Or the report that quotes Israeli soldiers as saying it was very loose rules of engagement that allowed the IDF to target Palestinian non combatants and homes. Thanks Bibi, war criminal.
This guy BS is sure working hard trying to show Israel as the beacons of peace. And Iran as the big bad boogie man. You'd almost think he's on someone's payroll.
Why does every Israeli tourism / entertainment site read like total propaganda? Listing previous acts to play there...? Like I've said here before: this is exactly why pj should never play there. You're used as an endorsement for the occupation.
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
Why does every Israeli tourism / entertainment site read like total propaganda? Listing previous acts to play there...? Like I've said here before: this is exactly why pj should never play there. You're used as an endorsement for the occupation.
More and more will follow. I wonder if the U.S. Senators are gonna come up with some "new" law that's gonna take away American citizenship from musicians who boycott playing in Israel.
instructions are to shoot right away,” he told Breaking the Silence, an organization formed by Israeli soldiers opposed to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. “Whoever you spot – be they armed or unarmed, no matter what. The instructions are very clear. Any person you run into, that you see with your eyes – shoot to kill. It’s an explicit instruction.”
Another staff sergeant, who was in an infantry unit in northern Gaza, recalled watching a civilian while he was “writhing in pain.”
“So this old man came over, and the guy manning the post — I don’t know what was going through his head — he saw this civilian, and he fired at him, and he didn’t get a good hit,” the staff sergeant remarked. “The civilian was laying there, writhing in pain.”
He said: “It was clear to everyone that one of two things was going to happen: Either we let him die slowly, or we put him out of his misery. Eventually, we put him out of his misery and a D9 [armored bulldozer] came over and dropped a mound of rubble on him and that was the end of it.”
This guy BS is sure working hard trying to show Israel as the beacons of peace. And Iran as the big bad boogie man. You'd almost think he's on someone's payroll.
In this interview, Athamni clearly discusses the way she is regularly singled out at airports and treated akin to a terrorist. She talks about the fact that her parents fear speaking up about literally anything political out of concern of being jailed or exiled. Of how she can't buy land in Israel although one would think her birthright would allow her to, while a Jewish person immigrating could within a week. I'm sure she'd have a far larger list of injustices had this interview been longer.
If BS or Athamni were trying to show Israel as a beacon of peace in this article, they would have both failed miserably in this case.
The point of this article, from my perspective, is nothing more than showing 'hope'. It's so important not to lose sight of that hope: as I've said too many times to count here, it will not be adversarial behaviours internally which bring peace, it will be universal (i.e. bidirectional) empathy - yes, even from oppressed to oppressors. If Israeli leaders were to study South African apartheid (I'm guessing they do), their paranoid minds would probably not read to the end of the story and see the fact that steps towards equality and reparations were granted: they would stop at the violent upheaval from the less fortunate minority, and begin discussions about how to prevent that.
At the point where the world delivers a crippled economy under extensive sanctions (the logical next step if Israel's path follows that of SA's) with the impending promise of violence (the remaining voice of the oppressed), this will force Israeli leadership's hands to contemplate change and a solution will have to be found. The world hasn't yet squeezed hard enough, but it will. People like Athamni will then be critical to finding a solution that seeks to satisfy Israeli and Palestinian hopes.
I think it's incredibly important that, for anyone who wants peace in the region, we only focus on obstacles when we can contemplate viable ways to get past them. If we can't, then we're only problem-centric - an attitude which simply perpetuates adversarial relationships.
A plumber who shows up and tells me my house is flooding and walks out to head back to the office is problem-centric. One who heads back to his car to get his tools with a theory on how to locate the leak is a solution-centric one. We need to all be there. This is going to sound harsh, but I have no more patience left for anti-Palestinian nor anti-Israeli rhetoric if either are unaccompanied by proposals for change. This does not mean we should shut up (and, in fact, in recognizing problems, it means we are morally obligated to never shut up), this means we need to be more creative and perhaps pivot our perspectives (and of course I'm including myself in this) to consider more angles in our search for justice.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Why does every Israeli tourism / entertainment site read like total propaganda? Listing previous acts to play there...? Like I've said here before: this is exactly why pj should never play there. You're used as an endorsement for the occupation.
To be fair, it is "touristisrael.com". If they're trying to encourage tourism, this is only natural that they'd mention past acts. Our local venue, the Molson Amphitheatre, has huge banners that display large acts that have played there too, but I don't think each of those artists implicitly endorses Canadian politics.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Looks like my post wasn't clear again. I was referring to how he only posts about Israel being a beacon of peace and Iran as the devil. Wasn't talking about his article he posted. And to be honest, I don't read anything he posts cuz after awhile of the same rhetoric, it gets nauseating.
Why does every Israeli tourism / entertainment site read like total propaganda? Listing previous acts to play there...? Like I've said here before: this is exactly why pj should never play there. You're used as an endorsement for the occupation.
To be fair, it is "touristisrael.com". If they're trying to encourage tourism, this is only natural that they'd mention past acts. Our local venue, the Molson Amphitheatre, has huge banners that display large acts that have played there too, but I don't think each of those artists implicitly endorses Canadian politics.
Ya most venues have banners showing past acts...but that's at the venue - different from listing past acts that have played anywhere in the country on their website. I spent five minutes googling venues and tourism sites in Canada and couldn't find anything other than references to the sports teams that play there, and statements like 'top acts from around the world' or whatever. I'm sure there are some that do list past acts, but I don't think it's the norm. Maybe I'm being hyper-sensitive here, but every time I talk BDS online, someone trots out a list of performers who have visited Israel. And I know the banners you reference don't mean the endorsement of Canadian politics. To a degree, it doesn't mean the artists playing Israel endorse the occupation (although with the BDS movement launching campaigns against them, and...the news....you have to at least turn a blind eye to the occupation if you play there).....but that's my point - once you play there, you will be trotted out on these lists forever - the implication being that it's ok to play there because so-n-so has. Normalization. Anyway, kudos to Lauryn Hill.
Looks like my post wasn't clear again. I was referring to how he only posts about Israel being a beacon of peace and Iran as the devil. Wasn't talking about his article he posted. And to be honest, I don't read anything he posts cuz after awhile of the same rhetoric, it gets nauseating.
My apologies, my friend - was my misunderstanding!
The conversation the other day about judging on the merit of a post, rather than a poster, comes into play here for me. Whether I think it's a crock of shit or not, I think we owe it to each other to read things that any of us deems valuable. I am adamantly opposed to most of what BS says. But I've still learned from it - sometimes there's a nuanced detail buried deep in it worth considering.
And Kyle - you're right, as usual! Especially because I've seen musicians explicitly state when they play in Israel that they are playing as a unifying act (music), and don't wish for their presence to be a political statement. The problem is, that statement of "this is exclusively for music's sake and don't condone or condemn Israeli actions through my presence" doesn't make it onto touristisrael.com's list.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
And Kyle - you're right, as usual! Especially because I've seen musicians explicitly state when they play in Israel that they are playing as a unifying act (music), and don't wish for their presence to be a political statement. The problem is, that statement of "this is exclusively for music's sake and don't condone or condemn Israeli actions through my presence" doesn't make it onto touristisrael.com's list.
Neither of us are right nor wrong here amigo. Just having a conversation.
I found it interesting that Hill wanted to play Ramallahh but found it 'difficult' to do so. Curious what she meant by that. I also didnt realize the boycott movement was against this (from the ei article I posted above) :
Hill’s strategy of seeking to offset the Israel show with one before a Palestinian audience in Ramallah in the occupied West Bank will likely raise concerns.
In its guidelines for the cultural boycott, PACBI states that artists “attempting to visit Palestinian institutions or groups in a ‘balancing’ gesture contribute to the false perception of symmetry between the colonial oppressor and the colonized.”
While Palestinians welcome visits, PACBI says that “solidarity entails respecting the boycott call, which is an authoritative call of the oppressed, and not combining a visit to Palestinian institutions or groups with activities with boycottable Israeli institutions.”
Everything's a security risk whenever someone wants to bring some joy into the Palestinians lives. Amazing that they're prisoners on their own land. What a shame
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
I'm also curious why exactly you object to negative comments concerning Iran?
I'm also curious why exactly you object to negative comments concerning Israel? See what I did there? No different from you.
I don't believe what the mass media is selling people on Iran. I do my own readings and decide what I find to believe. I have issues with every country yosi, I don't just single out one.
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
instructions are to shoot right away,” he told Breaking the Silence, an organization formed by Israeli soldiers opposed to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. “Whoever you spot – be they armed or unarmed, no matter what. The instructions are very clear. Any person you run into, that you see with your eyes – shoot to kill. It’s an explicit instruction.”
Another staff sergeant, who was in an infantry unit in northern Gaza, recalled watching a civilian while he was “writhing in pain.”
“So this old man came over, and the guy manning the post — I don’t know what was going through his head — he saw this civilian, and he fired at him, and he didn’t get a good hit,” the staff sergeant remarked. “The civilian was laying there, writhing in pain.”
He said: “It was clear to everyone that one of two things was going to happen: Either we let him die slowly, or we put him out of his misery. Eventually, we put him out of his misery and a D9 [armored bulldozer] came over and dropped a mound of rubble on him and that was the end of it.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
You don't read my posts which is why your hysterical mischaracterization of my thoughts are always way off the mark.
I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.
As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
You don't read my posts which is why your hysterical mischaracterization of my thoughts are always way off the mark.
I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.
As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
Oh so it's the Palestinians who canceled the show? Fuck out of here. Stop being a Fucken phoney. We all know who controls what in that region. We all know it was Israel who said NO to the show in Ramallah.
Again, I don't give a flying fuck about any articles you post because by now, it's the same Fucken story. Maybe u mite throw in a little kosher story to make it look like you Fucken care. But you don't. Now you got a Fucken hard on because someone is actually speaking on your behalf. Awesome, finally someone with similar views. It's comical how you think we're all reading your posts wrong and that u never wanted a war with Iran, blah blah blah. Yet most of came to that conclusion about you. You get ripped on what you post and slither your way out of answering questions the smart people in this forum have been asking you. You try to be funny in your responses acting like you're winning the "battles", like you're the professor and we're the students. Ya that's working out for ya real good.
I would've let this shit between us go a long time ago. But when you made that remark about yellow stars, you Fucken crossed the line. I'm not gonna flag you and have you banned because I'm not a rat. But I will keep you in check and call you out whenever I see the need to. I also know you have a thing exclusively for me. Must suck being schooled by many folks ey professor?
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
Except that Palestinians support the BDS movement, and if it is part of the charter of that movement that playing both Israel and the OT is normalization of the occupation, then they would obviously prefer to get the point across than enjoy said entertainment. So it is no loss to them. As for BDS not mattering, and not improving Palestinian lives...there is precedent to say that BDS does matter, and the awareness the campaign has raised (as evidenced by it's growing support, esp on college campuses worldwide), continues to shine negative light on Israel. Israel has had to implement new laws against BDS, which shows their concern. Time will tell what the end results are, but people who so vehemently oppose the violent opposition of groups like Hamas should support the Palestinians non-violent efforts to win either the state they are entitled to, or equal rights in an ISraeli state.....unless, of course, your goal is an ethnically cleansed Israel.
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
You don't read my posts which is why your hysterical mischaracterization of my thoughts are always way off the mark.
I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.
As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
Oh so it's the Palestinians who canceled the show? Fuck out of here. Stop being a Fucken phoney. We all know who controls what in that region. We all know it was Israel who said NO to the show in Ramallah.
Again, I don't give a flying fuck about any articles you post because by now, it's the same Fucken story. Maybe u mite throw in a little kosher story to make it look like you Fucken care. But you don't. Now you got a Fucken hard on because someone is actually speaking on your behalf. Awesome, finally someone with similar views. It's comical how you think we're all reading your posts wrong and that u never wanted a war with Iran, blah blah blah. Yet most of came to that conclusion about you. You get ripped on what you post and slither your way out of answering questions the smart people in this forum have been asking you. You try to be funny in your responses acting like you're winning the "battles", like you're the professor and we're the students. Ya that's working out for ya real good.
I would've let this shit between us go a long time ago. But when you made that remark about yellow stars, you Fucken crossed the line. I'm not gonna flag you and have you banned because I'm not a rat. But I will keep you in check and call you out whenever I see the need to. I also know you have a thing exclusively for me. Must suck being schooled by many folks ey professor?
I think that it's possible that Israeli leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah. I also think it's possible that Palestinian leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah who also opt to play in Israel. As Kyle said, this would be perceived as normalization of the occupation. This seems like an 'entertainment strike' rather than a 'hunger strike'. Thankfully, that's a lot less harmful. And BS, I'd absolutely chalk that up to a victory for the BDS movement, as it made Lauryn Hill retreat from playing Israel, and more importantly - it was a public retreat with the mention of the fact that there were intentions of playing in the Palestinian territories as well.
For the record Nart, I don't think for a minute that that yellow star comment would ever represent your intentions nor your actions. You're a good guy and I know it.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
You don't read my posts which is why your hysterical mischaracterization of my thoughts are always way off the mark.
I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.
As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
Oh so it's the Palestinians who canceled the show? Fuck out of here. Stop being a Fucken phoney. We all know who controls what in that region. We all know it was Israel who said NO to the show in Ramallah.
Again, I don't give a flying fuck about any articles you post because by now, it's the same Fucken story. Maybe u mite throw in a little kosher story to make it look like you Fucken care. But you don't. Now you got a Fucken hard on because someone is actually speaking on your behalf. Awesome, finally someone with similar views. It's comical how you think we're all reading your posts wrong and that u never wanted a war with Iran, blah blah blah. Yet most of came to that conclusion about you. You get ripped on what you post and slither your way out of answering questions the smart people in this forum have been asking you. You try to be funny in your responses acting like you're winning the "battles", like you're the professor and we're the students. Ya that's working out for ya real good.
I would've let this shit between us go a long time ago. But when you made that remark about yellow stars, you Fucken crossed the line. I'm not gonna flag you and have you banned because I'm not a rat. But I will keep you in check and call you out whenever I see the need to. I also know you have a thing exclusively for me. Must suck being schooled by many folks ey professor?
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
Except that Palestinians support the BDS movement, and if it is part of the charter of that movement that playing both Israel and the OT is normalization of the occupation, then they would obviously prefer to get the point across than enjoy said entertainment. So it is no loss to them. As for BDS not mattering, and not improving Palestinian lives...there is precedent to say that BDS does matter, and the awareness the campaign has raised (as evidenced by it's growing support, esp on college campuses worldwide), continues to shine negative light on Israel. Israel has had to implement new laws against BDS, which shows their concern. Time will tell what the end results are, but people who so vehemently oppose the violent opposition of groups like Hamas should support the Palestinians non-violent efforts to win either the state they are entitled to, or equal rights in an ISraeli state.....unless, of course, your goal is an ethnically cleansed Israel.
Absolutely not my goal and no one should be confused about that. Also while I happen to disagree with the BDS movement I certainly support that type of movement over the violence of Hamas. As I have said countless times my biggest problem are those who embrace Hamas over the moderate factions.
Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.
What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
You don't read my posts which is why your hysterical mischaracterization of my thoughts are always way off the mark.
I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.
As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
Oh so it's the Palestinians who canceled the show? Fuck out of here. Stop being a Fucken phoney. We all know who controls what in that region. We all know it was Israel who said NO to the show in Ramallah.
Again, I don't give a flying fuck about any articles you post because by now, it's the same Fucken story. Maybe u mite throw in a little kosher story to make it look like you Fucken care. But you don't. Now you got a Fucken hard on because someone is actually speaking on your behalf. Awesome, finally someone with similar views. It's comical how you think we're all reading your posts wrong and that u never wanted a war with Iran, blah blah blah. Yet most of came to that conclusion about you. You get ripped on what you post and slither your way out of answering questions the smart people in this forum have been asking you. You try to be funny in your responses acting like you're winning the "battles", like you're the professor and we're the students. Ya that's working out for ya real good.
I would've let this shit between us go a long time ago. But when you made that remark about yellow stars, you Fucken crossed the line. I'm not gonna flag you and have you banned because I'm not a rat. But I will keep you in check and call you out whenever I see the need to. I also know you have a thing exclusively for me. Must suck being schooled by many folks ey professor?
I think that it's possible that Israeli leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah. I also think it's possible that Palestinian leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah who also opt to play in Israel. As Kyle said, this would be perceived as normalization of the occupation. This seems like an 'entertainment strike' rather than a 'hunger strike'. Thankfully, that's a lot less harmful. And BS, I'd absolutely chalk that up to a victory for the BDS movement, as it made Lauryn Hill retreat from playing Israel, and more importantly - it was a public retreat with the mention of the fact that there were intentions of playing in the Palestinian territories as well.
For the record Nart, I don't think for a minute that that yellow star comment would ever represent your intentions nor your actions. You're a good guy and I know it.
It is the shallowest of victories. Her message is one of peace and the BDS movement spit on it just like they spit on Eddie when he clarified his words as being those of "No War".
Comments
http://www.themedialine.org/women/israeli-arab-is-the-face-of-israel-as-first-un-youth-delegate-2/
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
About those great upcoming shows:
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/lauryn-hill-cancels-israel-show-after-palestinian-boycott-call
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/patrick-strickland/israeli-soldiers-ordered-kill-civilians-gaza-says-breaking-silence
From the article:
instructions are to shoot right away,” he told Breaking the Silence, an organization formed by Israeli soldiers opposed to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. “Whoever you spot – be they armed or unarmed, no matter what. The instructions are very clear. Any person you run into, that you see with your eyes – shoot to kill. It’s an explicit instruction.”
Another staff sergeant, who was in an infantry unit in northern Gaza, recalled watching a civilian while he was “writhing in pain.”
“So this old man came over, and the guy manning the post — I don’t know what was going through his head — he saw this civilian, and he fired at him, and he didn’t get a good hit,” the staff sergeant remarked. “The civilian was laying there, writhing in pain.”
He said: “It was clear to everyone that one of two things was going to happen: Either we let him die slowly, or we put him out of his misery. Eventually, we put him out of his misery and a D9 [armored bulldozer] came over and dropped a mound of rubble on him and that was the end of it.”
If BS or Athamni were trying to show Israel as a beacon of peace in this article, they would have both failed miserably in this case.
The point of this article, from my perspective, is nothing more than showing 'hope'. It's so important not to lose sight of that hope: as I've said too many times to count here, it will not be adversarial behaviours internally which bring peace, it will be universal (i.e. bidirectional) empathy - yes, even from oppressed to oppressors. If Israeli leaders were to study South African apartheid (I'm guessing they do), their paranoid minds would probably not read to the end of the story and see the fact that steps towards equality and reparations were granted: they would stop at the violent upheaval from the less fortunate minority, and begin discussions about how to prevent that.
At the point where the world delivers a crippled economy under extensive sanctions (the logical next step if Israel's path follows that of SA's) with the impending promise of violence (the remaining voice of the oppressed), this will force Israeli leadership's hands to contemplate change and a solution will have to be found. The world hasn't yet squeezed hard enough, but it will. People like Athamni will then be critical to finding a solution that seeks to satisfy Israeli and Palestinian hopes.
I think it's incredibly important that, for anyone who wants peace in the region, we only focus on obstacles when we can contemplate viable ways to get past them. If we can't, then we're only problem-centric - an attitude which simply perpetuates adversarial relationships.
A plumber who shows up and tells me my house is flooding and walks out to head back to the office is problem-centric. One who heads back to his car to get his tools with a theory on how to locate the leak is a solution-centric one. We need to all be there. This is going to sound harsh, but I have no more patience left for anti-Palestinian nor anti-Israeli rhetoric if either are unaccompanied by proposals for change. This does not mean we should shut up (and, in fact, in recognizing problems, it means we are morally obligated to never shut up), this means we need to be more creative and perhaps pivot our perspectives (and of course I'm including myself in this) to consider more angles in our search for justice.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Maybe I'm being hyper-sensitive here, but every time I talk BDS online, someone trots out a list of performers who have visited Israel. And I know the banners you reference don't mean the endorsement of Canadian politics. To a degree, it doesn't mean the artists playing Israel endorse the occupation (although with the BDS movement launching campaigns against them, and...the news....you have to at least turn a blind eye to the occupation if you play there).....but that's my point - once you play there, you will be trotted out on these lists forever - the implication being that it's ok to play there because so-n-so has. Normalization.
Anyway, kudos to Lauryn Hill.
The conversation the other day about judging on the merit of a post, rather than a poster, comes into play here for me. Whether I think it's a crock of shit or not, I think we owe it to each other to read things that any of us deems valuable. I am adamantly opposed to most of what BS says. But I've still learned from it - sometimes there's a nuanced detail buried deep in it worth considering.
And Kyle - you're right, as usual! Especially because I've seen musicians explicitly state when they play in Israel that they are playing as a unifying act (music), and don't wish for their presence to be a political statement. The problem is, that statement of "this is exclusively for music's sake and don't condone or condemn Israeli actions through my presence" doesn't make it onto touristisrael.com's list.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I found it interesting that Hill wanted to play Ramallahh but found it 'difficult' to do so. Curious what she meant by that. I also didnt realize the boycott movement was against this (from the ei article I posted above) :
Hill’s strategy of seeking to offset the Israel show with one before a Palestinian audience in Ramallah in the occupied West Bank will likely raise concerns.
In its guidelines for the cultural boycott, PACBI states that artists “attempting to visit Palestinian institutions or groups in a ‘balancing’ gesture contribute to the false perception of symmetry between the colonial oppressor and the colonized.”
While Palestinians welcome visits, PACBI says that “solidarity entails respecting the boycott call, which is an authoritative call of the oppressed, and not combining a visit to Palestinian institutions or groups with activities with boycottable Israeli institutions.”
I don't believe what the mass media is selling people on Iran. I do my own readings and decide what I find to believe. I have issues with every country yosi, I don't just single out one.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.
As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
Again, I don't give a flying fuck about any articles you post because by now, it's the same Fucken story. Maybe u mite throw in a little kosher story to make it look like you Fucken care. But you don't. Now you got a Fucken hard on because someone is actually speaking on your behalf. Awesome, finally someone with similar views. It's comical how you think we're all reading your posts wrong and that u never wanted a war with Iran, blah blah blah. Yet most of came to that conclusion about you. You get ripped on what you post and slither your way out of answering questions the smart people in this forum have been asking you. You try to be funny in your responses acting like you're winning the "battles", like you're the professor and we're the students. Ya that's working out for ya real good.
I would've let this shit between us go a long time ago. But when you made that remark about yellow stars, you Fucken crossed the line. I'm not gonna flag you and have you banned because I'm not a rat. But I will keep you in check and call you out whenever I see the need to. I also know you have a thing exclusively for me. Must suck being schooled by many folks ey professor?
As for BDS not mattering, and not improving Palestinian lives...there is precedent to say that BDS does matter, and the awareness the campaign has raised (as evidenced by it's growing support, esp on college campuses worldwide), continues to shine negative light on Israel. Israel has had to implement new laws against BDS, which shows their concern. Time will tell what the end results are, but people who so vehemently oppose the violent opposition of groups like Hamas should support the Palestinians non-violent efforts to win either the state they are entitled to, or equal rights in an ISraeli state.....unless, of course, your goal is an ethnically cleansed Israel.
For the record Nart, I don't think for a minute that that yellow star comment would ever represent your intentions nor your actions. You're a good guy and I know it.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1