Lance Armstrong doping ?

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  • eddiec
    eddiec Posts: 3,963
    polaris_x wrote:
    eddiec wrote:
    But if everyone has bad days, yet everyone seems to have been doping..as we know some of his teamates were..then what? Was Lance just a better doper than they were. His method of doping didn't allow for bad days while other guys that were doping still had those 'bad' days?

    like i said in a previous post ... if the field was level - lance would have likely won multiple tdfs... hard to say cuz he competed at a time when many of his main rivals doped ... lance's teammates had jobs to do ... if you are a domestique - you often work harder than your team captain ... so, they did their jobs (aided by drugs) and that was that ... what's your point here?

    I'm referring to his rivals. In the article you posted earlier the author says no guys in the top 20 were clean. Which means all of Lance's rivals were doping. So why did his rivals have these bad days you refer to and Lance did not? That's what I'm asking. If having none of these off days is proof he was doping then why did the rest of the doping field succumb to these 'bad' days?
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    That's the problem with sports anymore...hard to tell who is cheating anymore.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    eddiec wrote:
    I'm referring to his rivals. In the article you posted earlier the author says no guys in the top 20 were clean. Which means all of Lance's rivals were doping. So why did his rivals have these bad days you refer to and Lance did not? That's what I'm asking. If having none of these off days is proof he was doping then why did the rest of the doping field succumb to these 'bad' days?

    the rivals didn't have bad days ... they just couldn't keep up with lance ... you gotta remember that these guys like ullrich and kloeden would finish second or third on the tough mountain stages ... and yeah - periodically they would blow up trying to stay with him ...

    this is what is meant by bad days ... it means that you ride that day just trying to limit your losses ... you hope your teammates can drag you up ... blowing up trying to stay with someone is not having a bad day ... it's redlining and bonking ... something lance never did either ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    DS1119 wrote:
    Arguing about Lance Armstrong is like discussing the NAtional Spelling Bee Champion. As a rule...no one in the US could give a fuck about him or the sport. :lol:
    I admire him for his work in Dodgeball. If it wasn't for his inspiration, the Globo Gym Purple Cobras would be world champs.

    Greatest cyclist of all time! party0006.gif
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • DS1119
    DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    Jason P wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    Arguing about Lance Armstrong is like discussing the NAtional Spelling Bee Champion. As a rule...no one in the US could give a fuck about him or the sport. :lol:
    I admire him for his work in Dodgeball. If it wasn't for his inspiration, the Globo Gym Purple Cobras would be world champs.
    party0006.gif


    :lol::lol::lol::lol:
  • eddiec
    eddiec Posts: 3,963
    Would there even have been an investigation if Lance had finished in 2nd place 7 times?
  • SVRDhand13
    SVRDhand13 Posts: 27,016
    JK_Livin wrote:
    Dopestrong!

    Live StongER
    severed hand thirteen
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    2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
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  • SVRDhand13
    SVRDhand13 Posts: 27,016
    Now the Tour de France title has been stripped between the years 1999-2006- thats absurd :o
    severed hand thirteen
    2006: Gorge 7/23 2008: Hartford 6/27 Beacon 7/1 2009: Spectrum 10/30-31
    2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
    2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
    2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
    2017: RRHoF 4/7   2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4   2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18 
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    eddiec wrote:
    Would there even have been an investigation if Lance had finished in 2nd place 7 times?

    there actually wouldn't have been an investigation if lance didn't come out of retirement and race again ... the statute of limitations would have ran out ... but by coming out of retirement he extended that ...

    lance's doom started when WADA took over the regulation of the sport ... that meant guys that were being protected were not getting caught ... and when all was said and done ... the house of cards started to crumble ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    SVRDhand13 wrote:
    Now the Tour de France title has been stripped between the years 1999-2006- thats absurd :o

    they should void those years altogether ...
  • eddiec
    eddiec Posts: 3,963
    SVRDhand13 wrote:
    Now the Tour de France title has been stripped between the years 1999-2006- thats absurd :o

    Maybe if they go after Indurain in the same way they went after Armstrong they can strip it from 1991-1995 as well.

    Edit: If they went...
  • eddiec
    eddiec Posts: 3,963
    polaris_x wrote:
    eddiec wrote:
    Would there even have been an investigation if Lance had finished in 2nd place 7 times?

    there actually wouldn't have been an investigation if lance didn't come out of retirement and race again ... the statute of limitations would have ran out ... but by coming out of retirement he extended that ...

    lance's doom started when WADA took over the regulation of the sport ... that meant guys that were being protected were not getting caught ... and when all was said and done ... the house of cards started to crumble ...

    Was Lance aware of that at the time? If he had gotten away with it why come back and make yourself vulnerable to future investigations unless you are, in fact, innocent?
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    There is no way Lance could win against the usada anyways...they have limitless resources. Lance eventually would have gone bankrupt fighting it...IMO.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • PJFAN13
    PJFAN13 Posts: 1,422
    eddiec wrote:
    If he had gotten away with it why come back and make yourself vulnerable to future investigations unless you are, in fact, innocent?
    Because like Nixon, Bonds, Clemens, etc... they think they are above the law. The arrogance of these cheaters is disturbing. Money can't buy happiness and it can't buy innocence.
    You cannot have so many people write books, Justice Department investigations, teammates, competitors, federal agencies, etc...point the finger at you if there isn't at least something to it.
    This sucks by the way. I watched those last 5 TDF's, I was consumed with it. Owned the yellow "Livestrong" bracelets. Last night hearing those 7 TDF titles were stripped and he was banned made me feel the same exact way McGuire & Sosa's cheating made me feel.
    I'm so sick of cheating in sports, really. Its a crushing heartbreaker. I personally get so wrapped up and invested in these "heroic acts" and "amazing feats" - only to have utter disappointment end up at the end of them. I'm naive I guess...
    :(
    11.30.93~10.2.96~9.13.98~9.1.00~8.25.00~7.3.03~7.5.03
    7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
    8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
    11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
    2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.24
  • SVRDhand13
    SVRDhand13 Posts: 27,016
    polaris_x wrote:
    eddiec wrote:
    Would there even have been an investigation if Lance had finished in 2nd place 7 times?

    there actually wouldn't have been an investigation if lance didn't come out of retirement and race again ... the statute of limitations would have ran out ... but by coming out of retirement he extended that ...

    :shock: wow I didnt know that

    And its not even like he won when he came back. 3rd place is very respectable but retiring on top (as he did in 2005) is the way to go
    severed hand thirteen
    2006: Gorge 7/23 2008: Hartford 6/27 Beacon 7/1 2009: Spectrum 10/30-31
    2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
    2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
    2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
    2017: RRHoF 4/7   2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4   2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18 
    2022: MSG 9/11  2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
    2025: Pittsburgh 5/16+5/18
  • PJFAN13
    PJFAN13 Posts: 1,422
    Or simply put, like George Costanza said so brilliantly "It's not a lie if you believe it"
    11.30.93~10.2.96~9.13.98~9.1.00~8.25.00~7.3.03~7.5.03
    7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
    8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
    11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
    2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.24
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    eddiec wrote:
    Was Lance aware of that at the time? If he had gotten away with it why come back and make yourself vulnerable to future investigations unless you are, in fact, innocent?

    for lance ... it's always about him and his ego ... his foundation ... everything ... it's about him ... all through his career he had everyone coat tail to him ... this guy controlled everything ... from the UCI to the press corps to the sponsors ... he had journalists banned ... he had cyclists careers ended ... he was the most powerful man in cycling ... too big to fail ...

    dude ... there is a mountain of evidence (no pun intended) ... you need to observe all of it objectively here ... i was a huge lance fan ... i've been watching pro cycling since 1986 before he even came to prominence ... i didn't want to believe he doped ... but it's just too much to overlook ... look at all the information critically and you will see this ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    PJFAN13 wrote:
    Because like Nixon, Bonds, Clemens, etc... they think they are above the law. The arrogance of these cheaters is disturbing. Money can't buy happiness and it can't buy innocence.
    You cannot have so many people write books, Justice Department investigations, teammates, competitors, federal agencies, etc...point the finger at you if there isn't at least something to it.
    This sucks by the way. I watched those last 5 TDF's, I was consumed with it. Owned the yellow "Livestrong" bracelets. Last night hearing those 7 TDF titles were stripped and he was banned made me feel the same exact way McGuire & Sosa's cheating made me feel.
    I'm so sick of cheating in sports, really. Its a crushing heartbreaker. I personally get so wrapped up and invested in these "heroic acts" and "amazing feats" - only to have utter disappointment end up at the end of them. I'm naive I guess...
    :(

    for sure we shouldn't be looking towards celebrities for inspiration ...
  • musicismylife78
    musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    i dont know if its specific to celebrities though. I hope lance didnt use. But right now sports has a major problem with cheating. every single sport. and im not sure why that is, maybe its the larger paradigm of winning at all costs, or that winning is the only acceptable option that permeates not only sports but buisness and societal life in general. And in general you do have to feel for some of these younger players in all the sports who no doubt at one point were faced with this insane ethical dilemma, whether cycling, or sprinting, or baseball etc... that most of their teammates and opponents were using, and they didnt want to be left in the dust, but they also knew it was wrong. I think thats probably most true in baseball where it appears nearly every single player was doping. In that sort of climate, how do you maintain ethical stances? If you know the majority of your teammates and the team you are playing is using, how do you square that?

    Reguardless of what this means for lance, i think its clear drugs in sports, steroids in sports is still a major issue and isnt going away
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,036
    I have always strongly disliked Lance Armstrong. I always saw him for the scumbag he was and hated how he used cancer to make himself rich. His entire persona was so fake. It was clear he was doping and it was clear he was a dirtball but everyone loved him. I hated that. Now, I am glad to say that this is coming to a conclusion but I have slightly mixed feelings.

    Regardless of how fake he is, how much of a scumbag he was in real life and how little his charity actually has given to cancer research, he gave a lot of people hope. I saw it first hand the first time my old man had cancer. He was given his book as a gift while he was in the hospital and he read it and the hope it gave him was unreal. It sounds weird, but I feel like it gave him a sense of pride in that he was going to beat cancer and could go on to do whatever he wanted (until he died a few years later of an unrelated cancer :evil: ). And regardless of whether his story would be true without doping was irrelevant, his story seriously helped him get through that, and that won't change.

    So as much of a scumbag as he really is, as shitty as he treats everyone, as much as he has used his chairty for personal benefit and as much as he has cheated, there is still the side that give people with very little hope, hope, and that's a great thing. It doesn't make me respect him anymore as a person but his story should still be insipiring, regardless of outcome.

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