Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and Torturing Some Folks Memos

JC29856
JC29856 Posts: 9,617
in A Moving Train
The US Senate’s intelligence committee should release as planned its report summary on the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)’s detention and interrogation program, Human Rights Watch said today. The White House’s expressed support for the release has been undermined by statements from the State Department raising concerns over the timing of the release and possible foreign policy implications.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/12/06/us-release-torture-report

Here is a nice interactive guide from the ACLU illustrating all those involved in the enhanced interrogation techniques
https://www.aclu.org/national-security/infographic-torture-architects
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Comments

  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited December 2014
    Info-graphic outlining the other countries that were complicit with Enhanced Interrogation Techniques
    https://www.aclu.org/national-security/accountability-torture-infographic

    U.S. government documents released through years of litigation and advocacy by the ACLU show that after 9/11, many hundreds of people were abused or tortured by the CIA and Department of Defense, primarily in Afghanistan, Guantánamo, and Iraq, but also in other countries after unlawful rendition. Approximately 200 people died in U.S. custody, including at least a dozen during or shortly after interrogations. The records show that these illegal policies and actions were devised and approved at the highest levels of the Bush administration – but our nation has done little to make amends for the crimes committed, or to hold to account those who orchestrated the torture program.
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Some good reference and articles about secret prisons for the partisans amongst us.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/propublica/2012/07/extraordinary_rendition_proxy_detention_and_gitmo_during_the_obama_administration.html
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Americas mayor and former pres candidate

    “One, do you think waterboarding is torture? And two, do you think the president can order something like waterboarding even though it’s against U.S. and international law?’’

    Mr. Giuliani responded: “O.K. First of all, I don’t believe the attorney general designate in any way was unclear on torture. I think Democrats said that; I don’t think he was.’’

    Ms. Gustitus said: “He said he didn’t know if waterboarding is torture.”

    Mr. Giuliani said: “Well, I’m not sure it is either. I’m not sure it is either. It depends on how it’s done. It depends on the circumstances. It depends on who does it. I think the way it’s been defined in the media, it shouldn’t be done. The way in which they have described it, particularly in the liberal media. So I would say, if that’s the description of it, then I can agree, that it shouldn’t be done. But I have to see what the real description of it is. Because I’ve learned something being in public life as long as I have. And I hate to shock anybody with this, but the newspapers don’t always describe it accurately.”
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    I see no reason to put any of our troops at risk around the world by releasing what will be a very anticlimactic report.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    How much money was wasted so that the American public can know that the big bad US waterboarded 9/11 suspects?
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,599
    I guess in a way it is refreshing to know this is still a big deal. Torture, much like NSA surveillance, is something I've always assumed was going on somewhere. Intelligence gathering was never a clean business.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    JimmyV said:

    I guess in a way it is refreshing to know this is still a big deal. Torture, much like NSA surveillance, is something I've always assumed was going on somewhere. Intelligence gathering was never a clean business.

    And never will be.We cannot expect to deal with information gathering without getting our hands dirty.We also can't expect assets utilized throughout the world to play by the rules.Like Jimmy said its not a clean buisness.
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Everyone should watch the movie" Unthinkable" with Samuel l Jackson.It really makes you think.Regardless of which side of the argument u are on.It truly is this issue in a nutshell.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Last-12-Exit said:

    How much money was wasted so that the American public can know that the big bad US waterboarded 9/11 suspects?

    So what is the alternative? Don't investigate torture claims? Investigate them but keep the info secret? What kind of precedent would that set?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    rgambs said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    How much money was wasted so that the American public can know that the big bad US waterboarded 9/11 suspects?

    So what is the alternative? Don't investigate torture claims? Investigate them but keep the info secret? What kind of precedent would that set?
    The house knew about what was going on. The house has a very selective memory when it comes to torture. When these investigations started, there were re-elections going on. The tide had turned in this country from the American people not giving a fuck how we got bin Laden to eh, we'll get him one day.

    These subcommittees got detailed information on how the intelligence was gathered. That's why I do not think there will be anything new that comes from this report. And that it was a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    I don't think it's about setting a precedent. At some point, even the CIA will realize that information gathered under torture is not viable or useful information. I think releasing such a report will only put Americans at risk around the world unnecessarily.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Last-12-Exit said:

    I don't think it's about setting a precedent. At some point, even the CIA will realize that information gathered under torture is not viable or useful information. I think releasing such a report will only put Americans at risk around the world unnecessarily.

    I kind of agree, but my way of thinking is that it is only these sorts of reports that will lead the CIA and society at large to the same conclusion.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    rr165892 said:

    JimmyV said:

    I guess in a way it is refreshing to know this is still a big deal. Torture, much like NSA surveillance, is something I've always assumed was going on somewhere. Intelligence gathering was never a clean business.

    And never will be.We cannot expect to deal with information gathering without getting our hands dirty.We also can't expect assets utilized throughout the world to play by the rules.Like Jimmy said its not a clean buisness.
    Would think we'd want to rise above what others are doing.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Isn't capturing torturing holding "terrorists" for up to 12 years (some as young as 12!) then releasing them innocent without charges actually putting Americans at risk more so than reporting the potential crimes that our president/leaders/patriots/soldiers/US contractors have committed in our name with our tax dollars?

    Given that the "architects of torture" are already offering rebuttals and excuses before the report has been released, I'm thinking we will read more than loud music, sleep deprivation barking dogs and waterboarding.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    JC29856 said:

    Isn't capturing torturing holding "terrorists" for up to 12 years (some as young as 12!) then releasing them innocent without charges actually putting Americans at risk more so than reporting the potential crimes that our president/leaders/patriots/soldiers/US contractors have committed in our name with our tax dollars?

    Given that the "architects of torture" are already offering rebuttals and excuses before the report has been released, I'm thinking we will read more than loud music, sleep deprivation barking dogs and waterboarding.

    I disagree. I really don't think there will be much new information released. I could very well be wrong, but in the grand scheme, I doubt the people that were interviewed would have divulged 100% of what they know.
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows.
    These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    rr165892 said:

    Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows.
    These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.

    Where is the report you reference? Where are the reports that those tortured lopped off heads and killed children?

    BTW...We are pretty good a killing children. I can post some examples some even show pictures if you like.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    rr165892 said:

    Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows.
    These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.

    Sounds like the same kind of justifications Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, and Khmer Rouge Cambodia might have used... They did in fact. The Geneva Convention didn't happen for no reason.
    Not saying the US is Nazi-bad, but how can you hold the moral superiority it takes to police the world when you are performing renditions and torture. On top of that, as JC pointed out, these evil people will need a few more years of mayhem under their belt before they have blown up as many children as we have. If you are going to hinge the argument for torture on our subjective moral superiority, you have no leg to stand on.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Not to mention it doesn't work!

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/12/torture-report-dick-cheney-110306.html#.VIZbhnZOlTc

    Torture doesn’t work. Waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, did not in fact “produce the intelligence that allowed us to get Osama bin Laden," as former Vice President Dick Cheney asserted in 2011. Those are among the central findings of the Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA interrogation and detention after 9/11.

    The report’s executive summary is expected to be released Tuesday. After reviewing thousands of the CIA’s own documents, the committee has concluded that torture was ineffective as an intelligence-gathering technique. Torture produced little information of value, and what little it did produce could’ve been gained through humane, legal methods that uphold American ideals.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited December 2014
    And a vital part of President Obama’s legacy will be his repeated and ultimately successful efforts to shield the torturers from all forms of legal accountability - which, aside from being a brazen breach of America’s treaty obligations, makes deterrence of future American torture almost impossible (Obama did that even in the face of some polls showing pluralities favored criminal investigations of torture).

    To see how little accountability there still is for national security state officials, recall that the CIA got caught spying on the Senate Committee and then lying about it, yet John Brennan kept his job as CIA Director (just as James Clapper is still Director of National Intelligence despite getting caught lying about NSA domestic spying). Any decent person, by definition, would react with revulsion to today’s report, but nobody should react with confidence that its release will help prevent future occurrences by a national security state that resides far beyond democratic accountability, let alone the law.
    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/09/live-coverage-release-senate-torture-report/
    Post edited by JC29856 on

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