Lance Armstrong doping ?

imalive wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

Bonds also sued people as well. He sued the Game of Shadows authors who exposed him as a cheater, because they were going to include grand jury testimony that proved he lied under oath.

uh....actually he didn't.....and he never wrapped himself in the american flag.....and he never sucked up to an american president....and he make nearly squadouche on endorsements :?

Actually he did. Bush called Bonds and congratulated him the night he "broke" Aarons record. And a simple Google search reveals Bonds did sue the authors of Game of Shadows. But later dropped it because he felt the lawsuit was "duplicative".

As for his salary, Bonds made 15 million alone in 2007 the year he broke the record. And the year prior made 20 million, the 4th highest salary in baseball. From 1986 to 2006, in 21 years, he made 176 million, making him at that time the highest paid baseball player in history.

Go Beavers wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

I do have a question for fellow tour fans. I stopped watching it in 2008 or so, because i felt like the everyone was doping. i havent watched it since.

Lance seemed to suggest, and Ive heard others say, the tour is now cleaned up.

Is this true? Is it alot harder for cyclists to dope now? Lance mentioned the biological passport and other new testing measures that have made it alot harder to cheat or elude or cheat drug tests. Is this correct?

During those years, 1999-2005, i did find cycling and the tour lots of fun to watch. But on the flip side, i also, find watching both MLB and cycling nowadays pointless because how can you trust anyone who wins or does anything.

Was the 2012 tour clean? Will the 2013 be?

It is harder to dope now and it's the cleanest it's ever been, both based on testing, teams emphasizing their own internal controls, biological passport info, and how the race has played out as well as the watt readings guys are putting up. The race has been more interesting lately, because it's more of a battle between multiple riders and teams, rather than two juiced guys and their doped teammates leaving everyone else in the dust.

You point out the other edge of the sword with such a high level of testing within cycling;they end up catching a lot of dopers, which then creates an uneasiness and distrust in the winners. The focus on creating a clean sport also creates doubt. If the NFL tested and consequenced players the same a cycling, the sport would be decimated. There's a certain level of denial in a lot of other professional sports.

maybe i'll watch in june this year. But I kind of think it wont be the same feeling I got back in those Lance years. For me at least, when I was watching those wins, doping hardly entered my mind. I remember it being an issue of course but at the time Lance seemed like one of the few clean riders. His story just transcended everything. Thats why everyone fell in love with the guy. Cycling didnt mean a thing to me prior to 1999. Nor had i ever watched a single Tour prior to Lance winning, or a single race period. I think that was a common experience among people during that time. And the way he and his team would win. They absolutely crushed every other rider and team. it was just so exciting to watch, and this was coming from, and still comes from a guy who isnt a big sports fan. I had a blast following Lance's progress each day. My parents had basic cable at the time, and called the cable company to order the Outdoor Channel. I remember excited to wake up early in the morning to check out the results of the day or to catch maybe the last 20 minutes of the race since the time difference would make it so the race would be over by about 9 in the morning my time. I remember being inspired by those amazing Nike commercials, and Im not a usual Nike supporter, in fact at that time I was a pretty big activist, so it was something indeed to think those commercials and the Livestrong gear was awesome. I wore the yellow bracelet for a good 3 or 4 years, maybe more. Every single day. Ive never been that into bike riding, but around those years, I remember bike riding in the summer and saying "im riding like Lance" to my parents. And how something like riding my bike which had been meaningless to me prior, now was cool, and fun. And I remember just being out and out inspired by Lance in general. The guy was told he had a few months to live, the cancer spread, and instead of giving up and hiding under the covers, he fought back and ended up winning the hardest sporting event in the world 7 times in a row. It was just such an incredible time and feeling we all felt.

Whats sad is I dont know if that feeling will ever come back. Im not too familiar with any of the current riders in the Tour, but with all sports now, we will forever wonder, "is this guy doping and cheating" "did he win this legitimately"? And the story, the backstory, the emotional and personal connection is something I dont think i'll find any time soon either.

It was just such a magical time back then. And i'd be lying if I said I didnt wish I could return back to that time, and feel all that again, thinking that doping wasnt widespread and that everyone was clean.

Absolutely brilliant!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nation ... 6557777255

FICTION!

musicismylife78 wrote:

I do have a question for fellow tour fans. I stopped watching it in 2008 or so, because i felt like the everyone was doping. i havent watched it since.

Lance seemed to suggest, and Ive heard others say, the tour is now cleaned up.

Is this true? Is it alot harder for cyclists to dope now? Lance mentioned the biological passport and other new testing measures that have made it alot harder to cheat or elude or cheat drug tests. Is this correct?

During those years, 1999-2005, i did find cycling and the tour lots of fun to watch. But on the flip side, i also, find watching both MLB and cycling nowadays pointless because how can you trust anyone who wins or does anything.

Was the 2012 tour clean? Will the 2013 be?

cycling is as clean as it ever has been ... still not perfect but when jobs and money are on the line - you have to expect the worse ...

since the scandals - cycling HAD to impose some of the hardest testing programs out there ... plus, there was an internal movement by some key people to just race clean ... there is a faction of teams that have joined a pact called the MPCC which pledges to adhere to a compliance protocol that is even stricter than WADA ... the biometrics todays top riders are putting forth are much more reasonable ... things such as their wattage per kilo of body weight was something i alluded to in the past to prove that lance doped ... the bioryhthmic nature of performance also suggests cleaner riders (having bad days) ...

last year's 3 grand tour winners were Ryder Hesjedal, Bradley Wiggins and Alberto Contador ... the only guy there i'm not sure was clean was contador ... the first two i am pretty sure rode clean for a plethora of reasons which include the numbers they were putting and the times they were setting plus how they suffered at various points in their races ...

as a longtime cycling fan - i believe it is as exciting as ever ... this year's grand tours are gonna be nothing short of spectacular ... lots of talent at the top and it will truly require not only extreme fitness but team work, guts and lots of luck to win ...

it's the 100th anniversary of the tdf ... it's the one everyone wants to win ... right now the favourites would have to be:

chris froome, alberto contador, joaquim rodriguez ... but there are others that will play a part and have chances to win ... andy shleck, ryder hesjedal, tj van garderen, bradley wiggins, jurgen van der broeck ...

lots of top level talent ... if you're a fan of cycling you should be watching all the grand tours ... if you're a fan of lance - don't bother ...

musicismylife78 wrote:

none of my heroes are perfect or all good. I couldnt relate to a hero that was. I make mistakes, my life isnt perfect, i have problems and stumble and fall and all that. Having heroes that reflect that only makes sense. A hero that had no problems didnt make mistakes, didnt mess up, what purpose would that serve me? I cant relate to that.

this is what is called self-rationalization ... it's like you want to bury your face in fried chicken wings despite having heart problems and cholesterol issues and you make up an excuse as to why you should eat them ...

we understand that lance was a hero to you in many ways ... he was a hero to many ... what we are trying to explain to you is that he is a fraud ... the aspects of lance that made him a hero to you were partly fabricated to build his brand and hid what his true nature was ... there are plenty of people worthy of hero status ... and i can guarantee you they are all flawed in one way or another ... we don't look for perfection in heros ... we should not look for perfection in humans period ... what we should look for is at the very least integrity and truth ... something that if we all aspired to - would make the world a heckuva lot better place ...

you don't need to self-rationalize your faith in him in the past nor continue to support a man that despite all that has happened continues to LIE and serve only his own interests ... it can be argued that he is more of a fraud today than he was prior to the interview ...

the truth would set lance free ... it's time you set yourself free ... it's okay to be wrong in this world ... it doesn't make us bad people ...

polaris_x wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

none of my heroes are perfect or all good. I couldnt relate to a hero that was. I make mistakes, my life isnt perfect, i have problems and stumble and fall and all that. Having heroes that reflect that only makes sense. A hero that had no problems didnt make mistakes, didnt mess up, what purpose would that serve me? I cant relate to that.

this is what is called self-rationalization ... it's like you want to bury your face in fried chicken wings despite having heart problems and cholesterol issues and you make up an excuse as to why you should eat them ...

we understand that lance was a hero to you in many ways ... he was a hero to many ... what we are trying to explain to you is that he is a fraud ... the aspects of lance that made him a hero to you were partly fabricated to build his brand and hid what his true nature was ... there are plenty of people worthy of hero status ... and i can guarantee you they are all flawed in one way or another ... we don't look for perfection in heros ... we should not look for perfection in humans period ... what we should look for is at the very least integrity and truth ... something that if we all aspired to - would make the world a heckuva lot better place ...

you don't need to self-rationalize your faith in him in the past nor continue to support a man that despite all that has happened continues to LIE and serve only his own interests ... it can be argued that he is more of a fraud today than he was prior to the interview ...

the truth would set lance free ... it's time you set yourself free ... it's okay to be wrong in this world ... it doesn't make us bad people ...

Why do feel like you have the power to tell me who I can and cant view as a hero? You really think im going to read your post and change my mind based on it? Will any fan of Lance's? To each their own, i personally think its sad that people would try and tell others they cant or shouldnt view someone as a hero. Who are you to tell anyone anything?

I think theres a certain amount of holier than thou pontification going on here, and its both laughable and disturbing.

America and the world doesnt work like you seem to think it does. Few people ever do anything bad enough, if they are a public figure, to cause the public to think of them as beyond repair.

musicismylife78 wrote:

Why do feel like you have the power to tell me who I can and cant view as a hero? You really think im going to read your post and change my mind based on it? Will any fan of Lance's? To each their own, i personally think its sad that people would try and tell others they cant or shouldnt view someone as a hero. Who are you to tell anyone anything?

I think theres a certain amount of holier than thou pontification going on here, and its both laughable and disturbing.

America and the world doesnt work like you seem to think it does. Few people ever do anything bad enough, if they are a public figure, to cause the public to think of them as beyond repair.

oh dear ... it's not about me telling you who you should or shouldn't call a hero ... perhaps i am being naive in thinking that given all the facts - lance should not be a hero in anyone's eyes ... from his bullying of people, to his ruining of lives to his exploitation of a deadly disease for personal gain ... but hey - if you are gonna stick with this guy through it all ... all the power to you ... just know that you will continue to be disappointed by him as you've admitted ...

all i am trying to do is give you all the facts ... much of which over the course of this thread you've chosen to ignore ...

musicismylife78 wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

pdalowsky wrote:

A vast majority of those slamming Lance would have done just as he did.

Faced with that fork in the road, of cheating in a cheating ridden sport to become wealthy beyond your imagination at minimal risk......or being one of a number of cyclists battling to win against people doping, then have a think .....what would you have done? the moral compass is all well and good when its someone else.

However his actions against a great many people stinks. The man is a twat plain and simple but i dont say that because he doped.

Sadly, you're probably right. I would not cheat myself no matter what the payoff, but I'm sorry to find that most people in this world have little to no sense of right or wrong, or duty or personal morals when it comes to money or success, or even just their own convenience (I am experiencing this fact right now on a smaller level. I've been called to jury duty selection, and the number of people who have advised me to shirk my civic duty by lying or doing something to sabotage myself so that I don't get picked is shocking. It totally disgusts me). I find myself feeling quite disappointed in people in general most of the time. However, that is no reason not to hold people accountable when they're caught. It may be hypocritical for most people to shit all over Armstrong (not for me), but that doesn't mean that it's not just that he gets shit upon.

for me its so self evident as to be not even worth mentioning. the sheer numbers of cyclists who doped during those years indicates doping was the rule not the exception. What Hamilton said makes complete sense, one day he noticed his opponents were just zipping past him, flying through the mountains, and guys who normally wouldnt have been that fast. To keep up, he said, you needed to dope. And that does make sense. Certainly, lying about it for 10 years like Lance and Hamilton did isnt moral or good, but at the time, during those races, I can completely understand why Lance and everyone else who doped didnt think it was cheating, or wrong. Everyone was doing it. 80 percent of the peloton was. These guys had a choice. Either remain pure and moral and ethical and not dope, and languish in obscurity and be guaranteed NOT to win or even place in a Tour. Or dope and have a shot at winning. The doping clearly was working and paying off and getting results. Not doping from that point of view didnt have any results.

Plus, its not like the officials and higher ups and management of cycling at the time was doing much of anything to discourage its use. Cycling had gone from this obscure sport no one cared about, to this MAJOR sporting event that kids, parents and grandparents all were invested in, spent time and money on. Biking became more popular than ever. Cyclists became household names. As I said, my dad called the cable company at the time, to get them to install the Outdoor channel in our house so we could watch the Tour.

And again, as I said before, I think lance was being honest when he said, at that time, you couldnt win 7 in a row without doping. I cant imagine riding 2,000 miles over a month. Climbing those insane mountains like they do. Its just so far removed and so much more athletic than basketball or baseball or something like that. Its a brutal race.

What people seem to fail to understand is Lance isnt unique in the lying or cheating department, not even in terms of doing it for so many years. Hamilton and other teammates werent going to just come out and say it, they had lied for just as long as lance had. Hamilton said he, meaning hamilton, first doped in 97, the year after the supposed hospital room confession. He was lying and cheating and pretending and putting on this facade just like Lance was.

The only reason any of those guys admitted it, was because they were subpeoned. Had they not been, I have no doubt they and Lance would still be denying it.

I don't really understand how any of what you just said matters. If those people had any fucking moral fortitude, none of them would have doped and the problem wouldn't exist. I think the "everyone was doing it" excuse is one of the worst excuses known to man.

In any case, Lance did go above and beyond in the lying asshole department in trying to cover up.

BTW, he also broke laws.

musicismylife what you are missing out on is the fact the Lance did nothing even slightly comparable the the historical figures you've mentioned. All the baseball players you keep bringing up were also doing what everyone else was doing.

Lance did very little for cycling. The only reason we know he won 7 in a row is because it was on the news. No one with any interest is real sports actually watches that shit.

he knew he had had it and only wants to compete again but i cant see that happening .
he was worth $125 m before and ill bet hes squirrelled aload away but hes still going to be worth $50+m so hes not to badly of .. :roll: :roll:
info.... http://www.financemanila.net/2013/01/ho ... on-doping/