Iraq

1…5681011…23

Comments

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,693
    edited June 2014
    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Godfather. said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Iraq has officially asked the US to help with air stikes.

    Gimmi her is an example of the deals I'm talking about,surly you don't think this is free,I just can't believe favors like this would come without a price.


    Godfather.

    Seems to me that the US owes them. These insurgents probably wouldn't be a problem if the US hadn't invaded in the first place. I am not saying there wouldn't be deals, but I'm not ready to make that assumption absolutely either, since this is brand new information and I have nothing to base that on so far. I mean, I'm sure the US government thinks it's in their interests to help without any new deals.... obviously, all existing deals aren't going anywhere.
    It is completely and utterly absurd to think that the United States owes Iraq support because we caused the terrorists to terrorize. No matter how ignorant GWB and DC motivations were for invading Iraq, it's done and over with. I've said it before, we toppled Saddam, then we're not welcome there anymore. Regardless of GW's lack of an exit strategy, the United states spent millions of dollars training the Iraqi military and police to protect themselves from this very threat. We helped that country put together their version of a democracy. So when we were ever so politely told to leave, that left the burden of responsibility to protect Iraq on Iraq.
    I disagree that it's reasonable for the US to unjustly invade a nation, fuck it right the hell up and create a problem of insurgents in that country, and then refuse to help them deal with said insurgents when asked, all because they figure they trained their security well enough (which they clearly didn't). What's happening in Iraq is a predictable result of the US's illegal militant actions, and I think the US is obligated to help when necessary. I don't expect you to agree with me, but that's how I see. I am fully aware that this could end up being another shit storm for the US.... but if the US doesn't want shit storms, then they shouldn't start them in the first place.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited June 2014
    Ahhh njnancy, I wasnt trying to insult or belittle you in anyway. All I was doing was writing and stating how I feel about the situation. I mentioned the gulf war and 911 because your post reminded of some things. In no way was I trying to belittle u or anything like that. Trust me, if I had an issue with you, I'd have no problem calling you out DIRECTLY. That's who I am. And I reread my post and I did say "we" not "you". As much as I'd like to think I know everything, I know only a simple piece of the puzzle. I dnt care if anyone agrees with my opinions or not, this isn't what it's about. It's about right and wrong and what we did as a fucken country to Iraq is 100% WRONG. So I apologize to you NANCY, from my state of New Jersey, plz dnt take it personally. Wasn't meant that way.

    As for where I read that about saddam and sr, you're talking about something I read back in the 90's. 20 years ago, no internet back then. I'm sure it's somewhere on the internet now. Again, it was something I read a long time ago and even stated it was "fishy". Was it true, who the hell really knows. Again, I only know a small piece of the puzzle.
    Post edited by badbrains on
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    callen said:

    Hey BB. Like to see some backup on bush giving saddam go ahead on Kuwait.

    All about the control of oil/$$$$.

    Callen, it's ALWAYS about the OIL/$$$$$. And there's all kinds of ways of making it. think Afghanistan is ONLY about oil? Of course not. It's a machine, a well oiled (no pun intended) machine that has many moving parts. Destroy, rebuild, lend $$$, steal, someone has already mentioned the arts and artifacts destroyed or looted in Iraq. Priceless pieces. And we play the game everyday.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    edited June 2014

    It is completely and utterly absurd to think that the United States owes Iraq support because we caused the terrorists to terrorize. No matter how ignorant GWB and DC motivations were for invading Iraq, it's done and over with. I've said it before, we toppled Saddam, then we're not welcome there anymore. Regardless of GW's lack of an exit strategy, the United states spent millions of dollars training the Iraqi military and police to protect themselves from this very threat. We helped that country put together their version of a democracy. So when we were ever so politely told to leave, that left the burden of responsibility to protect Iraq on Iraq.
    I disagree that it's reasonable for the US to unjustly invade a nation, fuck it right the hell up and create a problem of insurgents in that country, and then refuse to help them deal with said insurgents when asked, all because they figure they trained their security well enough (which they clearly didn't). What's happening in Iraq is a predictable result of the US's illegal militant actions, and I think the US is obligated to help when necessary. I don't expect you to agree with me, but that's how I see. I am fully aware that this could end up being another shit storm for the US.... but if the US doesn't want shit storms, then they shouldn't start them in the first place.
    SORRY, I FUCKED UP THE QUOTE ABOVE

    I agree that we shouldn't have been in Iraq in the first place. And I'm sure you would agree that you learn from your past mistakes. Why would you insist that we go back to Iraq, knowing it will cause another shit storm? Because if we did go back to Iraq, and shit hits the fan, you will be the first one in this message board to say "fucking United states, they are so dumb. didn't they learn their ownlesson after the first time they were in Iraq for no reason?"
    And it's real easy to sit back and criticize how poorly our military was in training the Iraqi military. I'm not a military man nor have I been to Iraq, but I'm sure our boys trained those fuckers over there as best as they could.
    As far as the illegal militant actions: what was illegal? Was the United States ever penalized, or sanctioned by the UN or NATO for illegal activities in Iraq?
    Post edited by Last-12-Exit on
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited June 2014
    The green light to invade Kuwait is in the transcripts of a meeting between saddam and US ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie

    I also recall stories that the US had green lighted Kuwait to angle drill for oil, into Iraqi territory; another engineered conflict.
    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)

    Don't forget the falsified 'killing babies in incubators' story that galvanized public opinion against Iraq in prep for invasion.
  • njnancy
    njnancy Posts: 5,096
    badbrains said:

    Ahhh njnancy, I wasnt trying to insult or belittle you in anyway. All I was doing was writing and stating how I feel about the situation. I mentioned the gulf war and 911 because your post reminded of some things. In no way was I trying to belittle u or anything like that. Trust me, if I had an issue with you, I'd have no problem calling you out DIRECTLY. That's who I am. And I reread my post and I did say "we" not "you". As much as I'd like to think I know everything, I know only a simple piece of the puzzle. I dnt care if anyone agrees with my opinions or not, this isn't what it's about. It's about right and wrong and what we did as a fucken country to Iraq is 100% WRONG. So I apologize to you NANCY, from my state of New Jersey, plz dnt take it personally. Wasn't meant that way.

    As for where I read that about saddam and sr, you're talking about something I read back in the 90's. 20 years ago, no internet back then. I'm sure it's somewhere on the internet now. Again, it was something I read a long time ago and even stated it was "fishy". Was it true, who the hell really knows. Again, I only know a small piece of the puzzle.

    No hard feelings - I took your post personally and I shouldn't have. This topic arises passions in many different ways and the thoughts of those days watching the skyline change and dealing with a young child and my mom can bring me right back.

    I am interested to see if anything new develops cause right now there is nothing new (about which the public knows). Al Maliki, BTW, had asked for air strikes a couple of days ago and we said no.

    1990's - that's when i was a whiz at DOS, taught myself on the job - i still use it when i can.

    Peace to my fellow Jersey friend and everyone.
  • njnancy
    njnancy Posts: 5,096
    Drowned Out said:

    The green light to invade Kuwait is in the transcripts of a meeting between saddam and US ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie

    I also recall stories that the US had green lighted Kuwait to angle drill for oil, into Iraqi territory; another engineered conflict.

    Thank you for posting the information.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    Yes, thanks drowned out for posting. Appreciate the look up for me buddy.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    badbrains said:

    It's amazing how some people only look at things through their own eyes. One country's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter. Until we and I mean "we" all start to really understand what the fuck is really going on, we are nothing but opinions. I knew 2 people that died on 911 as did most people on the east coast. But 911 wasn't the first strike in this fucken bullshit game these fucken evil people of ALL sides play. If you think these lunatic Islamic "terrorists" just woke up one day and said fuck it let's attack America because they're "free" then you need more teaching and learning then most. Remember this, America has caused 911 all around the world for some time now. I want to state that when I say America, I mean the leaders of our country. Yes America is a great country of great people, BUT, the leaders we are suckered into believing are nothing more then money hungry monsters. And that goes for all other leaders in the world who allow fucked up shit to happen to good people.

    And someone mentioned the first gulf war. From what I read and understand, saddam told bush sr he was going into Kuwait and got permission. Now what happened after that, well, that's where it gets fishy. I heard Kuwait gave our government a blank check and said get him out. Who really knows?

    Sometimes if you look real hard and critically think,'you'll be able to understand some of what is going on. Sometimes it's even as easy as black and white.

    As for Iraq now, we DO owe them. We owe them more then we'll ever know or repay. But let's start with an honest helping hand. Not a fuck in the ass with no vasoline. Sorry for the graphic description but I'm so sick of this war. And I'm sick of all this bullshit. Enough. This fucken polluted era of life has to change! For all of us.

    My $.02

    We're all sick of this war. Right? I mean really, is anyone here thinking, "Yeah! Right on! More war in the middle east!"? I'm just not so sure any of this is simply black and white- most of us aren't privy to what goes on behind closed doors and up in ivory towers. Sometimes it's difficult to have much more than a formulated opinion or a stab in the dark as to what is what. I do get the sense that most of us here are fairly good at critical thinking- certainly more so than the average Joe Six Pack who doesn't even realize any of this shit is going on.

    I guess I'm just trying to say, "Hey badbrains, don't be so hard on your fellow train riders".

    ;)
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    dignin said:



    Let us not forget that Britain was a more than willing partner in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Not Britain. Tony Blair. The majority of Brits opposed the war before it had begun, which is why a million people took to the streets of London to protest it.

  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    I hear ya brian. But when are we, as a whole, ever gonna learn? When's enough? When do we FINALLY say ok, enough, we're done buying all the bullshit you're selling us. It has to start with all of us wanting and knowing the truth. Are we ready for the truth? Idk if I can honestly say we all are. But it's been how many years of war and lies? Going all the way back to the first gulf war for me. That was what 91, and we're in 2014! And look at us as a nation, same old song and dance. And funny thing, almost the SAME fucken players.

    A lot of you on the train are critical thinkers, that I know for fact. A lot of you have independent thoughts and are able to distinguish the difference between truths and propaganda. And I appreciate reading all of your thought out posts. But some on here (most of you can tell who's who) are just so fucken lost and blind. But here's the thing, I think the ones who (I believe to be lost) dnt want to know and dnt honestly care to know the truth. And that's the sad thing. My history high school teacher tried to teach his class to be critical thinkers in life. I want to thank you mr Hayes for indoctrinating that into me.

    I think maybe it's time for me to get off on the next station stop, maybe give this place and my head a break.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Hugh Freaking Dillon said:

    and what deals are you referring to? and what rules of these deals have these groups gone back on?

    He's just making it up as he goes. Whatever sounds good. He gets his knowledge of the World from car bumper-stickers.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2014
    njnancy said:

    We did not invade Afghanistan; we were there to kill the scumbags who turned lower Manhattan into a parking lot, attacked the Pentagon and killed innocent citizens in those buildings and areas and on 4 planes. That was a declaration of war.

    It wasn't a declaration of war. It was a terrorist attack. And the Taliban offered to hand Bin Laden over to the U.S and the U.S refused. Now why would they do that? Because they had another agenda, that's why.
    njnancy said:

    So, whenever there is a terrorist attack, it is America's fault...America sucks so we should all die.

    You can quit with the straw man melodramatics.
    njnancy said:

    As far as 'my foreign policy', it caused a bunch of people who take the Quran and completely misinterpret it for their extremist positions to declare war on WESTERN SOCIETY.

    It wasn't WESTERN SOCIETY that declared war on Iraq in 1991, and it's not WESTERN SOCIETY that's been bankrolling Israel's ethnic cleansing and land-grab for the past 45 years, to name just two examples.

    njnancy said:

    Did they hate that we went into Iraq during the first Gulf War - infidels on their land - yes. We were asked by Kuwait to help from being overthrown. So we did that and came home.

    Except it wasn't as simple as that. And you also neglect to mention the subsequent ten years of illegal sanctions and daily bombing raids on that country.

    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2014
    callen said:

    Hey BB. Like to see some backup on bush giving saddam go ahead on Kuwait.

    All about the control of oil/$$$$.

    http://goldenageofgaia.com/2011/04/26/wikileaks-american-ambassador-to-iraq-gave-saddam-green-light-to-invade-kuwait/

    Representative Ron Paul reveals that American ambassador to Iraq April Glassby had a conversation with Saddam Hussein one week before he invaded Kuwait and gave the green light to his plans. The information is contained in a cable recently released by Wikileaks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbyiVpLNZ3A

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/08/wikiileaks_april_glaspie_and_saddam_hussein
    In a now famous interview with the Iraqi leader, U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie told Saddam, ‘[W]e have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.' The U.S. State Department had earlier told Saddam that Washington had ‘no special defense or security commitments to Kuwait.' The United States may not have intended to give Iraq a green light, but that is effectively what it did."


    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11376.htm
    "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasise the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America." - US Ambassador Glaspie

    On July 31, 1990, two days before the Iraqi invasion [of Kuwait], John Kelly, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, testified to Congress that the "United States has no commitment to defend Kuwait and the US has no intention of defending Kuwait if it is attacked by Iraq."
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Just want to give kudos to BB and njnancy for their passion and respect for each other here, not to mention eloquence in the heat of the moment; I believe it all comes from a decent place.

    Now back to our regular programming.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2014
    Last-12-Exit said:


    I agree that we shouldn't have been in Iraq in the first place. And I'm sure you would agree that you learn from your past mistakes.

    Except it wasn't a mistake. It was deliberate. 'Mistake' is now a favourite word of politicians who think they can justify and excuse their crimes.
    Here's the dictionary definition of the word:

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mistake?s=t
    noun
    1.
    an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.
    2.
    a misunderstanding or misconception.
    4.
    to understand, interpret, or evaluate wrongly; misunderstand; misinterpret.
    5.
    to be in error.

    So you see, that the word is completely inappropriate when discussing the invasion of a sovereign nation and the murder of over 1 million people. If the word 'mistake' had been used in the defence of those on trial at Nuremberg, it would have generated mostly ridicule, some laughter, and a great deal of disgust. Yet in the year 2014 it passes without so much as anyone batting an eyelid.
    Welcome to the 21st Century!

  • The Waiting Trophy Man
    The Waiting Trophy Man Niagara region, Ontario, Canada Posts: 12,158
    ^^^You're absolutely right Byrnzie. I called it a mistake in an earlier post and it wasn't a mistake at all. Thanks for setting it straight.
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,188
    anybody read cheney's op ed today??

    i read most of it, through tears of laughter.

    essentially, what cheney's trying to do is the exact same thing as this scenario...

    a group of guys goes and beats up a man with pipes and weapons. the man is beaten so badly he in a coma for 5 years. THEN, when the man dies after 5 years of being in a coma, the group who beat the victim comes out and blames the doctor for the death.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • njnancy
    njnancy Posts: 5,096
    edited June 2014
    Byrnzie said:

    njnancy said:

    We did not invade Afghanistan; we were there to kill the scumbags who turned lower Manhattan into a parking lot, attacked the Pentagon and killed innocent citizens in those buildings and areas and on 4 planes. That was a declaration of war.

    It wasn't a declaration of war. It was a terrorist attack. And the Taliban offered to hand Bin Laden over to the U.S and the U.S refused. Now why would they do that? Because they had another agenda, that's why.

    you're nitpicking.
    njnancy said:

    So, whenever there is a terrorist attack, it is America's fault...America sucks so we should all die.

    You can quit with the straw man melodramatics.

    That is just so insulting that I no longer can respect any of your prior posts which i read with an open-mind. Do not tell me to quit giving my opinion. And do not call me a straw 'person'. That's really the most important thing you had to say about anything I posted? you can take a sentence or two out of anyone's post and play with it as you want, but i am trying to respect people here. I cannot do that when someone attempts to patronize me.
    njnancy said:

    As far as 'my foreign policy', it caused a bunch of people who take the Quran and completely misinterpret it for their extremist positions to declare war on WESTERN SOCIETY.

    It wasn't WESTERN SOCIETY that declared war on Iraq in 1991, and it's not WESTERN SOCIETY that's been bankrolling Israel's ethnic cleansing and land-grab for the past 45 years, to name just two examples.

    yeah, okay, COMPLETELY taken out of context and i did not mention Israel once.
    njnancy said:

    Did they hate that we went into Iraq during the first Gulf War - infidels on their land - yes. We were asked by Kuwait to help from being overthrown. So we did that and came home.

    Except it wasn't as simple as that. And you also neglect to mention the subsequent ten years of illegal sanctions and daily bombing raids on that country.

    i probably didn't mention a shitload of stuff, but it was my post - not yours. i also didn't mention that it's 90 degrees out. I didn't neglect to mention it; it wasn't part of what i had to say. I've read a lot of your stuff in the political threads. I cannot respond to what you say because it is self serving. I don't need a copy editor. Respect others as you would want to be respected. Or don't - I can't make anyone in this damn world do a damn thing; except for me.
    Post edited by njnancy on

Categories