OPEN LETTER TO THE 10 CLUB & TIM BIERMAN TO CHANGE GA LINE

Evensteven · November 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

PJ88 wrote:

If you have waited all day and someone shows up and says they belong in front of you because of some list, tell them to take their list and shove it up their ass. Take a walk. What the hell are they going to do about it? Call the list police? The problem is that people allow others to do that (cut/walk up) to them. The whole idea of a list is so foolish. If you want in early than you wait. Period.

That's what I was thinking too. Why would anyone just stand there and let this happen to them?? If someone cut in front of me in a line I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. There is no way i'd let it happen. If they want to step into line they can do it behind me if there are any push overs back there who will let them.

But clearly they were 7,8, 15, 61 and lastly 42. They had the sharpie to prove it.

1. Some people didn't know what was going on.
2. Some people didn't care and didn't want to start shit.

PJ_Soul · November 2013

Evensteven wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

PJ88 wrote:

If you have waited all day and someone shows up and says they belong in front of you because of some list, tell them to take their list and shove it up their ass. Take a walk. What the hell are they going to do about it? Call the list police? The problem is that people allow others to do that (cut/walk up) to them. The whole idea of a list is so foolish. If you want in early than you wait. Period.

That's what I was thinking too. Why would anyone just stand there and let this happen to them?? If someone cut in front of me in a line I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. There is no way i'd let it happen. If they want to step into line they can do it behind me if there are any push overs back there who will let them.

But clearly they were 7,8, 15, 61 and lastly 42. They had the sharpie to prove it.

1. Some people didn't know what was going on.
2. Some people didn't care and didn't want to start shit.

Yeah, god save me from people who "don't want to start shit". It's the motto of the wimpy masses and what allows injustice to thrive (sorry for using such dramatic terms, but seriohsly, it's true

). People need to stand up for themselves instead of just standing there and taking it up the ass and then running to message boards after the fact and complaining about how it was just so unfair.

Different story if they really don't know it's happening, but that kind of takes a special sort of cluelessness, doesn't it?? If i'm in a line all day long i'm paying attention to who is in front of me and certainly aware if anyone cuts in.

Evensteven · November 2013

[

But clearly they were 7,8, 15, 61 and lastly 42. They had the sharpie to prove it.

1. Some people didn't know what was going on.
2. Some people didn't care and didn't want to start shit.[/quote]
Yeah, god save me from people who "don't want to start shit". It's the motto of the wimpy masses and what allows injustice to thrive (sorry for using such dramatic terms, but seriohsly, it's true

). People need to stand up for themselves instead of just standing there and taking it up the ass and then running to message boards after the fact and complaining about how it was just so unfair.

Different story if they really don't know it's happening, but that kind of takes a special sort of cluelessness, doesn't it?? If i'm in a line all day long i'm paying attention to who is in front of me and certainly aware if anyone cuts in.[/quote]

To be honest it wasn't really a line. Just groups of people on the stairs. Once there was activity from the venue people got more in line. When the 42 chick came up and tried to get by my wife she was like "excuse me I'm 42" and my wife was like "so what I'm in line here". The girl just back tracked and went around the side.

I'll go with you next show.

People tried getting by with their numbers, we said so what, so they just went around a different way. I personally wasn't going to start a fight before something I was about to enjoy so much. But we did seem like a bunch of sheep. The whole thing is a major turn off.

Get_Right · November 2013

Its really simple to me. If you are not online, you are not online.
No lists, no saving spots, none of that BS.

You want the rail you wait.

Either that or give out wristbands like they used to do when people slept out for tickets.

Make it even more interesting by doing a lottery and randomly call out the numbers on the wristbands for early entry.

Then there is no stampede.

But I agree that there should be some oversight to the process, either by the venue or the 10c.

DSTURNERJR · November 2013

Seems to me like this thread is showcasing the main problem in this country....everyone's sense of entitlement. I don't care if you were in the Mother Love Bone fan club. If I get there before you, and are willing to put in more time than you on that day, I'm going to be closer to the rail. Your seniority doesn't entitle you to anything besides better lower bowl seats. GA is GA. And thank God it's back, hopefully to stay. I think it's been a major spark plug on this tour so far as far as the overall crowd vibe.

PJ_Soul · November 2013

What this topic ultimately shows me is that people worry WAY too much about where they are in a tiny GA pit.

callen · November 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

What this topic ultimately shows me is that people worry WAY too much about where they are in a tiny GA pit.

If your 4'8" the rail is the only way to see so if someone of this stature waits all freakin day to ensure they are up front and some self entitled douche bag "senior know everyone PJ dips" cut in line it is a major deal. I've seen this first hand. But as what was posted above...humans...self entitled and inconsiderate. Typical herd behaviour.

Mamasan Bren · November 2013

pdalowsky wrote:

Mamasan Bren wrote:

I just think the list shouldn't be used. Nor should people have to mark numbers on their hands. If it's not run by the 10 Club or the venue, then I don't think any fan(s) has any such authority to implement it. At least until the end of Leg 2, fans are going to arrive early to line up to earn a great GA spot, there's no doubt about it. People that use the list to get out of truly waiting aren't acting with integrity. I agree that you should be able to leave for short times to use the bathroom, get food or drinks, get the tickets, etc. These breaks from the line really shouldn't last much longer than 10-15 minutes in my opinion. If you're off at the pre-party, or you're off showering at your hotel or any such absence from the line that lasts longer than 15 minutes and isn't really a necessity in nature, then in my eyes that is a bit abusive. I think it is worthy to see PJ up close whether it's on the rail or close to it. I understand why fans want to enjoy this experience and I have been able to do it a bunch of times myself. If you look at other famous groups, musicians, artists, the prices of tickets to experience them that close are sometimes in the thousands of dollars, or at least several hundreds for face value even. I'm sure the majority of fans are actually being great in line and having each other's backs. The fans that make the waiting the best it can be are of the right spirit. But let's face it: waiting all day on cement sidewalks sucks and isn't the easiest. That is why some will try to get out of it by claiming their numbered spot on the list. Fans should just show up, form the line, and be respectful about the process rather than being made to adhere to some list run by the earliest arriving fans.

So to be clear , if people don't disappear then everything is good ?

You'd have no problem ?

And SuMay is right you haven't done such a show since 07?

And your going to rely on everything you heard being true about people showering etc?

Wow. Shaky foundations

So a few want ten club to organize this ? You really think they have time on show day to get a bunch of fans into number order? When this system works well, what's the point. Do you want Tenclub to start organizing the pre parties too ? You know so everyone gets official word? No people know fine well about both - and I fail to believe that anyone turning up between 9-12noon to get a spot doesn't know of the list. We came equipped with social skills and that tends to help working things out.

Sure Tenclub could mention it in their email, but why would they ? It wouldn't change a thing. Did I read right that one of the 'complainers' here arrived a whole 40 minutes before doors opened and would have done things differently if the list was known to him ? Is that for real?

I keep seeing 'no one has the authority' to do this... Blah blah, you really think there needs to be a person from Tenclub or a fan that has to have a special Tenclub badge to start off something so obviously common sense ? People for years and years and years have managed to organize themselves .... Now all of a sudden the only way this can happen is by order of the leadership.

(No, I've done a few shows since '07, 2 in LA in '09, SD '09. Clev/2MSG in '10, Missoula, London, Wrigley)

So there is proof. Others can testify to having seen it happen. All in all it's really not that big of a deal. I don't find the discussion about the use of the list being unfair to be fear-mongering or paranoia. Not sure how that gets equated? (laughable) I really can't see someone reading this thread and the others and then getting over-anxiety the day of. That's hogwash. It's just that it is happening and it's not right. A general fan doesn't have the right to set this up and make it law of the day. Fans have posted in here that they see the abuse of the list happening. Again I feel that the huge majority are doing it right, and having a fun day making the most out of the waiting. It's true, it's really only a small number that are trying to use the list to get out of waiting all day. I just think it shouldn't occur because it's not right and pushes some in the line back when the number-hand returners return.

PJ_Soul · November 2013

^^^ I have seen a number of people express concern and feelings of stress about GA after reading these threads. So it's not hogwash. These threads have literally made some people decide against GA even though they wanted it. I've seen them post about it.

If it's not a big deal and a very small handful of people doing it, then why keep talking about it and starting a petition about it? If someone cuts ahead of you in line tell them you're not agreeing to that and that they can try cutting in behind you, but sorry, they're not getting in ahead of where you've been waiting all day. Just stand up for yourself.

Evensteven · November 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

^^^ I have seen a number of people express concern and feelings of stress about GA after reading these threads. So it's not hogwash. These threads have literally made some people decide against GA even though they wanted it. I've seen them post about it.

The easiest thing is not doing the list at all. Enjoy the day.

I found in Charlottesville if I had gotten there 1 hr later my place in the pit would have been basically the same. At Charlotted we didn't wait in line...visited with friends at the hotel. Headed over when the doors opened and my wife got rail on the right side. Both Eddie and Mike stood in front of her.

PJ_Soul · November 2013

Evensteven wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

^^^ I have seen a number of people express concern and feelings of stress about GA after reading these threads. So it's not hogwash. These threads have literally made some people decide against GA even though they wanted it. I've seen them post about it.

The easiest thing is not doing the list at all. Enjoy the day.

I found in Charlottesville if I had gotten there 1 hr later my place in the pit would have been basically the same. At Charlotted we didn't wait in line...visited with friends at the hotel. Headed over when the doors opened and my wife got rail on the right side. Both Eddie and Mike stood in front of her.

The easiest thing is definitely not waiting in line at all. I wouldn't do it. I showed up maybe 20 minutes before doors in Missoula, literally meandered to the pit and stopping for water, and was seven deep in front of Mike. I will be doing the same in Vancouver. Waiting in line just to be a few feet closer seems like an enormous waste of time and energy, especially if you fear being bullied by list people. But hey, that's just me.... I just hope that those who do wait at least stand up for themselves instead of just standing back and snivelling about line-cutters. I wouldn't let some cut in front of me in line at a bus stop, let alone a GA line up.

Bant · November 2013

pdalowsky wrote:

Bant wrote:

pdalowsky wrote:

Did I read right that one of the 'complainers' here arrived a whole 40 minutes before doors opened and would have done things differently if the list was known to him ? Is that for real?

Yes you read that right, I probably would have showed up earlier if I was aware my unreserved general admission ticket could magically be turned into a reserved seat according to some unofficial list.
:fp:

are you for real?

If you had turned up earlier you would have been closer, because you'd have been closer to the front of the line with or without a list.

Seems you jumped on the gravy train here despite not having any experience of anyone on your show cheating the line. Did you really expect to turn up 40 minutes before opening and have a shot at the rail?

Are you for real? Why is this so hard for you to understand?

No, I just understand the definition of General Admission and I don't think some unofficial list keeper should be allowed to assign seats because people showed up and put their name on a list.

Do you people on this list think this gives you some kind of rights after the doors open? Are we really all supposed to line up single file before we all enter the GA area and have Listler direct everyone to their position.

The whole idea of the list is pathetically ridiculous and goes against the whole idea of General admission. There is nothing anyone can say to justify its use, all you can do is ridicule those who criticize its use in its current form.

Like I said before, I really don't care that much. Its just so obvious that it's flawed in MANY ways, which is why I chimed in. Not to jump on some gravy train. My experience was ignorance of the list. Somehow this doesn't classify the list as elitist?

If you ever come up with a logical or rational explanation for why every 10 Club GA ticket holder shouldn't be notified of this process prior to arriving at the venue, let me know.

Until then, carry on. :corn:

Evensteven · November 2013

The European faction will argue it keeps civility to the queuing. What's not civil is not everyone in the line knows about it so it appears that people are cutting when really they are just using a bogus line/numbering system.

If someone is in line all day - people will let them go piss and get back in line. If there is a short person or kid that can get a better view in front if me and they don't obstruct my view - no problem.

I wish this poorly conceived idea would have stayed over there. The real flaw is the assumption that since it was posted on the message board everyone at the show or in line knows about it. My brother in law loves pearl jam. He is a ten club member. He has been to many shows. He has never been on this board.

dimitrispearljam · November 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

^^^ I have seen a number of people express concern and feelings of stress about GA after reading these threads. So it's not hogwash. These threads have literally made some people decide against GA even though they wanted it. I've seen them post about it.

If it's not a big deal and a very small handful of people doing it, then why keep talking about it and starting a petition about it? If someone cuts ahead of you in line tell them you're not agreeing to that and that they can try cutting in behind you, but sorry, they're not getting in ahead of where you've been waiting all day. Just stand up for yourself.

In the forum daily comes like 1% of 10c members
As u know me and u visiting the main facebook pj fans pages amd there is a better sample how smooth all worked and the 'problems"is not even worth the time to mention them..

TBird27 · November 2013

Sucks to see so many people stressing over this. GA is f'n awesome whether your first or last in line. Had GA in Dallas, enjoyed my day in the city, went to the Wishlist party and arrived in line at about 5:50. I was the last person let in the door when they opened up for GA and was 4 rows back all night in front of Mike...about 5 yards off the rail (if that) and had the best PJ experience of my life.

Evensteven · November 2013

If people aren't using it to hold their place and go do other things - which I saw and experienced a lot of - then why need the list at all? If you are the first 10 people in line and you waited all day like everyone says they are doing then you should be the first 10 through the door and the first 10 on the floor and the first 10 on the rail. So how does the list help that? The if you're 100 and not on the rail what is the order? Some prefer to stand in front of ED, others Mike, others Stone. So how does it work after the rail?

Evensteven · November 2013

TBird27 wrote:

Sucks to see so many people stressing over this. GA is f'n awesome whether your first or last in line. Had GA in Dallas, enjoyed my day in the city, went to the Wishlist party and arrived in line at about 5:50. I was the last person let in the door when they opened up for GA and was 4 rows back all night in front of Mike...about 5 yards off the rail (if that) and had the best PJ experience of my life.

I hope no one is stressing. It's just the line/list concept is majorly flawed.
The best thing about GA was it was basically half full so plenty of room.

Bant · November 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

dont waste your time explain how community works,and how friends and fans help eachother..some people thinks if u go to college,u are white and rich is the only way to go..well its not..

Yeah, don't waste your time giving everyone who holds GA tickets the same knowledge of the unofficial list and who the list keeper is.

That wouldn't make any sense.

:fp:

PJ_Soul wrote:

This is just another one of those GA fear mongering threads that needlessly stress out people who will be experiencing GA at a PJ show for the first time.

There is an easy way to release this stress. For the 10 Club to make GA ticket holders aware of this unofficial process.

Why don't you support this?

Evensteven · November 2013

Bant wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

dont waste your time explain how community works,and how friends and fans help eachother..some people thinks if u go to college,u are white and rich is the only way to go..well its not..

Yeah, don't waste your time giving everyone who holds GA tickets the same knowledge of the unofficial list and who the list keeper is.

That wouldn't make any sense.

:fp:

PJ_Soul wrote:

This is just another one of those GA fear mongering threads that needlessly stress out people who will be experiencing GA at a PJ show for the first time.

There is an easy way to release this stress. For the 10 Club to make GA ticket holders aware of this unofficial process.

Why don't you support this?

I think dimi was actually referring to comments about someone being in the GA pit multiple times.

Evensteven · November 2013

What's to stop someone from putting a #13 on their hand then finding where on the rail the 20's are, get up there and be like "I'm 13 can I grab some rail?". How would they know?

OPEN LETTER TO THE 10 CLUB & TIM BIERMAN TO CHANGE GA LINE

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OPEN LETTER TO THE 10 CLUB &amp; TIM BIERMAN TO CHANGE GA LINE

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OPEN LETTER TO THE 10 CLUB & TIM BIERMAN TO CHANGE GA LINE