I see it like if someone is selling sex - they are abusing themselves. Maybe they aren't even aware of it. Therefore it feels wrong to legalize it since no one should be abused.
but if self-abuse is the norm should they not at least make money on which to build a better life? Thats the core of my feeling on the subject.
It doesn't feel like much to build on...I would wish they could get help to get a real job.
a prostitute can easily make 100,000+ in a year...enough to buy a home and go into business for yourself...thats powerful building material
Ok, I guess it can bring in lots of money, but will this life make her happy?
yeah tobacco & alcohol are far more repulsive than paying for some kind of sexual act. one day tobacco will be illegal & dealers & buyers of the stuff will be in trouble. i honestly believe this & it isn't that difficult to see it leaning in this direction already
how many sex workers are beat, raped & killed where sex work is legal & well watched over in a redlight district? how many sex workers are beat, raped & killed where sex work is illegal & done in the shadows?
I appreciate your empathy, but if you deem this as self-pollution and should therefore be illegal...how about smoking? Drinking? AGAIN - porn, or any other adult decision made that someone else might decry?
Yes grown up people has a free will to harm themselves in different ways. But the law doesn't have to approve of it.
Legality isn't necessarily approval - plethora of examples to be found in our society.
The worlds oldest profession. It's not going to change, ever, nor do I think it should. The sooner we all come to that realization the faster we can make it safer for everyone. To me that's what this comes down to. Shining a light on it and making it safer.
A women can do what she likes with her body, who am I to judge or say different.
This is a huge topic! There are so many aspects that could be pulled out of the discussion and expanded upon.
In a discussion thread like this, as individuals we fixate on small pieces of the puzzle and hold on to that bit, but we're not all looking at the whole subject.
There's freewill in here (adults having the right to harm themselves!) There's the relation to slavery and people being bought, sold, rented. There's the argument about whether sex is more than a physical act or a spiritual one. There are the health and safety issues. There's the problem with societal acceptance, rejection. There's the aspect of sexual freedom vs. repression. There's the problem of treating people as if they are not feeling beings but objects . (I could even mention that if some scientists built a machine with orifices for fucking, people who buy other people for sex wouldn't want them because they would MISS the power over another person aspect. That's what I feel is buried and ignored here. There's an aspect to prostitution that is rather evil. That needing to buy and dominate another human being. I don't think it's just people wanting to fuck because they like sex or the physical sensations!)
That's just the bare minimum of topics that could be discussed when thinking of this big puzzle and we can all argue our little piece of the puzzle and get no where.
I think I've been pretty open on this, in my own views and those of others, but perhaps not to the extent I thought. Don't think I'm clinging to little shards of this discussion; what purpose would that serve?
For those who get off on domination and the like, there are those who are willing to fit the bill on either end - and it's legal!
God bless free will...what one may see as alarmingly harmful, another may not. And so we choose to do what is right for us at the time. Should another fret at the choice...welcome to life!
So...meet someone at a bar, fucking ensues (sometimes it's just about that and nothing more) and all is well.
The legalization does not mean that it's a free for all. In Germany, prostitution is legal, but human trafficking or forcing somebody into prostitution or underage street whores are not. The legalization is there to make things easier for those who choose to work in this profession on an honest base to make a living. It is not there to encourage abusers to make easy money by abusing others. These would not be covered by the legalization anyway. Their situation would be just as before and they would not stop doing it.
It also dictates regular health screenings doesnt it?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Another one of my naive, idealistic comments but... if our societies and parents taught people to be open, self confident, respectful, kind and mutually respectful maybe there would be no prostitution, legal or otherwise.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
This is a huge topic! There are so many aspects that could be pulled out of the discussion and expanded upon.
In a discussion thread like this, as individuals we fixate on small pieces of the puzzle and hold on to that bit, but we're not all looking at the whole subject.
There's freewill in here (adults having the right to harm themselves!) There's the relation to slavery and people being bought, sold, rented. There's the argument about whether sex is more than a physical act or a spiritual one. There are the health and safety issues. There's the problem with societal acceptance, rejection. There's the aspect of sexual freedom vs. repression. There's the problem of treating people as if they are not feeling beings but objects . (I could even mention that if some scientists built a machine with orifices for fucking, people who buy other people for sex wouldn't want them because they would MISS the power over another person aspect. That's what I feel is buried and ignored here. There's an aspect to prostitution that is rather evil. That needing to buy and dominate another human being. I don't think it's just people wanting to fuck because they like sex or the physical sensations!)
That's just the bare minimum of topics that could be discussed when thinking of this big puzzle and we can all argue our little piece of the puzzle and get no where.
Yes, I believe it should be legalized. For many reasons. The government can profit by taxing it. Buyers and Sellers both could benefit from safer practices and policies. With all emotions aside... IT is the one of the oldest professions in our historical catalogs. It will continue with or with out legalization. Prostitution is prevalent in every culture and includes men as much as women.
The legalization does not mean that it's a free for all. In Germany, prostitution is legal, but human trafficking or forcing somebody into prostitution or underage street whores are not. The legalization is there to make things easier for those who choose to work in this profession on an honest base to make a living. It is not there to encourage abusers to make easy money by abusing others. These would not be covered by the legalization anyway. Their situation would be just as before and they would not stop doing it.
It also dictates regular health screenings doesnt it?
I think so.
Here's a website with a little more info with pros and cons. http://prostitution.procon.org/ Haven't read all of it, but this is my bookmark for later.
Post edited by Leezestarr313 on
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
By the way, there ARE machines and those plastic blowup dealios with said orifices for fucking.
Amazing!
I know. That's the point. Prostitution still exists because the customers want MORE than just a hole to fuck and the release of sexual tension. They want a human being yet they don't want to have to treat the prostitute as an equal human being.
She gets social security, better access to health care, protection by law in general in exchange. Making it legal also is supposed to prevent women from being completely dependent on a pimp who takes a big chunk of their money. It will be easier for them to be self employed. With all the rights that a self employed person has.
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
Well it sounds fine but does it work in the reality. People in this kind of business will still be scumbags. But I can not really know if it would work better, maybe it does?
By the way, there ARE machines and those plastic blowup dealios with said orifices for fucking.
Amazing!
I know. That's the point. Prostitution still exists because the customers want MORE than just a hole to fuck and the release of sexual tension. They want a human being yet they don't want to have to treat the prostitute as an equal human being.
Yeah, I'm with dignin. I don't know how motives of the buyer can be assigned, though I think maybe they're projected...?
Leeze, it sounds like a good deal there - at least, a realistic and beneficial one.
Another one of my naive, idealistic comments but... if our societies and parents taught people to be open, self confident, respectful, kind and mutually respectful maybe there would be no prostitution, legal or otherwise.
By the way, there ARE machines and those plastic blowup dealios with said orifices for fucking.
Amazing!
They want a human being yet they don't want to have to treat the prostitute as an equal human being.
This is an assumption and a judgement.
It IS an assumption and a judgement. I feel it's a fair assessment though and I'll tell you why...
In the world, people can obtain sex free of charge from other people by being desirable to the people. I don't mean they have to be beautiful, I mean they have to behave in such a way that another person finds them desirable. That usually takes treating another person well!!
Our species has had a lot of sex and usually it's between people who want each other. When an individual finds him or herself in a place where no one wants to have sex with him or her there is usually a reason.
Total equality would mean that people have to find other people willing to have sex with them for free!!
I'm all for FREE sex. Not coerced sex. Paying someone is a way of getting them to do something they wouldn't otherwise want to do with you!
I work in health care and many of my clients are or have been sex trade workers. Only one, out of dozens I've met, have felt positively about sex work. 100% of them have been addicted and are doing sex work to afford drugs. Typically they were drug users first and turned to sex trade to afford the drugs; I've never met anyone who started working in the sex trade and then got into drugs, but perhaps such people exist. Everybody had experienced violence and humiliation. The only woman who claimed to enjoy sex trade work was also heavily addicted to multiple substances, from heroin to crystal meth and crack, but still insisted she would be working in the sex trade if she wasn't using drugs (hard to tell, really, since she'd been using since her early teens).
Of course, this could all be a sampling artifact since I'm only seeing people with physical or mental health problems. Perhaps there are healthy and happy sex trade workers out there. If so, I think they would still be in the minority. It's not a field that tends to attract people who see themselves as having other options.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Once you strip all the social baggage away paying for massage is same as paying for sex. If both willingly agree to contract there is no taking advantage of either party. Also think the women charging 1000 per hour are the ones in control. All perspective.
Now I prefer to be in loving relationship but to each there own.
Well, for those of you who asked whether or not it was an unfair relationship and suggested that I was projecting this. Let's talk facts.
A prostitute has the job of getting the client to his orgasm however he wants it. It's her job to help him enjoy himself.
Do you think the customer is concerned with whether or not the prostitute likes what he's doing? Does he have to care whether or not she gets pleasure or pain from the experience? No.
He has paid her so he does not need to care about her pleasure or pain. This is a fundamental inequality in the experience that can't be denied!
A couple that is equal is one in which both parties want each other, and both parties need to care about the other person's pleasure.
Once you strip all the social baggage away paying for massage is same as paying for sex. If both willingly agree to contract there is no taking advantage of either party. Also think the women charging 1000 per hour are the ones in control. All perspective.
Now I prefer to be in loving relationship but to each there own.
>:)
I'm sure most don't charge such a high rate, but it reminded me of Heidi Fleiss and her extensive clientele (who would likely not have to pay for sex but chose to).
And with you on that last part! Never been into one-night stands and the like - it's just not me - but if others are and need a quick fix, OK by me.
I work in health care and many of my clients are or have been sex trade workers. Only one, out of dozens I've met, have felt positively about sex work. 100% of them have been addicted and are doing sex work to afford drugs. Typically they were drug users first and turned to sex trade to afford the drugs; I've never met anyone who started working in the sex trade and then got into drugs, but perhaps such people exist. Everybody had experienced violence and humiliation. The only woman who claimed to enjoy sex trade work was also heavily addicted to multiple substances, from heroin to crystal meth and crack, but still insisted she would be working in the sex trade if she wasn't using drugs (hard to tell, really, since she'd been using since her early teens).
Of course, this could all be a sampling artifact since I'm only seeing people with physical or mental health problems. Perhaps there are healthy and happy sex trade workers out there. If so, I think they would still be in the minority. It's not a field that tends to attract people who see themselves as having other options.
I really appreciate hearing from those with direct contact - perhaps you're correct on the status (and perhaps also on those with whom you specifically deal).
I don't think the majority seek it out and hopefully the paths leading them to this choice will change over time so it's not an option for others. But, as it stands, I don't see how legalizing it wouldn't improve conditions.
I work in health care and many of my clients are or have been sex trade workers. Only one, out of dozens I've met, have felt positively about sex work. 100% of them have been addicted and are doing sex work to afford drugs. Typically they were drug users first and turned to sex trade to afford the drugs; I've never met anyone who started working in the sex trade and then got into drugs, but perhaps such people exist. Everybody had experienced violence and humiliation. The only woman who claimed to enjoy sex trade work was also heavily addicted to multiple substances, from heroin to crystal meth and crack, but still insisted she would be working in the sex trade if she wasn't using drugs (hard to tell, really, since she'd been using since her early teens).
Of course, this could all be a sampling artifact since I'm only seeing people with physical or mental health problems. Perhaps there are healthy and happy sex trade workers out there. If so, I think they would still be in the minority. It's not a field that tends to attract people who see themselves as having other options.
Thank you for contributing, interesting information.
I work in health care and many of my clients are or have been sex trade workers. Only one, out of dozens I've met, have felt positively about sex work. 100% of them have been addicted and are doing sex work to afford drugs. Typically they were drug users first and turned to sex trade to afford the drugs; I've never met anyone who started working in the sex trade and then got into drugs, but perhaps such people exist. Everybody had experienced violence and humiliation. The only woman who claimed to enjoy sex trade work was also heavily addicted to multiple substances, from heroin to crystal meth and crack, but still insisted she would be working in the sex trade if she wasn't using drugs (hard to tell, really, since she'd been using since her early teens).
Of course, this could all be a sampling artifact since I'm only seeing people with physical or mental health problems. Perhaps there are healthy and happy sex trade workers out there. If so, I think they would still be in the minority. It's not a field that tends to attract people who see themselves as having other options.
Another reason to legalize all drugs. Keeping prostitution illegal exasperates the problem.
Comments
how many sex workers are beat, raped & killed where sex work is legal & well watched over in a redlight district? how many sex workers are beat, raped & killed where sex work is illegal & done in the shadows?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
And as to "real job" - in whose eyes?
A women can do what she likes with her body, who am I to judge or say different.
There are so many aspects that could be pulled out of the discussion and expanded upon.
In a discussion thread like this, as individuals we fixate on small pieces of the puzzle and hold on to that bit, but we're not all looking at the whole subject.
There's freewill in here (adults having the right to harm themselves!)
There's the relation to slavery and people being bought, sold, rented.
There's the argument about whether sex is more than a physical act or a spiritual one.
There are the health and safety issues.
There's the problem with societal acceptance, rejection.
There's the aspect of sexual freedom vs. repression.
There's the problem of treating people as if they are not feeling beings but objects
.
(I could even mention that if some scientists built a machine with orifices for fucking, people who buy other people for sex wouldn't want them because they would MISS the power over another person aspect. That's what I feel is buried and ignored here. There's an aspect to prostitution that is rather evil. That needing to buy and dominate another human being. I don't think it's just people wanting to fuck because they like sex or the physical sensations!)
That's just the bare minimum of topics that could be discussed when thinking of this big puzzle and
we can all argue our little piece of the puzzle and get no where.
For those who get off on domination and the like, there are those who are willing to fit the bill on either end - and it's legal!
God bless free will...what one may see as alarmingly harmful, another may not. And so we choose to do what is right for us at the time. Should another fret at the choice...welcome to life!
So...meet someone at a bar, fucking ensues (sometimes it's just about that and nothing more) and all is well.
Enter money. THAT makes it illegal?
Just absurd.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Amazing!
For many reasons.
The government can profit by taxing it.
Buyers and Sellers both could benefit from safer practices and policies.
With all emotions aside...
IT is the one of the oldest professions in our historical catalogs.
It will continue with or with out legalization.
Prostitution is prevalent in every culture and includes men as much as women.
Here's a website with a little more info with pros and cons. http://prostitution.procon.org/ Haven't read all of it, but this is my bookmark for later.
But I can not really know if it would work better, maybe it does?
^#(^
Leeze, it sounds like a good deal there - at least, a realistic and beneficial one.
In the world, people can obtain sex free of charge from other people by being desirable to the people. I don't mean they have to be beautiful, I mean they have to behave in such a way that another person finds them desirable. That usually takes treating another person well!!
Our species has had a lot of sex and usually it's between people who want each other. When an individual finds him or herself in a place where no one wants to have sex with him or her there is usually a reason.
Total equality would mean that people have to find other people willing to have sex with them for free!!
I'm all for FREE sex. Not coerced sex. Paying someone is a way of getting them to do something they wouldn't otherwise want to do with you!
Of course, this could all be a sampling artifact since I'm only seeing people with physical or mental health problems. Perhaps there are healthy and happy sex trade workers out there. If so, I think they would still be in the minority. It's not a field that tends to attract people who see themselves as having other options.
Now I prefer to be in loving relationship but to each there own.
>:)
A prostitute has the job of getting the client to his orgasm however he wants it. It's her job to help him enjoy himself.
Do you think the customer is concerned with whether or not the prostitute likes what he's doing? Does he have to care whether or not she gets pleasure or pain from the experience? No.
He has paid her so he does not need to care about her pleasure or pain. This is a fundamental inequality in the experience that can't be denied!
A couple that is equal is one in which both parties want each other, and both parties need to care about the other person's pleasure.
And with you on that last part! Never been into one-night stands and the like - it's just not me - but if others are and need a quick fix, OK by me.
I don't think the majority seek it out and hopefully the paths leading them to this choice will change over time so it's not an option for others. But, as it stands, I don't see how legalizing it wouldn't improve conditions.