Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

pandora

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Sounds a bit like Jack Handey.

Why do you insist on lumping the two together? Many people here have painfully tried to point out to you that, despite moments where they overlap... they are separate issues. It would make more sense to try and eliminate 'alcoholism and crime' than 'mental health and crime'.

There are two issues here (I respect your position on one).

Mental illness encompasses all types of mental issues and behaviors.

From thought disorders, to depression to anger management, on and on.
It includes alcoholism and other substance abuse.

So if we address this and are proactive on getting people well in their heads,
well in their bodies, well in their lives,
the guns will remain in the hands of responsible people, who have no need to
resort to rage, crime for gain, revenge or killing in a delusional state.

comebackgirl

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

bring it! :cool:

...
I should teach you the Five Pointed Palm Exploding Head Technique.
...
Oh, wait... this thread is that technique.
...
Nevermind.

I think my head did just exploded. I've never had to repeat myself so many times in so many different ways while literally side stepping bullets

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

cheers Jonny! Happy Friday! ... don't forget to duck

I've done my share of ducking! No, actually, I usually would hit the floor when I heard shots fired. In my new neighborhood, I'd be more inclined to duck though...these peaceful folks on the better side of the tracks are probably not as good an aim as the gangsters.

Cosmo

comebackgirl wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

bring it! :cool:

...
I should teach you the Five Pointed Palm Exploding Head Technique.
...
Oh, wait... this thread is that technique.
...
Nevermind.

I think my head did just exploded. I've never had to repeat myself so many times in so many different ways while literally side stepping bullets

If you are not going to take my advice... please, at least, wear one of these to protect that pretty little forehead of yours:

...
I do believe they make one in pink... you know, to match your shoes.

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

Yes all crime. Those are crimes; i never said theyre not And no, mental illness is not the cause of those things. You're talking about two seperate issues.

I listed the article twice already. Feel free to give it another read.

Don't care about a stinking article,
we see what people are doing and you are talking semantics ... really?

I will call it mental issues because obviously when one is depressed, angry,
hate filled, suicidal, they are in need of mental health help...

good lord...

The walk in clinics will help everyone not just the clinically perfect mentally ill
book described subject :fp:

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

cheers Jonny! Happy Friday! ... don't forget to duck

I've done my share of ducking! No, actually, I usually would hit the floor when I heard shots fired. In my new neighborhood, I'd be more inclined to duck though...these peaceful folks on the better side of the tracks are probably not as good an aim as the gangsters.

you a lucky one indeed

dimitrispearljam

pa pa pa pa pa.....

thats what your life worth.....

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Sounds a bit like Jack Handey.

Why do you insist on lumping the two together? Many people here have painfully tried to point out to you that, despite moments where they overlap... they are separate issues. It would make more sense to try and eliminate 'alcoholism and crime' than 'mental health and crime'.

There are two issues here (I respect your position on one).

Mental illness encompasses all types of mental issues and behaviors.

From thought disorders, to depression to anger management, on and on.
It includes alcoholism and other substance abuse.

So if we address this and are proactive on getting people well in their heads,
well in their bodies, well in their lives,
the guns will remain in the hands of responsible people, who have no need to
resort to rage, crime for gain, revenge or killing in a delusional state.

Your information is not correct, but I'm not going to debate it with you. To be considered an "illness" it has to have a biological basis or we can't even bill for it. Substance abuse and milk was are separate issues that can co-occur but require different treatments and are not interchangeable. Youve been referring to schizophrenia and psychotic disorders, not substance abuse. I don't think it's relevant to the conversation, but would be happy to discuss it on another thread.

Cosmo

comebackgirl wrote:

Your information is not correct, but I'm not going to debate it with you. To be considered an "illness" it has to have a biological basis or we can't even bill for it. Substance abuse and milk was are separate issues that can co-occur but require different treatments and are not interchangeable. Youve been referring to schizophrenia and psychotic disorders, not substance abuse. I don't think it's relevant to the conversation, but would be happy to discuss it on another thread.

...

...
Please... wear it. Your forehead is either going to drop onto your desk... or you are going to slam it against a wall. Please!!!

EmBleve

comebackgirl wrote:

redrock wrote:

Why do we keep on having 'mental illness' and 'crime' in the same sentence as if they're Siamese twins?

Thank you!!!

EmBleve

O.M.G. Some things said in this thread, even since my post this morning, are so unrealistic and utterly exhausting that I can't stand to read it all. Really. It's laughable. My attention deserves more. Why are you bothering yourselves?

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Sounds a bit like Jack Handey.

Why do you insist on lumping the two together? Many people here have painfully tried to point out to you that, despite moments where they overlap... they are separate issues. It would make more sense to try and eliminate 'alcoholism and crime' than 'mental health and crime'.

There are two issues here (I respect your position on one).

Mental illness encompasses all types of mental issues and behaviors.

From thought disorders, to depression to anger management, on and on.
It includes alcoholism and other substance abuse.

So if we address this and are proactive on getting people well in their heads,
well in their bodies, well in their lives,
the guns will remain in the hands of responsible people, who have no need to
resort to rage, crime for gain, revenge or killing in a delusional state.

Your information is not correct, but I'm not going to debate it with you. To be considered an "illness" it has to have a biological basis or we can't even bill for it. Substance abuse and milk was are separate issues that can co-occur but require different treatments and are not interchangeable. Youve been referring to schizophrenia and psychotic disorders, not substance abuse. I don't think it's relevant to the conversation, but would be happy to discuss it on another thread.

Oh boy priceless

This on the list to make a person who needs help crack I'm sure...
this the people others rely on to help keep the from cracking ...
no wonder the people with mental issues are losing it :fp:
unfrickinbelievable

Substance abuse is starting in young undiagnosed children...
it causes them to get addicted, who then sell or commit crimes to support the habit

Substance abuse causes side effects in young adults very much like clinical depression
and there is now new studies approaching the idea it can bring on full blown
mental illness as in schizophrenia

Substance abuse can cause family violence

just to name a few
and sorry it doesn't perfectly fit for you....

But could you have a problem with cause and effect?
Like in the big picture...

Godfather.

cosmo....nevermind :shock:


Godfather.

EmBleve

okay, I'll play for a second, since it has my attention (meant jokingly, and not elitist)..
There is a difference--thus referred to as a differential diagnosis, between schizophrenia, and a Substance-Induced Psychotic Disorder, Substance-Induced Delirium, and Substance-Related Disorders, etc.. This is from the DSM-IV. Please stop stating things as fact when they are not.
Tangential thought...tangential thread. just saying.

EmBleve

pandora wrote:

and there is now new studies approaching the idea it can bring on full blown
mental illness as in schizophreniaSubstance abuse can cause family violence

just to name a few
and sorry it doesn't perfectly fit for you....

But could you have a problem with cause and effect?
Like in the big picture...

Really?? I would like to see an article of these said studies from an nationally acclaimed journal, such as those approved by the AMA or the APA. Substance abuse may 'bring on' similar symptomology as these psychotic disorders (which is widely known), but it is not known that substance abuse develops into 'full blown' schizophrenia. If what I'm saying is wrong, it's news to me, and show me proof (and I will gladly eat my shoe--it's just something that I have never heard of without being concomitant, insofar as what you're saying). And substance abuse has the potential to cause violence?? What?? No way. :roll:

Who Princess

I'll say a few things, based on 25+ years working in social services, including mental health, and on my own observations.

The absence of mental health doesn't necessarily equal mental illness. With physical health, if I'm overeating, never exercising, smoking cigarettes, etc., I may not be sick but I probably wouldn't be described as healthy. Someone may behave in ways that aren't considered acceptable in our culture but that doesn't mean they're mentally ill.

Some people with mental illnesses self-medicate with alcohol and drugs. Many more people use alcohol and drugs because they are addicted, i.e., they have a physical dependency on a substance. It will impair their thoughts and actions but it is not the same as being mentally ill.

To suggest that people with depression act out their illnesses by being violent offends me very much. I have known many, many people who suffered from depression, including family members. I've never known anyone who expressed it through violence toward others. Most people with depression are doing good to get out of bed in the morning. They're not going to go shoot up a theater or workplace.

Finally, I have been an advocate for persons with mental illness for many years. I have worked as an educator to teach people about mental illnesses and to encourage compassion. We absolutely need more services. But it's incorrect to suggest that every person with mental illness will seek treatment. It's much more complicated than the stigma of seeking help. For example, some people with bipolar disorder refuse to take their medications because they miss the rush of their manic phases. Other people with thought disorders will stop taking their meds because of the side effects. You may wonder why but most of us can't appreciate how those medications affect a person, especially if they have to take more than one. Blurred vision, dizziness, dry mouth, facial tics, impotence, and other side effects may seem to most of us like a small price to pay. But until we've experienced it to the degree that some patients have, we can't really understand why some people will disregard treatment.

pandora

EmBleve wrote:

okay, I'll play for a second, since it has my attention (meant jokingly, and not elitist)..
There is a difference--thus referred to as a differential diagnosis, between schizophrenia, and a Substance-Induced Psychotic Disorder, Substance-Induced Delirium, and Substance-Related Disorders, etc.. This is from the DSM-IV. Please stop stating things as fact when they are not.
Tangential thought...tangential thread. just saying.

Does the person care about your mumbo jumbo?
I know I don't ...
What difference does it make to them? The suffering,
they want help before they hurt themselves or others...

Semantics again...
I was asked what I propose to do to help those with mental issues
and I came up with a solution of help.
All I hear is a bunch of crap on what to label someone.


I'll play along too...
young man deep in depression from the overuse of illegal sought
prescription drugs, his body has been calling for something so long
he can't remenber when he ever felt right... even long before
the first pill.

He gets in his car... he's angry at the world at himself
he never does anything right. He's going to do this right though.

It is the wee hours of the morning, he pops his last pills...
downed with a half a bottle of Jack
and gets on the highway going in the wrong direction...
on purpose.

Young beautiful family, two beautiful children sleeping peacefully in the back seat
of the mini van, on their way to their first visit to Disneyworld,
the impact is horrifying, cars collide head on..
leaving teddy bears lying in blood on the ground. All five are dead.

Do we think this young man had mental issues?
Do we think he needed help?
Do we think he cared or the family cared what you were going to label him?

Do we think we could have changed this?

I do if some would get over themselves and care about people who are just people
who need help.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Pandora said:
This on the list to make a person who needs help crack I'm sure...
this the people others rely on to help keep the from cracking ...
no wonder the people with mental issues are losing it
unfrickinbelievable

Pandora said:
Does the person care about your mumbo jumbo?
I know I don't ...

Pandora said:
Semantics again...
I was asked what I propose to do to help those with mental issues
and I came up with a solution of help.
All I hear is a bunch of crap on what to label someone.

now you are just being incredibly disrespectful and rude. you should probably quit.

EmBleve

pandora wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

okay, I'll play for a second, since it has my attention (meant jokingly, and not elitist)..
There is a difference--thus referred to as a differential diagnosis, between schizophrenia, and a Substance-Induced Psychotic Disorder, Substance-Induced Delirium, and Substance-Related Disorders, etc.. This is from the DSM-IV. Please stop stating things as fact when they are not.
Tangential thought...tangential thread. just saying.

Does the person care about your mumbo jumbo?
I know I don't ...
What difference does it make to them? The suffering,
they want help before they hurt themselves or others...

Semantics again...
I was asked what I propose to do to help those with mental issues
and I came up with a solution of help.
All I hear is a bunch of crap on what to label someone.


I'll play along too...
young man deep in depression from the overuse of illegal sought
prescription drugs, his body has been calling for something so long
he can't remenber when he ever felt right... even long before
the first pill.

He gets in his car... he's angry at the world at himself
he never does anything right. He's going to do this right though.

It is the wee hours of the morning, he pops his last pills...
downed with a half a bottle of Jack
and gets on the highway going in the wrong direction...
on purpose.

Young beautiful family, two beautiful children sleeping peacefully in the back seat
of the mini van, on their way to their first visit to Disneyworld,
the impact is horrifying, cars collide head on..
leaving teddy bears lying in blood on the ground. All five are dead.

Do we think this young man had mental issues?
Do we think he needed help?
Do we think he cared or the family cared what you were going to label him?

Do we think we could have changed this?

I do if some would get over themselves and care about people who are just people
who need help.

With all due respect, don't you talk to ME about my 'mumbo jumbo'. I have almost 8 years of post-secondary education in this field/area, and years of experience.. I did not invest that time (nor MONEY in student loans) because I don't care about that population. As usual, you turned what I said around into an argument regarding substance abuse, when that is not the question I asked you. I did not say that substance abuse was not a mental issue (or related), but it is NOT schizophrenia. And you make too many assumptions and you assume that nobody knows what he/she is talking about from firsthand experience (not to mention work-related or educational-related experience), and you are just wrong and need to step back and take a good look at yourself.
oh...and it's not a 'label' so much as a DIAGNOSIS...which is required for mental health care workers and health care workers in general to give care and decide upon a proper and helpful intervention.. the fact that you LABEL my references to actual diagnoses as listed in the DSM-IV 'mumbo jumbo' proves that you don't know what you're talking about.

EmBleve

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Pandora said:
This on the list to make a person who needs help crack I'm sure...
this the people others rely on to help keep the from cracking ...
no wonder the people with mental issues are losing it
unfrickinbelievable

Pandora said:
Does the person care about your mumbo jumbo?
I know I don't ...

Pandora said:
Semantics again...
I was asked what I propose to do to help those with mental issues
and I came up with a solution of help.
All I hear is a bunch of crap on what to label someone.

now you are just being incredibly disrespectful and rude. you should probably quit.

thank you Hugh. It's ridiculous, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who can see through that (and I'm sure we're not the only ones).