Meanwhile back in Israel

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  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    edited May 2015
    BS - sadly opportunistic to use discussions between Putin (the guy you recently claimed I support as evidence of...something), and Chrétien (the PM that kept us out of the Iraq war you approved of), to defend our country as a military power that 'gets shit done'.
    BS44325 said:

    Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

    See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.xk22Px0N.dpuf
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

    The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

    And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

    And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

    A week before, Shaked wrote another status insisting

    This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.

    These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.

    Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

    Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

    The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

    Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

    Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Ok...I inform you that a person who has called for Palestinian genocide has been appointed Justice Minister; the person responsible for choosing the Attorney General. I also show that the leader of her party was involved in a civilian massacre and has no problem boasting about killing arabs. Bennett and Shaked's party has now formed a coalition with Bibi's party, and been assigned powerful cabinet positions.
    Your response to this is to incorrectly state that Hamas forms the opposition in the PA (they are part of a unity government with Fatah), and point to this as the reason these politicians are coming to power.
    I guess this tit-for-tat only goes one way? The politicians forming a coalition to govern Israel are products of Hamas terrorism....but the politicians forming a coalition to govern the occupied territories are...not a product of Israeli oppression? Please explain your glaring double standard.
    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,205
    You do realize that Israel has internal politics, right? And that not everything that happens in Israeli politics is in response to the Palestinians? You also realize that the West Bank is under military occupation, so affairs there fall into the defense ministry portfolio, not the justice ministry.
    Add about 8,000 posts to my post number.


    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    You do realize that Israel has internal politics, right? And that not everything that happens in Israeli politics is in response to the Palestinians? You also realize that the West Bank is under military occupation, so affairs there fall into the defense ministry portfolio, not the justice ministry.

    I'd say drowned out knows a lot when it comes to this conflict or Israel. Just saying.
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,205
    My point is simply to warn against oversimplification and being sloppy with facts.
    Add about 8,000 posts to my post number.


    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.

  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    edited May 2015
    yosi said:

    You do realize that Israel has internal politics, right? And that not everything that happens in Israeli politics is in response to the Palestinians? You also realize that the West Bank is under military occupation, so affairs there fall into the defense ministry portfolio, not the justice ministry.

    Despite the fact that you always claim to be a liberal zionist, and not a bibi supporter, here you are defending this appointment, and excusing perhaps the most right-wing government ever in Israel as simply internal politics....? not surprised one bit.

    Of course I realize all of this.....your point? (aside from confusing casual observers?)
    Internal politics....yes, I realize it's the nature of politics to form coalitions in order to maintain power. And yes, I realize that Bennett had all the leverage as Bibi was desperate to get his appointments finalized before the deadline. I guess because forming coalitions with different political parties is the norm, it's ok to appoint someone who called for genocide as justice minister?

    Again...how is this any different from the internal politics of the OT? Do you think that Shaked's appointment is inconsequential to the civil liberties of palestinian Israelis?

    About that defense ministry....shall we talk about the defense minister, Moshe Yaalon? Sued for his part in the same massacre (Qana Lebanon) Bennett was involved in, a lawsuit dismissed because of diplomatic immunity? The guy who described Palestinians as a cancer: "There are all kinds of solutions to cancerous manifestations. Some will say it is necessary to amputate organs. But at the moment, I am applying chemotherapy, yes."...?
    The guy who cancelled a trip to London for fear of arrest on war crimes charges he faced for yet another civilian massacre?
    The guy who said "we are going to hurt Lebanese civilians to include kids of the family. We went through a very long deep discussion … we did it then, we did it in [the] Gaza Strip, we are going to do it in any round of hostilities in the future.”...? and in the same speech threatened Iran with nuclear war:
    “in certain cases” when “we feel like we don’t have the answer by surgical operations” Israel might take “certain steps” such as the Americans did in “Nagasaki and Hiroshima, causing at the end the fatalities of 200,000.” ...? (from ei)

    phew! The palestinians are so much better off living under Yaalon than Shaked, eh? This guy seems like a real pussycat.




    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    yosi said:

    My point is simply to warn against oversimplification and being sloppy with facts.

    yet no warning to BS who called Hamas the opposition?
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    yosi said:

    You do realize that Israel has internal politics, right? And that not everything that happens in Israeli politics is in response to the Palestinians? You also realize that the West Bank is under military occupation, so affairs there fall into the defense ministry portfolio, not the justice ministry.

    Despite the fact that you always claim to be a liberal zionist, and not a bibi supporter, here you are defending this appointment, and excusing perhaps the most right-wing government ever in Israel as simply internal politics....? not surprised one bit.

    Of course I realize all of this.....your point? (aside from confusing casual observers?)
    Internal politics....yes, I realize it's the nature of politics to form coalitions in order to maintain power. And yes, I realize that Bennett had all the leverage as Bibi was desperate to get his appointments finalized before the deadline. I guess because forming coalitions with different political parties is the norm, it's ok to appoint someone who called for genocide as justice minister?

    Again...how is this any different from the internal politics of the OT? Do you think that Shaked's appointment is inconsequential to the civil liberties of palestinian Israelis?

    About that justice ministry....shall we talk about the justice minister, Moshe Yaalon? Sued for his part in the same massacre (Qana Lebanon) Bennett was involved in, a lawsuit dismissed because of diplomatic immunity? The guy who described Palestinians as a cancer: "There are all kinds of solutions to cancerous manifestations. Some will say it is necessary to amputate organs. But at the moment, I am applying chemotherapy, yes."...?
    The guy who cancelled a trip to London for fear of arrest on war crimes charges he faced for yet another civilian massacre?
    The guy who said "we are going to hurt Lebanese civilians to include kids of the family. We went through a very long deep discussion … we did it then, we did it in [the] Gaza Strip, we are going to do it in any round of hostilities in the future.”...? and in the same speech threatened Iran with nuclear war:
    “in certain cases” when “we feel like we don’t have the answer by surgical operations” Israel might take “certain steps” such as the Americans did in “Nagasaki and Hiroshima, causing at the end the fatalities of 200,000.” ...? (from ei)

    phew! The palestinians are so much better off living under Yaalon than Shaked, eh? This guy seems like a real pussycat.




    See
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,205
    Didn't notice his comment about Hamas, and frankly, I'm just not gonna respond to everything. And you're reading basically everything into my very limited comment. I'm disgusted with Bibi and abhor the current government. I'm just being nitpicky.
    Add about 8,000 posts to my post number.


    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.

  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    Only the first three paragraphs deal with your comments. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't think I was making any big leaps...? You made excuses for the appointment - that was my main point. I'm glad youre disgusted, but have to wonder why you only showed up to be nitpicky about my criticism, instead of expressing your disgust...

    I asked BS the question regarding the Israel vs PA coalitions first...still hoping he'll take a shot at that one....
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,183

    Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.

    i misread honorific as "bonerific"....

    long week...
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,436
    You do realize that Palestine has internal politics, right? And that not everything that happens in Palestinian politics is in response to the Israelis? Right?
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  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040

    You do realize that Palestine has internal politics, right? And that not everything that happens in Palestinian politics is in response to the Israelis? Right?

    Right. Like i said....glaring double standard.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,436

    Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.

    i misread honorific as "bonerific"....

    long week...
    I just spit my drink out. Almost through my nose. Thanks.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,939
    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.
    Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.
    Who owns the living room? I suppose my analogy is incomplete: we were both born and raised (and live together) in the house. We've seen landlords come and go who care not who lives there.
    I complain to Joe, the current landlord, "My wife Mary hits me in the head with a frying pan every time I see her without any provocation, and she follows me everywhere I go outside of this house - so I want some of this place as a safe refuge. Also, even in here, I don't like the way BS lives his life, and my head is too sore, I can't go out there and sustain another blow". Joe responds, "It's not my fault Mary hit you over the head with a frying pan, Ben, but I feel badly for you. That said, I'm tired of the headache of dealing with you two, and I just want out. I won't sell the place - you've made it your homes - but I'm not getting involved besides saying that, Ben, in my opinion, you should have some of the house to yourself. Peace!" Joe then tosses me the keys, and jets away in his bitchin' Camaro.

    I look over at you, shrug my shoulders, and place the official flag of Bentopia in the living room, and pee on the ground to solidify that this is now my territory. I decide that you can come in, but you must obey by my rules, even if my rules go against your personal or cultural beliefs. Do I have the right to do this?

    Edit: Now, five years have passed. As a result of your violent opposition to my occupation of the living room, I find that this permits me to take control of your kitchen as well, as well as negating any questions of the legitimacy of how I attained sovereignty over the living room. Is this justifiable?

    Holy crap this is complicated. It took me a half hour just to figure out your living room analogy!
    It's really not that complicated. And now that you've had your half an hour comprehension plus half a day digestion time - how about some answers?
    Not avoiding anyone but worked my tail off all day and on a massive bender right now. Beautiful night in downtown T.O...will try to take another crack at this riddle tomorrow when I sober up!

    Mr. Faded glory is once again doin' time...
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,939
    benjs said:

    Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.

    Sorry Hali, I didn't see that he called you that, but you're absolutely right. There's no place for that no matter who's saying it and who's receiving it.
    Woah woah woah...my use of the term "idiot" is lifted completely from the "Tom Cotton is an idiot" thread. Come on peoples! Professor's point proved again! Tom Cotton = idiot is ok but Halifax = idiot is not ok? If you dish it out then take it! #winning Now back to the bourbon.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,436
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.

    Sorry Hali, I didn't see that he called you that, but you're absolutely right. There's no place for that no matter who's saying it and who's receiving it.
    Woah woah woah...my use of the term "idiot" is lifted completely from the "Tom Cotton is an idiot" thread. Come on peoples! Professor's point proved again! Tom Cotton = idiot is ok but Halifax = idiot is not ok? If you dish it out then take it! #winning Now back to the bourbon.
    Except Tom Cotton was or is the subject, not the object. But I know it's just the bourbon talking. #losing
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited May 2015

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.

    Sorry Hali, I didn't see that he called you that, but you're absolutely right. There's no place for that no matter who's saying it and who's receiving it.
    Woah woah woah...my use of the term "idiot" is lifted completely from the "Tom Cotton is an idiot" thread. Come on peoples! Professor's point proved again! Tom Cotton = idiot is ok but Halifax = idiot is not ok? If you dish it out then take it! #winning Now back to the bourbon.
    Except Tom Cotton was or is the subject, not the object. But I know it's just the bourbon talking. #losing
    #Game over
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.

    Sorry Hali, I didn't see that he called you that, but you're absolutely right. There's no place for that no matter who's saying it and who's receiving it.
    Woah woah woah...my use of the term "idiot" is lifted completely from the "Tom Cotton is an idiot" thread. Come on peoples! Professor's point proved again! Tom Cotton = idiot is ok but Halifax = idiot is not ok? If you dish it out then take it! #winning Now back to the bourbon.
    #winning? Shit, you're playing like your maple leafs played all year, #embarrassing
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,861
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.
    Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.
    Who owns the living room? I suppose my analogy is incomplete: we were both born and raised (and live together) in the house. We've seen landlords come and go who care not who lives there.
    I complain to Joe, the current landlord, "My wife Mary hits me in the head with a frying pan every time I see her without any provocation, and she follows me everywhere I go outside of this house - so I want some of this place as a safe refuge. Also, even in here, I don't like the way BS lives his life, and my head is too sore, I can't go out there and sustain another blow". Joe responds, "It's not my fault Mary hit you over the head with a frying pan, Ben, but I feel badly for you. That said, I'm tired of the headache of dealing with you two, and I just want out. I won't sell the place - you've made it your homes - but I'm not getting involved besides saying that, Ben, in my opinion, you should have some of the house to yourself. Peace!" Joe then tosses me the keys, and jets away in his bitchin' Camaro.

    I look over at you, shrug my shoulders, and place the official flag of Bentopia in the living room, and pee on the ground to solidify that this is now my territory. I decide that you can come in, but you must obey by my rules, even if my rules go against your personal or cultural beliefs. Do I have the right to do this?

    Edit: Now, five years have passed. As a result of your violent opposition to my occupation of the living room, I find that this permits me to take control of your kitchen as well, as well as negating any questions of the legitimacy of how I attained sovereignty over the living room. Is this justifiable?

    Holy crap this is complicated. It took me a half hour just to figure out your living room analogy!
    It's really not that complicated. And now that you've had your half an hour comprehension plus half a day digestion time - how about some answers?
    Not avoiding anyone but worked my tail off all day and on a massive bender right now. Beautiful night in downtown T.O...will try to take another crack at this riddle tomorrow when I sober up!

    Mr. Faded glory is once again doin' time...
    'twas indeed a beautiful night in downtown Toronto last night - when you're ready to chat again, I'm all ears :)
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,939
    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.
    Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.
    Who owns the living room? I suppose my analogy is incomplete: we were both born and raised (and live together) in the house. We've seen landlords come and go who care not who lives there.
    I complain to Joe, the current landlord, "My wife Mary hits me in the head with a frying pan every time I see her without any provocation, and she follows me everywhere I go outside of this house - so I want some of this place as a safe refuge. Also, even in here, I don't like the way BS lives his life, and my head is too sore, I can't go out there and sustain another blow". Joe responds, "It's not my fault Mary hit you over the head with a frying pan, Ben, but I feel badly for you. That said, I'm tired of the headache of dealing with you two, and I just want out. I won't sell the place - you've made it your homes - but I'm not getting involved besides saying that, Ben, in my opinion, you should have some of the house to yourself. Peace!" Joe then tosses me the keys, and jets away in his bitchin' Camaro.

    I look over at you, shrug my shoulders, and place the official flag of Bentopia in the living room, and pee on the ground to solidify that this is now my territory. I decide that you can come in, but you must obey by my rules, even if my rules go against your personal or cultural beliefs. Do I have the right to do this?

    Edit: Now, five years have passed. As a result of your violent opposition to my occupation of the living room, I find that this permits me to take control of your kitchen as well, as well as negating any questions of the legitimacy of how I attained sovereignty over the living room. Is this justifiable?

    Holy crap this is complicated. It took me a half hour just to figure out your living room analogy!
    It's really not that complicated. And now that you've had your half an hour comprehension plus half a day digestion time - how about some answers?
    Not avoiding anyone but worked my tail off all day and on a massive bender right now. Beautiful night in downtown T.O...will try to take another crack at this riddle tomorrow when I sober up!

    Mr. Faded glory is once again doin' time...
    'twas indeed a beautiful night in downtown Toronto last night - when you're ready to chat again, I'm all ears :)
    I'm back. Two days of conferences, hard drinking and crying over my mystery vinyl. This town is on in the summer.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,939

    Only the first three paragraphs deal with your comments. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't think I was making any big leaps...? You made excuses for the appointment - that was my main point. I'm glad youre disgusted, but have to wonder why you only showed up to be nitpicky about my criticism, instead of expressing your disgust...

    I asked BS the question regarding the Israel vs PA coalitions first...still hoping he'll take a shot at that one....

    Sorry for the delay Drowned. That was a great point on the coalitions and you wouldn't be wrong to suggest a double standard. This sort of gets into a "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenerio. As I see it when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza a number of years back that should have been seen as a softening of the Israeli position. I know it didn't come close to satisfying all Palestinian demands but it was certainly a first step and the appropriate response would have been to work peacefully to additional concessions. However, Hamas very quickly instituted a one-vote/one-time election and seized control of Gaza. This became problematic because Hamas and the PA do not agree ideologically. Hamas is completely rejectionist and by their actions has superseded any ability of the PA to negotiate. Many israeli's, including many on the left, now look back at the Gaza withdrawal and ask themselves "is peace even possible...we returned Gaza and it has only gotten worse?". It is this feeling that has moved the Israeli electorate to the right and has resulted in the Israeli coalition. Lastly...as my personal views often get lost in the weeds on here by being everyone's conservative foil...I am not an Israeli apologist as I see fault on all sides. I want a two-state solution of some type. What I absolutely believe though is at this point Hamas is the true obstacle peace. Egypt agrees with this. The PA agrees with this. Unless they are removed you will unfortunately see this Netanyahu coalition for a long long time.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,861
    BS44325 said:

    Only the first three paragraphs deal with your comments. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't think I was making any big leaps...? You made excuses for the appointment - that was my main point. I'm glad youre disgusted, but have to wonder why you only showed up to be nitpicky about my criticism, instead of expressing your disgust...

    I asked BS the question regarding the Israel vs PA coalitions first...still hoping he'll take a shot at that one....

    Sorry for the delay Drowned. That was a great point on the coalitions and you wouldn't be wrong to suggest a double standard. This sort of gets into a "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenerio. As I see it when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza a number of years back that should have been seen as a softening of the Israeli position. I know it didn't come close to satisfying all Palestinian demands but it was certainly a first step and the appropriate response would have been to work peacefully to additional concessions. However, Hamas very quickly instituted a one-vote/one-time election and seized control of Gaza. This became problematic because Hamas and the PA do not agree ideologically. Hamas is completely rejectionist and by their actions has superseded any ability of the PA to negotiate. Many israeli's, including many on the left, now look back at the Gaza withdrawal and ask themselves "is peace even possible...we returned Gaza and it has only gotten worse?". It is this feeling that has moved the Israeli electorate to the right and has resulted in the Israeli coalition. Lastly...as my personal views often get lost in the weeds on here by being everyone's conservative foil...I am not an Israeli apologist as I see fault on all sides. I want a two-state solution of some type. What I absolutely believe though is at this point Hamas is the true obstacle peace. Egypt agrees with this. The PA agrees with this. Unless they are removed you will unfortunately see this Netanyahu coalition for a long long time.
    Israel's population density is close to 400 capita/square kilometre. Gaza's is ten times that, at over 4,000 capita/square kilometre. This, combined with the limited (and controlled) access to fresh water and crops, and restrictions on fishing - essentially mandates imports for the sake of the flourishing of the Palestinian people. When these restrictions or limitations on access are not lifted, and the flow of goods and services into the territories is still limited, I don't see how this would've seen by the Palestinian people as anything but a means to appease global condemnation. A first step would be associated with a true sign of faith, not a meaningless act meant to silence protesters. This was a very solid effort to make the lives of Israelis easier and less affected by what they seem to deem the cancerous cells of Israel. Rather than maintaining the internal harmony of the country, they could simply isolate anything 'problematic', and ensure its strife and turmoil is unseen and unheard elsewhere in the country.

    Hamas' one-vote/one-time election is only an issue after what Israel deems the appropriate maximum term length ought to be has elapsed (which, given that Netanyahu is on his fourth term, even interrupted by a term out of office, is strange to me). Until that point, the one-vote/one-time election is a moot point.

    Hamas and the PA indeed do not agree ideologically: the PA's stance has been weakened to only have hope for a two-state solution; Hamas have hope for a one-state solution. This has nothing to do with rejectionist viewpoints: it's the simple reality that pushing for a one-state solution and pushing for a two-state solution must have different procedures, so they butt heads. This means that when you say that you believe Hamas is a true obstacle to peace - you should clarify: Hamas is a true obstacle to a two-state solution, inasmuch as the PA is a true obstacle to a one-state solution. Must they align in their goal? Absolutely: pushing for either scenario damages the effort to push for the other.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,939
    edited May 2015

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
    No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.
    israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.
    So here it is all laid out but the battlefield is in Syria.

    http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/05/09/downfall-in-syria/#more-43144

    Saudi and Turkey are helping the sunni extremists take down Assad who is being backed by Hezbollah/Iran

    As this occurs ISIS has also declared war on Hamas

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/195128

    ISIS at the same time is battling with the Muslim Brotherhood as well and we know where Egypt stands on this fight

    http://shoebat.com/2014/08/23/isis-declares-war-hamas-muslim-brotherhood/

    This is the grand battle taking shape against American wishes and I bet Israel is helping the egyptian/saudi/turkey/PA alliance behind the scenes
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,939
    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    Only the first three paragraphs deal with your comments. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't think I was making any big leaps...? You made excuses for the appointment - that was my main point. I'm glad youre disgusted, but have to wonder why you only showed up to be nitpicky about my criticism, instead of expressing your disgust...

    I asked BS the question regarding the Israel vs PA coalitions first...still hoping he'll take a shot at that one....

    Sorry for the delay Drowned. That was a great point on the coalitions and you wouldn't be wrong to suggest a double standard. This sort of gets into a "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenerio. As I see it when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza a number of years back that should have been seen as a softening of the Israeli position. I know it didn't come close to satisfying all Palestinian demands but it was certainly a first step and the appropriate response would have been to work peacefully to additional concessions. However, Hamas very quickly instituted a one-vote/one-time election and seized control of Gaza. This became problematic because Hamas and the PA do not agree ideologically. Hamas is completely rejectionist and by their actions has superseded any ability of the PA to negotiate. Many israeli's, including many on the left, now look back at the Gaza withdrawal and ask themselves "is peace even possible...we returned Gaza and it has only gotten worse?". It is this feeling that has moved the Israeli electorate to the right and has resulted in the Israeli coalition. Lastly...as my personal views often get lost in the weeds on here by being everyone's conservative foil...I am not an Israeli apologist as I see fault on all sides. I want a two-state solution of some type. What I absolutely believe though is at this point Hamas is the true obstacle peace. Egypt agrees with this. The PA agrees with this. Unless they are removed you will unfortunately see this Netanyahu coalition for a long long time.
    Israel's population density is close to 400 capita/square kilometre. Gaza's is ten times that, at over 4,000 capita/square kilometre. This, combined with the limited (and controlled) access to fresh water and crops, and restrictions on fishing - essentially mandates imports for the sake of the flourishing of the Palestinian people. When these restrictions or limitations on access are not lifted, and the flow of goods and services into the territories is still limited, I don't see how this would've seen by the Palestinian people as anything but a means to appease global condemnation. A first step would be associated with a true sign of faith, not a meaningless act meant to silence protesters. This was a very solid effort to make the lives of Israelis easier and less affected by what they seem to deem the cancerous cells of Israel. Rather than maintaining the internal harmony of the country, they could simply isolate anything 'problematic', and ensure its strife and turmoil is unseen and unheard elsewhere in the country.

    Hamas' one-vote/one-time election is only an issue after what Israel deems the appropriate maximum term length ought to be has elapsed (which, given that Netanyahu is on his fourth term, even interrupted by a term out of office, is strange to me). Until that point, the one-vote/one-time election is a moot point.

    Hamas and the PA indeed do not agree ideologically: the PA's stance has been weakened to only have hope for a two-state solution; Hamas have hope for a one-state solution. This has nothing to do with rejectionist viewpoints: it's the simple reality that pushing for a one-state solution and pushing for a two-state solution must have different procedures, so they butt heads. This means that when you say that you believe Hamas is a true obstacle to peace - you should clarify: Hamas is a true obstacle to a two-state solution, inasmuch as the PA is a true obstacle to a one-state solution. Must they align in their goal? Absolutely: pushing for either scenario damages the effort to push for the other.
    Hamas is a true obstacle to peace. Full stop. It does not need to be clarified.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    Only the first three paragraphs deal with your comments. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't think I was making any big leaps...? You made excuses for the appointment - that was my main point. I'm glad youre disgusted, but have to wonder why you only showed up to be nitpicky about my criticism, instead of expressing your disgust...

    I asked BS the question regarding the Israel vs PA coalitions first...still hoping he'll take a shot at that one....

    Sorry for the delay Drowned. That was a great point on the coalitions and you wouldn't be wrong to suggest a double standard. This sort of gets into a "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenerio. As I see it when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza a number of years back that should have been seen as a softening of the Israeli position. I know it didn't come close to satisfying all Palestinian demands but it was certainly a first step and the appropriate response would have been to work peacefully to additional concessions. However, Hamas very quickly instituted a one-vote/one-time election and seized control of Gaza. This became problematic because Hamas and the PA do not agree ideologically. Hamas is completely rejectionist and by their actions has superseded any ability of the PA to negotiate. Many israeli's, including many on the left, now look back at the Gaza withdrawal and ask themselves "is peace even possible...we returned Gaza and it has only gotten worse?". It is this feeling that has moved the Israeli electorate to the right and has resulted in the Israeli coalition. Lastly...as my personal views often get lost in the weeds on here by being everyone's conservative foil...I am not an Israeli apologist as I see fault on all sides. I want a two-state solution of some type. What I absolutely believe though is at this point Hamas is the true obstacle peace. Egypt agrees with this. The PA agrees with this. Unless they are removed you will unfortunately see this Netanyahu coalition for a long long time.
    Israel's population density is close to 400 capita/square kilometre. Gaza's is ten times that, at over 4,000 capita/square kilometre. This, combined with the limited (and controlled) access to fresh water and crops, and restrictions on fishing - essentially mandates imports for the sake of the flourishing of the Palestinian people. When these restrictions or limitations on access are not lifted, and the flow of goods and services into the territories is still limited, I don't see how this would've seen by the Palestinian people as anything but a means to appease global condemnation. A first step would be associated with a true sign of faith, not a meaningless act meant to silence protesters. This was a very solid effort to make the lives of Israelis easier and less affected by what they seem to deem the cancerous cells of Israel. Rather than maintaining the internal harmony of the country, they could simply isolate anything 'problematic', and ensure its strife and turmoil is unseen and unheard elsewhere in the country.

    Hamas' one-vote/one-time election is only an issue after what Israel deems the appropriate maximum term length ought to be has elapsed (which, given that Netanyahu is on his fourth term, even interrupted by a term out of office, is strange to me). Until that point, the one-vote/one-time election is a moot point.

    Hamas and the PA indeed do not agree ideologically: the PA's stance has been weakened to only have hope for a two-state solution; Hamas have hope for a one-state solution. This has nothing to do with rejectionist viewpoints: it's the simple reality that pushing for a one-state solution and pushing for a two-state solution must have different procedures, so they butt heads. This means that when you say that you believe Hamas is a true obstacle to peace - you should clarify: Hamas is a true obstacle to a two-state solution, inasmuch as the PA is a true obstacle to a one-state solution. Must they align in their goal? Absolutely: pushing for either scenario damages the effort to push for the other.
    Hamas is a true obstacle to peace. Full stop. It does not need to be clarified.
    Says the idiot looking in the mirror.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,436
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
    No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.
    israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.
    So here it is all laid out but the battlefield is in Syria.

    http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/05/09/downfall-in-syria/#more-43144

    Saudi and Turkey are helping the sunni extremists take down Assad who is being backed by Hezbollah/Iran

    As this occurs ISIS has also declared war on Hamas

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/195128

    ISIS at the same time is battling with the Muslim Brotherhood as well and we know where Egypt stands on this fight

    http://shoebat.com/2014/08/23/isis-declares-war-hamas-muslim-brotherhood/

    This is the grand battle taking shape against American wishes and I bet Israel is helping the egyptian/saudi/turkey/PA alliance behind the scenes
    against American wishes American wishes? What might they be? No more abortion? Bring Christ back into the classroom? Free guns for everyone? Exploit all natural resources to their logical conclusion of maximized profits for shareholder value? A charter school on every corner? Deep breaths of freedom for everyone willing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? A Humvee in every driveway? American wishes?

    You do realize that ISIS is against everyone, right? There are no common grounds with those guys. So, Iran, according to the article you linked, is going to lose, along with Assad. The Turks and Saudis are taking the lead to vanquish the evil doers. What's your kerfluffle with this? Canada doesn't have a say. Putin's gonna rear his ugly head and benefit? The PA will emerge victorious and threaten Israel? Really, what did you think was going to happen after the Neocons invaded Iraq? Did you really believe that western style democracy would spread across the Middle East like a wild fire, peacefully and tranquil? Please, name me one democracy formed at the end of a barrel of a gun, just one. America, with all it's capabilities, newcleeaire and all, should shudder with fear. How are the Houthis doing by the way? Just wondering as it seems they've temporarily drawn the Saudis to a standstill. Let me know when they're vanquished by the naval blockade, will you please? So Assad falls, then what? Oh, the old domino theory again, right? And then what, I mean, between fracking and oil sands, what do we have to worry about?

    Do you have a sand table in your basement with miniature shuffle board sticks that you use to move the armies along the map of the world, whilst multiple TVs broadcast 24/7 news with terror alerts streaming across the bottom of the screen while you smoke Cuban cigars and drink bourbon? If so, can I come over with my plastic army men?

    You still haven't learned that getting sucked into a tribal religious war that is not a direct threat to the US' security is something to be avoided. Since 1898, which nation has basically been at war up until, well, they're still at war?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
    No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.
    israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.
    So here it is all laid out but the battlefield is in Syria.

    http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/05/09/downfall-in-syria/#more-43144

    Saudi and Turkey are helping the sunni extremists take down Assad who is being backed by Hezbollah/Iran

    As this occurs ISIS has also declared war on Hamas

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/195128

    ISIS at the same time is battling with the Muslim Brotherhood as well and we know where Egypt stands on this fight

    http://shoebat.com/2014/08/23/isis-declares-war-hamas-muslim-brotherhood/

    This is the grand battle taking shape against American wishes and I bet Israel is helping the egyptian/saudi/turkey/PA alliance behind the scenes
    against American wishes American wishes? What might they be? No more abortion? Bring Christ back into the classroom? Free guns for everyone? Exploit all natural resources to their logical conclusion of maximized profits for shareholder value? A charter school on every corner? Deep breaths of freedom for everyone willing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? A Humvee in every driveway? American wishes?

    You do realize that ISIS is against everyone, right? There are no common grounds with those guys. So, Iran, according to the article you linked, is going to lose, along with Assad. The Turks and Saudis are taking the lead to vanquish the evil doers. What's your kerfluffle with this? Canada doesn't have a say. Putin's gonna rear his ugly head and benefit? The PA will emerge victorious and threaten Israel? Really, what did you think was going to happen after the Neocons invaded Iraq? Did you really believe that western style democracy would spread across the Middle East like a wild fire, peacefully and tranquil? Please, name me one democracy formed at the end of a barrel of a gun, just one. America, with all it's capabilities, newcleeaire and all, should shudder with fear. How are the Houthis doing by the way? Just wondering as it seems they've temporarily drawn the Saudis to a standstill. Let me know when they're vanquished by the naval blockade, will you please? So Assad falls, then what? Oh, the old domino theory again, right? And then what, I mean, between fracking and oil sands, what do we have to worry about?

    Do you have a sand table in your basement with miniature shuffle board sticks that you use to move the armies along the map of the world, whilst multiple TVs broadcast 24/7 news with terror alerts streaming across the bottom of the screen while you smoke Cuban cigars and drink bourbon? If so, can I come over with my plastic army men?

    You still haven't learned that getting sucked into a tribal religious war that is not a direct threat to the US' security is something to be avoided. Since 1898, which nation has basically been at war up until, well, they're still at war?
    So called professor getting schooled AGAIN by the student hahaha
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