Prostitution..should it be legalized ?

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

George Carlin can't be right all the time. The selling of human beings and the sociological issues involved aren't a simple or black and white matter at all.

Selling sex isn't selling a human.

I consider paying money to use a person's body to be the same as buying a person. Well, renting, anyway. That doesn't sit well with me (obviously). And let's not forget the sex trafficking trade. That is actually the buying and selling of people, and IMO, legalizing and accepting prostitution legitimize such illegal activities in the minds of those participating in it. Mindsets need to change when it comes to this issue, and legalizing does the exact opposite of that.

What you're saying makes a lot of sense, PJ_Soul, yet making it legal makes some sense as well because that kind of "business" will never stop. So what's needed is something that encompasses your concerns with those of the arguments in favor of legalizing. I'm not sure what that would look like but it sure seems like a question worth pursuing. In any case, I agree that shutting down the sex traffic trade should be a priority. It's bad in North America and horrific in some third world countries.

By the way, as a side note, one of the things I've always respected about people like George Carlin, Bill Maher, Amy Goodman, James Howard Kunstler, Edward Abbey, etc., etc. and even some fellow PJ fans here is that even when I disagree with some of the things they've said- maybe even strongly disagree- they always challenge my thinking and push me further in the direction of critical thinking.

Thanks for all your kind comments in this thread Brian. I've had some pretty unpopular perspective on various things lately, lol, so it is nice to feel acceptance even without agreement.

Definitely, it's really in issue that is comp oedema of a rock and a hard place. I don't actually disagree with any of the points made about the benefits of legalizing. It's just that one has to pick anise on this one.... and I guess my sensibilities when it comes to what prostitution really means to women in society and what the act of people using them in this way says about attitudes towards women and sex in general trumps all the logical points for legalization.

Pick anise

I see what you're saying; as a woman - hell, as a human being - I want to be treated with the respect I extend toward others. But (and putting sex trafficking aside, because I think it's separate from prostitution), if someone is willing to enter into such a transaction, taking away the crime factor, making it safe for the parties, the benefits are sensible.

Again, porn is OK? The modeling industry is OK? All the other ways people "sell" themselves?

I value the intimacy of sex - hell, even kissing. But, I know others don't (nor do they have to).

I see it like if someone is selling sex - they are abusing themselves. Maybe they aren't even aware of it.
Therefore it feels wrong to legalize it since no one should be abused.

I appreciate your empathy, but if you deem this as self-pollution and should therefore be illegal...how about smoking? Drinking? AGAIN - porn, or any other adult decision made that someone else might decry?

rgambs said:

Annafalk said:

I see it like if someone is selling sex - they are abusing themselves. Maybe they aren't even aware of it.
Therefore it feels wrong to legalize it since no one should be abused.

but if self-abuse is the norm should they not at least make money on which to build a better life? Thats the core of my feeling on the subject.

It doesn't feel like much to build on...I would wish they could get help to get a real job.

Annafalk said:

rgambs said:

Annafalk said:

I see it like if someone is selling sex - they are abusing themselves. Maybe they aren't even aware of it.
Therefore it feels wrong to legalize it since no one should be abused.

but if self-abuse is the norm should they not at least make money on which to build a better life? Thats the core of my feeling on the subject.

It doesn't feel like much to build on...I would wish they could get help to get a real job.

a prostitute can easily make 100,000+ in a year...enough to buy a home and go into business for yourself...thats powerful building material

rgambs said:

Annafalk said:

rgambs said:

Annafalk said:

I see it like if someone is selling sex - they are abusing themselves. Maybe they aren't even aware of it.
Therefore it feels wrong to legalize it since no one should be abused.

but if self-abuse is the norm should they not at least make money on which to build a better life? Thats the core of my feeling on the subject.

It doesn't feel like much to build on...I would wish they could get help to get a real job.

a prostitute can easily make 100,000+ in a year...enough to buy a home and go into business for yourself...thats powerful building material

Ok, I guess it can bring in lots of money, but will this life make her happy?

Annafalk said:

hedonist said:

I appreciate your empathy, but if you deem this as self-pollution and should therefore be illegal...how about smoking? Drinking? AGAIN - porn, or any other adult decision made that someone else might decry?

Yes grown up people has a free will to harm themselves in different ways. But the law doesn't have to approve of it.

Legality isn't necessarily approval - plethora of examples to be found in our society.

And as to "real job" - in whose eyes?

This is a huge topic!
There are so many aspects that could be pulled out of the discussion and expanded upon.

In a discussion thread like this, as individuals we fixate on small pieces of the puzzle and hold on to that bit, but we're not all looking at the whole subject.

There's freewill in here (adults having the right to harm themselves!)
There's the relation to slavery and people being bought, sold, rented.
There's the argument about whether sex is more than a physical act or a spiritual one.
There are the health and safety issues.
There's the problem with societal acceptance, rejection.
There's the aspect of sexual freedom vs. repression.
There's the problem of treating people as if they are not feeling beings but objects
.
(I could even mention that if some scientists built a machine with orifices for fucking, people who buy other people for sex wouldn't want them because they would MISS the power over another person aspect. That's what I feel is buried and ignored here. There's an aspect to prostitution that is rather evil. That needing to buy and dominate another human being. I don't think it's just people wanting to fuck because they like sex or the physical sensations!)

That's just the bare minimum of topics that could be discussed when thinking of this big puzzle and
we can all argue our little piece of the puzzle and get no where.

I think I've been pretty open on this, in my own views and those of others, but perhaps not to the extent I thought. Don't think I'm clinging to little shards of this discussion; what purpose would that serve?

For those who get off on domination and the like, there are those who are willing to fit the bill on either end - and it's legal!

God bless free will...what one may see as alarmingly harmful, another may not. And so we choose to do what is right for us at the time. Should another fret at the choice...welcome to life!

So...meet someone at a bar, fucking ensues (sometimes it's just about that and nothing more) and all is well.

Enter money. THAT makes it illegal?

Just absurd.

Leezestarr313 said:

The legalization does not mean that it's a free for all. In Germany, prostitution is legal, but human trafficking or forcing somebody into prostitution or underage street whores are not. The legalization is there to make things easier for those who choose to work in this profession on an honest base to make a living. It is not there to encourage abusers to make easy money by abusing others. These would not be covered by the legalization anyway. Their situation would be just as before and they would not stop doing it.

It also dictates regular health screenings doesnt it?