Beheaded by ISIS

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  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Apparently denial is not just a river in Egypt
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited February 2015
    Apparently fear is "your" only god

    Edit-and what was that statement about yellow stars again? That was aimed at me right? Wow
    Post edited by badbrains on
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    edited February 2015
    Taking on the problem is not "fear". Avoiding the problem is "fear".
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    "and what was that statement about yellow stars again? That was aimed at me right?"

    Clearly yes. I thought you understood that. I apologize if holding a mirror up to your behaviour has thrown you for a loop. Now would you like to comment on defeating ISIS or would you prefer to just throw Afroman punches around.
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    yellow stars?
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    The US is not even supporting Egypt and the UAE in Libya

    http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/pentagon-egypt-uae-attacking-islamists-libya-differs-us-bombing-isis

    The US is at odds with the countries we are hoping will tackle ISIS for us. There is no strategy right now.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    "and what was that statement about yellow stars again? That was aimed at me right?"

    Clearly yes. I thought you understood that. I apologize if holding a mirror up to your behaviour has thrown you for a loop. Now would you like to comment on defeating ISIS or would you prefer to just throw Afroman punches around.

    Ya it has thrown me for a loop cuz I don't see that person. Are you sure you're not looking into the mirror yourself? Projecting much ey? I can throw afroman punches all day with ya if you'd like. You made a fucken lame ass statement, no surprise there, and yet I had a bunch of people come and defend me. And you stand by that statement, awesome. I applaud oh wait, our nation salutes you.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    chadwick said:

    yellow stars?

    Ya Chadwick, this guy/gal BS claims I would love to have certain members of the community wear yellow stars. Like I'm hitler or anti-Semitic. Me, pretty fucken hilarious.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,359
    edited February 2015
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    This is probably the most important article written on ISIS today. Required reading for anyone on here who truly wants to understand the nature of the threat and where their ideology comes from. It is not a "pro-groundtroops" article. A little long but extremely important. Harsh for those that think ISIS is not islam.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

    Ya, you're right, it was to long to read and full of shit. I'm gonna have people who are NOT Muslims tell me what it means to BE a Muslim. Ya, got it. Thanks for your light. Now I can see. It's funny, you spread as much fear as Isis. But please, keep on spreading. And let's put American soldiers on the ground to, why not? Again, "fear is your only god"

    Sad, the Israeli government killed more innocent civilians/CHILDREN in what 50 days then all of Isis. Wonder where your outrage was then? Oh ya, you supported it. Selective murder is ok in your book, as long as it's not committed by Muslims. And is committed AGAINST Muslims.(sorry for my caps).
    Nart, I think it's absolutely critical to absorb as much as you can from as many different angles as possible. If the article completely disagrees with what being a Muslim is all about - then as a peace-loving Muslim, I think you're in the right position to share that with us: as a Jew (or any other religion), it wouldn't be my place to speak up on that topic, as I'm only peripherally aware of the nature of Islam.

    That being said, since you brought up Israel - I'll happily speak up about that ass-backwards country: I believe much of Israeli behaviour to be a bastardization of Jewish laws. On the same note though, it wouldn't be reasonable of me to deny the fact that convenient Jewish laws were extracted and used in isolation for self-serving actions (i.e. the non-concern of the treatment of those native to the land Israel resides upon based on concepts of Zionism). Israeli behaviour is a scar on the face of Judaism in my mind, but it doesn't make me hate the Jewish religion (I have other reasons for that). I think that anti-Jewish sentiment because of self-serving and unacceptable Israeli actions and anti-Muslim sentiment because of self-serving and unacceptable ISIS actions are equally deluded and unacceptable - it's a straight-forward composition/division logical fallacy applied in both scenarios.

    Now, back to the "is ISIS a Muslim attempt at a caliphate" question.

    The way I see it, there are two requirements for a caliphate: a caliph, and allegiant followers.

    I'm guessing al-Baghdadi has one of two opinions:

    a) A caliphate ought to exist because Allah commands it.

    Followers may be attained by:
    -proposing commitment to Allah
    -fear

    b) A caliphate ought to exist because I want the power of being a caliph.

    Followers may be attained by:
    -proposing commitment to Allah (aka propaganda)
    -fear

    So, my point is, to conclude that ISIS has Muslim roots makes some critical and outlandish assumptions:
    1) al-Baghdadi believes in a modern caliphate due to commitment to Allah, as he claims
    2) al-Baghdadi is able to recruit by proposing commitment to Allah (again - this assuming he truly believes what he is doing is showing commitment to Allah), and not by fear

    Does ISIS represent an attempt at a caliphate or an attempt to seize power? I truthfully don't know. Historically, when you have a structure with one person high above the rest in a group - they didn't typically get there by being the most noble or humane or just or even religious; they simply promised the greatest certainty of persistent power. And in an area with little to no power given to the people - that's a hell of a promise.

    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    edited February 2015
    Great post benjs. I guess my response would be whatever it is that al-baghdadi is trying to accomplish would it not make sense for someone/us/choose your opposing force to demonstrate that he has no power to give? I think people are downplaying the "victories" that he is presenting to his growing number of followers. It will take a more significant defeat of his forces and a significant roll back of his territory to reveal him as the false prophet we know him to be.
    Post edited by BS44325 on
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Godfather. said:

    callen said:

    Godfather. said:

    callen said:

    Gents: Agree ISIS seems to be shooting themselves in the foot. Don't think ideology can be wiped out though. Do you both agree we should let Jordan and Egypt handle? What's benefit of US joining?

    yes I agree the US should stay away but given the damage and lives isis has done to the US and every place else maybe this is our opertunity to settle up and eliminate an on-going problem.

    Godfather.

    GF I would counter the US has done far more damage to Middle East than they have to US/Europe. . We don't have Middle East planes strategically bombing in the US. Think about how you personably have been affected by ISIS. The only one for me is having my tax dollars spent on war rather than good schools in impoverished areas and worried about those kids now breaking into my car/home.
    how I've been personally affected......well I'd rather not go into that because everybody has a complaint about this ISIS topic and mine would just be another one, but since you mentioned the US bombing raids I believe that when we do that it in defense for another country or rebel group of some sort and what do you think might happen if the US just backed away from all middle eastern squables ? as much as I 'd like to see that we can't, groups like ISIS have beeen around for years and they attack people for things as small as a cartoons and beside who does everybody call on for help when they get thier nuts in vice ? with our pretty much open boarder policy comes a lote of bullshit that leeds to military attacks at some point somewhere in the world..people come here and protest the evils of the country they left and want and expect US military action but want to stay here where they are safe for the most part and scream over the fense...you know my answer to that.

    Godfather.

    GF I have no problem protecting our country and using any means necessary. This us different then having a hightened fear of these idiots. The US should support those countries but short of sending our pl
    BS44325 said:

    ISIS is determining who and who isn't a muslim right now. Moderates are being slaughtered while the west twiddles it's thumbs. Egypt, Jordan and UAE are conducting airstrikes but they are not putting troops on the ground. ISIS assaulted Irbil yesterday. They are not intimidated by the airstrikes. Italy is actually concerend that they will be invaded from Libya. If we don't remove the cancer it will spread. There will be no moderate muslims left. The good intentions of this board notwithstanding.

    You know only what the "news" is feeding you. So you may not know much. As I. You have NO chance of being hurt by ISIS. Context BS. Turn off electronics and go smell some fresh air.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    A force of 40,000 soldiers. Again, Iraq had over 1.5 million and we finished them in 1 week. Mite take more then 1 week if we allow the Arab or Muslim world take care of them, but they can. And should
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    And Ben, I end up feeling dumb after reading your posts. But in a good way. Sorry, been burning some greens. Makes me realize how much more I need to learn my friend. Hope that makes sense haha
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    "You know only what the "news" is feeding you. So you may not know much. As I. You have NO chance of being hurt by ISIS. Context BS. Turn off electronics and go smell some fresh air."

    Denial. River. Egypt. I think my problem is that I am too well informed. I wish I could go back living in The Matrix. Life would be so much easier.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    "You know only what the "news" is feeding you. So you may not know much. As I. You have NO chance of being hurt by ISIS. Context BS. Turn off electronics and go smell some fresh air."

    Denial. River. Egypt. I think my problem is that I am too well informed. I wish I could go back living in The Matrix. Life would be so much easier.

    But you are living in the matrix mr "too well informed."
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,359
    edited February 2015
    BS44325 said:

    Great post benjs. I guess my response would be whatever it is that al-baghdadi is trying to accomplish would it not make sense for someone/us/choose your opposing force to demonstrate that he has no power to give? I think people are downplaying the "victories" that he is presenting to his growing number of followers. It will take a more significant defeat of his forces and a significant roll back of his territory to reveal him as the false prophet we know him to be.

    I couldn't agree more that someone needs to demonstrate that al-Baghdadi has no power to give (I'm not in favour of murderous rampages against innocents), I simply don't think the US are the right ones to intervene, as I could see it perpetuating further extremism after the dissolution of ISIS. We're seeing promising signs with Jordan and Egypt drawing the line, and saying "this ends now", and hard as it is to sit idly by, when the regional (not Muslim - but regional) bodies start to recognize their local cancers, they ought to be the ones to snuff them out. Give the region the right to govern their own issues, and they will take ownership of abolishing radicalism. It will be slower than American forces, undoubtedly, but this is a long-term investment in stability. Then, when stability is returned, in light of human rights violations, we in the Western world ought to speak with our spending dollars and produce trade embargo until rights are universal. If the almighty dollar rules all, may as well let it produce something positive for the world.
    badbrains said:

    And Ben, I end up feeling dumb after reading your posts. But in a good way. Sorry, been burning some greens. Makes me realize how much more I need to learn my friend. Hope that makes sense haha

    Sorry, man! Last thing I want to do is make anyone here feel dumb - I learn new things from you and everyone on here constantly.
    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,288
    badbrains said:

    A force of 40,000 soldiers. Again, Iraq had over 1.5 million and we finished them in 1 week. Mite take more then 1 week if we allow the Arab or Muslim world take care of them, but they can. And should

    If 40,000 fighters can govern a region with 8,000,000 people and are left unchecked, that 40,000 fighter number will start to grow exponentially. Especially with the tactics of fear and propaganda that they employ.

    The early signs of cancer should be taken seriously.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Jason P said:

    badbrains said:

    A force of 40,000 soldiers. Again, Iraq had over 1.5 million and we finished them in 1 week. Mite take more then 1 week if we allow the Arab or Muslim world take care of them, but they can. And should

    If 40,000 fighters can govern a region with 8,000,000 people and are left unchecked, that 40,000 fighter number will start to grow exponentially. Especially with the tactics of fear and propaganda that they employ.

    The early signs of cancer should be taken seriously.
    But if the Dr uses the wrong procedure there will be more damage. The US cannot solve this. The regional players need to step up. More death, seemingly justifiable by Americans will create more "Evildoers".
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    ISIS does not require Americans to create evil doers. They use intepretations of the koran. All they oppose are apostates be they regional opposition or American. You must understand them to defeat them.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited February 2015
    BS44325 said:

    ISIS does not require Americans to create evil doers. They use intepretations of the koran. All they oppose are apostates be they regional opposition or American. You must understand them to defeat them.

    Don't require but sure makes it easier to recruit. BS be sure to go to recruiter tomorrow and enlist. Volunteer to risk your life in battle.
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG

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