Meanwhile back in Israel

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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,551
    And this...
    http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/5/1/dimi-reider-israel-article.html?utm_content=main&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow
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  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    badbrains said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    Can I say they are a bunch of thugs or will I be deemed a racist?

    Who are the thugs?
    It was a joke. Looked relatively peaceful, whatever they were doing. But, screaming death to Arabs in the street in mass isn't far off from thug behavior.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    Last-12-Exit said:

    badbrains said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    Can I say they are a bunch of thugs or will I be deemed a racist?

    Who are the thugs?
    It was a joke. Looked relatively peaceful, whatever they were doing. But, screaming death to Arabs in the street in mass isn't far off from thug behavior.
    That's a normal day there
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,158
    [Sigh]
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    yosi said:

    [Sigh]

    Is it normal for Israelis to gather in the streets shouting death to arabs?
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,158
    No, it's not normal, nor is it reflective of how most Israelis feel.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    No, it's not normal, nor is it reflective of how most Israelis feel.

    I know we differ a lot on this topic yosi, but it is good to see you back. I'm just saying.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,385
    edited May 2015
    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    No, it's not normal, nor is it reflective of how most Israelis feel.

    I know we differ a lot on this topic yosi, but it is good to see you back. I'm just saying.
    Nart, this is something I agree with Yosi about. Don't forget, if air raid sirens, civil strife, and threats on your right to exist (coming from Iran's ayatollah) were commonplace in your country - regardless of how feasible it is that they would amount to any harm on you or your friends or family - you would be significantly more willing to listen to your elected leader when he tells you to be fearful, and tells you who your enemy is. This perpetuates a culture of fear, and as has been proven through religion, cults, governments, corporations, lobbies, friends and family - propaganda's impact is not limited to the stupid folks of society: it can affect all if handled well.

    Also please remember that, just as the news can omit to clarify the distinction between a Muslim and an extremist who is a Muslim - the same can be said about Israelis.

    Do I think there's a problem? 100%. Do I think it's amplified for effect? 100%.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    My post was just to say it's nice to see yosi back.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,385
    badbrains said:

    My post was just to say it's nice to see yosi back.

    Fair enough :)

    Agree with you wholeheartedly about that.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Great article about a courageous young woman. Should be read to the end. This is how you engage the system to make change on all sides.

    http://www.themedialine.org/women/israeli-arab-is-the-face-of-israel-as-first-un-youth-delegate-2/
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    Anybody see the riots going on in tel aviv?
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,389
    Or the report that quotes Israeli soldiers as saying it was very loose rules of engagement that allowed the IDF to target Palestinian non combatants and homes. Thanks Bibi, war criminal.
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  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    This guy BS is sure working hard trying to show Israel as the beacons of peace. And Iran as the big bad boogie man. You'd almost think he's on someone's payroll.
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,158
    Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited May 2015
    BS44325 said:

    Also a ton of good bands going to play there

    http://www.touristisrael.com/events/israel-concerts/

    Why does every Israeli tourism / entertainment site read like total propaganda? Listing previous acts to play there...? Like I've said here before: this is exactly why pj should never play there. You're used as an endorsement for the occupation.

    About those great upcoming shows:
    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/lauryn-hill-cancels-israel-show-after-palestinian-boycott-call
    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.

    What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    Drowned Out said:


    BS44325 said:

    Also a ton of good bands going to play there

    http://www.touristisrael.com/events/israel-concerts/

    Why does every Israeli tourism / entertainment site read like total propaganda? Listing previous acts to play there...? Like I've said here before: this is exactly why pj should never play there. You're used as an endorsement for the occupation.

    About those great upcoming shows:
    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/lauryn-hill-cancels-israel-show-after-palestinian-boycott-call
    More and more will follow. I wonder if the U.S. Senators are gonna come up with some "new" law that's gonna take away American citizenship from musicians who boycott playing in Israel.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited May 2015
    Pretty damning evidence:

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/patrick-strickland/israeli-soldiers-ordered-kill-civilians-gaza-says-breaking-silence

    From the article:

    instructions are to shoot right away,” he told Breaking the Silence, an organization formed by Israeli soldiers opposed to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. “Whoever you spot – be they armed or unarmed, no matter what. The instructions are very clear. Any person you run into, that you see with your eyes – shoot to kill. It’s an explicit instruction.”

    Another staff sergeant, who was in an infantry unit in northern Gaza, recalled watching a civilian while he was “writhing in pain.”

    “So this old man came over, and the guy manning the post — I don’t know what was going through his head — he saw this civilian, and he fired at him, and he didn’t get a good hit,” the staff sergeant remarked. “The civilian was laying there, writhing in pain.”

    He said: “It was clear to everyone that one of two things was going to happen: Either we let him die slowly, or we put him out of his misery. Eventually, we put him out of his misery and a D9 [armored bulldozer] came over and dropped a mound of rubble on him and that was the end of it.”
    Post edited by badbrains on
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,385
    badbrains said:

    This guy BS is sure working hard trying to show Israel as the beacons of peace. And Iran as the big bad boogie man. You'd almost think he's on someone's payroll.

    In this interview, Athamni clearly discusses the way she is regularly singled out at airports and treated akin to a terrorist. She talks about the fact that her parents fear speaking up about literally anything political out of concern of being jailed or exiled. Of how she can't buy land in Israel although one would think her birthright would allow her to, while a Jewish person immigrating could within a week. I'm sure she'd have a far larger list of injustices had this interview been longer.

    If BS or Athamni were trying to show Israel as a beacon of peace in this article, they would have both failed miserably in this case.

    The point of this article, from my perspective, is nothing more than showing 'hope'. It's so important not to lose sight of that hope: as I've said too many times to count here, it will not be adversarial behaviours internally which bring peace, it will be universal (i.e. bidirectional) empathy - yes, even from oppressed to oppressors. If Israeli leaders were to study South African apartheid (I'm guessing they do), their paranoid minds would probably not read to the end of the story and see the fact that steps towards equality and reparations were granted: they would stop at the violent upheaval from the less fortunate minority, and begin discussions about how to prevent that.

    At the point where the world delivers a crippled economy under extensive sanctions (the logical next step if Israel's path follows that of SA's) with the impending promise of violence (the remaining voice of the oppressed), this will force Israeli leadership's hands to contemplate change and a solution will have to be found. The world hasn't yet squeezed hard enough, but it will. People like Athamni will then be critical to finding a solution that seeks to satisfy Israeli and Palestinian hopes.

    I think it's incredibly important that, for anyone who wants peace in the region, we only focus on obstacles when we can contemplate viable ways to get past them. If we can't, then we're only problem-centric - an attitude which simply perpetuates adversarial relationships.

    A plumber who shows up and tells me my house is flooding and walks out to head back to the office is problem-centric. One who heads back to his car to get his tools with a theory on how to locate the leak is a solution-centric one. We need to all be there. This is going to sound harsh, but I have no more patience left for anti-Palestinian nor anti-Israeli rhetoric if either are unaccompanied by proposals for change. This does not mean we should shut up (and, in fact, in recognizing problems, it means we are morally obligated to never shut up), this means we need to be more creative and perhaps pivot our perspectives (and of course I'm including myself in this) to consider more angles in our search for justice.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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