Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

PJ_Soul · August 2012

DS1119 wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

You can't look at these issues in such black and white terms

Sure I can. If the point for more strict gun control laws is to end death...start at the top. Cars not only kill more people overall compaered to guns not only by pure numbers but by percentage of population...ban the cars. I mean target the biggest problem first. Simple. Most people will be killed by cars this year....by far. Biggest percentage of premature deaths this year will be caused by cars this year by far again. Eliminate thesedeaths and then move on to problem number two. I believe guns are the number 7 killer in the US actually...and that includes legal and illegal firearms.

More regulations isn't reduce death in all areas. It's to reduce deaths caused by gunshot wounds.

... Why are you always laughing in this conversation? I'm not trying to say anything... I'm just having trouble reading your tone with all the laughing.

DS1119 · August 2012

PJ_Soul wrote:

I really don't see how the rules are more strict than for driving. In any case, the rules and regulations need to be more strict than they are now.

Really? Why and how? :corn:

DS1119 · August 2012

PJ_Soul wrote:

More regulations isn't reduce death in all areas. It's to reduce deaths caused by gunshot wounds.

... Why are you always laughing in this conversation? I'm not trying to say anything... I'm just having trouble reading your tone with all the laughing.

I laugh because antigun people in this country and then pretty much the whole outside world blames the violence that happens here on guns. It's the ILLEGAL guns that are an issue....not the LEGAL ones. If someone honestly believes that if all LEGAL gun sales were cut off the violence would stop needs to have their head checked.

PJ_Soul · August 2012

DS1119 wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

More regulations isn't reduce death in all areas. It's to reduce deaths caused by gunshot wounds.

... Why are you always laughing in this conversation? I'm not trying to say anything... I'm just having trouble reading your tone with all the laughing.

I laugh because antigun people in this country and then pretty much the whole outside world blames the violence that happens here on guns. It's the ILLEGAL guns that are an issue....not the LEGAL ones. If someone honestly believes that if all LEGAL gun sales were cut off the violence would stop needs to have their head checked.

As mentioned many times already, most illegal guns start off as legal guns. And most a cidental shootings are from legal guns. And apparently 3/4 of mass shootings are committed with legal guns.

DS1119 · August 2012

PJ_Soul wrote:

As mentioned many times already, most illegal guns start off as legal guns. And most a cidental shootings are from legal guns. And apparently 3/4 of mass shootings are committed with legal guns.

Of course all illegal guns start off as legal guns not most. :? :fp: There aren't illegal gun factories worldwide.

By taking LEGAL firearms from US citiznes hands solves nothing. Last time I checked there's gun violence in every country. And that 3/4 stat is highly maipulated. HIGHLY MANIPULATED! How does anyone explain the "mass" shootings in countries where there are no firearms?

Probably blame it on the US I'm sure?! :fp:

Zoso · August 2012

DS1119 wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

As mentioned many times already, most illegal guns start off as legal guns. And most a cidental shootings are from legal guns. And apparently 3/4 of mass shootings are committed with legal guns.

Of course all illegal guns start off as legal guns not most. :? :fp: There aren't illegal gun factories worldwide. By taking LEGAL firearms from US citiznes hands solves nothing. Last time I checked there's gun violence in every country. And that 3/4 stat is highly maipulated. HIGHLY MANIPULATED! How does anyone explain the "mass" shootings in countries where there are no firearms? Probably blame it on the US I'm sure?! :fp:

the middle east aside, what mass shootings in other countries? the one and only one in Australia (before laws were changed), the one in Scotland and the recent one in Norway? That's not many.

pandora · August 2012

dimitrispearljam wrote:

thats the problem my friend..good question
there is no magic solution...
the goal here to limit down the violence..
do u think that having more guns will solve the problem?no way..
probably more more not responsible people will own guns..
i know one thng for sure..

someone want to do bad...wanna hurt someone ..he will do it..
no system cant stop him..cameras?police?..
how can u stop someone right now at his garage that he load his gun and he will go out
to robe,kill,rape,the first victim he will find on his way??
you cant..
if criminals lets us know before they act,as a society we will be ready
police,citizen..all..

the only way i see is to try to create better life,better future ,so people having hope.
will take time..i know..but sure,all become Rambo isnt a solution..
this is for hollywood..

for me heroes in life is the ones that from nothing,create something good..
is the people that raise their families,try to do good,even when they are poor.
and have dignity...
if u want to play the sherriff,join police force...
guns dont help..revenge never helps...

and another thing...

u know anyone that "protect"him self and shoot someone and kill him??

the one i know,taking alot of pills for sleep at nights..

so Miss Ruby, an 89 year old woman, is now Rambo... :fp:

come on she is a little old lady...
someone's Great Grandma who refused to allow herself to be a victim.

Just regular people using their right to life and their right to protect it.
Nothing Rambo about that.

I've been called sensational and emotional, this it is a topic that requires feeling...
no cold hearts here, feel it! I do each time someone is victimized
like the imaginary scenario I created to tug the heart ...
a girlfriend's life being abused and taken. Feel it!

No clinical mumbo jumbo just step in the shoes of Miss Ruby,
Should she not be allowed to attempt to save her own life?
You would have no gun for her or Miss Ruby?

Gun opponents can not answer that real life question or won't.
What blood will be on their hands when they take away someone's else's
right to protect themselves? Would that be Miss Ruby's life?
And what right do they have to do that

I've read the terribly insensitive posts joking about those who live in violence,
like its not happening, well it is.
Violence happens in people neighborhoods, to their loved ones, to them.
Maybe not the gun opponents neighborhoods but others live it.

Those who don't want to own guns ...
is this because they don't need them? then imposing that upon other's rights?
They just need to lock their doors at night. :? ...
guess no home invasions where they live. Good for them,
others are living in real life danger.

Well crime has moved to my area, crime branching out to where the goods are,
Criminals who could care less about my life or their own, the devaluation of life
of the next generation.

I am glad my neighbor was armed and protected himself, his wife and his home.
Gun opponents would have had him beaten and left for dead or worse...
dead dead.

And in doing so give the bad guys that much more power yep! that's just what they need
to continue their lives of feeding on the good law abiding folk.
Absolutely ridiculous! It is mind boggling!

comebackgirl · August 2012

DS1119 wrote:

...and rules and regulations for legally owning a firearm have changed too! They're more strict than ownig a car...a much more dangerous "weapon" ( that the numbers already support.)

And so they should probably continue to evolve.

dimitrispearljam · August 2012

pandora wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

thats the problem my friend..good question
there is no magic solution...
the goal here to limit down the violence..
do u think that having more guns will solve the problem?no way..
probably more more not responsible people will own guns..
i know one thng for sure..

someone want to do bad...wanna hurt someone ..he will do it..
no system cant stop him..cameras?police?..
how can u stop someone right now at his garage that he load his gun and he will go out
to robe,kill,rape,the first victim he will find on his way??
you cant..
if criminals lets us know before they act,as a society we will be ready
police,citizen..all..

the only way i see is to try to create better life,better future ,so people having hope.
will take time..i know..but sure,all become Rambo isnt a solution..
this is for hollywood..

for me heroes in life is the ones that from nothing,create something good..
is the people that raise their families,try to do good,even when they are poor.
and have dignity...
if u want to play the sherriff,join police force...
guns dont help..revenge never helps...

and another thing...

u know anyone that "protect"him self and shoot someone and kill him??

the one i know,taking alot of pills for sleep at nights..

so Miss Ruby, an 89 year old woman, is now Rambo... :fp:

come on she is a little old lady...
someone's Great Grandma who refused to allow herself to be a victim.

Just regular people using their right to life and their right to protect it.
Nothing Rambo about that.

I've been called sensational and emotional, this it is a topic that requires feeling...
no cold hearts here, feel it! I do each time someone is victimized
like the imaginary scenario I created to tug the heart ...
a girlfriend's life being abused and taken. Feel it!

No clinical mumbo jumbo just step in the shoes of Miss Ruby,
Should she not be allowed to attempt to save her own life?
You would have no gun for her or Miss Ruby?

Gun opponents can not answer that real life question or won't.
What blood will be on their hands when they take away someone's else's
right to protect themselves? Would that be Miss Ruby's life?
And what right do they have to do that

I've read the terribly insensitive posts joking about those who live in violence,
like its not happening, well it is.
Violence happens in people neighborhoods, to their loved ones, to them.
Maybe not the gun opponents neighborhoods but others live it.

Those who don't want to own guns ...
is this because they don't need them? then imposing that upon other's rights?
They just need to lock their doors at night. :? ...
guess no home invasions where they live. Good for them,
others are living in real life danger.

Well crime has moved to my area, crime branching out to where the goods are,
Criminals who could care less about my life or their own, the devaluation of life
of the next generation.

I am glad my neighbor was armed and protected himself, his wife and his home.
Gun opponents would have had him beaten and left for dead or worse...
dead dead.

And in doing so give the bad guys that much more power yep! that's just what they need
to continue their lives of feeding on the good law abiding folk.
Absolutely ridiculous! It is mind boggling!

i respect older people..they have experience and talk for what they lived
here in grece,old people says:
better 100 guilty out of prison,than 1 innocent inside..
same as with criminal
better 100 bad guys gate away with their crimes,than one good guy pays..
and i mean...
89 years old..how is her health?her vision??
her memory?
can u quarantee that next week,she will remember where she hide her gun??
and what if her 10 years old grandchild find it...??
they dont let her drive,cos she is old....and let her buy guns like gums....
unreal...

pandora · August 2012

dimitrispearljam wrote:

pandora wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

thats the problem my friend..good question
there is no magic solution...
the goal here to limit down the violence..
do u think that having more guns will solve the problem?no way..
probably more more not responsible people will own guns..
i know one thng for sure..

someone want to do bad...wanna hurt someone ..he will do it..
no system cant stop him..cameras?police?..
how can u stop someone right now at his garage that he load his gun and he will go out
to robe,kill,rape,the first victim he will find on his way??
you cant..
if criminals lets us know before they act,as a society we will be ready
police,citizen..all..

the only way i see is to try to create better life,better future ,so people having hope.
will take time..i know..but sure,all become Rambo isnt a solution..
this is for hollywood..

for me heroes in life is the ones that from nothing,create something good..
is the people that raise their families,try to do good,even when they are poor.
and have dignity...
if u want to play the sherriff,join police force...
guns dont help..revenge never helps...

and another thing...

u know anyone that "protect"him self and shoot someone and kill him??

the one i know,taking alot of pills for sleep at nights..

so Miss Ruby, an 89 year old woman, is now Rambo... :fp:

come on she is a little old lady...
someone's Great Grandma who refused to allow herself to be a victim.

Just regular people using their right to life and their right to protect it.
Nothing Rambo about that.

I've been called sensational and emotional, this it is a topic that requires feeling...
no cold hearts here, feel it! I do each time someone is victimized
like the imaginary scenario I created to tug the heart ...
a girlfriend's life being abused and taken. Feel it!

No clinical mumbo jumbo just step in the shoes of Miss Ruby,
Should she not be allowed to attempt to save her own life?
You would have no gun for her or Miss Ruby?

Gun opponents can not answer that real life question or won't.
What blood will be on their hands when they take away someone's else's
right to protect themselves? Would that be Miss Ruby's life?
And what right do they have to do that

I've read the terribly insensitive posts joking about those who live in violence,
like its not happening, well it is.
Violence happens in people neighborhoods, to their loved ones, to them.
Maybe not the gun opponents neighborhoods but others live it.

Those who don't want to own guns ...
is this because they don't need them? then imposing that upon other's rights?
They just need to lock their doors at night. :? ...
guess no home invasions where they live. Good for them,
others are living in real life danger.

Well crime has moved to my area, crime branching out to where the goods are,
Criminals who could care less about my life or their own, the devaluation of life
of the next generation.

I am glad my neighbor was armed and protected himself, his wife and his home.
Gun opponents would have had him beaten and left for dead or worse...
dead dead.

And in doing so give the bad guys that much more power yep! that's just what they need
to continue their lives of feeding on the good law abiding folk.
Absolutely ridiculous! It is mind boggling!

i respect older people..they have experience and talk for what they lived
here in grece,old people says:
better 100 guilty out of prison,than 1 innocent inside..
same as with criminal
better 100 bad guys gate away with their crimes,than one good guy pays..
and i mean...
89 years old..how is her health?her vision??
her memory?
can u quarantee that next week,she will remember where she hide her gun??
and what if her 10 years old grandchild find it...??
they dont let her drive,cos she is old....and let her buy guns like gums....
unreal...

So this is now all about her and her competency ? Poor Miss Ruby can't get a break.
Obviously she is competent enough to get two bad guys off the street and save her own life
in the process.

So would you take away the gun that saved her life?
Would you have Miss Ruby's blood on your hands?
Could you tell that to her loved ones?
Say it to her face?

This is real... real life, not some idyllic wanna be place where no one lives
in danger, where all we must do is lock a door...

they busted down Miss Ruby's door....
she stopped two bad guys but can the gun opponents say kudos Miss Ruby!
you done good, they are on their way to prison. Two less thugs to
victimize more people.

No ...
all they can do is give senseless what ifs'...

The what if she had no gun ...
that is the really horrible scenario...

chadwick · August 2012

:yawn:
goodnight 8:36am

y'all get after it very early in the day. if only congress worked as hard as y'all at debating/arguing things would probably maybe get done. so i ask... are y'all getting anywhere over here tossing the gun laws back and forth.

nicely done...

btw, who is this poor misses ruby i keep reading about in your posts, pand? can you direct me to the story on her and whatever it is that she has done with a gun?

dimitrispearljam · August 2012

pandora wrote:

So this is now all about her and her competency ? Poor Miss Ruby can't get a break.
Obviously she is competent enough to get two bad guys off the street and save her own life
in the process.

So would you take away the gun that saved her life?
Would you have Miss Ruby's blood on your hands?
Could you tell that to her loved ones?
Say it to her face?

This is real... real life, not some idyllic wanna be place where no one lives
in danger, where all we must do is lock a door...

they busted down Miss Ruby's door....
she stopped two bad guys but can the gun opponents say kudos Miss Ruby!
you done good, they are on their way to prison. Two less thugs to
victimize more people.

No ...
all they can do is give senseless what ifs'...

The what if she had no gun ...
that is the really horrible scenario...

Pandora,miss ruby isnt a base or exable to talk..and be sure,i m very sensitive about people and life
same mister antonis,an old guy a corner from my house ,78 years old,he left his shot gun on the table after hunting,his 11 years old grandchild take it to play,and shot his 7 years old brother..
no if...i was there..
and i dont get "that blood on my hands..isnt my opinion that try to kill miss ruby
guns are dangerous....especially to people dont have a clue how it works or trained..
seems that usa guns protect people,and at greece kill people..
must be cos of the different hemisphere

redrock · August 2012

Damn... such drama again. Impossible to have a reasoned, proper debate here.

Good for Miss Ruby - can we move on now? Miss Ruby was probably never in 'grave' danger. Two unarmed petty thieves KNOCKED three times at her door, waiting before they came in, expecting an empty house. They are the type of burglars that would not enter a home if they heard noise or someone shouted back at them. No way diminishing Ruby Hodge's courage but please... let's not have so much histrionics around this.

Cold hearts, blood on their hands, senseless, insensitive posts (like it's not happening :? ) Please... Can we be done with this melodramatic rhetoric and maybe 'read' (really 'read') what people are saying instead of going off on one tangent over and over again?

Dimi's story - Mr Antonis. He has lived it, seen it. A real story - a hundred of those for each 'Ruby Hodge' story. Here three lives shattered - one 7 year old dead, one 11 brother and one 78 grand-father scarred for life, never being able to forgive themselves (not mentioning the rest of the family). All that because of a loaded weapon left within reach (just like Hodge's loaded gun under her pillow).

Dimi made very good observations in the post with regards to addressing the root of the problem, ie help create a better life for a better future, hope. Help bring people 'up' - not leaving them so disillusioned that one thinks crime/violence is their only way out. What about elaborating on this? How try to improve on the ROOT of the problem (which goes beyond the ease of acquiring firearms).

Zoso · August 2012

The old lady story is one example of guns being a protector.. for every story like that you could find 10 that detail gun injuries and deaths from accidents using guns etc.

comebackgirl · August 2012

redrock wrote:

Damn... such drama again. Impossible to have a reasoned, proper debate here.

Good for Miss Ruby - can we move on now? Miss Ruby was probably never in 'grave' danger. Two unarmed petty thieves KNOCKED three times at her door, waiting before they came in, expecting an empty house. They are the type of burglars that would not enter a home if they heard noise or someone shouted back at them. No way diminishing Ruby Hodge's courage but please... let's not have so much histrionics around this.

Cold hearts, blood on their hands, senseless, insensitive posts (like it's not happening :? ) Please... Can we be done with this melodramatic rhetoric and maybe 'read' (really 'read') what people are saying instead of going off on one tangent over and over again?

Dimi's story - Mr Antonis. He has lived it, seen it. A real story - a hundred of those for each 'Ruby Hodge' story. Here three lives shattered - one 7 year old dead, one 11 brother and one 78 grand-father scarred for life, never being able to forgive themselves (not mentioning the rest of the family). All that because of a loaded weapon left within reach (just like Hodge's loaded gun under her pillow).

Dimi made very good observations in the post with regards to addressing the root of the problem, ie help create a better life for a better future, hope.

I too am ready to move beyond the Miss Ruby story. I'm glad no further harm came to her.

The talk of "blood on your hands" is again laying blame on people who aren't the perpetrators, or even bystanders in this situation. Let's keep the blame with the people who perpetrate the crimes.

We all want our communities to be safer; we just have different ideas about how to do that. A good healthy discussion and debate is a positive thing. I love hearing other people's points of view. I don't think it's helpful, however, to lay blame where it doesn't belong. That is distracting.

Dimi's post points to the fact that there are many accidents that happen as a result of guns.

Zoso · August 2012

comebackgirl wrote:

redrock wrote:

Damn... such drama again. Impossible to have a reasoned, proper debate here.

Good for Miss Ruby - can we move on now? Miss Ruby was probably never in 'grave' danger. Two unarmed petty thieves KNOCKED three times at her door, waiting before they came in, expecting an empty house. They are the type of burglars that would not enter a home if they heard noise or someone shouted back at them. No way diminishing Ruby Hodge's courage but please... let's not have so much histrionics around this.

Cold hearts, blood on their hands, senseless, insensitive posts (like it's not happening :? ) Please... Can we be done with this melodramatic rhetoric and maybe 'read' (really 'read') what people are saying instead of going off on one tangent over and over again?

Dimi's story - Mr Antonis. He has lived it, seen it. A real story - a hundred of those for each 'Ruby Hodge' story. Here three lives shattered - one 7 year old dead, one 11 brother and one 78 grand-father scarred for life, never being able to forgive themselves (not mentioning the rest of the family). All that because of a loaded weapon left within reach (just like Hodge's loaded gun under her pillow).

Dimi made very good observations in the post with regards to addressing the root of the problem, ie help create a better life for a better future, hope.

I too am ready to move beyond the Miss Ruby story. I'm glad no further harm came to her.

The talk of "blood on your hands" is again laying blame on people who aren't the perpetrators, or even bystanders in this situation. Let's keep the blame with the people who perpetrate the crimes.

We all want our communities to be safer; we just have different ideas about how to do that. A good healthy discussion and debate is a positive thing. I love hearing other people's points of view. I don't think it's helpful, however, to lay blame where it doesn't belong. That is distracting.

Dimi's post points to the fact that there are many accidents that happen as a result of guns.

ah no it's the people's fault in the movies who weren't armed.. it's their fault they couldn't defend themselves. It would have been like in the street fight scene in heat. I want to walk around with a semi automatic.. I would feel so tough and just in case someone tries to come at me I will be able to defend myself Zimmerman style.

comebackgirl · August 2012

Zoso wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

redrock wrote:

Damn... such drama again. Impossible to have a reasoned, proper debate here.

Good for Miss Ruby - can we move on now? Miss Ruby was probably never in 'grave' danger. Two unarmed petty thieves KNOCKED three times at her door, waiting before they came in, expecting an empty house. They are the type of burglars that would not enter a home if they heard noise or someone shouted back at them. No way diminishing Ruby Hodge's courage but please... let's not have so much histrionics around this.

Cold hearts, blood on their hands, senseless, insensitive posts (like it's not happening :? ) Please... Can we be done with this melodramatic rhetoric and maybe 'read' (really 'read') what people are saying instead of going off on one tangent over and over again?

Dimi's story - Mr Antonis. He has lived it, seen it. A real story - a hundred of those for each 'Ruby Hodge' story. Here three lives shattered - one 7 year old dead, one 11 brother and one 78 grand-father scarred for life, never being able to forgive themselves (not mentioning the rest of the family). All that because of a loaded weapon left within reach (just like Hodge's loaded gun under her pillow).

Dimi made very good observations in the post with regards to addressing the root of the problem, ie help create a better life for a better future, hope.

I too am ready to move beyond the Miss Ruby story. I'm glad no further harm came to her.

The talk of "blood on your hands" is again laying blame on people who aren't the perpetrators, or even bystanders in this situation. Let's keep the blame with the people who perpetrate the crimes.

We all want our communities to be safer; we just have different ideas about how to do that. A good healthy discussion and debate is a positive thing. I love hearing other people's points of view. I don't think it's helpful, however, to lay blame where it doesn't belong. That is distracting.

Dimi's post points to the fact that there are many accidents that happen as a result of guns.

ah no it's the people's fault in the movies who weren't armed.. it's their fault they couldn't defend themselves. It would have been like in the street fight scene in heat. I want to walk around with a semi automatic.. I would feel so tough and just in case someone tries to come at me I will be able to defend myself Zimmerman style.

Please...you'd accidentally shoot me in the shoe and I'd have to beat you with the butt of the gun

I advise agains this.

peacefrompaul · August 2012

dimitrispearljam wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i dont know..how i ll react,or how a girl will react..
having a gun will not change anything..probably ill shoot myself or my girlfriend cos of the panic of the attack,or ill forget i have a gun..or ill piss him more ill put the gun out and he will kill us,when he has in mind only to steal our money..
who knows..
and the normal is to go the funeral ill guess..ill not collect dna from crime scene,
its police job....
really,a simple civilian cant have answers to this things..
the suprise of attacking u whe n u dont expect it,is the same having a gun or not.
thats why policeman trained for this situation.

So what's the solution, D? More police? Cameras everywhere?

thats the problem my friend..good question
there is no magic solution...
the goal here to limit down the violence..
do u think that having more guns will solve the problem?no way..
probably more more not responsible people will own guns..
i know one thng for sure..

someone want to do bad...wanna hurt someone ..he will do it..
no system cant stop him..cameras?police?..
how can u stop someone right now at his garage that he load his gun and he will go out
to robe,kill,rape,the first victim he will find on his way??
you cant..
if criminals lets us know before they act,as a society we will be ready
police,citizen..all..

the only way i see is to try to create better life,better future ,so people having hope.
will take time..i know..but sure,all become Rambo isnt a solution..
this is for hollywood..

for me heroes in life is the ones that from nothing,create something good..
is the people that raise their families,try to do good,even when they are poor.
and have dignity...
if u want to play the sherriff,join police force...
guns dont help..revenge never helps...

and another thing...

u know anyone that "protect"him self and shoot someone and kill him??

the one i know,taking alot of pills for sleep at nights..

Thanks

hedonist · August 2012

redrock wrote:

Damn... such drama again. Impossible to have a reasoned, proper debate here.

After reading through the last several pages of this - phew! And...no shit, redrock

Bless you and the voices of reason in this thread.

redrock · August 2012

hedonist wrote:

And...no shit, redrock .

Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

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