Islamophobia

redrock · May 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

redrock wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

I still think they sheoul be sent back or turned around before they get here.

Godfather.

And how would one go about that, Godfather? Would all non US visitors have to declare their religion before entering the US with the 'undesirable' religions being turned back? Or is one looking at the muslims of middle eastern appearance? Or only certain nationalities? My husband is white and british. Should he be a muslim, would he be 'turned around'?

Or is it when you speak of muslims, you are speaking of 'arabs'?

And don't forget all the Indians who are Muslim.... My close Muslim friend is ethnically Indian, was born in and grew up in Fiji, and then immigrated to Thailand... although attended only American schools in the far East and went to university in Canada. Oh, and his parents are both UN ambassadors. Muslim ones. Where would he fall in as far as Godfather is concerned. :think:

And Indonesians, chinese, russians, from the balkans. Not to mention all the european countries.....

A faith crosses over country boundaries, races, etc.

Cosmo · May 2013

Let's put this into perspective...
Facts:
The vast majority of the people who commit terrorist acts, claim to be Muslim.
The vast majority of Ku Klux Klansmen claim Christianity as their religion.
...
Conclusions:
We can easily accept the fact that Not all Christians are Klansmen.
Why can't we accept the fact that all muslims are not terrorists?

Godfather. · May 2013

Cosmo wrote:

Let's put this into perspective...
Facts:
The vast majority of the people who commit terrorist acts, claim to be Muslim.
The vast majority of Ku Klux Klansmen claim Christianity as their religion.
...
Conclusions:
We can easily accept the fact that Not all Christians are Klansmen.
Why can't we accept the fact that all muslims are not terrorists?

because I'm bull headed and pissed off

about all the terrorest acts honor killing's etc. being done by muslim people and now I don't trust any of them...yeah yeah I know it's not politicaly correct but neither is a muslim terrorest or a muslim father/husband that kills out of some misguided honer .
I not asking anybody to follow my opinion or even agree with me,right now this is how I feel about the whole mess.

Godfather.

PJ_Soul · May 2013

Cosmo wrote:

Let's put this into perspective...
Facts:
The vast majority of the people who commit terrorist acts, claim to be Muslim.
The vast majority of Ku Klux Klansmen claim Christianity as their religion.
...
Conclusions:
We can easily accept the fact that Not all Christians are Klansmen.
Why can't we accept the fact that all muslims are not terrorists?

I completely agree with the sentiment behind your statement Cosmo.... although I don't think that the KKK and Islamic extremists can be compared at all.

Cosmo · May 2013

Godfather. wrote:

because I'm bull headed and pissed off about all the terrorest acts honor killing's etc. being done by muslim people and now I don't trust any of them...yeah yeah I know it's not politicaly correct but neither is a muslim terrorest or a muslim father/husband that kills out of some misguided honer .
I not asking anybody to follow my opinion or even agree with me,right now this is how I feel about the whole mess.

Godfather.

...
That's cool. You are admitting to being prejudice. My take is, there is nothing wrong with being prejudiced towards an entire group of people as long as you are up front and take ownership of it.
Just don't pretend to be a good person or tell us what a good Christian you are or about your virtuous nature towards people. You are in the same class as the Rev. Phelps Westboro Church clan with the only difference being, they hate Fags, you hate Muslims. To me, I really don't care who you hate... just own up to your hatred.

Cosmo · May 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Let's put this into perspective...
Facts:
The vast majority of the people who commit terrorist acts, claim to be Muslim.
The vast majority of Ku Klux Klansmen claim Christianity as their religion.
...
Conclusions:
We can easily accept the fact that Not all Christians are Klansmen.
Why can't we accept the fact that all muslims are not terrorists?

I completely agree with the sentiment behind your statement Cosmo.... although I don't think that the KKK and Islamic extremists can be compared at all.

...
My logic being...
Terrorist groups (such as al Qaeda) are to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity.
...
or... Most al Qaeda are Muslim and most Klansmen are Chrisitans.
...
Both groups are radical militant wings that twist holy scripture as justification for violent means.

PJ_Soul · May 2013

Cosmo wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Let's put this into perspective...
Facts:
The vast majority of the people who commit terrorist acts, claim to be Muslim.
The vast majority of Ku Klux Klansmen claim Christianity as their religion.
...
Conclusions:
We can easily accept the fact that Not all Christians are Klansmen.
Why can't we accept the fact that all muslims are not terrorists?

I completely agree with the sentiment behind your statement Cosmo.... although I don't think that the KKK and Islamic extremists can be compared at all.

...
My logic being...
Terrorist groups (such as al Qaeda) are to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity.
...
or... Most al Qaeda are Muslim and most Klansmen are Chrisitans.
...
Both groups are radical militant wings that twist holy scripture as justification for violent means.

Yeah, I understand that you are trying to use pure logic here.... But I just don't think it works (probably because there is nothing logical about either or those 2 groups or Godfather's stance

But also, the KKK isn't violently religious as a rule. Racism is their main focus, not religion. Yes they talk about white protestants, blah blah, but that isn't their focus. Their focus is more Nazi - a pure race. If that Protestant crap were true, they'd care if their members were Catholic or Atheist, and they don't as far as I know. That's not the case for radical Muslims... the numbers are completely different too.... the KKK is a minute minority. Radical Muslims are a relatively gigantic minority).

Cosmo · May 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Both groups are radical militant wings that twist holy scripture as justification for violent means.

Yeah, I understand that you are trying to use pure logic here.... But I just don't think it works (probably because there is nothing logical about either or those 2 groups or Godfather's stance ).

...
Basically, a person who thinks that because of the acts of a violent wing of a religion represents said religion... it should apply it to all religions.
The true measure would be to break the perceived connection between these extremist groups from the religions they claim to represent. Hold them accountable for what they are... criminals and racists, not Muslims or Christians.

PJ_Soul · May 2013

Cosmo wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Both groups are radical militant wings that twist holy scripture as justification for violent means.

Yeah, I understand that you are trying to use pure logic here.... But I just don't think it works (probably because there is nothing logical about either or those 2 groups or Godfather's stance ).

...
Basically, a person who thinks that because of the acts of a violent wing of a religion represents said religion... it should apply it to all religions.
The true measure would be to break the perceived connection between these extremist groups from the religions they claim to represent. Hold them accountable for what they are... criminals and racists, not Muslims or Christians.

I added to my post after you quoted it.... I don't believe that the KKK are mainly motivated by religion in reality.

Cosmo · May 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

I added to my post after you quoted it.... I don't believe that the KKK are mainly motivated by religion in reality.

..
But, how many times have you heard them quote the Bible to justify their point of view?
...
And true... they are not motivated by Christianity... they USE Christianity as a support in their world view. Bottom line, they know nothing of Christianity if they don't realize that Jesus was a Jew.

blueandwhite · May 2013

It's interesting that when a Muslim kills an American citizen it's an almost always considered an act of terrorism but when US forces kill countless civilians it's always labeled an act of war. We view it as an unfortunate product of combat in an uncivilized society rather than an unsolicited attack on somebody's family or friends.. We don't give a damn about these people and make sweeping generalizations labelling them as extremists or terrorists. Religion aside, is it any surprise that Al Qaeda has no shortage of willing combatants?

dimitrispearljam · May 2013

Cosmo wrote:

Let's put this into perspective...
Facts:
The vast majority of the people who commit terrorist acts, claim to be Muslim.
The vast majority of Ku Klux Klansmen claim Christianity as their religion.
...
Conclusions:
We can easily accept the fact that Not all Christians are Klansmen.
Why can't we accept the fact that all muslims are not terrorists?

this is correct...and here comes the controled media play their role that convince us that all muslims are carrying bomb vest ready to explode...and they doing a great job make people believe that i must tell you

what i know all this years is fanatics has 1st priority violence,even if its at sports fanatics

PJ_Soul · May 2013

blueandwhite wrote:

It's interesting that when a Muslim kills an American citizen it's an almost always considered an act of terrorism but when US forces kill countless civilians it's always labeled an act of war. We view it as an unfortunate product of combat in an uncivilized society rather than an unsolicited attack on somebody's family or friends.. We don't give a damn about these people and make sweeping generalizations labelling them as extremists or terrorists. Religion aside, is it any surprise that Al Qaeda has no shortage of willing combatants?

There is a clear difference between terrorism and military action taken by a government, and that difference is namely rooted in intent and motivation. I say that objectively.

dimitrispearljam · May 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

It's interesting that when a Muslim kills an American citizen it's an almost always considered an act of terrorism but when US forces kill countless civilians it's always labeled an act of war. We view it as an unfortunate product of combat in an uncivilized society rather than an unsolicited attack on somebody's family or friends.. We don't give a damn about these people and make sweeping generalizations labelling them as extremists or terrorists. Religion aside, is it any surprise that Al Qaeda has no shortage of willing combatants?

There is a clear difference between terrorism and military action taken by a government, and that difference is namely rooted in intent and motivation. I say that objectively.

we like to see and call it different..both actions leave behind pain,suffer,blood, dead people..
the victims,the one receive the attack, no matter which side ,they call the other side terrorists i must tell you..

Cosmo · May 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

It's interesting that when a Muslim kills an American citizen it's an almost always considered an act of terrorism but when US forces kill countless civilians it's always labeled an act of war. We view it as an unfortunate product of combat in an uncivilized society rather than an unsolicited attack on somebody's family or friends.. We don't give a damn about these people and make sweeping generalizations labelling them as extremists or terrorists. Religion aside, is it any surprise that Al Qaeda has no shortage of willing combatants?

There is a clear difference between terrorism and military action taken by a government, and that difference is namely rooted in intent and motivation. I say that objectively.

...
or... they are different tactics in the same war.
If al Qaeda had jets and laser guided missiles, they'd use them against us. But, they don't... so they improvise.
Let's say al Qaeda sends an operative to the U.S. to kill a U.S. Drone pilot. He blows himself up as he is standing next to the pilot in line at the Starbucks... killing him (the intended target).
Act of terrorism? Act of War? Are the other victims killed in the blast victims of terrorism... or collateral damage?
...
I'm not taking sides here... just looking for answers.

blueandwhite · May 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

It's interesting that when a Muslim kills an American citizen it's an almost always considered an act of terrorism but when US forces kill countless civilians it's always labeled an act of war. We view it as an unfortunate product of combat in an uncivilized society rather than an unsolicited attack on somebody's family or friends.. We don't give a damn about these people and make sweeping generalizations labelling them as extremists or terrorists. Religion aside, is it any surprise that Al Qaeda has no shortage of willing combatants?

There is a clear difference between terrorism and military action taken by a government, and that difference is namely rooted in intent and motivation. I say that objectively.

I have a hard time with that considering many wars are started out of pure self-interest. I say that objectively as well.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · May 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

There is a clear difference between terrorism and military action taken by a government, and that difference is namely rooted in intent and motivation. I say that objectively.

not the military action the US, British, and even the participating Canadian governments have taken over the course of the last decade and more. the west claims defense with nothing but offense against no clear target other than a geographical area. that's called terrorism.

Go Beavers · May 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's true... I wouldn't use the word vast, just because about 20 - 30% of the world's Muslim population can be considered extremist now, and that's actually a HUGE number.

Where do you get this number from?

Go Beavers · May 2013

George W. Bush uses his religion to justify and unjustifiable Iraq war where thousands were killed. Is he a religious extremist?

PJ_Soul · May 2013

blueandwhite wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

It's interesting that when a Muslim kills an American citizen it's an almost always considered an act of terrorism but when US forces kill countless civilians it's always labeled an act of war. We view it as an unfortunate product of combat in an uncivilized society rather than an unsolicited attack on somebody's family or friends.. We don't give a damn about these people and make sweeping generalizations labelling them as extremists or terrorists. Religion aside, is it any surprise that Al Qaeda has no shortage of willing combatants?

There is a clear difference between terrorism and military action taken by a government, and that difference is namely rooted in intent and motivation. I say that objectively.

I have a hard time with that considering many wars are started out of pure self-interest. I say that objectively as well.

Oh, of course. Self-interest wasn't the difference in intent and motivation that I was thinking of. I was more thinking of the fact that, assuming we're talking about the US's military actions here, the US military doesn't go out of its way to murder innocent civilians in order to make a statement and instill fear in a population in the hopes that that will destabilize the government or inspire retaliation that will in turn make others turn against them. Terrorists do. Yes, of course innocent civilians have died from US attacks, and people in the area have been scared, but that wasn't the actual intent of or motivation behind the attacks (however misguided their actual motivation behind them are). That's the difference. Another difference is that there isn't a stable and established government and identifiable leaders directly behind terrorism. When you're talking about actions of war undertaken by a nation's military, there is.

Islamophobia

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