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....
it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.
True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.
I suppose....but really....the mass majority of people disagree with her. Equal rights are there - that battle has already been won. The system did it's job in rooting her out when she ignored the law....the support and political grandstanding is being enabled by the disproportionate coverage. It may be interesting, but if there wasn't one or two of her supporters out of the fifty or so regs on this board, the thread would have died a long time ago. We all just like to argue
anytime you think "we won, who cares?", there's a group waiting in the wings to change things up when you aren't looking.
the fight for equality doesn't end with legislation. it ends when there's no more opposition.
ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....
it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.
True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.
I suppose....but really....the mass majority of people disagree with her. Equal rights are there - that battle has already been won. The system did it's job in rooting her out when she ignored the law....the support and political grandstanding is being enabled by the disproportionate coverage. It may be interesting, but if there wasn't one or two of her supporters out of the fifty or so regs on this board, the thread would have died a long time ago. We all just like to argue
anytime you think "we won, who cares?", there's a group waiting in the wings to change things up when you aren't looking.
the fight for equality doesn't end with legislation. it ends when there's no more opposition.
Yes.
One can say 'that fight's been won'... but... obviously there's a little more fight that's necessary.
ya you guys are right....I think it's naive to have said the fight's been won anyway....there may be equality in the eyes of the law but obviously not in the way it's applied. It is important. I guess I'm just surprised that this topic has managed to remain as the top thread on this forum for so long, when it doesn't seem like there is all that much to discuss about it.
ya you guys are right....I think it's naive to have said the fight's been won anyway....there may be equality in the eyes of the law but obviously not in the way it's applied. It is important. I guess I'm just surprised that this topic has managed to remain as the top thread on this forum for so long, when it doesn't seem like there is all that much to discuss about it.
It might just because of this, if you get my drift:
I mean, look at it. That is an honest to god, Righteous with a capital "R" holy-roller holding hands with Mike Huckabee while Eye of the Tiger played and people cheered and waved crosses around and everything .... People are going to turn and stare when abstract art actually becomes reality. I am personally finding this scene hard to get out of my mind.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
ya you guys are right....I think it's naive to have said the fight's been won anyway....there may be equality in the eyes of the law but obviously not in the way it's applied. It is important. I guess I'm just surprised that this topic has managed to remain as the top thread on this forum for so long, when it doesn't seem like there is all that much to discuss about it.
It might just because of this, if you get my drift:
I mean, look at it. That is an honest to god, Righteous with a capital "R" holy-roller holding hands with Mike Huckabee while Eye of the Tiger played and people cheered and waved crosses around and everything .... People are going to turn and stare when abstract art actually has becomes reality. I am personally finding this scene hard to get out of my mind.
That picture makes my stomach turn. You can see it in Huckabees eyes: "if this doesn't bring my poll numbers up, nothing will." I won't call him a phony because I think Huckabee is a religious loon as well, but I will say he is doing this out of sheer publicity.
ya you guys are right....I think it's naive to have said the fight's been won anyway....there may be equality in the eyes of the law but obviously not in the way it's applied. It is important. I guess I'm just surprised that this topic has managed to remain as the top thread on this forum for so long, when it doesn't seem like there is all that much to discuss about it.
It might just because of this, if you get my drift:
I mean, look at it. That is an honest to god, Righteous with a capital "R" holy-roller holding hands with Mike Huckabee while Eye of the Tiger played and people cheered and waved crosses around and everything .... People are going to turn and stare when abstract art actually has becomes reality. I am personally finding this scene hard to get out of my mind.
That picture makes my stomach turn. You can see it in Huckabees eyes: "if this doesn't bring my poll numbers up, nothing will." I won't call him a phony because I think Huckabee is a religious loon as well, but I will say he is doing this out of sheer publicity.
I wonder if Mrs Davis would give Huckeebee her vote? I gather wherever he can appear to be relevant he will show up to do so.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
There is a picture of that photo-op that is framed so that her head blocks out the "O" in the word County behind her, and the edge of the photo finishes the word with the "T"....can't find it now... I know the mods hate that word, so it's probably for the best. My first introduction to Huckabee was years and years ago (probably more than ten), when Rick Mercer got him congratulate Canada, on video, for preserving our national igloo. How this guy has stayed in politics for this long is beyond me.
I swear I am talking to myself here. No one seems to want to respond to FACTS of the law as written by the state and what SCOTUS has decided. AND the fact the KY legislature is the body that needs to act next. THAT wont happen til soemtime in January I will not engage here any longer. Sick of being ignored and seeing posts made by junior high school students. Til then have at the childish shit.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I swear I am talking to myself here. No one seems to want to respond to FACTS of the law as written by the state and what SCOTUS has decided. AND the fact the KY legislature is the body that needs to act next. THAT wont happen til soemtime in January I will not engage here any longer. Sick of being ignored and seeing posts made by junior high school students. Til then have at the childish shit.
Is this where I get to throw the 'I bet you're a real blast at parties' back at you? i can only speak for myself in saying that I haven't followed this thread, so I didn't read your post about the legal 'wrinkle' to this story. Good find. I'll go back to ignoring this topic because obviously not being 100% up to speed on it makes me a middle school imbecile.
I swear I am talking to myself here. No one seems to want to respond to FACTS of the law as written by the state and what SCOTUS has decided. AND the fact the KY legislature is the body that needs to act next. THAT wont happen til soemtime in January I will not engage here any longer. Sick of being ignored and seeing posts made by junior high school students. Til then have at the childish shit.
I hear you. I posted something about this yesterday, that due to the way the state laws are and how the governor has responded, Ms. Davis can continue as she did previously without many repercussions. She seems to have decided on a compromise at the moment. What I pointed out was that she could continue her previous behavior until the legislature meets in January, while still collecting that $80K salary. Even if they passed a law immediately, who knows exactly when it would take effect. She can extend her 15 minutes of fame for a few months at least.
I do get the impression that the majority of people are not on her side.
There is a picture of that photo-op that is framed so that her head blocks out the "O" in the word County behind her, and the edge of the photo finishes the word with the "T"....can't find it now... I know the mods hate that word, so it's probably for the best. My first introduction to Huckabee was years and years ago (probably more than ten), when Rick Mercer got him congratulate Canada, on video, for preserving our national igloo. How this guy has stayed in politics for this long is beyond me.
There is a picture of that photo-op that is framed so that her head blocks out the "O" in the word County behind her, and the edge of the photo finishes the word with the "T"....can't find it now... I know the mods hate that word, so it's probably for the best. My first introduction to Huckabee was years and years ago (probably more than ten), when Rick Mercer got him congratulate Canada, on video, for preserving our national igloo. How this guy has stayed in politics for this long is beyond me.
It's a great photo, lol, and someone did already post it either here or in another thread... not sure if the mods deleted it or not. IMO, it was about as perfect as it gets, lol. I actually remember that from Rick Mercer, now that you mention it!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I swear I am talking to myself here. No one seems to want to respond to FACTS of the law as written by the state and what SCOTUS has decided. AND the fact the KY legislature is the body that needs to act next. THAT wont happen til soemtime in January I will not engage here any longer. Sick of being ignored and seeing posts made by junior high school students. Til then have at the childish shit.
Wtf do you want from us???? Did it occur to you that no one really has anything to say to your last post? I know I don't. I mean, you basically said it's a wait and see thing and that you don't care to discuss until then. So...? What kind of response were you hoping for?
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
My question for all who posted in this thread, who among you is in the middle seeking the compromise.. If you aren't dont answer, your previous posts have spoken loud enough.
I am 100% ok with this woman believing what she wants. I just don't believe it has a place in any kind of gov't position. Her personal religion should be just that, personal. Laws govern everyone from all faith and no faith. I am sure she took some kind of an oath to uphold the law. If she placed her hand on a bible and swore to god, good for her. The bible isn't constitutional law. I'm all for standing up for what you believe in whether I agree or not. She's done that. Now she needs to start doing the job she was elected to do or step aside. If the KY government changes the law so she can get around it, that's fine by me too. There shouldn't be any grey area when it comes to issuing legal documents.
@mickeyrat This was my response. I guess my answer was, if she can't currently do the job under the law, step down. If Kentucky changes the law so she can, that's cool too.
Edit - it was back a page. Don't get all worked up buddy. Have yourself a nice cold ginger ale and chill.
I swear I am talking to myself here. No one seems to want to respond to FACTS of the law as written by the state and what SCOTUS has decided. AND the fact the KY legislature is the body that needs to act next. THAT wont happen til soemtime in January I will not engage here any longer. Sick of being ignored and seeing posts made by junior high school students. Til then have at the childish shit.
I dont think anyone was purposely ignoring anyone else. I didnt notice your response to my post until now. My apologies.
What does "reasonable accomodation" really mean? She can refuse to do her duties for any reason, or specifically religious beliefs?
As an aside....it bugs me that anyone is able to get special treatment based on spiritual beliefs. Our corporate dress code, for example, specifically states no headwear if any kind is allowed, "unless of religious or cultural significance". that's bullshit. Do I want to wear my raccoon skin hat to work? No. But it bugs me that people are given concessions simply for belonging to a visible minority. Like that RCMP officer who was allowed to not wear the uniform issued police hat that every other single officer in the country is required to wear, so they could wear their head dress (forgive my ignorance of the actual name) because if not, it violated their religious freedom. They went to court and won. Bullshit. Then get another fucking job that does not require a uniform. I dont get to wear a stickman hat to work.
As an aside....it bugs me that anyone is able to get special treatment based on spiritual beliefs. Our corporate dress code, for example, specifically states no headwear if any kind is allowed, "unless of religious or cultural significance". that's bullshit. Do I want to wear my raccoon skin hat to work? No. But it bugs me that people are given concessions simply for belonging to a visible minority. Like that RCMP officer who was allowed to not wear the uniform issued police hat that every other single officer in the country is required to wear, so they could wear their head dress (forgive my ignorance of the actual name) because if not, it violated their religious freedom. They went to court and won. Bullshit. Then get another fucking job that does not require a uniform. I dont get to wear a stickman hat to work.
Keep your god at home.
And I'd add, even if not kept at home, simply within.
There is a picture of that photo-op that is framed so that her head blocks out the "O" in the word County behind her, and the edge of the photo finishes the word with the "T"....can't find it now... I know the mods hate that word, so it's probably for the best. My first introduction to Huckabee was years and years ago (probably more than ten), when Rick Mercer got him congratulate Canada, on video, for preserving our national igloo. How this guy has stayed in politics for this long is beyond me.
There is a picture of that photo-op that is framed so that her head blocks out the "O" in the word County behind her, and the edge of the photo finishes the word with the "T"....can't find it now... I know the mods hate that word, so it's probably for the best. My first introduction to Huckabee was years and years ago (probably more than ten), when Rick Mercer got him congratulate Canada, on video, for preserving our national igloo. How this guy has stayed in politics for this long is beyond me.
It's a great photo, lol, and someone did already post it either here or in another thread... not sure if the mods deleted it or not. IMO, it was about as perfect as it gets, lol. I actually remember that from Rick Mercer, now that you mention it!
oops, thanks PJS and gillycw. that would explain why I couldn't find it where I was looking.
Godfather, please send Luka Brasi visit this woman.
the country will forever be in your debt.
if you had come to me sooner this woman woulld be fearing you at this very moment.. someday I will call on you for a favor..and that day may never come but until then concider this a gift on this good day of the train family.
rr, have Luka Brasi take care of this, nothing to messy the couples are still alive.
Comments
Until that happens I hope the judges order is enforceable about the allowance of the deputy clerks signature.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
www.headstonesband.com
the fight for equality doesn't end with legislation. it ends when there's no more opposition.
www.headstonesband.com
One can say 'that fight's been won'... but... obviously there's a little more fight that's necessary.
I mean, look at it. That is an honest to god, Righteous with a capital "R" holy-roller holding hands with Mike Huckabee while Eye of the Tiger played and people cheered and waved crosses around and everything .... People are going to turn and stare when abstract art actually becomes reality.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
My first introduction to Huckabee was years and years ago (probably more than ten), when Rick Mercer got him congratulate Canada, on video, for preserving our national igloo. How this guy has stayed in politics for this long is beyond me.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
i can only speak for myself in saying that I haven't followed this thread, so I didn't read your post about the legal 'wrinkle' to this story. Good find.
I'll go back to ignoring this topic because obviously not being 100% up to speed on it makes me a middle school imbecile.
I do get the impression that the majority of people are not on her side.
How Kim Davis Violated The First Ammendment
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/14/how-kim-davis-violated-the-first-amendment.html?via=desktop&source=facebook
www.headstonesband.com
This was my response. I guess my answer was, if she can't currently do the job under the law, step down. If Kentucky changes the law so she can, that's cool too.
Edit - it was back a page. Don't get all worked up buddy. Have yourself a nice cold ginger ale and chill.
What does "reasonable accomodation" really mean? She can refuse to do her duties for any reason, or specifically religious beliefs?
www.headstonesband.com
Godfather, please send Luka Brasi visit this woman.
the country will forever be in your debt.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Keep your god at home.
www.headstonesband.com
someday I will call on you for a favor..and that day may never come but until then concider this a gift on this good day of the train family.
rr, have Luka Brasi take care of this, nothing to messy the couples are still alive.
Godfather.