Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and Torturing Some Folks Memos

callen · December 2014

rr165892 said:

badbrains said:
How can anyone defend torture? Black yellow or red, shits wrong. What blows my mind is that we can get info from all over the world. Can read as much as we want on subjects to make our own decessions. And yet we still have people who can see no wrong in what our government is doing. What's that awesome line from that awesome song? "Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country's doing TO YOU!"
Nart ,watch the Movie Unthinkable with Samuel L Jackson.It frames this exact argument perfectly.Its way more complex of an issue then our little conversations on this board.

Will put in que But please explain how. In nutshell we are as barbaric as we claim the enemy to be.

callen · December 2014

Convinced that the power want strife to continue to feed the machine. And they use human insecurities successfully to carry out their plans.

callen · December 2014

rgambs said:

muskydan said:

rr165892 said:
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows.
These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ab-Sol-Fuking-lootly…...We are such a joke now to our enemies now. The pusification of American Continues.
Yeah let's sodomize the whole world, that will show our enemies who's tough.

And make us feel like tough guys.

USA USA USA USA.

Fucking charade and so easy to pull it off.

rr165892 · December 2014

callen said:

rr165892 said:

badbrains said:
How can anyone defend torture? Black yellow or red, shits wrong. What blows my mind is that we can get info from all over the world. Can read as much as we want on subjects to make our own decessions. And yet we still have people who can see no wrong in what our government is doing. What's that awesome line from that awesome song? "Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country's doing TO YOU!"
Nart ,watch the Movie Unthinkable with Samuel L Jackson.It frames this exact argument perfectly.Its way more complex of an issue then our little conversations on this board.
Will put in que But please explain how. In nutshell we are as barbaric as we claim the enemy to be.

Good Callen,you will enjoy.Its some powerful shit.I don't want to comment anymore about the movie because it will give away needed plot issues.Watch and then let's discuss.

callen · December 2014

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
Torture is not ok. But guess what? The United states will always do it. If you think for a millisecond that this report will stop torture, you're simply naive and wrong. And you know what else? Every other country in the world will to it too. Think about how evil we are for threatening to kill someones family member the next time you watch another American get his head cut off by a dull knife because of this ridiculous report.
Oh that's just plain ridiculous. If everyone knows we torture why is this report going to make someone cut someone's head off?? It can't be both. People don't join terrorist orgs because of Senate reports, they join because their village, their family, their country is being bombed.
Or because of a twisted religious dogma.

RR. We are no different Hell we do it for corporations then use religion to get public behind our violence. Why are we in the Middle East?? Fuck we invaded their area of the world. We are the aggressors. Our troops and $$$$ are still contributing to death.

muskydan · December 2014

rgambs said:

muskydan said:

rr165892 said:
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows.
These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ab-Sol-Fuking-lootly…...We are such a joke now to our enemies now. The pusification of American Continues.
You sound like a character from a movie th at would go straight to DVD.

Well Roadhouse is one of my All time faves.

rr165892 · December 2014

callen said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
Torture is not ok. But guess what? The United states will always do it. If you think for a millisecond that this report will stop torture, you're simply naive and wrong. And you know what else? Every other country in the world will to it too. Think about how evil we are for threatening to kill someones family member the next time you watch another American get his head cut off by a dull knife because of this ridiculous report.
Oh that's just plain ridiculous. If everyone knows we torture why is this report going to make someone cut someone's head off?? It can't be both. People don't join terrorist orgs because of Senate reports, they join because their village, their family, their country is being bombed.
Or because of a twisted religious dogma.
RR. We are no different Hell we do it for corporations then use religion to get public behind our violence. Why are we in the Middle East?? Fuck we invaded their area of the world. We are the aggressors. Our troops and $$$$ are still contributing to death.

To a certain extent I agree.But we also have protected and supported many also.Our involvement is not all bad.IMO in today's global buisness climate we have to be in many regions,tinkering propping up and developing for the all mighty dollar.We are more interconnected then ever.And as long as we need to keep our economy moving and Fuel in our vehicles it will not change.

rr165892 · December 2014

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

muskydan said:

rr165892 said:
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows.
These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ab-Sol-Fuking-lootly…...We are such a joke now to our enemies now. The pusification of American Continues.
You sound like a character from a movie th at would go straight to DVD.
Well Roadhouse is one of my All time faves.

Dude,Swayze at 5.6" 150 lbs is not working the door at a Redneck rowdy Roadhouse.Sam Elliott?Maybe.
I always thought the stash of spare tires was clever.

badbrains · December 2014

rr165892 said:

callen said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
Torture is not ok. But guess what? The United states will always do it. If you think for a millisecond that this report will stop torture, you're simply naive and wrong. And you know what else? Every other country in the world will to it too. Think about how evil we are for threatening to kill someones family member the next time you watch another American get his head cut off by a dull knife because of this ridiculous report.
Oh that's just plain ridiculous. If everyone knows we torture why is this report going to make someone cut someone's head off?? It can't be both. People don't join terrorist orgs because of Senate reports, they join because their village, their family, their country is being bombed.
Or because of a twisted religious dogma.
RR. We are no different Hell we do it for corporations then use religion to get public behind our violence. Why are we in the Middle East?? Fuck we invaded their area of the world. We are the aggressors. Our troops and $$$$ are still contributing to death.
To a certain extent I agree.But we also have protected and supported many also.Our involvement is not all bad.IMO in today's global buisness climate we have to be in many regions,tinkering propping up and developing for the all mighty dollar.We are more interconnected then ever.And as long as we need to keep our economy moving and Fuel in our vehicles it will not change.

Wow bro, really? You can't make a statement like this and then get butt hurt when they decide to fight back the only way they can. Cuz you know, they don't have drones and satellites. Why do we have to prop up and develope? You said it perfectly, all mighty dollar.

rgambs · December 2014

rr165892 said:

callen said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
Torture is not ok. But guess what? The United states will always do it. If you think for a millisecond that this report will stop torture, you're simply naive and wrong. And you know what else? Every other country in the world will to it too. Think about how evil we are for threatening to kill someones family member the next time you watch another American get his head cut off by a dull knife because of this ridiculous report.
Oh that's just plain ridiculous. If everyone knows we torture why is this report going to make someone cut someone's head off?? It can't be both. People don't join terrorist orgs because of Senate reports, they join because their village, their family, their country is being bombed.
Or because of a twisted religious dogma.
RR. We are no different Hell we do it for corporations then use religion to get public behind our violence. Why are we in the Middle East?? Fuck we invaded their area of the world. We are the aggressors. Our troops and $$$$ are still contributing to death.
To a certain extent I agree.But we also have protected and supported many also.Our involvement is not all bad.IMO in today's global buisness climate we have to be in many regions,tinkering propping up and developing for the all mighty dollar.We are more interconnected then ever.And as long as we need to keep our economy moving and Fuel in our vehicles it will not change.

Aren't you basically saying money is more valueable than human life and dignity?

Gern Blansten · December 2014

Last-12-Exit said:
Torture is not ok. But guess what? The United states will always do it. If you think for a millisecond that this report will stop torture, you're simply naive and wrong. And you know what else? Every other country in the world will to it too. Think about how evil we are for threatening to kill someones family member the next time you watch another American get his head cut off by a dull knife because of this ridiculous report.

Because of the report? I think they've been doing plenty of that without it.

Jason P · December 2014

I don't know why they paid two dudes $80M to figure out how to interrogate when all they needed to do was watch a few seasons of 24.

JC29856 · December 2014

If you're having a hard time thinking about how evil we are do a simple Google image search of drone kills children if you're not into visuals than here are a few sources. These are real people we kill and torture, they have family and friends, real people like like you and me.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

http://droneswatch.org/2013/01/20/list-of-children-killed-by-drone-strikes-in-pakistan-and-yemen/

badbrains · December 2014

PAKISTAN
Name | Age | Gender
Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
Maezol Khan | 8 | female
Nasir Khan | male
Naeem Khan | male
Naeemullah | male
Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
Ziauddin | 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
Ilyas | 13 | male
Sohail | 7 | male
Asadullah | 9 | male
khalilullah | 9 | male
Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
Khalid | 12 | male
Saifullah | 9 | male
Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
Nawab | 17 | male
Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
Abdullah | 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
Shahbuddin | 15 | male
Yahya Khan | 16 |male
Rahatullah |17 | male
Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
Shahjehan | 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
Numair | 14 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Taseel Khan | 18 | male
Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
Alam Nabi | 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
Rahmatullah | 14 | male
Abdus Samad | 17 | male
Siraj | 16 | male
Saeedullah | 17 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Salman | 12 | male
Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
Iftikhar | 17 | male
Inayatullah | 15 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Adnan | 16 | male
Najibullah | 13 | male
Naeemullah | 17 | male
Hizbullah | 10 | male
Kitab Gul | 12 | male
Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
Zabihullah | 16 | male
Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
Shabir | 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
Shafiullah | 16 | male
Nimatullah | 14 | male
Shakirullah | 16 | male
Talha | 8 | male

YEMEN
Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
Nasser Salim | 19

That's some fucken list of terrorists.

JC29856 · December 2014

badbrains said:
PAKISTAN
Name | Age | Gender
Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
Maezol Khan | 8 | female
Nasir Khan | male
Naeem Khan | male
Naeemullah | male
Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
Ziauddin | 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
Ilyas | 13 | male
Sohail | 7 | male
Asadullah | 9 | male
khalilullah | 9 | male
Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
Khalid | 12 | male
Saifullah | 9 | male
Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
Nawab | 17 | male
Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
Abdullah | 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
Shahbuddin | 15 | male
Yahya Khan | 16 |male
Rahatullah |17 | male
Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
Shahjehan | 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
Numair | 14 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Taseel Khan | 18 | male
Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
Alam Nabi | 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
Rahmatullah | 14 | male
Abdus Samad | 17 | male
Siraj | 16 | male
Saeedullah | 17 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Salman | 12 | male
Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
Iftikhar | 17 | male
Inayatullah | 15 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Adnan | 16 | male
Najibullah | 13 | male
Naeemullah | 17 | male
Hizbullah | 10 | male
Kitab Gul | 12 | male
Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
Zabihullah | 16 | male
Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
Shabir | 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
Shafiullah | 16 | male
Nimatullah | 14 | male
Shakirullah | 16 | male
Talha | 8 | male

YEMEN
Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
Nasser Salim | 19

That's some fucken list of terrorists.

Good way to create enemies and perpetuate war, wouldn't you say?

Last-12-Exit · December 2014

Jason P said:
I don't know why they paid two dudes $80M to figure out how to interrogate when all they needed to do was watch a few seasons of 24.

I love Jack Bauer.

I don't think this report will cause anyone to die directly. It'll just be used as a recruitment tool for Isis and al queda.

Drowned Out · December 2014

rr165892 said:

Drowned Out said:

JC29856 said:
Approximately 200 people died in U.S. custody, including at least a dozen during or shortly after interrogations.
Killed by interrogation techniques that are so soft rr makes light of them. What pussies, right?....I mean...at least they weren't beheaded, that's a way worse way to go than being tortured to death, right?
Oh, but these were 'scum bags', not journalists.....
Well, maybe...But how many innocent people were detained and, as mentioned, released without charge?
Will we get full investigations into the 'dozen' (nice guess?) killed while being tortured? Is it possible the US tortured innocent people to death? Were there innocents amongst the hundreds who died in custody?

rr165892 said:

callen said:

rr165892 said:
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows.
These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ironic. So who are the Evil Ones??
Well Cal I'm sure you guys think it's us.You know those evil Americans with our freedoms of speech and religion.The same ones who let our ladies drive and school girls study.How dare Us.
Has our foreign policy been a mess? Have we also done things that are not kosher?Sure,But let's not pretend that those innocent jihadists are not a problem.We at least don't "try" to run up an innocent body count.
You don't? So the use of depleted uranium shells, mini-nukes/'bunker busters' etc - guaranteed to kill innocents, has always been an accident? The US didn't 'try' to drop A-bombs on entire cities? Those helicopter pilots killing journalists and then the paramedics that came to help, on orders?....oops. I could come up with endless examples of actions where innocent victims were written off as collateral damage, as a matter of policy: not accidental deaths. When 'they' do it - it's terrorism. When 'we' do it - it's 'not kosher'. almost funny.
I'll keep reminding you here as well.....ISIS is a US/ally creation and proxy in Syria. You're deflecting... right back at yourself.
Deflecting what Drowned? I know you get all hot and bothered every time we have a us(US/the west)vs Them conversation.You always take the anti west stance especially when the Middle East is involved.Why?
Bringing WW2 and its Harsh realities don't apply to this conversation.Every modern country has past regrets based on war.From the Roman Empire to Nazi Germany to our Attacks on Japan.
I don't condone atrocities Commited by us and I sure as hell don't about those who want to inflict harm.
I don't disagree about our part in creating the ISIS problem ,but we cannot just walk away and let that type of ideology run rough shot on the Middle East.

Deflecting = your casus belli for torture - the 'jihadi threat' that we helped create, and still support, that you don't disagree about.
I don't take an anti-west stance, I take an anti-war, pro-human rights stance. We are the aggressors in the middle east. If these discussions started with another nation's invasion of the US, and what we have done about it, I might have a different tone. I don't think in 'us against them' or 'for us or against us' absolutes.

I mentioned WW2 as an example (the biggest example) of why the West has no moral high ground - it does apply to this conversation. Which harsh realities necessitated dropping nukes on two cities at the end of the war?
Total two-faced bullshit for you to say you don't condone american atrocities. Torture is an atrocity. Wars of aggression to keep 'fuel in your vehicle' is an atrocity. You've openly condoned both in this thread. So spare me the false sympathy for YOUR victims. Yes, YOUR. YOU, and people like you on both sides, are the reason this shit happens.

Let me ask you this - is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops?
How about your own citizens?

Remember these policies apply to YOU as well. Your government can torture US citizens without repercussion. Think about the precedent that sets. Or maybe ask Samuel Jackson if you prefer to form opinions based on Hollywood fiction/CIA propaganda.

JC29856 · December 2014

No better recruitment tool for "terrorist" than this..
US Soldiers Rape,Murder & Burn 14 years old Iraqi…:

http://youtu.be/M98ZLjSuwmU

rr165892 · December 2014

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

callen said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
Torture is not ok. But guess what? The United states will always do it. If you think for a millisecond that this report will stop torture, you're simply naive and wrong. And you know what else? Every other country in the world will to it too. Think about how evil we are for threatening to kill someones family member the next time you watch another American get his head cut off by a dull knife because of this ridiculous report.
Oh that's just plain ridiculous. If everyone knows we torture why is this report going to make someone cut someone's head off?? It can't be both. People don't join terrorist orgs because of Senate reports, they join because their village, their family, their country is being bombed.
Or because of a twisted religious dogma.
RR. We are no different Hell we do it for corporations then use religion to get public behind our violence. Why are we in the Middle East?? Fuck we invaded their area of the world. We are the aggressors. Our troops and $$$$ are still contributing to death.
To a certain extent I agree.But we also have protected and supported many also.Our involvement is not all bad.IMO in today's global buisness climate we have to be in many regions,tinkering propping up and developing for the all mighty dollar.We are more interconnected then ever.And as long as we need to keep our economy moving and Fuel in our vehicles it will not change.
Aren't you basically saying money is more valueable than human life and dignity?

I'm saying Thats how it is,I'm not saying the motivation is just.

rr165892 · December 2014

Drowned Out said:

rr165892 said:

Drowned Out said:

JC29856 said:
Approximately 200 people died in U.S. custody, including at least a dozen during or shortly after interrogations.
Killed by interrogation techniques that are so soft rr makes light of them. What pussies, right?....I mean...at least they weren't beheaded, that's a way worse way to go than being tortured to death, right?
Oh, but these were 'scum bags', not journalists.....
Well, maybe...But how many innocent people were detained and, as mentioned, released without charge?
Will we get full investigations into the 'dozen' (nice guess?) killed while being tortured? Is it possible the US tortured innocent people to death? Were there innocents amongst the hundreds who died in custody?

rr165892 said:

callen said:

rr165892 said:
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows.
These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ironic. So who are the Evil Ones??
Well Cal I'm sure you guys think it's us.You know those evil Americans with our freedoms of speech and religion.The same ones who let our ladies drive and school girls study.How dare Us.
Has our foreign policy been a mess? Have we also done things that are not kosher?Sure,But let's not pretend that those innocent jihadists are not a problem.We at least don't "try" to run up an innocent body count.
You don't? So the use of depleted uranium shells, mini-nukes/'bunker busters' etc - guaranteed to kill innocents, has always been an accident? The US didn't 'try' to drop A-bombs on entire cities? Those helicopter pilots killing journalists and then the paramedics that came to help, on orders?....oops. I could come up with endless examples of actions where innocent victims were written off as collateral damage, as a matter of policy: not accidental deaths. When 'they' do it - it's terrorism. When 'we' do it - it's 'not kosher'. almost funny.
I'll keep reminding you here as well.....ISIS is a US/ally creation and proxy in Syria. You're deflecting... right back at yourself.
Deflecting what Drowned? I know you get all hot and bothered every time we have a us(US/the west)vs Them conversation.You always take the anti west stance especially when the Middle East is involved.Why?
Bringing WW2 and its Harsh realities don't apply to this conversation.Every modern country has past regrets based on war.From the Roman Empire to Nazi Germany to our Attacks on Japan.
I don't condone atrocities Commited by us and I sure as hell don't about those who want to inflict harm.
I don't disagree about our part in creating the ISIS problem ,but we cannot just walk away and let that type of ideology run rough shot on the Middle East.
Deflecting = your casus belli for torture - the 'jihadi threat' that we helped create, and still support, that you don't disagree about.
I don't take an anti-west stance, I take an anti-war, pro-human rights stance. We are the aggressors in the middle east. If these discussions started with another nation's invasion of the US, and what we have done about it, I might have a different tone. I don't think in 'us against them' or 'for us or against us' absolutes.

I mentioned WW2 as an example (the biggest example) of why the West has no moral high ground - it does apply to this conversation. Which harsh realities necessitated dropping nukes on two cities at the end of the war?
Total two-faced bullshit for you to say you don't condone american atrocities. Torture is an atrocity. Wars of aggression to keep 'fuel in your vehicle' is an atrocity. You've openly condoned both in this thread. So spare me the false sympathy for YOUR victims. Yes, YOUR. YOU, and people like you on both sides, are the reason this shit happens.

Let me ask you this - is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops?
How about your own citizens?

Remember these policies apply to YOU as well. Your government can torture US citizens without repercussion. Think about the precedent that sets. Or maybe ask Samuel Jackson if you prefer to form opinions based on Hollywood fiction/CIA propaganda.

You are going under the assumption that P.O.W s of known nations are the one being tortured(again I don't see what we did as torture)It isn't.It was terror suspects for which the Geneva convention does not apply right?
And we are not the lone aggressors in the Middle East.Lots of bad actors there.I brought up the movie because it covers this debate to a tee.Not because I saw it as gospel.And if you truly are so worried about Human rights then why not call out those your defending for those sins commited on a daily basis against their own people.
You want to wrap this up nice and tight like its a black and white,open and closed issue but it way more complex with so many tangents.
I do enjoy your responses though Drowned always though provoking.

Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and Torturing Some Folks Memos

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