OPEN LETTER TO THE 10 CLUB & TIM BIERMAN TO CHANGE GA LINE

Mamasan Bren

Dear Tim and the 10 Club-

Tim, perhaps you'll recall a long ago conversation I had with you at PJ's Vegas show at the MGM Grand back in '03. As you know, that Riot Act tour allowed fans to better their seat locations based on seniority in ticketed blocks. The earlier you arrived to get your ticket from your seniority block, the better your ticket location would be (most of the time). I arrived super early in the morning the day of that show and waited the whole day. I was one of maybe five people there. Later that day, some other fans returned with a list of names and all cut in front of me based on its supposed authority. There ended up being more than 50 people in front of me by the time it was all said and done. I spoke to you about this and remember you being appalled. You said it was wrong and shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
Flash forward 10 years to today's current Lightning Bolt tour. The decision has been made to return to GA shows. I for one think that is the way that PJ was always meant to be seen, though being anywhere in the building with them is awesome. I like art. I like seeing art museums and exploring all that a city has to offer. Through 10 Club promotions, the club encourages this experience too as PJ tours in awesome cities around the world. I like seeing PJ up close. I can't have both. If I'm an honest person who is made to wait in a GA line all day to see them up close, I unfortunately can't also spend the day seeing a city, and getting to fraternize with other fans. I'd like to shop on South St. in Philly. I'd like to see the sights of NYC, the Experience Music project and Public Market in Seattle, etc. I believe this to be wrong. I know the band and the club are fans of the Boss. Bruce has a system that eliminates the need for fans to waste their whole day in order to see the show up close. U2 also has a system that eliminates it. What we have now is unauthorized fans showing up early to run their own system with creating a list and using magic markers on hands to enforce it. You have some honest fans that truly wait all day. But then you have other fans that use the list to be away from the line for long periods of times. I feel that one should wait to earn what's worth being earned and not be out of line for long periods of times because they once were there and put their name on some list. Enforcing the fairness of this is near impossible. The true fans who are honest with their waiting shouldn't have to try to enforce policing of abusers.
I appeal to you to look into changing this for future tours. I have always been impressed with the intelligence and caring nature that the club handles its many interactions with its fans. I think the fans deserve to have a system in place that allows them to enjoy their day exploring a city rather than sitting on a sidewalk all day.

Sincerely yours,
~Bren 140xxx

mookeywrench

Anyone wanna summarize?

BF89905

Well said, OP.

joberschlake

The line and the list are ridiculous. Get over it. Why can't you be happy with getting seats as good as you can get? Is the show ruined for you if you're 7 feet from the stage instead of 3?

noa.who

joberschlake wrote:

The line and the list are ridiculous. Get over it. Why can't you be happy with getting seats as good as you can get? Is the show ruined for you if you're 7 feet from the stage instead of 3?

I'm 5'3, and for GA I need to be very close to the rail or I won't be able to see anything and I'm willing to stand in line all day long for that. I think OP did a great job explaining the situation. There should be a Ten Club GA policy if they want to do it right, otherwise it will always be a mess (although in Europe it tends to work pretty well).

63schoefflin

If you want to be against the rail you need to wait in line like everyone else for any concert, band, release ever. This idea of getting there and leaving is an absolute joke and for anyone to endorse this is insane. I'm sorry.....this is the most ass backwards idea I have ever heard in my life. If you get there at 6am, then you need to stay there or lose your spot (save for a bathroom break). Bring food, games, whatever. But the fact that anyone would let a person leave for hours and hours on end is insane and I am not sure how this is allowed to happen.

scratched vinyl

I'm not sure if I fully follow. Obviously to earn the front of the line one should have to show up early and stick it out all day, and anyone breaking this should lose their spot.
What does Bruce do to counter this? Did I miss that? I like the post, just not sure what the alternative is...

halv

scratched vinyl wrote:

I'm not sure if I fully follow. Obviously to earn the front of the line one should have to show up early and stick it out all day, and anyone breaking this should lose their spot.
What does Bruce do to counter this? Did I miss that? I like the post, just not sure what the alternative is...

Off topic - Scratched Vinyl, I love your pic! Propagandhi rules!

On topic - I'd love to see this fixed to. I have GA show coming up soon.

Zod

Most shows I go to the GA line is just a line.. and venue lets people in.

Springsteen's is somewhat unique. The whole floor is GA but there's seperated front section (imagine a current pj show, but outside the current GA pit there's more GA). All the tickets are GA. You basically show up in the afternoon and get a number. You can then spend the afternoon having a few cold ones. You come back around 5pm, they draw a number, then they start letting people in with that number. IE if they pull 350, 350 is #1 goes in first until they get to the highest number issued, then go back to #1 and work their way up.

The system isn't mean to get people on the rail. It's mean to get people in the front part of the pit. Since the whole floor is GA is how they determine who gets in the front section.

I've seen u2 do something similar but not nearly as organized. Sometimes it's first come first serve. The vertigo tour did it by random wins when your GA ticket was scanner.

Either way its letting people into the front section, not guaranteeing them rail.

Since you've already got into the GA section of the PJ it seems silly to need similar systems.

I dunno... I'd like to think if you waited all day you'd get in. The venues all operate differently. Some have multiple access to get on the floor.

It seems like a waste of man power to have PJ management organize the lineup just to enforce some rules so 50 people can be on the rail... lol...

edit: I just read the other thread that talked about a few fans running their own numbering system. So people wait all day only get budge in line by people who say they reserved a number. It never ceases to amaze me how dickish people can be to each other. I guess maybe PJ does need to do a Bruce type system. Still seems sill though... its all for rail which has room for 50 people.... not like the other bands where its several thousand people trying to get in a pit that has room for 300 to 1000 people.

on2legs

So now you want a general admission show with reserved spots? Do you understand the concept of GA? There are no reserved spots so you can wander around the city and then magically show up at the last minute to claim your rightful spot in front of Eddie. That's not what GA is... You're describing reserved seating. You can't have it both ways.

Luckytwn1

Zod wrote:

Most shows I go to the GA line is just a line.. and venue lets people in.

Springsteen's is somewhat unique. The whole floor is GA but there's seperated front section (imagine a current pj show, but outside the current GA pit there's more GA). All the tickets are GA. You basically show up in the afternoon and get a number. You can then spend the afternoon having a few cold ones. You come back around 5pm, they draw a number, then they start letting people in with that number. IE if they pull 350, 350 is #1 goes in first until they get to the highest number issued, then go back to #1 and work their way up.

The system isn't mean to get people on the rail. It's mean to get people in the front part of the pit. Since the whole floor is GA is how they determine who gets in the front section.

I've seen u2 do something similar but not nearly as organized. Sometimes it's first come first serve. The vertigo tour did it by random wins when your GA ticket was scanner.

Either way its letting people into the front section, not guaranteeing them rail.

Since you've already got into the GA section of the PJ it seems silly to need similar systems.

I dunno... I'd like to think if you waited all day you'd get in. The venues all operate differently. Some have multiple access to get on the floor.

It seems like a waste of man power to have PJ management organize the lineup just to enforce some rules so 50 people can be on the rail... lol...

edit: I just read the other thread that talked about a few fans running their own numbering system. So people wait all day only get budge in line by people who say they reserved a number. It never ceases to amaze me how dickish people can be to each other. I guess maybe PJ does need to do a Bruce type system. Still seems sill though... its all for rail which has room for 50 people.... not like the other bands where its several thousand people trying to get in a pit that has room for 300 to 1000 people.

This is not fully correct as it relates to Bruce. I've seen him over 200 times and I've even helped run lists on occasion. Prior to Bruce going to the lottery, there were always fan run lists that allowed people to leave for intervals and have to check in at designated times. They started using the lottery regularly because Springsteen fans are very devoted and venues in the US were freaking out about fans with lists coordinating the line for 2-3 days. And even now in Europe that is the way the Springsteen system works and Bruce's people coordinate with the list holders. I saw a show in Germany this past summer and the list started the night before. There were check-ins at midnight and 6 AM. I showed up at around 11 AM and was given a number and there were check-ins and not until 4 PM did I have to get in line permanently. In some European cities this past summer, lists started up to a week before the show with regular check-ins for that period (this is totally insane IMO and the Springsteen org should not allow it).

So you can say that you don't like the use of the list but it goes on for Bruce regularly still in Europe and I lists were also kept on U2360, which was first come, first serve for the pit.

pdalowsky

Holy shit. Another thread on this ?

This subject is so overplayed. It's boring at this stage.

Whilst the discussion is necessary - there was a thread 'the line and list' for this to be debated?

Open letter? Why here, send it to Tenclub if its for them

I bet they can't believe that a group of adults carry on like this.

on2legs

pdalowsky wrote:

Holy shit. Another thread on this ?

This subject is so overplayed. It's boring at this stage.

Whilst the discussion is necessary - there was a thread 'the line and list' for this to be debated?

Open letter? Why here, send it to Tenclub if its for them

I bet they can't believe that a group of adults carry on like this.

Yes. Yes. Yes. ^^^^^^^^ :clap:

Eraserhead

An non-issue. Doors open at 6:30. At all the shows I went to on the East Coast, there were people still coming into GA at 7:15 who were no more than 4 or 5 rows back.

And even if you were at the back of GA, you'd stil have a great view. And a rail to rest your back on too.

joberschlake

pdalowsky wrote:

I bet they can't believe that a group of adults carry on like this.

Agreed. I'm sure they think that of about 99.9% of the completely ridiculous dumb threads that get started on this site.

Bentleyspop

scratched vinyl wrote:

I'm not sure if I fully follow. Obviously to earn the front of the line one should have to show up early and stick it out all day, and anyone breaking this should lose their spot.
What does Bruce do to counter this? Did I miss that? I like the post, just not sure what the alternative is...

Springsteen runs a lottery for shows in the States and the occasional European show.

During a 4-5 hour window, usually 12:30- 4:30 you can come to the arena and get a numbered wristband. You must be with whomever you are going to the show.

This is run by Springsteen tour staff. Not by fans or venue employees.

You can leave but must be back for the lottery at 5:30 or so.
Then a random number is selected and the pit line starts with that number.

For example. ... If number 242 is pulled then that person is first and the next 500 or so people get in the pit. If your number is before 242 or after 742 you don't get in the pit. However if your are 242 and you are there with 240 and 241 they get in as well.
This goes for whomever is with 742 as well.

Then you line up in order and when doors open or just before the pit line is escorted into the arena and on to the floor in an orderly fashion. No running, pushing, shoving, or people getting to the floor from any other doors.

No need to arrive at 6 a.m. and no need to be their all day.
I've been lucky and been in the pit for every Springsteen show that I've had g.a. tickets.

This was set up in reaction to fan run lines that were getting out of control

joberschlake

That would be the absolute worst thing to happen to GA. How about just getting there when you get there, going into the venue, and having a great time standing wherever you stand?!

This ridiculous thread and the others make it sound like the show is ruined for you if you can't be first row. If that's the case, please don't go to the shows.

boyo79

joberschlake wrote:

That would be the absolute worst thing to happen to GA. How about just getting there when you get there, going into the venue, and having a great time standing wherever you stand?!

This ridiculous thread and the others make it sound like the show is ruined for you if you can't be first row. If that's the case, please don't go to the shows.

It's all about getting a pick or tambourine man

Evensteven

This self appointed GA line/list is a joke. There are some actual hardcore PJ that don't spend a lot of time on this board and have no clue about this line system. So it's one thing if 10C sent out an email or there was an official announcement so ALL knew about it. But they don't. This is a system a few know about. So essentially we're back to seeing the same people at the front for every show. It's makes some fans come across as entitled elitist...those that control the information. It's really off putting and I hope it goes away next tour.

tubes10s

why would anyone follow or obey this "list" or "notebook" or whatever it is? why not tell them where to stick it??

I mean... it's not anyone affiliated in any way with the band or the venue, right?

shortstack

wasn't tim the guy that called fan club members assholes?