Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

norm wrote:

you're awesome, em...i just speak cosmo...helps to have a overly sarcastic mind

...
That's for translating. I know that sometimes my mind works if odd ways... just part of being a cat... that smokes too much, I suppose.
...
Now... do you speak pandorian, by chance?

here's the deal. i wanna be friendly with most people, here and in the eye to eye world. i myself do not want anyone i communicate with on here to feel bad about anything i type out. pandora and some other folks may drive me batshit crazy but in no way shape or form do i want hatred and anything cruel to come between us.

i do admire folks with strong opinions even when we do not share views. different views is good and adds color to the mix. i want peace at the end of the day when it comes to these exhausting topics. then we can pick up where we left off the next morning. no ill will should be cast towards anyone of us. we're all here to rock & learn.

basically guns are nasty as fuck

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Mental illness encompasses all types of mental issues and behaviors.

From thought disorders, to depression to anger management, on and on.
It includes alcoholism and other substance abuse.

So if we address this and are proactive on getting people well in their heads,
well in their bodies, well in their lives,
the guns will remain in the hands of responsible people, who have no need to
resort to rage, crime for gain, revenge or killing in a delusional state.

Your information is not correct, but I'm not going to debate it with you. To be considered an "illness" it has to have a biological basis or we can't even bill for it. Substance abuse and milk was are separate issues that can co-occur but require different treatments and are not interchangeable. Youve been referring to schizophrenia and psychotic disorders, not substance abuse. I don't think it's relevant to the conversation, but would be happy to discuss it on another thread.

Oh boy priceless

This on the list to make a person who needs help crack I'm sure...
this the people others rely on to help keep the from cracking ...
no wonder the people with mental issues are losing it :fp:
unfrickinbelievable

Substance abuse is starting in young undiagnosed children...
it causes them to get addicted, who then sell or commit crimes to support the habit

Substance abuse causes side effects in young adults very much like clinical depression
and there is now new studies approaching the idea it can bring on full blown
mental illness as in schizophrenia

Substance abuse can cause family violence

just to name a few
and sorry it doesn't perfectly fit for you....

But could you have a problem with cause and effect?
Like in the big picture...

Damn! You have caught on to our evil plan! *insert evil laughter*
I'm going to strongly suggest that you refrain from the provocative and condescending comments. Stick to the issue.

To try and explain it, an injury is different from a disease which is different from an illness, right? A broken leg (injury) is different than a disease (cancer) and an illness (flu). Why do the names matter? Because they help us understand the origins and best treatments. The treatment for a broken leg is very different than the treatment for cancer. Now all these things can influence each other and impact the treatment as well. You can't group things together because they are very different. If you're going to help someone you better damn well make sure you understand the origin of the issue and the most effective treatment.

As Mickeyrat explained, substance abuse can in fact cause psychosis. I mentioned this very early on the thread. The treatment would be very different, however. In this case a substance is causing the psychosis and proper treatment would be to remove that substance from the system. Very different from schizophrenia which would require medication. On top of the addiction issues there may be underlying mental health issues. Both deserve treatment.

I'm not sure why I'm even explaining this anymore you have been successful in having a circular discussion veering way off topic. I'm not sure how we even got here my only point being the current system is overburdened and cannot meet your vision.

EmBleve thanks for you're input. It's spot on.

Cosmo - I will take that helmet now. I found myself explaining this to my cat, she got it. It's probably time to move on.

Wow... look at all those extra pages!

Did see a drink (though I may have had a couple already!), and noticed that I would have more chance of a conversation with my cat?

**goes off to see if any of her 6 cats aren't hiding away from daughter's noisy party outside/downstairs to have a conversation....... found one! "Hey Rogue... so... what do you think". "Well... looking at all the arguments put forth, I do believe that you should feed me." OK... so that didn't quite work out as anticipated...**


Oh... and CHADWICK FOR PRESIDENT!

redrock wrote:

Wow... look at all those extra pages!

Did see a drink (though I may have had a couple already!), and noticed that I would have more chance of a conversation with my cat?

**goes off to see if any of her 6 cats aren't hiding away from daughter's noisy party outside/downstairs to have a conversation....... found one! "Hey Rogue... so... what do you think". "Well... looking at all the arguments put forth, I do believe that you should feed me." OK... so that didn't quite work out as anticipated...**


Oh... and CHADWICK FOR PRESIDENT!

EmBleve wrote:

pandora wrote:

and there is now new studies approaching the idea it can bring on full blown
mental illness as in schizophreniaSubstance abuse can cause family violence

just to name a few
and sorry it doesn't perfectly fit for you....

But could you have a problem with cause and effect?
Like in the big picture...

Really?? I would like to see an article of these said studies from an nationally acclaimed journal, such as those approved by the AMA or the APA. Substance abuse may 'bring on' similar symptomology as these psychotic disorders (which is widely known), but it is not known that substance abuse develops into 'full blown' schizophrenia. If what I'm saying is wrong, it's news to me, and show me proof (and I will gladly eat my shoe--it's just something that I have never heard of without being concomitant, insofar as what you're saying). And substance abuse has the potential to cause violence?? What?? No way. :roll:

pandora wrote:

Whats funny about this but really it so isn't ...
is that there are people reading this out there who are in big trouble with mental issues.
Who are at a breaking point about what to do with no place to go for help,
no money, no insurance, they were sent away already at the emergency room,
told...
sorry you haven't hurt yourself or someone else yet can't keep ya.
And you guys are talking crap about how I am speaking, :fp:
most especially since we have the king of rude to me here... of course...
can't stay away for some reason.

The thing is this whole industry is massively failing our youth, our elderly, our in
betweens. People are making nice comfortable and then some salaries
on those who are insured.
Those who aren't well whatever...
not my problem.

Well the young man driving wrong way on the road that night was a lot of peoples' problem.
His mental issues, now their problem.
All the family, friends the co workers, the church goers, the communities all suffered
because this boy had no help. I suffered.
Maybe someone reading suffered just a little at the thought of these lost lives.

Mulitply this by the number who are using whatever their weapon of choice
and we see it is everyone's problem.

When people can understand this then we will finally make progress to stop violence.

People need help and it can be provided, it is feasible, if everyone works together.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS ABOUT ME?? What do you know about me??
Again, ASSUMPTIONS.. you know what they say.. and I live with, and take care of, my elderly father, plus have a full time, low-paying job---PLUS lost my mom, whom my dad and I also took care of before her death.. I am nearly 40 years old and have had more impactful experiences than you can measure--because you don't freaking know them, nor realize.. but yet YOU--along with your interpretation of all these other faceless cases to whom you so readily refer from newspaper articles...have the placement to pass judgment on others... get a fucking grip (again, with all due respect).

pandora wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Pandora said:
This on the list to make a person who needs help crack I'm sure...
this the people others rely on to help keep the from cracking ...
no wonder the people with mental issues are losing it
unfrickinbelievable

Pandora said:
Does the person care about your mumbo jumbo?
I know I don't ...

Pandora said:
Semantics again...
I was asked what I propose to do to help those with mental issues
and I came up with a solution of help.
All I hear is a bunch of crap on what to label someone.

now you are just being incredibly disrespectful and rude. you should probably quit.

thank you Hugh. It's ridiculous, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who can see through that (and I'm sure we're not the only ones).

Whats funny about this but really it so isn't ...
is that there are people reading this out there who are in big trouble with mental issues.
Who are at a breaking point about what to do with no place to go for help,
no money, no insurance, they were sent away already at the emergency room,
told...
sorry you haven't hurt yourself or someone else yet can't keep ya.

And you guys are talking crap about how I am speaking, :fp:
most especially since we have the king of rude to me here... of course...
can't stay away for some reason.

The thing is this whole industry is massively failing our youth, our elderly, our in
betweens. People are making nice comfortable and then some salaries
on those who are insured.
Those who aren't well whatever...
not my problem.

Well the young man driving wrong way on the road that night was a lot of peoples' problem.
His mental issues, now their problem.
All the family, friends the co workers, the church goers, the communities all suffered
because this boy had no help. I suffered.
Maybe someone reading suffered just a little at the thought of these lost lives.

Mulitply this by the number who are using whatever their weapon of choice
and we see it is everyone's problem.

When people can understand this then we will finally make progress to stop violence.

People need help and it can be provided, it is feasible, if everyone works together.

The pit should not be a source of mental health info or advice for anyone in need. Including what I've posted. Access a clinician directly, or NAMI or the mental health association.

Do you know the average salaries of clinicians, particularly those that work at community mental health centers? Typically $30k - $45k for those with advanced degrees and post grad clinical experience. Not exactly comfortable when you factor in the cost of student loans, required continuing education, licensure, malpractice insurance, etc.