Systematic Subjugation of Women by Religion
Comments
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Pastafarianism comes to mind although I could be mistaken.lukin2006 said:Are there any religions that treat woman as 100% equal?
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Jumpin jesus beans to make that conclusion from what she said, that is one hell of an intellectual leap badbrains... I think you are better than that!badbrains said:
IndiaPJ_Soul said:
Yeah, your last three are indeed gobbledegook, and what I said in each three points has nothing to do with 13% of India being Muslim. Geez, can't a person have a badly placed sentence around here without getting the third degree? Sheesh. The treatment by government of the crime of rape is certainly connected to women's positions in society, India has a lot of Muslims (and other religions that lag in women's rights, for that matter). I should have mentioned Pakistan too, but didn't. I can't believe you put this much time into this, lol.benjs said:PJ_Soul said:I think the focus on Muslims when it comes to this topic comes from the fact that in present times that is the major culture/religion that still supports some pretty extreme cases of subjugation. It is the group of women who are most in need of change right now, since Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality. I am VERY aware of female inequality in my OWN culture (can't say in my religion because I don't have one), but women's rights is light years ahead in western nations compared to where it is in the middle east and southeast Asia (my theory is that this is partly because of separation of church and state in the west). I mean, women were only just granted the right to DRIVE in UAE. India is only just now starting to pay attention to men who rape women. Now where do we think that attention needs to go?? THAT is why we're talking about Muslims badbrains.
PJ_Soul, please see your post on top, and your post below. In your first comment, you seem to imply several different things at once:PJ_Soul said:
Uhhh... I do know the difference. Not sure what you're saying. That there are no Muslims in India? There are millions and millions of them.badbrains said:
You would think someone who works in "university" would know the difference between India and Pakistan. And Hinduism and Islam.
What's with the quotes on university?
Stop sniping at me. It's so pointless.
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality.
3) Women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, potentially as a byproduct of the separation of church and state in Western culture.
Of these three points, the only evidences you offered included that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE, and that India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
Your first piece of evidence is valid, and proves the first implication, as well as the second as a byproduct of the third.
Your second piece of evidence is that India - a predominantly Hindu country which does not reside within the boundaries of Southeast Asia (which start east of India) - are now paying attention to men who rape women. How that could prove the first or third implications is beyond me, and the second implication, simply put, I don't understand why it's even there (it's given one sentence) lumped into a post that predominantly reads as one condescending towards Islamic culture.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on this trail of logic, you seem to be saying saying:
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation, as shown by the fact that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality, as shown by the fact that women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, potentially as a byproduct of the separation of church and state in Western culture, as shown by the fact that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE. If you don't mind throwing geography or demographics out the window, you can also add to that the fact that the fact that India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women as evidence.
3) The two pieces of evidence above would then be applied to your third point, that women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.
These three implication-evidence pairs vary in legitimacy as I explained above, but at best, the evidences are too weak to merit such an unequivocal (or at the very least, overstated) condemnation of Islam for its rights towards women. Honestly, based on this, I struggle to see how anyone would be persuaded to believe what you're trying to propose.
As for your second statement in response to badbrains (which I am assuming is part of the same train of thought as your first statement), I understood this as you trying to say one of:
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
3) Women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
These three just sound like entire gobbledegook to me, but to be fair, maybe you were trying to argue something else at this point and I didn't catch that.
Am I missing something, or are others doing this right now as well? :-?
As always, if I've misunderstood, misconstrued, or failed to apply good logic, please call me out on it!
Seriously, that India comment was basically an afterthought. You're way over-thinking it.
Religion Number %
Muslims 138,188,240 13.4
So in a country of 1.7 billion people who of which 80% are Hindu, you're basically claiming that rape happens to be commited predominately by their Muslim population? Anyone else see a pattern here? Or is it just me? Now you DEF lost me. Afterthought, you need to think more about what you're about to post, before actually posting.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Jeepers benjs that's a hell of an analysis... But why put so much effort into shredding a post that was clearly written off the cuff? Does every post on the train need to be a well constructed, cohesive treatise with MLS bibliography???? I mean come on!benjs said:PJ_Soul said:I think the focus on Muslims when it comes to this topic comes from the fact that in present times that is the major culture/religion that still supports some pretty extreme cases of subjugation. It is the group of women who are most in need of change right now, since Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality. I am VERY aware of female inequality in my OWN culture (can't say in my religion because I don't have one), but women's rights is light years ahead in western nations compared to where it is in the middle east and southeast Asia (my theory is that this is partly because of separation of church and state in the west). I mean, women were only just granted the right to DRIVE in UAE. India is only just now starting to pay attention to men who rape women. Now where do we think that attention needs to go?? THAT is why we're talking about Muslims badbrains.
PJ_Soul, please see your post on top, and your post below. In your first comment, you seem to imply several different things at once:PJ_Soul said:
Uhhh... I do know the difference. Not sure what you're saying. That there are no Muslims in India? There are millions and millions of them.badbrains said:
You would think someone who works in "university" would know the difference between India and Pakistan. And Hinduism and Islam.
What's with the quotes on university?
Stop sniping at me. It's so pointless.
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality.
3) Women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, potentially as a byproduct of the separation of church and state in Western culture.
Of these three points, the only evidences you offered included that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE, and that India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
Your first piece of evidence is valid, and proves the first implication, as well as the second as a byproduct of the third.
Your second piece of evidence is that India - a predominantly Hindu country which does not reside within the boundaries of Southeast Asia (which start east of India) - are now paying attention to men who rape women. How that could prove the first or third implications is beyond me, and the second implication, simply put, I don't understand why it's even there (it's given one sentence) lumped into a post that predominantly reads as one condescending towards Islamic culture.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on this trail of logic, you seem to be saying saying:
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation, as shown by the fact that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality, as shown by the fact that women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, potentially as a byproduct of the separation of church and state in Western culture, as shown by the fact that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE. If you don't mind throwing geography or demographics out the window, you can also add to that the fact that the fact that India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women as evidence.
3) The two pieces of evidence above would then be applied to your third point, that women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.
These three implication-evidence pairs vary in legitimacy as I explained above, but at best, the evidences are too weak to merit such an unequivocal (or at the very least, overstated) condemnation of Islam for its rights towards women. Honestly, based on this, I struggle to see how anyone would be persuaded to believe what you're trying to propose.
As for your second statement in response to badbrains (which I am assuming is part of the same train of thought as your first statement), I understood this as you trying to say one of:
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
3) Women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
These three just sound like entire gobbledegook to me, but to be fair, maybe you were trying to argue something else at this point and I didn't catch that.
Am I missing something, or are others doing this right now as well? :-?
As always, if I've misunderstood, misconstrued, or failed to apply good logic, please call me out on it!
Are you implying that the evidence to support widespread subjugation of women by predominantly Muslim countries doesn't exist? For Christ's sake they still fucking stone women for adultery in some countries!! If that is your claim I will do the damn research, and put together a doctoral thesis to show what we all know and PJSoul took for granted as common knowledge.
Or did you just want to nitpick for nitpickings sake?Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Wow, you really like to have the last fucken word huh? Jesus Christ. :-@PJ_Soul said:Yeah, or maybe take note that I'm not shitting all over you for claiming that the religion of Islam considers women equal to men but then admit that you actually don't know anything about that. If I'd pulled that I would have gotten slaughtered.
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Really? Then what did you take from her statement? I'm curious to hear this.rgambs said:
Jumpin jesus beans to make that conclusion from what she said, that is one hell of an intellectual leap badbrains... I think you are better than that!badbrains said:
IndiaPJ_Soul said:
Yeah, your last three are indeed gobbledegook, and what I said in each three points has nothing to do with 13% of India being Muslim. Geez, can't a person have a badly placed sentence around here without getting the third degree? Sheesh. The treatment by government of the crime of rape is certainly connected to women's positions in society, India has a lot of Muslims (and other religions that lag in women's rights, for that matter). I should have mentioned Pakistan too, but didn't. I can't believe you put this much time into this, lol.benjs said:PJ_Soul said:I think the focus on Muslims when it comes to this topic comes from the fact that in present times that is the major culture/religion that still supports some pretty extreme cases of subjugation. It is the group of women who are most in need of change right now, since Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality. I am VERY aware of female inequality in my OWN culture (can't say in my religion because I don't have one), but women's rights is light years ahead in western nations compared to where it is in the middle east and southeast Asia (my theory is that this is partly because of separation of church and state in the west). I mean, women were only just granted the right to DRIVE in UAE. India is only just now starting to pay attention to men who rape women. Now where do we think that attention needs to go?? THAT is why we're talking about Muslims badbrains.
PJ_Soul, please see your post on top, and your post below. In your first comment, you seem to imply several different things at once:PJ_Soul said:
Uhhh... I do know the difference. Not sure what you're saying. That there are no Muslims in India? There are millions and millions of them.badbrains said:
You would think someone who works in "university" would know the difference between India and Pakistan. And Hinduism and Islam.
What's with the quotes on university?
Stop sniping at me. It's so pointless.
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality.
3) Women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, potentially as a byproduct of the separation of church and state in Western culture.
Of these three points, the only evidences you offered included that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE, and that India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
Your first piece of evidence is valid, and proves the first implication, as well as the second as a byproduct of the third.
Your second piece of evidence is that India - a predominantly Hindu country which does not reside within the boundaries of Southeast Asia (which start east of India) - are now paying attention to men who rape women. How that could prove the first or third implications is beyond me, and the second implication, simply put, I don't understand why it's even there (it's given one sentence) lumped into a post that predominantly reads as one condescending towards Islamic culture.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on this trail of logic, you seem to be saying saying:
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation, as shown by the fact that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality, as shown by the fact that women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, potentially as a byproduct of the separation of church and state in Western culture, as shown by the fact that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE. If you don't mind throwing geography or demographics out the window, you can also add to that the fact that the fact that India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women as evidence.
3) The two pieces of evidence above would then be applied to your third point, that women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.
These three implication-evidence pairs vary in legitimacy as I explained above, but at best, the evidences are too weak to merit such an unequivocal (or at the very least, overstated) condemnation of Islam for its rights towards women. Honestly, based on this, I struggle to see how anyone would be persuaded to believe what you're trying to propose.
As for your second statement in response to badbrains (which I am assuming is part of the same train of thought as your first statement), I understood this as you trying to say one of:
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
3) Women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
These three just sound like entire gobbledegook to me, but to be fair, maybe you were trying to argue something else at this point and I didn't catch that.
Am I missing something, or are others doing this right now as well? :-?
As always, if I've misunderstood, misconstrued, or failed to apply good logic, please call me out on it!
Seriously, that India comment was basically an afterthought. You're way over-thinking it.
Religion Number %
Muslims 138,188,240 13.4
So in a country of 1.7 billion people who of which 80% are Hindu, you're basically claiming that rape happens to be commited predominately by their Muslim population? Anyone else see a pattern here? Or is it just me? Now you DEF lost me. Afterthought, you need to think more about what you're about to post, before actually posting.0 -
I watched a similar documentary (maybe it was this one?) awhile back. How people - man or woman - take advantage of the trust placed in them. They're supposed to bring guidance and solace (for god's sake!).chadwick said:how about nuns abuse & crimes on thousands women & young girls?
http://youtu.be/clU-9-1U3dw
Just as awful as the crimes committed by priests.
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I took that under attack about the demographics in India she fired back that there are plenty of Muslims in India. The implication I took from that was 1) none, she was just swinging back and didn't mean to imply anything specific, or 2) that surely having millions of followers of a religion proven to often be oppressive of women contributes to a situation where women are oppressed.
To take away from her statement that Muslim men rape is a bit of a stretch.Post edited by rgambs onMonkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
To be entirely honest, the reason that I put so much effort into it was because I perceived it to be an attack aimed disproportionately at one selective group, based on flawed evidence. That's what I'd consider discrimination based on religion, and I don't think it should be allowed to go unchecked. I'm sorry that this all seems pedantic or unnecessary, but I believe in speaking up against prejudice and discrimination.rgambs said:
Jeepers benjs that's a hell of an analysis... But why put so much effort into shredding a post that was clearly written off the cuff? Does every post on the train need to be a well constructed, cohesive treatise with MLS bibliography???? I mean come on!benjs said:PJ_Soul said:I think the focus on Muslims when it comes to this topic comes from the fact that in present times that is the major culture/religion that still supports some pretty extreme cases of subjugation. It is the group of women who are most in need of change right now, since Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality. I am VERY aware of female inequality in my OWN culture (can't say in my religion because I don't have one), but women's rights is light years ahead in western nations compared to where it is in the middle east and southeast Asia (my theory is that this is partly because of separation of church and state in the west). I mean, women were only just granted the right to DRIVE in UAE. India is only just now starting to pay attention to men who rape women. Now where do we think that attention needs to go?? THAT is why we're talking about Muslims badbrains.
PJ_Soul, please see your post on top, and your post below. In your first comment, you seem to imply several different things at once:PJ_Soul said:
Uhhh... I do know the difference. Not sure what you're saying. That there are no Muslims in India? There are millions and millions of them.badbrains said:
You would think someone who works in "university" would know the difference between India and Pakistan. And Hinduism and Islam.
What's with the quotes on university?
Stop sniping at me. It's so pointless.
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality.
3) Women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, potentially as a byproduct of the separation of church and state in Western culture.
Of these three points, the only evidences you offered included that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE, and that India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
Your first piece of evidence is valid, and proves the first implication, as well as the second as a byproduct of the third.
Your second piece of evidence is that India - a predominantly Hindu country which does not reside within the boundaries of Southeast Asia (which start east of India) - are now paying attention to men who rape women. How that could prove the first or third implications is beyond me, and the second implication, simply put, I don't understand why it's even there (it's given one sentence) lumped into a post that predominantly reads as one condescending towards Islamic culture.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on this trail of logic, you seem to be saying saying:
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation, as shown by the fact that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality, as shown by the fact that women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, potentially as a byproduct of the separation of church and state in Western culture, as shown by the fact that women were only just granted the right to drive in the UAE. If you don't mind throwing geography or demographics out the window, you can also add to that the fact that the fact that India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women as evidence.
3) The two pieces of evidence above would then be applied to your third point, that women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.
These three implication-evidence pairs vary in legitimacy as I explained above, but at best, the evidences are too weak to merit such an unequivocal (or at the very least, overstated) condemnation of Islam for its rights towards women. Honestly, based on this, I struggle to see how anyone would be persuaded to believe what you're trying to propose.
As for your second statement in response to badbrains (which I am assuming is part of the same train of thought as your first statement), I understood this as you trying to say one of:
1) Islamic culture is the major culture/religion that still supports extreme subjugation, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
2) Christian and Jewish women have achieved more equality, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
3) Women's rights are greater in the Western world than in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, as shown by the fact that 13% of India's population is Muslim, and India is just beginning to pay attention to men who rape women.
These three just sound like entire gobbledegook to me, but to be fair, maybe you were trying to argue something else at this point and I didn't catch that.
Am I missing something, or are others doing this right now as well? :-?
As always, if I've misunderstood, misconstrued, or failed to apply good logic, please call me out on it!
Are you implying that the evidence to support widespread subjugation of women by predominantly Muslim countries doesn't exist? For Christ's sake they still fucking stone women for adultery in some countries!! If that is your claim I will do the damn research, and put together a doctoral thesis to show what we all know and PJSoul took for granted as common knowledge.
Or did you just want to nitpick for nitpickings sake?
I don't believe that PJ_Soul was being malicious in her words, but I was hoping to bring attention to some prejudice that I thought I had witnessed - though maybe and hopefully I'm wrong. I think everyone needs to eliminate it in themselves to the best of their abilities if we're all to understand each other and engage each other meaningfully here. For the record, PJ_Soul, if you ever see what I'm preaching against in me, please tell me. I'm incredibly far from perfect.Post edited by benjs on'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Read the other threads on religion and you will see that she attacks all religions with equal vigor, and I admire it! I personally think it's obvious this topic has special relevance with Islam, do you agree?Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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Thanks, yes. And in fact what I talked about was not who was doing the raping but how they were dealt with by law. But anyway, I think it's been established that I didn't mean it the way it was taken, and I don't get why some have glommed onto that one sentence while ignoring everything else i said. Frustrating.rgambs said:I took that under attack about the demographics in India she fired back that there are plenty of Muslims in India. The implication I took from that was 1) none, she was just swinging back and didn't mean to imply anything specific, or 2) that surely having millions of followers of a religion proven to often be oppressive of women contributes to a situation where women are oppressed.
To take away from her statement that Muslim men rape is a bit of a stretch.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
A bit of a stretch? Really? But yet making a statement about how 13% of a population somehow add oppression to the women of said country isn't? In a country of 1.7 Billion? Really? That's pretty funny. And it's also funny that you called bens and my posts directly out, yet for some strange reason you didn't take her to task on her A-25% of Muslims are extreme or whatever poll and B-the Muslim population in India somehow add to the rape or oppression of women there or whatever she was talking about. Why is that? And what Ben posted was absolutely right. She wrote something that wasn't off the cuff. She thought it out, it was a long post, she must of reread it before she posted it no? And just like she's been calling people out, as has you, he called her out on it. I'm not trying to start shit with you cuz as far as I can tell, you seem like a good person, mite not agree on a lot of things but doesn't mean I don't value what you have to say. I just think if you're gonna call someone out on some bullshit, you have to call everyone out on their bullshit.rgambs said:I took that under attack about the demographics in India she fired back that there are plenty of Muslims in India. The implication I took from that was 1) none, she was just swinging back and didn't mean to imply anything specific, or 2) that surely having millions of followers of a religion proven to often be oppressive of women contributes to a situation where women are oppressed.
To take away from her statement that Muslim men rape is a bit of a stretch.Post edited by badbrains on0 -
My take away from that is that you don't think I'm good person. Kay.
I already explained myself on BOTH of these points badbrains. You're just beating a dead horse IMO.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Wasn't even talking to you Jesus. You love to poke. It's not that I don't think you're a good person (I can careless) I, personally, bad brains, find u to be a phony. IMO, and if you'd like, maybe I'll sit down and send u a pm explaining why, if not, no loss to me.PJ_Soul said:My take away from that is that you don't think I'm good person. Kay.
I already explained myself on BOTH of these points badbrains. You're just beating a dead horse IMO.0 -
This thread pretty much sums up why I dislike religion. Now this is likely a gross oversimplification of things but it seems to me that most religions seem to focus on following a set of obscenely outdated texts rather than encouraging members to think independently (ironically, this also includes ardent atheists who seem as focused on indoctrination as most religious people do). It certainly doesn't help to know that those texts were written in a time period where women were worth less than dirt. I have a hard time when people tell me that these texts preach tolerance because I have rarely seen evidence that supports such a claim. For every passage that speaks about being kind unto thy neighbour there is another that demeans, threatens or subjugates women, homosexuals or non-believers. Only through a lose interpretation of such texts is it even possible to claim that these religions are remotely tolerant, and even then it leaves the door open for intolerant practitioners to reconcile their mistreatment of others.
Simply put; I don't like the idea of Christianity, Judaism or Islam. From what I can see, the texts are hopelessly outdated and tremendously cruel. A literal interpretation of any of these texts seems incredibly dangerous to me which is why fundamentalists of any faith scare the crap out of me.
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I do, yes. Not an exclusive relevance by any means, but a special and significant relevance in today's world.rgambs said:I personally think it's obvious this topic has special relevance with Islam, do you agree?
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
I wasn't a part of the thread with the 25% business and I haven't read it so that's why I didn't weigh in on it. That's why I started a new thread, and in this thread I saw a 2 on 1 fight so I jumped in to help her out. It isn't super easy to be logical and concise when it is coming from more than 1 direction.badbrains said:
A bit of a stretch? Really? But yet making a statement about how 13% of a population somehow add oppression to the women of said country isn't? In a country of 1.7 Billion? Really? That's pretty funny. And it's also funny that you called bens and my posts directly out, yet for some strange reason you didn't take her to task on her A-25% of Muslims are extreme or whatever poll and B-the Muslim population in India somehow add to the rape or oppression of women there or whatever she was talking about. Why is that? And what Ben posted was absolutely right. She wrote something that wasn't off the cuff. She thought it out, it was a long post, she must of reread it before she posted it no? And just like she's been calling people out, as has you, he called her out on it. I'm not trying to start shit with you cuz as far as I can tell, you seem like a good person, mite not agree on a lot of things but doesn't mean I don't value what you have to say. I just think if you're gonna call someone out on some bullshit, you have to call everyone out on their bullshit.rgambs said:I took that under attack about the demographics in India she fired back that there are plenty of Muslims in India. The implication I took from that was 1) none, she was just swinging back and didn't mean to imply anything specific, or 2) that surely having millions of followers of a religion proven to often be oppressive of women contributes to a situation where women are oppressed.
To take away from her statement that Muslim men rape is a bit of a stretch.
And yes, I think 13% is a large enough proportion to add to the oppression of a particular group in a particular place. A few staunch racists held civil rights back for years in America, in India I can easily imagine that fundamentalist Muslims contribute to oppression, even if just by supporting oppression by the Hindu majority. I don't really know much about the governance of India so I can't say for sure. I don't have any problems with you, I like your zest, I do feel this has gotten a little personal though, some distance would be good for y'all...religion gets folks heated lol I love it!Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Sure, send me a PM.badbrains said:
Wasn't even talking to you Jesus. You love to poke. It's not that I don't think you're a good person (I can careless) I, personally, bad brains, find u to be a phony. IMO, and if you'd like, maybe I'll sit down and send u a pm explaining why, if not, no loss to me.PJ_Soul said:My take away from that is that you don't think I'm good person. Kay.
I already explained myself on BOTH of these points badbrains. You're just beating a dead horse IMO.
I'm not a phony everyone.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
I dont think Christianity have Systematic Subjugation of women, true Christianity just teaches that man take responsible headship of worship and family not meaning they can rape the women or boss them around but meaning they make the proper decisions according to bible guidelines and women to compliment their husbands in their decisions if not even change their minds so women too get their say provided their husband is not a jerk and ignores their wifes views, that is true Christianity, because God made a companion ''compliment'' for Adam as headship, man is supposed to be leader and woman have allowance to manipulate their views to otherwise with power of reason...0
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Fair enough, I like your honesty.rgambs said:
I wasn't a part of the thread with the 25% business and I haven't read it so that's why I didn't weigh in on it. That's why I started a new thread, and in this thread I saw a 2 on 1 fight so I jumped in to help her out. It isn't super easy to be logical and concise when it is coming from more than 1 direction.badbrains said:
A bit of a stretch? Really? But yet making a statement about how 13% of a population somehow add oppression to the women of said country isn't? In a country of 1.7 Billion? Really? That's pretty funny. And it's also funny that you called bens and my posts directly out, yet for some strange reason you didn't take her to task on her A-25% of Muslims are extreme or whatever poll and B-the Muslim population in India somehow add to the rape or oppression of women there or whatever she was talking about. Why is that? And what Ben posted was absolutely right. She wrote something that wasn't off the cuff. She thought it out, it was a long post, she must of reread it before she posted it no? And just like she's been calling people out, as has you, he called her out on it. I'm not trying to start shit with you cuz as far as I can tell, you seem like a good person, mite not agree on a lot of things but doesn't mean I don't value what you have to say. I just think if you're gonna call someone out on some bullshit, you have to call everyone out on their bullshit.rgambs said:I took that under attack about the demographics in India she fired back that there are plenty of Muslims in India. The implication I took from that was 1) none, she was just swinging back and didn't mean to imply anything specific, or 2) that surely having millions of followers of a religion proven to often be oppressive of women contributes to a situation where women are oppressed.
To take away from her statement that Muslim men rape is a bit of a stretch.
And yes, I think 13% is a large enough proportion to add to the oppression of a particular group in a particular place. A few staunch racists held civil rights back for years in America, in India I can easily imagine that fundamentalist Muslims contribute to oppression, even if just by supporting oppression by the Hindu majority. I don't really know much about the governance of India so I can't say for sure. I don't have any problems with you, I like your zest, I do feel this has gotten a little personal though, some distance would be good for y'all...religion gets folks heated lol I love it!0 -
I said IMO. I will gladly send u the pm, hopefully you'll see where I'm coming from.PJ_Soul said:
Sure, send me a PM.badbrains said:
Wasn't even talking to you Jesus. You love to poke. It's not that I don't think you're a good person (I can careless) I, personally, bad brains, find u to be a phony. IMO, and if you'd like, maybe I'll sit down and send u a pm explaining why, if not, no loss to me.PJ_Soul said:My take away from that is that you don't think I'm good person. Kay.
I already explained myself on BOTH of these points badbrains. You're just beating a dead horse IMO.
I'm not a phony everyone.0
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