PAKISTAN Name | Age | Gender Noor Aziz | 8 | male Abdul Wasit | 17 | male Noor Syed | 8 | male Wajid Noor | 9 | male Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male Ayeesha | 3 | female Qari Alamzeb | 14| male Shoaib | 8 | male Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male Tariq Aziz | 16 | male Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male Maezol Khan | 8 | female Nasir Khan | male Naeem Khan | male Naeemullah | male Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male Azizul Wahab | 15 | male Fazal Wahab | 16 | male Ziauddin | 16 | male Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male Fazal Hakim | 19 | male Ilyas | 13 | male Sohail | 7 | male Asadullah | 9 | male khalilullah | 9 | male Noor Mohammad | 8 | male Khalid | 12 | male Saifullah | 9 | male Mashooq Jan | 15 | male Nawab | 17 | male Sultanat Khan | 16 | male Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male Noor Mohammad | 15 | male Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male Abdullah | 18 | male Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male Shahbuddin | 15 | male Yahya Khan | 16 |male Rahatullah |17 | male Mohammad Salim | 11 | male Shahjehan | 15 | male Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male Bakht Muneer | 14 | male Numair | 14 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Taseel Khan | 18 | male Zaheeruddin | 16 | male Qari Ishaq | 19 | male Jamshed Khan | 14 | male Alam Nabi | 11 | male Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male Rahmatullah | 14 | male Abdus Samad | 17 | male Siraj | 16 | male Saeedullah | 17 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Salman | 12 | male Fazal Wahab | 18 | male Baacha Rahman | 13 | male Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male Iftikhar | 17 | male Inayatullah | 15 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Adnan | 16 | male Najibullah | 13 | male Naeemullah | 17 | male Hizbullah | 10 | male Kitab Gul | 12 | male Wilayat Khan | 11 | male Zabihullah | 16 | male Shehzad Gul | 11 | male Shabir | 15 | male Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male Shafiullah | 16 | male Nimatullah | 14 | male Shakirullah | 16 | male Talha | 8 | male
YEMEN Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male Nasser Salim | 19
That's some fucken list of terrorists.
Good way to create enemies and perpetuate war, wouldn't you say?
If you are going to put up a list like this then finish the data.What were the accused deeds of each?How many were guilty of aiding and abetting?How many directly had a hand in terror planning? I do agree you will turn some innocents into new enemies with a grudge.How do you gain info from captured fighters ?What would be your solution?
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows. These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ab-Sol-Fuking-lootly…...We are such a joke now to our enemies now. The pusification of American Continues.
You sound like a character from a movie th at would go straight to DVD.
Well Roadhouse is one of my All time faves.
Dude,Swayze at 5.6" 150 lbs is not working the door at a Redneck rowdy Roadhouse.Sam Elliott?Maybe. I always thought the stash of spare tires was clever.
Come on man, BODE can do anything and still is living in NZ.
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows. These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ab-Sol-Fuking-lootly…...We are such a joke now to our enemies now. The pusification of American Continues.
You sound like a character from a movie th at would go straight to DVD.
Well Roadhouse is one of my All time faves.
Dude,Swayze at 5.6" 150 lbs is not working the door at a Redneck rowdy Roadhouse.Sam Elliott?Maybe. I always thought the stash of spare tires was clever.
Come on man, BODE can do anything and still is living in NZ.
PAKISTAN Name | Age | Gender Noor Aziz | 8 | male Abdul Wasit | 17 | male Noor Syed | 8 | male Wajid Noor | 9 | male Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male Ayeesha | 3 | female Qari Alamzeb | 14| male Shoaib | 8 | male Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male Tariq Aziz | 16 | male Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male Maezol Khan | 8 | female Nasir Khan | male Naeem Khan | male Naeemullah | male Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male Azizul Wahab | 15 | male Fazal Wahab | 16 | male Ziauddin | 16 | male Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male Fazal Hakim | 19 | male Ilyas | 13 | male Sohail | 7 | male Asadullah | 9 | male khalilullah | 9 | male Noor Mohammad | 8 | male Khalid | 12 | male Saifullah | 9 | male Mashooq Jan | 15 | male Nawab | 17 | male Sultanat Khan | 16 | male Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male Noor Mohammad | 15 | male Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male Abdullah | 18 | male Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male Shahbuddin | 15 | male Yahya Khan | 16 |male Rahatullah |17 | male Mohammad Salim | 11 | male Shahjehan | 15 | male Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male Bakht Muneer | 14 | male Numair | 14 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Taseel Khan | 18 | male Zaheeruddin | 16 | male Qari Ishaq | 19 | male Jamshed Khan | 14 | male Alam Nabi | 11 | male Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male Rahmatullah | 14 | male Abdus Samad | 17 | male Siraj | 16 | male Saeedullah | 17 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Salman | 12 | male Fazal Wahab | 18 | male Baacha Rahman | 13 | male Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male Iftikhar | 17 | male Inayatullah | 15 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Adnan | 16 | male Najibullah | 13 | male Naeemullah | 17 | male Hizbullah | 10 | male Kitab Gul | 12 | male Wilayat Khan | 11 | male Zabihullah | 16 | male Shehzad Gul | 11 | male Shabir | 15 | male Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male Shafiullah | 16 | male Nimatullah | 14 | male Shakirullah | 16 | male Talha | 8 | male
YEMEN Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male Nasser Salim | 19
That's some fucken list of terrorists.
Good way to create enemies and perpetuate war, wouldn't you say?
If you are going to put up a list like this then finish the data.What were the accused deeds of each?How many were guilty of aiding and abetting?How many directly had a hand in terror planning? I do agree you will turn some innocents into new enemies with a grudge.How do you gain info from captured fighters ?What would be your solution?
1. I didn't produce a list, I provided a link 2. The rest of your questions are invalidated
I will comment on your post...you should try applying some of your own questions to the "detainees", especially the ones held at abu and gitmo? How many of the "detainees" were "captured fighters"? Can you at least answer that?
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows. These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ab-Sol-Fuking-lootly…...We are such a joke now to our enemies now. The pusification of American Continues.
You sound like a character from a movie th at would go straight to DVD.
Well Roadhouse is one of my All time faves.
Dude,Swayze at 5.6" 150 lbs is not working the door at a Redneck rowdy Roadhouse.Sam Elliott?Maybe. I always thought the stash of spare tires was clever.
Come on man, BODE can do anything and still is living in NZ.
PAKISTAN Name | Age | Gender Noor Aziz | 8 | male Abdul Wasit | 17 | male Noor Syed | 8 | male Wajid Noor | 9 | male Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male Ayeesha | 3 | female Qari Alamzeb | 14| male Shoaib | 8 | male Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male Tariq Aziz | 16 | male Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male Maezol Khan | 8 | female Nasir Khan | male Naeem Khan | male Naeemullah | male Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male Azizul Wahab | 15 | male Fazal Wahab | 16 | male Ziauddin | 16 | male Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male Fazal Hakim | 19 | male Ilyas | 13 | male Sohail | 7 | male Asadullah | 9 | male khalilullah | 9 | male Noor Mohammad | 8 | male Khalid | 12 | male Saifullah | 9 | male Mashooq Jan | 15 | male Nawab | 17 | male Sultanat Khan | 16 | male Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male Noor Mohammad | 15 | male Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male Abdullah | 18 | male Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male Shahbuddin | 15 | male Yahya Khan | 16 |male Rahatullah |17 | male Mohammad Salim | 11 | male Shahjehan | 15 | male Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male Bakht Muneer | 14 | male Numair | 14 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Taseel Khan | 18 | male Zaheeruddin | 16 | male Qari Ishaq | 19 | male Jamshed Khan | 14 | male Alam Nabi | 11 | male Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male Rahmatullah | 14 | male Abdus Samad | 17 | male Siraj | 16 | male Saeedullah | 17 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Salman | 12 | male Fazal Wahab | 18 | male Baacha Rahman | 13 | male Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male Iftikhar | 17 | male Inayatullah | 15 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Adnan | 16 | male Najibullah | 13 | male Naeemullah | 17 | male Hizbullah | 10 | male Kitab Gul | 12 | male Wilayat Khan | 11 | male Zabihullah | 16 | male Shehzad Gul | 11 | male Shabir | 15 | male Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male Shafiullah | 16 | male Nimatullah | 14 | male Shakirullah | 16 | male Talha | 8 | male
YEMEN Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male Nasser Salim | 19
That's some fucken list of terrorists.
Good way to create enemies and perpetuate war, wouldn't you say?
If you are going to put up a list like this then finish the data.What were the accused deeds of each?How many were guilty of aiding and abetting?How many directly had a hand in terror planning? I do agree you will turn some innocents into new enemies with a grudge.How do you gain info from captured fighters ?What would be your solution?
1. I didn't produce a list, I provided a link 2. The rest of your questions are invalidated
I will comment on your post...you should try applying some of your own questions to the "detainees", especially the ones held at abu and gitmo? How many of the "detainees" were "captured fighters"? Can you at least answer that?
What would be my solution? Abstinence.
No I can't Thats why I asked.Your as sure as I am.So maybe your wrong.Maybe I am.Maybe we both are.
PAKISTAN Name | Age | Gender Noor Aziz | 8 | male Abdul Wasit | 17 | male Noor Syed | 8 | male Wajid Noor | 9 | male Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male Ayeesha | 3 | female Qari Alamzeb | 14| male Shoaib | 8 | male Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male Tariq Aziz | 16 | male Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male Maezol Khan | 8 | female Nasir Khan | male Naeem Khan | male Naeemullah | male Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male Azizul Wahab | 15 | male Fazal Wahab | 16 | male Ziauddin | 16 | male Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male Fazal Hakim | 19 | male Ilyas | 13 | male Sohail | 7 | male Asadullah | 9 | male khalilullah | 9 | male Noor Mohammad | 8 | male Khalid | 12 | male Saifullah | 9 | male Mashooq Jan | 15 | male Nawab | 17 | male Sultanat Khan | 16 | male Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male Noor Mohammad | 15 | male Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male Abdullah | 18 | male Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male Shahbuddin | 15 | male Yahya Khan | 16 |male Rahatullah |17 | male Mohammad Salim | 11 | male Shahjehan | 15 | male Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male Bakht Muneer | 14 | male Numair | 14 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Taseel Khan | 18 | male Zaheeruddin | 16 | male Qari Ishaq | 19 | male Jamshed Khan | 14 | male Alam Nabi | 11 | male Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male Rahmatullah | 14 | male Abdus Samad | 17 | male Siraj | 16 | male Saeedullah | 17 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Salman | 12 | male Fazal Wahab | 18 | male Baacha Rahman | 13 | male Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male Iftikhar | 17 | male Inayatullah | 15 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Adnan | 16 | male Najibullah | 13 | male Naeemullah | 17 | male Hizbullah | 10 | male Kitab Gul | 12 | male Wilayat Khan | 11 | male Zabihullah | 16 | male Shehzad Gul | 11 | male Shabir | 15 | male Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male Shafiullah | 16 | male Nimatullah | 14 | male Shakirullah | 16 | male Talha | 8 | male
YEMEN Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male Nasser Salim | 19
That's some fucken list of terrorists.
Good way to create enemies and perpetuate war, wouldn't you say?
If you are going to put up a list like this then finish the data.What were the accused deeds of each?How many were guilty of aiding and abetting?How many directly had a hand in terror planning? I do agree you will turn some innocents into new enemies with a grudge.How do you gain info from captured fighters ?What would be your solution?
1. I didn't produce a list, I provided a link 2. The rest of your questions are invalidated
I will comment on your post...you should try applying some of your own questions to the "detainees", especially the ones held at abu and gitmo? How many of the "detainees" were "captured fighters"? Can you at least answer that?
What would be my solution? Abstinence.
No I can't Thats why I asked.Your as sure as I am.So maybe your wrong.Maybe I am.Maybe we both are.
YOU referred to them as captured fighters, so it's at least two....how do you know that? Where are you getting that information?
PAKISTAN Name | Age | Gender Noor Aziz | 8 | male Abdul Wasit | 17 | male Noor Syed | 8 | male Wajid Noor | 9 | male Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male Ayeesha | 3 | female Qari Alamzeb | 14| male Shoaib | 8 | male Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male Tariq Aziz | 16 | male Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male Maezol Khan | 8 | female Nasir Khan | male Naeem Khan | male Naeemullah | male Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male Azizul Wahab | 15 | male Fazal Wahab | 16 | male Ziauddin | 16 | male Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male Fazal Hakim | 19 | male Ilyas | 13 | male Sohail | 7 | male Asadullah | 9 | male khalilullah | 9 | male Noor Mohammad | 8 | male Khalid | 12 | male Saifullah | 9 | male Mashooq Jan | 15 | male Nawab | 17 | male Sultanat Khan | 16 | male Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male Noor Mohammad | 15 | male Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male Abdullah | 18 | male Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male Shahbuddin | 15 | male Yahya Khan | 16 |male Rahatullah |17 | male Mohammad Salim | 11 | male Shahjehan | 15 | male Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male Bakht Muneer | 14 | male Numair | 14 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Taseel Khan | 18 | male Zaheeruddin | 16 | male Qari Ishaq | 19 | male Jamshed Khan | 14 | male Alam Nabi | 11 | male Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male Rahmatullah | 14 | male Abdus Samad | 17 | male Siraj | 16 | male Saeedullah | 17 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Salman | 12 | male Fazal Wahab | 18 | male Baacha Rahman | 13 | male Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male Iftikhar | 17 | male Inayatullah | 15 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Adnan | 16 | male Najibullah | 13 | male Naeemullah | 17 | male Hizbullah | 10 | male Kitab Gul | 12 | male Wilayat Khan | 11 | male Zabihullah | 16 | male Shehzad Gul | 11 | male Shabir | 15 | male Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male Shafiullah | 16 | male Nimatullah | 14 | male Shakirullah | 16 | male Talha | 8 | male
YEMEN Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male Nasser Salim | 19
That's some fucken list of terrorists.
Good way to create enemies and perpetuate war, wouldn't you say?
If you are going to put up a list like this then finish the data.What were the accused deeds of each?How many were guilty of aiding and abetting?How many directly had a hand in terror planning? I do agree you will turn some innocents into new enemies with a grudge.How do you gain info from captured fighters ?What would be your solution?
A couple more questions, lets assume they are "captured fighters", why would we detain and interrogate capture fighters in order to capture terrorists? What are the differences between captured fighters and captured terrorists?
Approximately 200 people died in U.S. custody, including at least a dozen during or shortly after interrogations.
Killed by interrogation techniques that are so soft rr makes light of them. What pussies, right?....I mean...at least they weren't beheaded, that's a way worse way to go than being tortured to death, right? Oh, but these were 'scum bags', not journalists..... Well, maybe...But how many innocent people were detained and, as mentioned, released without charge? Will we get full investigations into the 'dozen' (nice guess?) killed while being tortured? Is it possible the US tortured innocent people to death? Were there innocents amongst the hundreds who died in custody?
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows. These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ironic. So who are the Evil Ones??
Well Cal I'm sure you guys think it's us.You know those evil Americans with our freedoms of speech and religion.The same ones who let our ladies drive and school girls study.How dare Us. Has our foreign policy been a mess? Have we also done things that are not kosher?Sure,But let's not pretend that those innocent jihadists are not a problem.We at least don't "try" to run up an innocent body count.
You don't? So the use of depleted uranium shells, mini-nukes/'bunker busters' etc - guaranteed to kill innocents, has always been an accident? The US didn't 'try' to drop A-bombs on entire cities? Those helicopter pilots killing journalists and then the paramedics that came to help, on orders?....oops. I could come up with endless examples of actions where innocent victims were written off as collateral damage, as a matter of policy: not accidental deaths. When 'they' do it - it's terrorism. When 'we' do it - it's 'not kosher'. almost funny. I'll keep reminding you here as well.....ISIS is a US/ally creation and proxy in Syria. You're deflecting... right back at yourself.
Deflecting what Drowned? I know you get all hot and bothered every time we have a us(US/the west)vs Them conversation.You always take the anti west stance especially when the Middle East is involved.Why? Bringing WW2 and its Harsh realities don't apply to this conversation.Every modern country has past regrets based on war.From the Roman Empire to Nazi Germany to our Attacks on Japan. I don't condone atrocities Commited by us and I sure as hell don't about those who want to inflict harm. I don't disagree about our part in creating the ISIS problem ,but we cannot just walk away and let that type of ideology run rough shot on the Middle East.
Deflecting = your casus belli for torture - the 'jihadi threat' that we helped create, and still support, that you don't disagree about. I don't take an anti-west stance, I take an anti-war, pro-human rights stance. We are the aggressors in the middle east. If these discussions started with another nation's invasion of the US, and what we have done about it, I might have a different tone. I don't think in 'us against them' or 'for us or against us' absolutes.
I mentioned WW2 as an example (the biggest example) of why the West has no moral high ground - it does apply to this conversation. Which harsh realities necessitated dropping nukes on two cities at the end of the war? Total two-faced bullshit for you to say you don't condone american atrocities. Torture is an atrocity. Wars of aggression to keep 'fuel in your vehicle' is an atrocity. You've openly condoned both in this thread. So spare me the false sympathy for YOUR victims. Yes, YOUR. YOU, and people like you on both sides, are the reason this shit happens.
Let me ask you this - is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops? How about your own citizens?
Remember these policies apply to YOU as well. Your government can torture US citizens without repercussion. Think about the precedent that sets. Or maybe ask Samuel Jackson if you prefer to form opinions based on Hollywood fiction/CIA propaganda.
You are going under the assumption that P.O.W s of known nations are the one being tortured(again I don't see what we did as torture)It isn't.It was terror suspects for which the Geneva convention does not apply right? And we are not the lone aggressors in the Middle East.Lots of bad actors there.I brought up the movie because it covers this debate to a tee.Not because I saw it as gospel.And if you truly are so worried about Human rights then why not call out those your defending for those sins commited on a daily basis against their own people. You want to wrap this up nice and tight like its a black and white,open and closed issue but it way more complex with so many tangents. I do enjoy your responses though Drowned always though provoking.
You don't see keeping someone awake for a week, while waterboarding them, slamming them into walls, hanging them from ceilings by their arms while beating their shins, force feeding them thru tubes in their ass, denying them medical care, keeping them in complete isolation for YEARS, is torture? HOw do you get that I'm under the assumption that the torture victims are POW's? But since you brought it up - your supreme court ruled in 2006 that the Geneva conventions DO apply to terror suspects. I don't know if a new precedent has been set since, but I'm sure your government has tried. The US has also in the past signed and ratified several international agreements that reject torture. If we're using your interpretations of the Geneva conventions....then how are we determining who is a terrorist and who isn't? Whomever the accusing government or organization says is a terrorist, is one...trial or not? Doesn't that make everyone fair game? You know the CIA is invovled with a lot of plain-clothes acts of violence on foreign soil, right? That's pretty much the definition of terrorism, right? You know the CIA has a long history of using journalists as assets, right? So the journalists that were beheaded....ISIS calls them combatants. fair game or not? Now I ask again: is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops? How about your own citizens? Either way - fuck Geneva, fuck the UN, fuck all of it. It is wrong to torture people. The fact that this needs to be said at all is mind-boggling to me. That really IS 100% cut and dried; not complex at all.
For the record: I DO call out religious extremists. Pretty much every single time anything about the middle east comes up, I am asked to do so by people who are looking for reasons to justify more violence. So I do. I am not defending them. I clearly stated that I'm anti-war and pro-human rights. IN what world does that equate to defending ISIS? When will YOU call out the ideology that drives your nations' part in war? You know - the global capitalist system that you just defended? See what I mean about 'people like you'? You're asking me to do something you refuse to do.
Approximately 200 people died in U.S. custody, including at least a dozen during or shortly after interrogations.
Killed by interrogation techniques that are so soft rr makes light of them. What pussies, right?....I mean...at least they weren't beheaded, that's a way worse way to go than being tortured to death, right? Oh, but these were 'scum bags', not journalists..... Well, maybe...But how many innocent people were detained and, as mentioned, released without charge? Will we get full investigations into the 'dozen' (nice guess?) killed while being tortured? Is it possible the US tortured innocent people to death? Were there innocents amongst the hundreds who died in custody?
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows. These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice.What the hell are we releasing this for anyway,just stupid.
Ironic. So who are the Evil Ones??
Well Cal I'm sure you guys think it's us.You know those evil Americans with our freedoms of speech and religion.The same ones who let our ladies drive and school girls study.How dare Us. Has our foreign policy been a mess? Have we also done things that are not kosher?Sure,But let's not pretend that those innocent jihadists are not a problem.We at least don't "try" to run up an innocent body count.
You don't? So the use of depleted uranium shells, mini-nukes/'bunker busters' etc - guaranteed to kill innocents, has always been an accident? The US didn't 'try' to drop A-bombs on entire cities? Those helicopter pilots killing journalists and then the paramedics that came to help, on orders?....oops. I could come up with endless examples of actions where innocent victims were written off as collateral damage, as a matter of policy: not accidental deaths. When 'they' do it - it's terrorism. When 'we' do it - it's 'not kosher'. almost funny. I'll keep reminding you here as well.....ISIS is a US/ally creation and proxy in Syria. You're deflecting... right back at yourself.
Deflecting what Drowned? I know you get all hot and bothered every time we have a us(US/the west)vs Them conversation.You always take the anti west stance especially when the Middle East is involved.Why? Bringing WW2 and its Harsh realities don't apply to this conversation.Every modern country has past regrets based on war.From the Roman Empire to Nazi Germany to our Attacks on Japan. I don't condone atrocities Commited by us and I sure as hell don't about those who want to inflict harm. I don't disagree about our part in creating the ISIS problem ,but we cannot just walk away and let that type of ideology run rough shot on the Middle East.
Deflecting = your casus belli for torture - the 'jihadi threat' that we helped create, and still support, that you don't disagree about. I don't take an anti-west stance, I take an anti-war, pro-human rights stance. We are the aggressors in the middle east. If these discussions started with another nation's invasion of the US, and what we have done about it, I might have a different tone. I don't think in 'us against them' or 'for us or against us' absolutes.
I mentioned WW2 as an example (the biggest example) of why the West has no moral high ground - it does apply to this conversation. Which harsh realities necessitated dropping nukes on two cities at the end of the war? Total two-faced bullshit for you to say you don't condone american atrocities. Torture is an atrocity. Wars of aggression to keep 'fuel in your vehicle' is an atrocity. You've openly condoned both in this thread. So spare me the false sympathy for YOUR victims. Yes, YOUR. YOU, and people like you on both sides, are the reason this shit happens.
Let me ask you this - is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops? How about your own citizens?
Remember these policies apply to YOU as well. Your government can torture US citizens without repercussion. Think about the precedent that sets. Or maybe ask Samuel Jackson if you prefer to form opinions based on Hollywood fiction/CIA propaganda.
You are going under the assumption that P.O.W s of known nations are the one being tortured(again I don't see what we did as torture)It isn't.It was terror suspects for which the Geneva convention does not apply right? And we are not the lone aggressors in the Middle East.Lots of bad actors there.I brought up the movie because it covers this debate to a tee.Not because I saw it as gospel.And if you truly are so worried about Human rights then why not call out those your defending for those sins commited on a daily basis against their own people. You want to wrap this up nice and tight like its a black and white,open and closed issue but it way more complex with so many tangents. I do enjoy your responses though Drowned always though provoking.
You don't see keeping someone awake for a week, while waterboarding them, slamming them into walls, hanging them from ceilings by their arms while beating their shins, force feeding them thru tubes in their ass, denying them medical care, keeping them in complete isolation for YEARS, is torture? HOw do you get that I'm under the assumption that the torture victims are POW's? But since you brought it up - your supreme court ruled in 2006 that the Geneva conventions DO apply to terror suspects. I don't know if a new precedent has been set since, but I'm sure your government has tried. The US has also in the past signed and ratified several international agreements that reject torture. If we're using your interpretations of the Geneva conventions....then how are we determining who is a terrorist and who isn't? Whomever the accusing government or organization says is a terrorist, is one...trial or not? Doesn't that make everyone fair game? You know the CIA is invovled with a lot of plain-clothes acts of violence on foreign soil, right? That's pretty much the definition of terrorism, right? You know the CIA has a long history of using journalists as assets, right? So the journalists that were beheaded....ISIS calls them combatants. fair game or not? Now I ask again: is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops? How about your own citizens? Either way - fuck Geneva, fuck the UN, fuck all of it. It is wrong to torture people. The fact that this needs to be said at all is mind-boggling to me. That really IS 100% cut and dried; not complex at all.
For the record: I DO call out religious extremists. Pretty much every single time anything about the middle east comes up, I am asked to do so by people who are looking for reasons to justify more violence. So I do. I am not defending them. I clearly stated that I'm anti-war and pro-human rights. IN what world does that equate to defending ISIS? When will YOU call out the ideology that drives your nations' part in war? You know - the global capitalist system that you just defended? See what I mean about 'people like you'? You're asking me to do something you refuse to do.
To the point of is it fair game for journalist, I do. That's why they are being killed. Obviously Isis thinks they are. I guess I'm just a big pussy because there is no way in hell I'm going to the middle east to cover a war if I'm a journalist. Even if I was being paid by the cia. No thanks. I like my head. It's ugly, but I need it.
To the point of is it fair game for journalist, I do. That's why they are being killed. Obviously Isis thinks they are. I guess I'm just a big pussy because there is no way in hell I'm going to the middle east to cover a war if I'm a journalist. Even if I was being paid by the cia. No thanks. I like my head. It's ugly, but I need it.
Sleep deprevation,Loud music,uncomfortable positions are 3 of the four items in the report.So that is the torture you guys are worried about? Im sure tickleing with a feather ,and wet willies would also make the list.Lets get real here.We live in a world with evil people and we are not going to contain them by asking nice and offering comfy pillows. These fuckers lop off heads and blow up children and we are worried about pouring water on some scum bag.We are too nice
Well Cal I'm sure you guys think it's us.You know those evil Americans with our freedoms of speech and religion.The same ones who let our ladies drive and school girls study.How dare Us. Has our foreign policy been a mess? Have we also done things that are not kosher?Sure,But let's not pretend that those innocent jihadists are not a problem.We at least don't "try" to run up an innocent body count.
You don't? So the use of depleted uranium shells, mini-nukes/'bunker busters' etc - guaranteed to kill innocents, has always been an accident? The US didn't 'try' to drop A-bombs on entire cities? Those helicopter pilots killing journalists and then the paramedics that came to help, on orders?....oops. I could come up with endless examples of actions where innocent victims were written off as collateral damage, as a matter of policy: not accidental deaths. When 'they' do it - it's terrorism. When 'we' do it - it's 'not kosher'. almost funny. I'll keep reminding you here as well.....ISIS is a US/ally creation and proxy in Syria. You're deflecting... right back at yourself.
Deflecting what Drowned? I know you get all hot and bothered every time we have a us(US/the west)vs Them conversation.You always take the anti west stance especially when the Middle East is involved.Why? Bringing WW2 and its Harsh realities don't apply to this conversation.Every modern country has past regrets based on war.From the Roman Empire to Nazi Germany to our Attacks on Japan. I don't condone atrocities Commited by us and I sure as hell don't about those who want to inflict harm. I don't disagree about our part in creating the ISIS problem ,but we cannot just walk away and let that type of ideology run rough shot on the Middle East.
Deflecting = your casus belli for torture - the 'jihadi threat' that we helped create, and still support, that you don't disagree about. I don't take an anti-west stance, I take an anti-war, pro-human rights stance. We are the aggressors in the middle east. If these discussions started with another nation's invasion of the US, and what we have done about it, I might have a different tone. I don't think in 'us against them' or 'for us or against us' absolutes.
I mentioned WW2 as an example (the biggest example) of why the West has no moral high ground - it does apply to this conversation. Which harsh realities necessitated dropping nukes on two cities at the end of the war? Total two-faced bullshit for you to say you don't condone american atrocities. Torture is an atrocity. Wars of aggression to keep 'fuel in your vehicle' is an atrocity. You've openly condoned both in this thread. So spare me the false sympathy for YOUR victims. Yes, YOUR. YOU, and people like you on both sides, are the reason this shit happens.
Let me ask you this - is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops? How about your own citizens?
Remember these policies apply to YOU as well. Your government can torture US citizens without repercussion. Think about the precedent that sets. Or maybe ask Samuel Jackson if you prefer to form opinions based on Hollywood fiction/CIA propaganda.
You are going under the assumption that P.O.W s of known nations are the one being tortured(again I don't see what we did as torture)It isn't.It was terror suspects for which the Geneva convention does not apply right? And we are not the lone aggressors in the Middle East.Lots of bad actors there.I brought up the movie because it covers this debate to a tee.Not because I saw it as gospel.And if you truly are so worried about Human rights then why not call out those your defending for those sins commited on a daily basis against their own people. You want to wrap this up nice and tight like its a black and white,open and closed issue but it way more complex with so many tangents. I do enjoy your responses though Drowned always though provoking. You don't see keeping someone awake for a week, while waterboarding them, slamming them into walls, hanging them from ceilings by their arms while beating their shins, force feeding them thru tubes in their ass, denying them medical care, keeping them in complete isolation for YEARS, is torture? HOw do you get that I'm under the assumption that the torture victims are POW's? But since you brought it up - your supreme court ruled in 2006 that the Geneva conventions DO apply to terror suspects. I don't know if a new precedent has been set since, but I'm sure your government has tried. The US has also in the past signed and ratified several international agreements that reject torture. If we're using your interpretations of the Geneva conventions....then how are we determining who is a terrorist and who isn't? Whomever the accusing government or organization says is a terrorist, is one...trial or not? Doesn't that make everyone fair game? You know the CIA is invovled with a lot of plain-clothes acts of violence on foreign soil, right? That's pretty much the definition of terrorism, right? You know the CIA has a long history of using journalists as assets, right? So the journalists that were beheaded....ISIS calls them combatants. fair game or not? Now I ask again: is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops? How about your own citizens? Either way - fuck Geneva, fuck the UN, fuck all of it. It is wrong to torture people. The fact that this needs to be said at all is mind-boggling to me. That really IS 100% cut and dried; not complex at all.
For the record: I DO call out religious extremists. Pretty much every single time anything about the middle east comes up, I am asked to do so by people who are looking for reasons to justify more violence. So I do. I am not defending them. I clearly stated that I'm anti-war and pro-human rights. IN what world does that equate to defending ISIS? When will YOU call out the ideology that drives your nations' part in war? You know - the global capitalist system that you just defended? See what I mean about 'people like you'? You're asking me to do something you refuse to do.
Good writing right here.
It was right?Drowned can really bring the heat.Good job dude.
I already said I do not agree with all the Govt actions.But yes I am defending our need to obtain information .So we can better protect our assets both home and abroad.How we get that info is most certainly up for debate as these boards here show. I would define a terrorist(s) as a party acting without state sponsorship.A group without borders or boundaries.A group which does not keep their targets only military and instead prefers soft targets.Markets,busses,train stations,marathons,schools etc.Large crowds of easy non military targets.I could keep going but you get the jist. Yes I get it that we(west)and that includes you back bacon loving,tuque wearing,Hockey obsessed folks north of the border as well have much blood on our hands.But we don't target innocent people. I concur that CIA field operators play in the black arts and one could make a case that is considered terrorism but not in my opinion because it is state sponsored.
The summary report is exactly that a summary, who knows what was left out. In terms of sheer volume, the summary is 7% of the total investigation, not to mention the WH withheld over 9,400 CIA documents claiming executive privilege. From the Sept of 2003 to May of 2009 there were 40 Congressional member torture briefings including the HPSCI, SSCI, DCIA, IG, DOJ, NSC AND OLC.
Instead of the discussion being torture, war crimes, accountability, the discussion now turns to who knew what, who didn't, who lied to who, its this ones fault, and all the Democrat vs Republican FOX news versus MSNBC back and forth bullshit dog and pony show from both the left and right to distract from the the real issue (as is normally the case), torture and war crimes.
Don't be fooled Washington is a total shit show circle jerk of whos got the bigger dick, 100% non partisan (theres only one real party the Re-election Party). Re-election and retaining power is all that matters to these ass clowns and of course their sensitive egos.
The CIA pissed on Congress by not being totally forthright when in reality was probably just congress again not paying full attention (remember WMDs). The Re-election Party in Congress got their egos hurt and decided to investigate and release just enough information to cause outrage with little damage and show the CIA just how little their tiny dicks are compared to Congresses. Its really that simple, you tiny dick us, we will BIG dick you!
The summary report is exactly that a summary, who knows what was left out. In terms of sheer volume, the summary is 7% of the total investigation, not to mention the WH withheld over 9,400 CIA documents claiming executive privilege. From the Sept of 2003 to May of 2009 there were 40 Congressional member torture briefings including the HPSCI, SSCI, DCIA, IG, DOJ, NSC AND OLC.
Instead of the discussion being torture, war crimes, accountability, the discussion now turns to who knew what, who didn't, who lied to who, its this ones fault, and all the Democrat vs Republican FOX news versus MSNBC back and forth bullshit dog and pony show from both the left and right to distract from the the real issue (as is normally the case), torture and war crimes.
Don't be fooled Washington is a total shit show circle jerk of whos got the bigger dick, 100% non partisan (theres only one real party the Re-election Party). Re-election and retaining power is all that matters to these ass clowns and of course their sensitive egos.
The CIA pissed on Congress by not being totally forthright when in reality was probably just congress again not paying full attention (remember WMDs). The Re-election Party in Congress got their egos hurt and decided to investigate and release just enough information to cause outrage with little damage and show the CIA just how little their tiny dicks are compared to Congresses. Its really that simple, you tiny dick us, we will BIG dick you!
There can be 500,000,000 signatures and you will still have a better chance of seeing Eddie Vedder at starting center for the 2015 Seattle Supersonics then anyone prosecuted for torture.
Rr - I don't think you understand what kind of information is gathered from torture...it's unreliable and almost always completely fabricated...this has been confirmed by the highest levels of government and military. it is used as propaganda; that's the true intent of it. Seeing a person break and spill some elaborate plot is more Hollywood propaganda. Do you realize just how involved the CIA gets with war movies? They were actually able to pull scenes that showed them in any negative light from zero dark thirty. I have to wonder how much critical thinking most people do while thinking they're engaged in simple escapism.
Now....state-sponsored terrorism....this is where I start repeating myself again. Pilots green-lighted to kill journalists and paramedics. Entire apartment buildings levelled or weddings bombed kill a single person. Sanctions that deny medicine to sick kids. These things are done intentionally, as a matter of policy. Innocent people are absolutely targeted. Then there are the non-policy acts that happen over and over and are only occasionally brought to light.
The CIA does not always operate with full government knowledge, and even if it did, does that make acts of violence on foreign soil acceptable? Does this view apply to all intelligence agencies, or just American ones? It wouldn't be terrorism if the ISI or VAJA killed americans in their homes? Even if you say no, it's an act of war...does it make it any less heinous? I don't know where this is going - are you still trying to say that terrorists can be tortured because they're terrorists, despite my comment about your Supreme Court? How about mercenaries acting on behalf of government? Not terrorism? Blackwater was responsible for large scale massacres and only low level people were ever prosecuted. Who gives a shit if they're state sponsored? They're acting with immunity, without oversight, and contrary to international laws. You're using semantics to muddy the waters here.
Also, I always try to differentiate between 'the West', 'NATO' or 'the US' and use the terms in the correct context and at the proper times. I"m well aware that my country has blood on it's hands. This is not an American witch hunt. But lets be clear.....wars involving western/nato nations very rarely happen without US approval.
Are you going to answer my question about torturing American troops or citizens?
I agree with JC on this being a self-serving circus show by Congress. They didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know with the exception of the butt-chugging. No mention of black site activity or the real super cruel stuff that has most likely occurred.
In the immortal words of Dennis Green ...
"They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
14,000 detainees in Iraq alone....commander of the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, Janis Karpinski: 90% of detainees were of no security value….in wrong place at wrong time: http://www.salon.com/2005/11/10/karpinski/
Now, check out the volume of information in this link….senate committees, intelligence interrogation manuals, quotes from high-ranking officials…. torture is defined as terrorism…it wastes resources, costs lives, destroys the standing of America on the global stage, creates terrorists, and…..it does NOT work for intelligence gathering: http://www.globalresearch.ca/torture-an-executive-summary/5418955
Comments
I do agree you will turn some innocents into new enemies with a grudge.How do you gain info from captured fighters ?What would be your solution?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/09/10/list-victims-from-sept-11-2001/
2. The rest of your questions are invalidated
I will comment on your post...you should try applying some of your own questions to the "detainees", especially the ones held at abu and gitmo?
How many of the "detainees" were "captured fighters"? Can you at least answer that?
What would be my solution? Abstinence.
I'm am sure of one thing.
HOw do you get that I'm under the assumption that the torture victims are POW's? But since you brought it up - your supreme court ruled in 2006 that the Geneva conventions DO apply to terror suspects. I don't know if a new precedent has been set since, but I'm sure your government has tried. The US has also in the past signed and ratified several international agreements that reject torture. If we're using your interpretations of the Geneva conventions....then how are we determining who is a terrorist and who isn't? Whomever the accusing government or organization says is a terrorist, is one...trial or not? Doesn't that make everyone fair game? You know the CIA is invovled with a lot of plain-clothes acts of violence on foreign soil, right? That's pretty much the definition of terrorism, right? You know the CIA has a long history of using journalists as assets, right? So the journalists that were beheaded....ISIS calls them combatants. fair game or not?
Now I ask again:
is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops?
How about your own citizens?
Either way - fuck Geneva, fuck the UN, fuck all of it. It is wrong to torture people. The fact that this needs to be said at all is mind-boggling to me. That really IS 100% cut and dried; not complex at all.
For the record: I DO call out religious extremists. Pretty much every single time anything about the middle east comes up, I am asked to do so by people who are looking for reasons to justify more violence. So I do. I am not defending them. I clearly stated that I'm anti-war and pro-human rights. IN what world does that equate to defending ISIS? When will YOU call out the ideology that drives your nations' part in war? You know - the global capitalist system that you just defended? See what I mean about 'people like you'? You're asking me to do something you refuse to do.
Deflecting = your casus belli for torture - the 'jihadi threat' that we helped create, and still support, that you don't disagree about.
I don't take an anti-west stance, I take an anti-war, pro-human rights stance. We are the aggressors in the middle east. If these discussions started with another nation's invasion of the US, and what we have done about it, I might have a different tone. I don't think in 'us against them' or 'for us or against us' absolutes.
I mentioned WW2 as an example (the biggest example) of why the West has no moral high ground - it does apply to this conversation. Which harsh realities necessitated dropping nukes on two cities at the end of the war?
Total two-faced bullshit for you to say you don't condone american atrocities. Torture is an atrocity. Wars of aggression to keep 'fuel in your vehicle' is an atrocity. You've openly condoned both in this thread. So spare me the false sympathy for YOUR victims. Yes, YOUR. YOU, and people like you on both sides, are the reason this shit happens.
Let me ask you this - is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops?
How about your own citizens?
Remember these policies apply to YOU as well. Your government can torture US citizens without repercussion. Think about the precedent that sets. Or maybe ask Samuel Jackson if you prefer to form opinions based on Hollywood fiction/CIA propaganda.
You are going under the assumption that P.O.W s of known nations are the one being tortured(again I don't see what we did as torture)It isn't.It was terror suspects for which the Geneva convention does not apply right?
And we are not the lone aggressors in the Middle East.Lots of bad actors there.I brought up the movie because it covers this debate to a tee.Not because I saw it as gospel.And if you truly are so worried about Human rights then why not call out those your defending for those sins commited on a daily basis against their own people.
You want to wrap this up nice and tight like its a black and white,open and closed issue but it way more complex with so many tangents.
I do enjoy your responses though Drowned always though provoking.
You don't see keeping someone awake for a week, while waterboarding them, slamming them into walls, hanging them from ceilings by their arms while beating their shins, force feeding them thru tubes in their ass, denying them medical care, keeping them in complete isolation for YEARS, is torture?
HOw do you get that I'm under the assumption that the torture victims are POW's? But since you brought it up - your supreme court ruled in 2006 that the Geneva conventions DO apply to terror suspects. I don't know if a new precedent has been set since, but I'm sure your government has tried. The US has also in the past signed and ratified several international agreements that reject torture. If we're using your interpretations of the Geneva conventions....then how are we determining who is a terrorist and who isn't? Whomever the accusing government or organization says is a terrorist, is one...trial or not? Doesn't that make everyone fair game? You know the CIA is invovled with a lot of plain-clothes acts of violence on foreign soil, right? That's pretty much the definition of terrorism, right? You know the CIA has a long history of using journalists as assets, right? So the journalists that were beheaded....ISIS calls them combatants. fair game or not?
Now I ask again:
is it ok and justifiable for other countries to torture captured US troops?
How about your own citizens?
Either way - fuck Geneva, fuck the UN, fuck all of it. It is wrong to torture people. The fact that this needs to be said at all is mind-boggling to me. That really IS 100% cut and dried; not complex at all.
For the record: I DO call out religious extremists. Pretty much every single time anything about the middle east comes up, I am asked to do so by people who are looking for reasons to justify more violence. So I do. I am not defending them. I clearly stated that I'm anti-war and pro-human rights. IN what world does that equate to defending ISIS? When will YOU call out the ideology that drives your nations' part in war? You know - the global capitalist system that you just defended? See what I mean about 'people like you'? You're asking me to do something you refuse to do.
Good writing right here.
It was right?Drowned can really bring the heat.Good job dude.
I already said I do not agree with all the Govt actions.But yes I am defending our need to obtain information .So we can better protect our assets both home and abroad.How we get that info is most certainly up for debate as these boards here show.
I would define a terrorist(s) as a party acting without state sponsorship.A group without borders or boundaries.A group which does not keep their targets only military and instead prefers soft targets.Markets,busses,train stations,marathons,schools etc.Large crowds of easy non military targets.I could keep going but you get the jist.
Yes I get it that we(west)and that includes you back bacon loving,tuque wearing,Hockey obsessed folks north of the border as well have much blood on our hands.But we don't target innocent people.
I concur that CIA field operators play in the black arts and one could make a case that is considered terrorism but not in my opinion because it is state sponsored.
From the Sept of 2003 to May of 2009 there were 40 Congressional member torture briefings including the HPSCI, SSCI, DCIA, IG, DOJ, NSC AND OLC.
Instead of the discussion being torture, war crimes, accountability, the discussion now turns to who knew what, who didn't, who lied to who, its this ones fault, and all the Democrat vs Republican FOX news versus MSNBC back and forth bullshit dog and pony show from both the left and right to distract from the the real issue (as is normally the case), torture and war crimes.
Don't be fooled Washington is a total shit show circle jerk of whos got the bigger dick, 100% non partisan (theres only one real party the Re-election Party). Re-election and retaining power is all that matters to these ass clowns and of course their sensitive egos.
The CIA pissed on Congress by not being totally forthright when in reality was probably just congress again not paying full attention (remember WMDs). The Re-election Party in Congress got their egos hurt and decided to investigate and release just enough information to cause outrage with little damage and show the CIA just how little their tiny dicks are compared to Congresses. Its really that simple, you tiny dick us, we will BIG dick you!
Decide: Fuck Your God
Dope: Die MF Die, Take Your Best Shot
Eminem: White America, Kim
Barney & Friends: theme song
Drowning Pool: Bodies
Metallica: Enter Sandman
Meow Mix: commercial jingle
Pearl Jam: Animal
Janeane Garofalo/Ben Stiller: chapter from the Feel This Audiobook
Sesame Street: theme song
David Gray: Babylon
AC/DC: Shoot to Thrill, Hell's Bells
Bee Gees: Stayin' Alive
Tupac: All Eyez On Me
Christina Aguilera: Dirrty
Neil Diamond: America
Rage Against the Machine: unspecified songs
Nirvana: Rape Me
Don McLean: American Pie
Saliva: Click Click Boom
Matchbox Twenty: Cold
(hed)pe: Swan Dive
Prince: Raspberry Beret
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/prosecute-full-extent-law-all-parties-responsible-use-torture-outlined-cia-report/17ZgKTtB
Petition had almost 100,000 signatures.
There can be 500,000,000 signatures and you will still have a better chance of seeing Eddie Vedder at starting center for the 2015 Seattle Supersonics then anyone prosecuted for torture.
Now....state-sponsored terrorism....this is where I start repeating myself again. Pilots green-lighted to kill journalists and paramedics. Entire apartment buildings levelled or weddings bombed kill a single person. Sanctions that deny medicine to sick kids. These things are done intentionally, as a matter of policy. Innocent people are absolutely targeted. Then there are the non-policy acts that happen over and over and are only occasionally brought to light.
The CIA does not always operate with full government knowledge, and even if it did, does that make acts of violence on foreign soil acceptable? Does this view apply to all intelligence agencies, or just American ones? It wouldn't be terrorism if the ISI or VAJA killed americans in their homes? Even if you say no, it's an act of war...does it make it any less heinous? I don't know where this is going - are you still trying to say that terrorists can be tortured because they're terrorists, despite my comment about your Supreme Court? How about mercenaries acting on behalf of government? Not terrorism? Blackwater was responsible for large scale massacres and only low level people were ever prosecuted. Who gives a shit if they're state sponsored? They're acting with immunity, without oversight, and contrary to international laws. You're using semantics to muddy the waters here.
Also, I always try to differentiate between 'the West', 'NATO' or 'the US' and use the terms in the correct context and at the proper times. I"m well aware that my country has blood on it's hands. This is not an American witch hunt. But lets be clear.....wars involving western/nato nations very rarely happen without US approval.
Are you going to answer my question about torturing American troops or citizens?
In the immortal words of Dennis Green ...
"They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
14,000 detainees in Iraq alone....commander of the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, Janis Karpinski: 90% of detainees were of no security value….in wrong place at wrong time:
http://www.salon.com/2005/11/10/karpinski/
Now, check out the volume of information in this link….senate committees, intelligence interrogation manuals, quotes from high-ranking officials….
torture is defined as terrorism…it wastes resources, costs lives, destroys the standing of America on the global stage, creates terrorists, and…..it does NOT work for intelligence gathering:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/torture-an-executive-summary/5418955
anyone paying attention to the Intelligence Authorization Act HR 4681? anyone else curious about the timing of the voice vote?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/11/370055472/dick-cheney-on-senate-torture-investigation-the-report-is-full-of-crap
Dick admits to him and Bush knowing all about the torture and says he would do it again.
War criminals.