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  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Moonpig said:

    muskydan said:

    Moonpig said:

    muskydan said:

    h

    Godfather. said:

    heads up where ? and some have thier heads in the sand...... I'll end this with an old stand by....anybody not happy in America may leave to the country of thier choice,hurry don't miss the boat and take a friend with you and have the time of your lives ! I wish you well.


    Godfather.

    One of my faves too GF. It's obvious many on here have a inner hate for this country, and not just its policies. Extremists that wish death to America are amongst us…a lot closer than you think.
    Nope, there are just people that have different opinions to your own. You think America is the greatest country in the world, I don't - I would certainly never wish death upon anybody, and certainly not to an entire nation.
    Yes, I do think America is the greatest country in the world….There is plenty of room on the moon pal…And there are plenty of people I wish death upon. I guess that's our difference in opinion..GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!
    Why the moon?

    And what exactly is America greatest in the world for? genuine question, what are the categories where America comes out?
    I agree with Dan 100%.I also believe we are the greatest country in the world and I'm proud to be American.
    As to your above question I'll just breeze thru a couple little items that kinda stand out as American Greatness.
    Electricity,refrigeration,Telephone,Light bulbs,automobiles,Air conditioning,Real Football(NFL),Southern Girls,Pearl Jam,Baseball,Flight,Television,$ spent on humanitarian aid world wide and next country is not even close,Rock n Roll that's just the first few.
    Oh and that freedom to say whatever the fuck you want or worship however you want.yeah we back that up also.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    My dad's better than your dad.

    Exactly why are you guys arguing such a pointless premise? I'm from Canada and despite all its shortcomings, happen to think it's the greatest country in the world. I wouldn't expect anyone from another country to agree with me. Just the same, I would expect most people from other countries to argue their country try is the greatest country in the world.

    Is there nothing else worthwhile discussing that this is the discourse we have settled on? Maybe there's not? And maybe this is a good thing?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,290
    Terry Crews, our National Treasure ...

    image

    It is a pretty cool country. We have diverse natural resources, an abundance on national parks, and some good neighbors that have given us the gifts of ice hockey and burritos. Although I'm not sure why it is a discussion in this thread.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    Wait, since when did America become a country again and not a corporation?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Jason P said:

    Terry Crews, our National Treasure ...

    image

    It is a pretty cool country. We have diverse natural resources, an abundance on national parks, and some good neighbors that have given us the gifts of ice hockey and burritos. Although I'm not sure why it is a discussion in this thread.

    It is a discussion because nationalist fervor is a problem when it gets to the point where you can no longer see the faults in your country. Any criticism of American war crimes is met with the good ol boy mantra of "if yeh dun like 'merica yeh can get out yeh commy"

    We wage wars for the profit of a select few and the fucking millionaire babies that run around a field tackling each other and tossing a ball are somehow a testament to our greatness? It's bullshit!!! We COULD be the greatest nation in tje world. We could have ZERO homeless people and everyone could be fed without anyone having to give up a SINGLE FUCKING THING THEY NEED, but instead we wage war in the middle east so that a few billionaires can lose count of how many billions they have. What a joke we are.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Moonpig
    Moonpig Posts: 659
    rr165892 said:

    Moonpig said:

    muskydan said:

    Moonpig said:

    muskydan said:

    h

    Godfather. said:

    heads up where ? and some have thier heads in the sand...... I'll end this with an old stand by....anybody not happy in America may leave to the country of thier choice,hurry don't miss the boat and take a friend with you and have the time of your lives ! I wish you well.


    Godfather.

    One of my faves too GF. It's obvious many on here have a inner hate for this country, and not just its policies. Extremists that wish death to America are amongst us…a lot closer than you think.
    Nope, there are just people that have different opinions to your own. You think America is the greatest country in the world, I don't - I would certainly never wish death upon anybody, and certainly not to an entire nation.
    Yes, I do think America is the greatest country in the world….There is plenty of room on the moon pal…And there are plenty of people I wish death upon. I guess that's our difference in opinion..GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!
    Why the moon?

    And what exactly is America greatest in the world for? genuine question, what are the categories where America comes out?
    I agree with Dan 100%.I also believe we are the greatest country in the world and I'm proud to be American.
    As to your above question I'll just breeze thru a couple little items that kinda stand out as American Greatness.
    Electricity,refrigeration,Telephone,Light bulbs,automobiles,Air conditioning,Real Football(NFL),Southern Girls,Pearl Jam,Baseball,Flight,Television,$ spent on humanitarian aid world wide and next country is not even close,Rock n Roll that's just the first few.
    Oh and that freedom to say whatever the fuck you want or worship however you want.yeah we back that up also.
    OK, I'm confused - Electricity, refrigeration, telephone, light bulbs, air conditioning, flight - how are you greatest at those, as in compared to what? (UK electricity / Chinese flight etc...)

    NFL - is that the sport where the ball looks like a rugby ball and is played almost exclusively from the hand (how is that football lol). In fairness this is obviously a personal subjective choice right, in that you're not saying it is recognised as an example of american exceptionalism right?

    BaseBall - same as above

    Rock n Roll - some pretty epic british bands have changed the course of music: Beatles / Rolling Stones / The Who / David Bowie / Oasis / Pink Floyd / Led Zep etc.... Ireland: U2 / Thin Lizzy / Rory Gallagher / Van Morrison / Drop Kick Murphy's / My Bloody Valentine

    $ spent on humanitarian aid - Official development assistance by country as a percentage of Gross National Income (2013), America ranks 20th

    Freedom of Religion - up 40 other countries also have freedom of religion enshrined in their respective constitutions

    I know we are kind of gone off on a tangent - and I'm the one who asked the question, but I was curious as to the reasoning behind this exceptionalist attitude.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,290
    Great athletes are usually the most revered and most compensated in every society. There are homeless in every society. And for every war fought in history, the war criminals are weeded out on the losing side. And the Race of Men, who above all else, desire power in every society.

    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Moonpig
    Moonpig Posts: 659
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    My dad's better than your dad.

    Exactly why are you guys arguing such a pointless premise? I'm from Canada and despite all its shortcomings, happen to think it's the greatest country in the world. I wouldn't expect anyone from another country to agree with me. Just the same, I would expect most people from other countries to argue their country try is the greatest country in the world.

    Is there nothing else worthwhile discussing that this is the discourse we have settled on? Maybe there's not? And maybe this is a good thing?

    Yep, fair enough - my bad. In fairness I asked the question so I take the criticism
  • pdalowsky
    pdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,214
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    My dad's better than your dad.

    Exactly why are you guys arguing such a pointless premise? I'm from Canada and despite all its shortcomings, happen to think it's the greatest country in the world. I wouldn't expect anyone from another country to agree with me. Just the same, I would expect most people from other countries to argue their country try is the greatest country in the world.

    Is there nothing else worthwhile discussing that this is the discourse we have settled on? Maybe there's not? And maybe this is a good thing?

    I'm always shocked by peoples passionate patriotism.....

    I'm from the Uk, and whilst i'm fairly happy here, i'm under no illusions that we are the greatest or anything particularly special. To me its just a country where I happened to be born.

    It drives me crazy seeing the football fans rioting at international games because they hail from a different land mass. When the world cup is on, people lose their shit here, everyone suddenly has to have a flag attached to their window, door, car, person, business premises, - people forget we are an embarrassment of a football team and suddenly everyone believes we are going to win the cup out of blind patriotism.

    We have a sweep of belief whenever it is time for Wimbledon (henman hill murray mount - thousands upon thousands of twatriots converge to drape their selves in flags and cheer on the guy who comes from the same lump of rock, the Olympics.....etc etc.

    I dunno, patriotism, another thing I fail to truly understand.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited February 2015
    pdalowsky said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    My dad's better than your dad.

    Exactly why are you guys arguing such a pointless premise? I'm from Canada and despite all its shortcomings, happen to think it's the greatest country in the world. I wouldn't expect anyone from another country to agree with me. Just the same, I would expect most people from other countries to argue their country try is the greatest country in the world.

    Is there nothing else worthwhile discussing that this is the discourse we have settled on? Maybe there's not? And maybe this is a good thing?

    I'm always shocked by peoples passionate patriotism.....

    I'm from the Uk, and whilst i'm fairly happy here, i'm under no illusions that we are the greatest or anything particularly special. To me its just a country where I happened to be born.

    It drives me crazy seeing the football fans rioting at international games because they hail from a different land mass. When the world cup is on, people lose their shit here, everyone suddenly has to have a flag attached to their window, door, car, person, business premises, - people forget we are an embarrassment of a football team and suddenly everyone believes we are going to win the cup out of blind patriotism.

    We have a sweep of belief whenever it is time for Wimbledon (henman hill murray mount - thousands upon thousands of twatriots converge to drape their selves in flags and cheer on the guy who comes from the same lump of rock, the Olympics.....etc etc.

    I dunno, patriotism, another thing I fail to truly understand.
    We have American govt propaganda instilled from an early age. Our children recite a pledge of allegiance every morning. The national anthem is sung by crowd at ever sporting event with the Military present. . If that doesn't say something about how fked up US is. It's no wonder there are many Americans have this obiedience. Same tactics used by Hitler and the Kims in North Korea. There is debate now that testing and teaching of true US history isn't patriotic so many states, not coincidentally in south, that want US history censored so it's more PATRIOTIC. Sad.

    Many though see through the charade.

    And the God Bless the United States thing is just utter crap on every level.
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Moonpig said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    My dad's better than your dad.

    Exactly why are you guys arguing such a pointless premise? I'm from Canada and despite all its shortcomings, happen to think it's the greatest country in the world. I wouldn't expect anyone from another country to agree with me. Just the same, I would expect most people from other countries to argue their country try is the greatest country in the world.

    Is there nothing else worthwhile discussing that this is the discourse we have settled on? Maybe there's not? And maybe this is a good thing?

    Yep, fair enough - my bad. In fairness I asked the question so I take the criticism
    Don't get me wrong... it wasn't meant to be critical.

    I agree with PD... one can love their country... just not blindly and without critically thinking of its actions that affect its very own citizens and other countries.

    Questioning and challenging authority is necessary.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,366
    edited February 2015
    rr165892 said:

    Moonpig said:

    muskydan said:

    Moonpig said:

    muskydan said:

    h

    Godfather. said:

    heads up where ? and some have thier heads in the sand...... I'll end this with an old stand by....anybody not happy in America may leave to the country of thier choice,hurry don't miss the boat and take a friend with you and have the time of your lives ! I wish you well.


    Godfather.

    One of my faves too GF. It's obvious many on here have a inner hate for this country, and not just its policies. Extremists that wish death to America are amongst us…a lot closer than you think.
    Nope, there are just people that have different opinions to your own. You think America is the greatest country in the world, I don't - I would certainly never wish death upon anybody, and certainly not to an entire nation.
    Yes, I do think America is the greatest country in the world….There is plenty of room on the moon pal…And there are plenty of people I wish death upon. I guess that's our difference in opinion..GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!
    Why the moon?

    And what exactly is America greatest in the world for? genuine question, what are the categories where America comes out?
    I agree with Dan 100%.I also believe we are the greatest country in the world and I'm proud to be American.
    As to your above question I'll just breeze thru a couple little items that kinda stand out as American Greatness.
    Electricity,refrigeration,Telephone,Light bulbs,automobiles,Air conditioning,Real Football(NFL),Southern Girls,Pearl Jam,Baseball,Flight,Television,$ spent on humanitarian aid world wide and next country is not even close,Rock n Roll that's just the first few.
    Oh and that freedom to say whatever the fuck you want or worship however you want.yeah we back that up also.
    Electricity: shown to exist by English scientist William Gilbert in the 1600s.

    Refrigeration: harvesting ice and snow seasonally is a concept used before 1000 BC in China. Refrigeration machines were designed as early as 1755 by Scottish professor William Cullen.

    Telephone: Officially recorded as being invented by Alexander Graham Bell - born in Scotland, raised in Canada.

    Light bulbs: shown first by Humphry Davy (English descent) in 1802.

    Automobiles: a steam-powered vehicle existed in 1672 in China by a Flemish Jesuit missionary called Ferdinand Verbiest.

    Air conditioning: in ancient Egypt, reeds were hung in windows and moistened with trickling water: the evaporation cooled the blowing air (at the same time inventing humidifiers). Ancient Rome used aqueduct waters in walls to cool (like modern high-end CPU tower cooling).

    "Real Football": a country's greatness is based on its sports successes? Are you fucking kidding me?

    "Southern Girls": once again - are you fucking kidding me?

    "Pearl Jam": yes - even this one - are you fucking kidding me (from here on in referred to as AYFKM)?

    Baseball: based on an old French game called la soule. Also - AYFKM?

    Television: also referred to as the boob tube, is probably the second largest contributor towards obesity - one of the world's most major avoidable killers. What might be first? Low-quality, commoditized fast food - a truly American invention.

    Dollars spent on humanitarian aid: in 2013, that number was $4.7 billion, which sounds great, until you compare it to the "defence" budget of $640 billion in the same year. Worth noting is that America typically leads the way far and beyond other countries in defence spendings as well as humanitarian aid. In order for this to be a net positive year for America (from a humanitarian perspective), that would mean that the assumption is that less than 0.8% of that defence budget created humanitarian issues. I don't buy it.

    Rock 'n' roll: an amalgamation of different kinds of music - but most notably, the music of oppressed black slaves in the South, whose gospel-driven blues where they expressed their misery at the hands of white Americans became the basis of most modern rock and jazz. Oh, and historically, those same black citizens were denied the right to play that music anywhere in the mainstream for years, and were paid less than their (typically inferior) white counterparts. Funny how that works.

    America? The greatest? Maybe the greatest bastard (been listening to Damien Rice a lot lately - for anyone who hasn't heard the song, it's fantastic).

    By the way - while I was born and raised in Canada, my dad's an American, and I inherited his citizenship.

    Sorry for the rant, but as I said: pride has to be one of the most destructive emotions out there.
    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    callen said:

    Godfather. said:

    muskydan said:

    Godfather. said:

    callen said:

    Godfather. said:

    well then if they don't want to pay the price then they should not ask..that's about as simple as it gets.
    and besides it always turns around to bite us in the ass anyway..."they're killing babies and women"
    or after the job is complete in thier eyes they protest and tell us to leave and start burning flags and going back to the islam thing that we are infedels, war has many costs and many ugly truths so maybe these countries should be careful what they ask for.

    Godfather.

    I'm confused GF. So why do you support intervening if you feel they aren't grateful?

    And why is US responsible for acting? What's our real interest?
    I don't but I believe if we don't the evil tht may be happening in another country could find it's way to our country likr the 9/11 attacks did, believe me I think the whole thing sucks ass.

    Godfather.

    I think is way too late GD. They are amongst us now as we all know. I think it's only a matter of time of when and where it happens again here.
    probably very true but the train members will make excuses for them and blame Americas anyway...

    Godfather.

    No GF not making excuses just understand ramifications from our actions.
    do we understand ramifications of others actions ? nobody is without falt.

    Godfather.


  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Jason P said:

    Great athletes are usually the most revered and most compensated in every society. There are homeless in every society. And for every war fought in history, the war criminals are weeded out on the losing side. And the Race of Men, who above all else, desire power in every society.

    Awesome rereference!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,366
    rgambs said:

    Jason P said:

    Great athletes are usually the most revered and most compensated in every society. There are homeless in every society. And for every war fought in history, the war criminals are weeded out on the losing side. And the Race of Men, who above all else, desire power in every society.

    Awesome rereference!
    Ha! Totally missed that one. I'll have to re-watch that tonight.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • muskydan
    muskydan Posts: 1,013
    Jason P said:

    Terry Crews, our National Treasure ...

    image

    It is a pretty cool country. We have diverse natural resources, an abundance on national parks, and some good neighbors that have given us the gifts of ice hockey and burritos. Although I'm not sure why it is a discussion in this thread.

    OMG is that fuckn funny!!! That sure made my day so far. I can't wait for the National Anthem at the Blackhawks game I am going too tomr night...I might just lose my voice.

    "And the Southern girls with the way they talk They knock me out when I'm down there"
  • Annafalk
    Annafalk Sweden Posts: 4,004
    I see nothing bad with patriotism, to be proud over your country, a feeling of belonging and connection.
    It doesn't mean that you have to look down on other countries does it?

    To be proud it's a good feeling and it brings more happiness to people. It doesn't mean one can't have a critical thinking on different issues.

    I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that many Americans don't have a passport.
    Maybe it's because they feel no need to travel they have what they want whitin the boarders and that's great.

    I'm from Sweden and I love my country but we have our problems too.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Annafalk said:

    I see nothing bad with patriotism, to be proud over your country, a feeling of belonging and connection.
    It doesn't mean that you have to look down on other countries does it?

    To be proud it's a good feeling and it brings more happiness to people. It doesn't mean one can't have a critical thinking on different issues.

    I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that many Americans don't have a passport.
    Maybe it's because they feel no need to travel they have what they want whitin the boarders and that's great.

    I'm from Sweden and I love my country but we have our problems too.

    I like this post, Anna...it speaks to me of pride in general - how the yearly gay pride parades here are accepted, celebrated - and it's great. Be proud of who you are.

    To reference (ugh!) Lady Gaga, "born this way".

    But, how is it, when applied to your country of birth, or even heritage, it's looked down upon? These are areas beyond our control, but it seems different standards are applied.

    (also, my passport has a shitload of stamps in it. Much beauty within my country, but also outside of it)

  • muskydan
    muskydan Posts: 1,013
    Annafalk said:

    I see nothing bad with patriotism, to be proud over your country, a feeling of belonging and connection.
    It doesn't mean that you have to look down on other countries does it?

    To be proud it's a good feeling and it brings more happiness to people. It doesn't mean one can't have a critical thinking on different issues.

    I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that many Americans don't have a passport.
    Maybe it's because they feel no need to travel they have what they want whitin the boarders and that's great.

    I'm from Sweden and I love my country but we have our problems too.

    You are so right on with your Post Anna. Many of my friends feel exactly that way about not needing a passport. America has all climates, seasons, Oceans, mountains, deserts, ect. Many Americans feel no need to go anywhere else. Now I personsally do not agree with that way of thinking being all over the world myself, but it's very common thinking. Sweden is a place I really want to go to since all the Swedes I have met in my travels have been so cool and kind, plus your woman are some of the most beautiful in the world:)
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    edited February 2015
    Moonpig said:

    rr165892 said:

    Moonpig said:

    muskydan said:

    Moonpig said:

    muskydan said:

    h

    Godfather. said:

    heads up where ? and some have thier heads in the sand...... I'll end this with an old stand by....anybody not happy in America may leave to the country of thier choice,hurry don't miss the boat and take a friend with you and have the time of your lives ! I wish you well.


    Godfather.

    One of my faves too GF. It's obvious many on here have a inner hate for this country, and not just its policies. Extremists that wish death to America are amongst us…a lot closer than you think.
    Nope, there are just people that have different opinions to your own. You think America is the greatest country in the world, I don't - I would certainly never wish death upon anybody, and certainly not to an entire nation.
    Yes, I do think America is the greatest country in the world….There is plenty of room on the moon pal…And there are plenty of people I wish death upon. I guess that's our difference in opinion..GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!
    Why the moon?

    And what exactly is America greatest in the world for? genuine question, what are the categories where America comes out?
    I agree with Dan 100%.I also believe we are the greatest country in the world and I'm proud to be American.
    As to your above question I'll just breeze thru a couple little items that kinda stand out as American Greatness.
    Electricity,refrigeration,Telephone,Light bulbs,automobiles,Air conditioning,Real Football(NFL),Southern Girls,Pearl Jam,Baseball,Flight,Television,$ spent on humanitarian aid world wide and next country is not even close,Rock n Roll that's just the first few.
    Oh and that freedom to say whatever the fuck you want or worship however you want.yeah we back that up also.
    OK, I'm confused - Electricity, refrigeration, telephone, light bulbs, air conditioning, flight - how are you greatest at those, as in compared to what? (UK electricity / Chinese flight etc...)

    NFL - is that the sport where the ball looks like a rugby ball and is played almost exclusively from the hand (how is that football lol). In fairness this is obviously a personal subjective choice right, in that you're not saying it is recognised as an example of american exceptionalism right?

    BaseBall - same as above

    Rock n Roll - some pretty epic british bands have changed the course of music: Beatles / Rolling Stones / The Who / David Bowie / Oasis / Pink Floyd / Led Zep etc.... Ireland: U2 / Thin Lizzy / Rory Gallagher / Van Morrison / Drop Kick Murphy's / My Bloody Valentine

    $ spent on humanitarian aid - Official development assistance by country as a percentage of Gross National Income (2013), America ranks 20th

    Freedom of Religion - up 40 other countries also have freedom of religion enshrined in their respective constitutions

    I know we are kind of gone off on a tangent - and I'm the one who asked the question, but I was curious as to the reasoning behind this exceptionalist attitude.
    those are great things we started.Im well aware other countries get in on some of it.The electricity and automobile thing caught on everywhere don't ya think.

    Moonpig if I say black you will counter with white.If I say up you will say down.I get you have some kind of hard on for the United States. you're prerogative.So anything I say you are going to twist around to suite your angle.
    I will just say this ,democracy and freedom are not perfect.The USA is far from perfect.We have many flaws and weaknesses.We have much to work for in making this country better.Being proud of the country in which I was born and live doesn't mean I agree or follow every opinion crafted by those in power and follow like a blind puppy.Quite the opposite.Actually dissenting opinions and questioning is our duty and right and every American should form their own opinions.I embrace the fucked up nature of our society.Id have it no other way.
    In my opinion this soil is worth dying for and protecting.this is still a land of opportunity where anyone can succeed with hard workThat doesn't mean when we are wrong I don't speak up.Thats the awesome part.I can say ,think and do as I please.I almost feel if you are proud to be American on these uber Liberal boards people assume you are some rascist that hates Muslims,watches Fox News,walks around with a bible and worship Limbaugh.Please!!!
    Just not the case.

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