Meanwhile back in Israel

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Comments

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.

    What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
    His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
    Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
    You don't read my posts which is why your hysterical mischaracterization of my thoughts are always way off the mark.

    I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.

    As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
    Oh so it's the Palestinians who canceled the show? Fuck out of here. Stop being a Fucken phoney. We all know who controls what in that region. We all know it was Israel who said NO to the show in Ramallah.

    Again, I don't give a flying fuck about any articles you post because by now, it's the same Fucken story. Maybe u mite throw in a little kosher story to make it look like you Fucken care. But you don't. Now you got a Fucken hard on because someone is actually speaking on your behalf. Awesome, finally someone with similar views. It's comical how you think we're all reading your posts wrong and that u never wanted a war with Iran, blah blah blah. Yet most of came to that conclusion about you. You get ripped on what you post and slither your way out of answering questions the smart people in this forum have been asking you. You try to be funny in your responses acting like you're winning the "battles", like you're the professor and we're the students. Ya that's working out for ya real good.

    I would've let this shit between us go a long time ago. But when you made that remark about yellow stars, you Fucken crossed the line. I'm not gonna flag you and have you banned because I'm not a rat. But I will keep you in check and call you out whenever I see the need to. I also know you have a thing exclusively for me. Must suck being schooled by many folks ey professor?
    I think that it's possible that Israeli leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah. I also think it's possible that Palestinian leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah who also opt to play in Israel. As Kyle said, this would be perceived as normalization of the occupation. This seems like an 'entertainment strike' rather than a 'hunger strike'. Thankfully, that's a lot less harmful. And BS, I'd absolutely chalk that up to a victory for the BDS movement, as it made Lauryn Hill retreat from playing Israel, and more importantly - it was a public retreat with the mention of the fact that there were intentions of playing in the Palestinian territories as well.

    For the record Nart, I don't think for a minute that that yellow star comment would ever represent your intentions nor your actions. You're a good guy and I know it.
    It is the shallowest of victories. Her message is one of peace and the BDS movement spit on it just like they spit on Eddie when he clarified his words as being those of "No War".
    Another denier. No surprise. Vedder was speaking about Israel when he went off at Milton keys. The people of that country even said so. Guy got death threats to his family and sort of "back tracked."
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    benjs said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.

    What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
    His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
    Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
    You don't read my posts which is why your hysterical mischaracterization of my thoughts are always way off the mark.

    I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.

    As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
    Oh so it's the Palestinians who canceled the show? Fuck out of here. Stop being a Fucken phoney. We all know who controls what in that region. We all know it was Israel who said NO to the show in Ramallah.

    Again, I don't give a flying fuck about any articles you post because by now, it's the same Fucken story. Maybe u mite throw in a little kosher story to make it look like you Fucken care. But you don't. Now you got a Fucken hard on because someone is actually speaking on your behalf. Awesome, finally someone with similar views. It's comical how you think we're all reading your posts wrong and that u never wanted a war with Iran, blah blah blah. Yet most of came to that conclusion about you. You get ripped on what you post and slither your way out of answering questions the smart people in this forum have been asking you. You try to be funny in your responses acting like you're winning the "battles", like you're the professor and we're the students. Ya that's working out for ya real good.

    I would've let this shit between us go a long time ago. But when you made that remark about yellow stars, you Fucken crossed the line. I'm not gonna flag you and have you banned because I'm not a rat. But I will keep you in check and call you out whenever I see the need to. I also know you have a thing exclusively for me. Must suck being schooled by many folks ey professor?
    I think that it's possible that Israeli leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah. I also think it's possible that Palestinian leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah who also opt to play in Israel. As Kyle said, this would be perceived as normalization of the occupation. This seems like an 'entertainment strike' rather than a 'hunger strike'. Thankfully, that's a lot less harmful. And BS, I'd absolutely chalk that up to a victory for the BDS movement, as it made Lauryn Hill retreat from playing Israel, and more importantly - it was a public retreat with the mention of the fact that there were intentions of playing in the Palestinian territories as well.

    For the record Nart, I don't think for a minute that that yellow star comment would ever represent your intentions nor your actions. You're a good guy and I know it.
    Thanks Ben, I appreciate those kind words very much. Means a lot buddy.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,483
    edited May 2015
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.

    What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
    His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
    Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
    You don't read my posts which is why your hysterical mischaracterization of my thoughts are always way off the mark.

    I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.

    As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
    Oh so it's the Palestinians who canceled the show? Fuck out of here. Stop being a Fucken phoney. We all know who controls what in that region. We all know it was Israel who said NO to the show in Ramallah.

    Again, I don't give a flying fuck about any articles you post because by now, it's the same Fucken story. Maybe u mite throw in a little kosher story to make it look like you Fucken care. But you don't. Now you got a Fucken hard on because someone is actually speaking on your behalf. Awesome, finally someone with similar views. It's comical how you think we're all reading your posts wrong and that u never wanted a war with Iran, blah blah blah. Yet most of came to that conclusion about you. You get ripped on what you post and slither your way out of answering questions the smart people in this forum have been asking you. You try to be funny in your responses acting like you're winning the "battles", like you're the professor and we're the students. Ya that's working out for ya real good.

    I would've let this shit between us go a long time ago. But when you made that remark about yellow stars, you Fucken crossed the line. I'm not gonna flag you and have you banned because I'm not a rat. But I will keep you in check and call you out whenever I see the need to. I also know you have a thing exclusively for me. Must suck being schooled by many folks ey professor?
    I think that it's possible that Israeli leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah. I also think it's possible that Palestinian leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah who also opt to play in Israel. As Kyle said, this would be perceived as normalization of the occupation. This seems like an 'entertainment strike' rather than a 'hunger strike'. Thankfully, that's a lot less harmful. And BS, I'd absolutely chalk that up to a victory for the BDS movement, as it made Lauryn Hill retreat from playing Israel, and more importantly - it was a public retreat with the mention of the fact that there were intentions of playing in the Palestinian territories as well.

    For the record Nart, I don't think for a minute that that yellow star comment would ever represent your intentions nor your actions. You're a good guy and I know it.
    It is the shallowest of victories. Her message is one of peace and the BDS movement spit on it just like they spit on Eddie when he clarified his words as being those of "No War".
    You criticize violent acts of protest, and now you criticize silent acts of protest. What's left?

    South African apartheid is the closest example in recent history to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and what effect would you say a pacifist concert held in black South Africa and one in white South Africa would have had in terms of applying sanctions? The world would say "see? Everything is good in both black and white South Africa, no need to worry".
    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.

    What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
    His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
    Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.


    As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
    Except that Palestinians support the BDS movement, and if it is part of the charter of that movement that playing both Israel and the OT is normalization of the occupation, then they would obviously prefer to get the point across than enjoy said entertainment. So it is no loss to them.
    As for BDS not mattering, and not improving Palestinian lives...there is precedent to say that BDS does matter, and the awareness the campaign has raised (as evidenced by it's growing support, esp on college campuses worldwide), continues to shine negative light on Israel. Israel has had to implement new laws against BDS, which shows their concern. Time will tell what the end results are, but people who so vehemently oppose the violent opposition of groups like Hamas should support the Palestinians non-violent efforts to win either the state they are entitled to, or equal rights in an ISraeli state.....unless, of course, your goal is an ethnically cleansed Israel.
    Absolutely not my goal and no one should be confused about that. Also while I happen to disagree with the BDS movement I certainly support that type of movement over the violence of Hamas. As I have said countless times my biggest problem are those who embrace Hamas over the moderate factions.
    So what IS your goal? Four choices: 1. one state with equal rights for all people. 2. Two states, with Palestinian self-governance. 3. An ethnically cleansed Israel with no 'demographic threat'. 4.The status quo; indefinite occupation and oppression.
    If you don't support BDS, nor violent resistance....what DO you support as far as Palestinian protest goes? Because to me it sounds like you don't support any resistance. YOu seem to think that the Palestinians will get what they want once they stop the violence coming from their side. We all know that isn't true. If you disagree, read up on the belief systems of the politicians referenced below.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

    - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.xk22Px0N.dpuf
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

    The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

    And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

    And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

    A week before, Shaked wrote another status insisting

    This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.

    These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.

    Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

    Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

    The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

    Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

    Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.


  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    continued....

    The Most Right-Wing Government in Israeli History
    Bennett plays an important role in Netanyahu’s coalition government. He pressured the prime minister to appoint Shaked as justice minister. Netanyahu needed a majority of seats in the 120-member Knesset in order to form a government. Bennett refused to have HaBayit HaYehudi—which had the extra eight seats needed, beyond the 53 Bibi had already established, for a majority—join unless Shaked was given the justice ministry position. Netanyahu conceded, on the conditions that she does not appoint rabbinical judges and does not head the committee overseeing the nomination of new judges.

    Extreme-right leader Avigdor Lieberman, the former Israeli foreign minister who called for the beheading of disloyal Palestinians, unexpectedly announced that his Yisrael Beiteinu party, which has six MKs, would refuse to join the new government. Lieberman argued the coalition is not right-wing enough, as he believed it will not pass the so-called “nationality law,” officially defining citizenship based on Jewish ethno-religious heritage—thus turning non-Jewish Israelis into official, de jure second-class citizens—or that it will not go all out to destroy the elected Hamas government of Gaza. Netanyahu thus gave into Bennett’s demands in order to ensure the majority.

    With HaBayit HaYehudi, Netanyahu’s coalition has 61 seats, a slight majority. His ruling right-wing Likud party has 30; the right-wing Kulanu party has 10 seats; HaBayit HaYehudi has eight; the ultra-orthodox religious party Shas has seven; and the other ultra-orthodox religious party United Torah Judaism has six seats.

    Netanyahu’s fourth government is even further to the right of his previous ones. Many Israelis are concerned, and have characterized the new government as “Bibi’s all-time worst coalition.”

    In response to Netanyahu’s appointment of Shaked, head of the Peace Now organization Yariv Oppenheimer commented, “Shaked as Justice Minister is like placing an idol in the Temple. No less.” MK Nachman Shai, of the Zionist Union, remarked “the demand to give Ayelet Shaked the Justice portfolio is like giving the Fire and Rescue Services to a pyromaniac.”

    Arutz Sheva, an Israeli news outlet associated with the settler movement, notes “Shaked is expected to tackle leftists inside the judicial system head on.” The publication also characterizes her appointment as an “historic” and “major political coup,” writing

    Shaked’s appointment is considered a major political coup and could potentially pave the way for an historic change in Israeli politics. The judicial system in Israel is considered to be the strongest governmental bastion of the leftist founding elites, and its “activism” has hampered attempts by the Right to effectively rule Israel for decades.

    The extreme views of Shaked and Bennett are not limited to their party. Other powerful figures in Netanyahu’s government harbor similar ideas. During Israel’s summer 2014 attack, codenamed “Operation Protective Edge,” deputy speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin, a senior figure in Bibi’s Likud party, called for Israel to “concentrate” and “exterminate” Palestinians in Gaza.

    An independent investigation into Operation Protective Edge found Israel deliberately targeted civilians and medical workers and used unconventional weapons. After eight months of interviewing over 60 Israeli soldiers and officers who participated in the assault, Israeli veterans organization Breaking the Silence also discovered that “soldiers were briefed by their commanders to fire at every person they identified in a combat zone.” Soldiers say they were ordered to “shoot to kill” “any person you see,” including civilians.

    Prime Minister Netanyahu and many of his political peers have continuously referred to the Israel Defense Forces as “the most moral army in the world.” Israeli soldiers recall shooting Palestinian civilians in Gaza because they were “bored.”
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,921
    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.

    What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
    His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
    Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.
    You don't read my posts which is why your hysterical mischaracterization of my thoughts are always way off the mark.

    I posted an article about an Israeli Arab who speaks both positively and negatively about Israel. The article does not whitewash anything.

    As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
    Oh so it's the Palestinians who canceled the show? Fuck out of here. Stop being a Fucken phoney. We all know who controls what in that region. We all know it was Israel who said NO to the show in Ramallah.

    Again, I don't give a flying fuck about any articles you post because by now, it's the same Fucken story. Maybe u mite throw in a little kosher story to make it look like you Fucken care. But you don't. Now you got a Fucken hard on because someone is actually speaking on your behalf. Awesome, finally someone with similar views. It's comical how you think we're all reading your posts wrong and that u never wanted a war with Iran, blah blah blah. Yet most of came to that conclusion about you. You get ripped on what you post and slither your way out of answering questions the smart people in this forum have been asking you. You try to be funny in your responses acting like you're winning the "battles", like you're the professor and we're the students. Ya that's working out for ya real good.

    I would've let this shit between us go a long time ago. But when you made that remark about yellow stars, you Fucken crossed the line. I'm not gonna flag you and have you banned because I'm not a rat. But I will keep you in check and call you out whenever I see the need to. I also know you have a thing exclusively for me. Must suck being schooled by many folks ey professor?
    I think that it's possible that Israeli leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah. I also think it's possible that Palestinian leadership could introduce friction to artists who want to play in Ramallah who also opt to play in Israel. As Kyle said, this would be perceived as normalization of the occupation. This seems like an 'entertainment strike' rather than a 'hunger strike'. Thankfully, that's a lot less harmful. And BS, I'd absolutely chalk that up to a victory for the BDS movement, as it made Lauryn Hill retreat from playing Israel, and more importantly - it was a public retreat with the mention of the fact that there were intentions of playing in the Palestinian territories as well.

    For the record Nart, I don't think for a minute that that yellow star comment would ever represent your intentions nor your actions. You're a good guy and I know it.
    It is the shallowest of victories. Her message is one of peace and the BDS movement spit on it just like they spit on Eddie when he clarified his words as being those of "No War".
    You criticize violent acts of protest, and now you criticize silent acts of protest. What's left?

    South African apartheid is the closest example in recent history to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and what effect would you say a pacifist concert held in black South Africa and one in white South Africa would have had in terms of applying sanctions? The world would say "see? Everything is good in both black and white South Africa, no need to worry".
    I don't criticize silent acts of protest but I just don't happen to think BDS is effective because it dodges the main issue which is Hamas and the other Israel rejectionists. Palestinians have a right to protest but they also must clean out the poison within their movement. To do one without the other is useless. Israel will never budge on any issue as long as their security is threatened. You might not like this but it is reality.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,921

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Please don't do that. Disagree with him (or me) all you like. Stop with the insinuations. It's gross.

    What's telling is that you find my insinuations gross yet don't seem to mind him spreading all these scare tactics and fear. For someone claiming to want peace, I'd think that would be more of an issue then me saying he's on some payroll. Just saying.
    His last post before you insinuated that he's "on some payroll" was a link to a story about an Israeli Arab girl doing good. How exactly is that spreading scare tactics and fear?
    Like I've said before, BS has lost any credibility with me a long time ago. So I tend to basically ignore articles he posts. I'm so used to the Iran/Islam bashing that I don't need to read more articles from him on said subjects.


    As far as Lauryn Hill is concerned...she pretty much has a similar position to Eddie. "No war". She wants peaceful coexistence among everyone. She tried to set up a concert in Ramallah as well as the plan was to bridge the divide through her music. Of course she was not allowed/able to setup a show in Ramallah because the powers that be would prefer there be no show in Israel at all even if that meant Ramallah would not get one as well. If you would like to chalk that up as a victory for the BDS movement then so be it but to me it is a loss for everyone and especially the people of the Palestinian territories who deserve some plain old entertainment as well. Israel will survive every cancellation...it will not matter...and Palestinian lives will sadly not be improved by this one bit.
    Except that Palestinians support the BDS movement, and if it is part of the charter of that movement that playing both Israel and the OT is normalization of the occupation, then they would obviously prefer to get the point across than enjoy said entertainment. So it is no loss to them.
    As for BDS not mattering, and not improving Palestinian lives...there is precedent to say that BDS does matter, and the awareness the campaign has raised (as evidenced by it's growing support, esp on college campuses worldwide), continues to shine negative light on Israel. Israel has had to implement new laws against BDS, which shows their concern. Time will tell what the end results are, but people who so vehemently oppose the violent opposition of groups like Hamas should support the Palestinians non-violent efforts to win either the state they are entitled to, or equal rights in an ISraeli state.....unless, of course, your goal is an ethnically cleansed Israel.
    Absolutely not my goal and no one should be confused about that. Also while I happen to disagree with the BDS movement I certainly support that type of movement over the violence of Hamas. As I have said countless times my biggest problem are those who embrace Hamas over the moderate factions.
    So what IS your goal? Four choices: 1. one state with equal rights for all people. 2. Two states, with Palestinian self-governance. 3. An ethnically cleansed Israel with no 'demographic threat'. 4.The status quo; indefinite occupation and oppression.
    If you don't support BDS, nor violent resistance....what DO you support as far as Palestinian protest goes? Because to me it sounds like you don't support any resistance. YOu seem to think that the Palestinians will get what they want once they stop the violence coming from their side. We all know that isn't true. If you disagree, read up on the belief systems of the politicians referenced below.
    I am for two states. The exact make up of each is not that important too me but I do believe one state needs to remain a jewish state in some capacity with a protection for minorities. Again...I am ok with peaceful protest of any kind but I just think a boycott will be ineffective in the long run without elimination of the palestinian rejectionists.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,921

    Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

    - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.xk22Px0N.dpuf
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

    The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

    And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

    And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

    A week before, Shaked wrote another status insisting

    This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.

    These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.

    Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

    Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

    The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

    Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

    Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

    - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.xk22Px0N.dpuf
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

    The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

    And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

    And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

    A week before, Shaked wrote another status insisting

    This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.

    These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.

    Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

    Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

    The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

    Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

    Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,921
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

    - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.xk22Px0N.dpuf
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

    The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

    And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

    And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

    A week before, Shaked wrote another status insisting

    This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.

    These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.

    Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

    Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

    The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

    Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

    Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,483
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

    - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.xk22Px0N.dpuf
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

    The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

    And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

    And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

    A week before, Shaked wrote another status insisting

    This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.

    These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.

    Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

    Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

    The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

    Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

    Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

    - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.xk22Px0N.dpuf
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

    The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

    And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

    And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

    A week before, Shaked wrote another status insisting

    This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.

    These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.

    Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

    Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

    The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

    Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

    Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    I'm not your "buddy" nor will I ever be. I don't associate with war mongers.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited May 2015
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

    - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.xk22Px0N.dpuf
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

    The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

    And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

    And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

    A week before, Shaked wrote another status insisting

    This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.

    These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.

    Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

    Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

    The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

    Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

    Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    And the Israeli government doesn't accept the right of the Palestinians to exist. Kind of fucked up. But I wouldn't expect you to understand.

    Edit-war monger has brought this up again about Hamas saying Israel doesn't have the right to exist. And people have posted numerous times that that just isn't true. Guess if you say over and over again, it must be true.
    Post edited by badbrains on
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,921
    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

    - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.xk22Px0N.dpuf
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

    The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

    And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

    And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

    A week before, Shaked wrote another status insisting

    This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.

    These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.

    Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

    Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

    The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

    Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

    Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.
    Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,483
    edited May 2015
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.
    Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.
    Who owns the living room? I suppose my analogy is incomplete: we were both born and raised (and live together) in the house. We've seen landlords come and go who care not who lives there.
    I complain to Joe, the current landlord, "My wife Mary hits me in the head with a frying pan every time I see her without any provocation, and she follows me everywhere I go outside of this house - so I want some of this place as a safe refuge. Also, even in here, I don't like the way BS lives his life, and my head is too sore, I can't go out there and sustain another blow". Joe responds, "It's not my fault Mary hit you over the head with a frying pan, Ben, but I feel badly for you. That said, I'm tired of the headache of dealing with you two, and I just want out. I won't sell the place - you've made it your homes - but I'm not getting involved besides saying that, Ben, in my opinion, you should have some of the house to yourself. Peace!" Joe then tosses me the keys, and jets away in his bitchin' Camaro.

    I look over at you, shrug my shoulders, and place the official flag of Bentopia in the living room, and pee on the ground to solidify that this is now my territory. I decide that you can come in, but you must obey by my rules, even if my rules go against your personal or cultural beliefs. Do I have the right to do this?

    Edit: Now, five years have passed. As a result of your violent opposition to my occupation of the living room, I find that this permits me to take control of your kitchen as well, as well as negating any questions of the legitimacy of how I attained sovereignty over the living room. Is this justifiable?

    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,921
    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.
    Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.
    Who owns the living room? I suppose my analogy is incomplete: we were both born and raised (and live together) in the house. We've seen landlords come and go who care not who lives there.
    I complain to Joe, the current landlord, "My wife Mary hits me in the head with a frying pan every time I see her without any provocation, and she follows me everywhere I go outside of this house - so I want some of this place as a safe refuge. Also, even in here, I don't like the way BS lives his life, and my head is too sore, I can't go out there and sustain another blow". Joe responds, "It's not my fault Mary hit you over the head with a frying pan, Ben, but I feel badly for you. That said, I'm tired of the headache of dealing with you two, and I just want out. I won't sell the place - you've made it your homes - but I'm not getting involved besides saying that, Ben, in my opinion, you should have some of the house to yourself. Peace!" Joe then tosses me the keys, and jets away in his bitchin' Camaro.

    I look over at you, shrug my shoulders, and place the official flag of Bentopia in the living room, and pee on the ground to solidify that this is now my territory. I decide that you can come in, but you must obey by my rules, even if my rules go against your personal or cultural beliefs. Do I have the right to do this?

    Edit: Now, five years have passed. As a result of your violent opposition to my occupation of the living room, I find that this permits me to take control of your kitchen as well, as well as negating any questions of the legitimacy of how I attained sovereignty over the living room. Is this justifiable?

    Holy crap this is complicated. It took me a half hour just to figure out your living room analogy!
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,161
    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,921
    badbrains said:

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
    No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,161
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
    No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.
    israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,921

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
    No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.
    israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.
    I'm not sure if you're paying attention but no one listens to America anymore.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,161
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
    No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.
    israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.
    I'm not sure if you're paying attention but no one listens to America anymore.
    they shouldn't have to.

    we should not be meddling in the affairs of other countries.

    nobody listens to canada either.

    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,921

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
    No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.
    israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.
    I'm not sure if you're paying attention but no one listens to America anymore.
    they shouldn't have to.

    we should not be meddling in the affairs of other countries.

    nobody listens to canada either.

    Except for Putin who met with former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien last week.

    http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/newsmaker-of-the-day-jean-chretien-goes-to-russia/

    The Harper goverment has distanced themselves from this meeting but I am sure there was some back channel communications. Maybe a little good cop/bad cop. Who knows? Either way...Canada gets shit done.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,512
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    looks like bibi got his coalition.

    commence harder right turn and global alienation.

    get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.

    No surprise there gimmie
    No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.
    israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.
    I'm not sure if you're paying attention but no one listens to America anymore.
    they shouldn't have to.

    we should not be meddling in the affairs of other countries.

    nobody listens to canada either.

    Except for Putin who met with former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien last week.

    http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/newsmaker-of-the-day-jean-chretien-goes-to-russia/

    The Harper goverment has distanced themselves from this meeting but I am sure there was some back channel communications. Maybe a little good cop/bad cop. Who knows? Either way...Canada gets shit done.
    What "shit" did Canada get done? A former Canadian foreign minister was given a "friendship" medal by Putin and is going to meet with him prior to reporting to some committee back in Canada. That constitutes "getting shit done?" Maple syrup for everyone!
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,483
    edited May 2015
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:


    This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.
    Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.
    Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.
    If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.
    Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.
    Who owns the living room? I suppose my analogy is incomplete: we were both born and raised (and live together) in the house. We've seen landlords come and go who care not who lives there.
    I complain to Joe, the current landlord, "My wife Mary hits me in the head with a frying pan every time I see her without any provocation, and she follows me everywhere I go outside of this house - so I want some of this place as a safe refuge. Also, even in here, I don't like the way BS lives his life, and my head is too sore, I can't go out there and sustain another blow". Joe responds, "It's not my fault Mary hit you over the head with a frying pan, Ben, but I feel badly for you. That said, I'm tired of the headache of dealing with you two, and I just want out. I won't sell the place - you've made it your homes - but I'm not getting involved besides saying that, Ben, in my opinion, you should have some of the house to yourself. Peace!" Joe then tosses me the keys, and jets away in his bitchin' Camaro.

    I look over at you, shrug my shoulders, and place the official flag of Bentopia in the living room, and pee on the ground to solidify that this is now my territory. I decide that you can come in, but you must obey by my rules, even if my rules go against your personal or cultural beliefs. Do I have the right to do this?

    Edit: Now, five years have passed. As a result of your violent opposition to my occupation of the living room, I find that this permits me to take control of your kitchen as well, as well as negating any questions of the legitimacy of how I attained sovereignty over the living room. Is this justifiable?

    Holy crap this is complicated. It took me a half hour just to figure out your living room analogy!
    It's really not that complicated. And now that you've had your half an hour comprehension plus half a day digestion time - how about some answers?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,512
    Tsk, tsk, tsk, BS doesn't like questions. He's Professor Chickenhawk, don'tcha know?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,483

    Tsk, tsk, tsk, BS doesn't like questions. He's Professor Chickenhawk, don'tcha know?

    Agree with him or disagree with him, there's no need to call him names. I'm just looking for answers to a thought experiment I figured was a reasonable, simplified scenario roughly analogous to the situation at hand.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,512
    Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,483

    Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.

    Sorry Hali, I didn't see that he called you that, but you're absolutely right. There's no place for that no matter who's saying it and who's receiving it.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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