Yes they can if they have a parents permission. They also must keep the gun at home
unloaded unless engaged in lawful activities.
It is also unlawful to sell the gun to a teen without a parents permission.
Seems like very similar laws are in place.
First of all CBG.. you're 38 and you're still being ID'd to buy alcohol... kudos to you!
Second... as mentioned in a previous post, one can buy a firearm (excluding handguns) from an unlicensed vendor (eg the internet) at whatever age WITHOUT parent's permission. Doesn't even have to be a kid with 'intention'. Could just be a kid wanting to brag a bit to his friends ('hey guys.. look what I've got) and boom! Accident.
I can buy child pornography off the internet if I was so inclined as well. Fireworks. Cigarettes. Stolen cars. Stolen electronics. Fuck...if I look hard enough I can buy hand grenades too. Doesn't matter what age I am either. What does this have to do with legally obtained firearms in the US? :?
Sounds like you need to go to the shooting range and get some training...you wouldnt want your weapon to go off prematurely if you have a hair-pin trigger. Safety first Norm!
the problem is the only legal 'shooting ranges' are in nevada...ROAD TRIP!! :P
Far from true. I have probably five within walking distance of my house. :?
Yes they can if they have a parents permission. They also must keep the gun at home
unloaded unless engaged in lawful activities.
It is also unlawful to sell the gun to a teen without a parents permission.
Seems like very similar laws are in place.
First of all CBG.. you're 38 and you're still being ID'd to buy alcohol... kudos to you!
Second... as mentioned in a previous post, one can buy a firearm (excluding handguns) from an unlicensed vendor (eg the internet) at whatever age WITHOUT parent's permission. Doesn't even have to be a kid with 'intention'. Could just be a kid wanting to brag a bit to his friends ('hey guys.. look what I've got) and boom! Accident.
I can buy child pornography off the internet if I was so inclined as well. Fireworks. Cigarettes. Stolen cars. Stolen electronics. Fuck...if I look hard enough I can buy hand grenades too. Doesn't matter what age I am either. What does this have to do with legally obtained firearms in the US? :?
Yes they can if they have a parents permission. They also must keep the gun at home
unloaded unless engaged in lawful activities.
It is also unlawful to sell the gun to a teen without a parents permission.
Seems like very similar laws are in place.
First of all CBG.. you're 38 and you're still being ID'd to buy alcohol... kudos to you!
Second... as mentioned in a previous post, one can buy a firearm (excluding handguns) from an unlicensed vendor (eg the internet) at whatever age WITHOUT parent's permission. Doesn't even have to be a kid with 'intention'. Could just be a kid wanting to brag a bit to his friends ('hey guys.. look what I've got) and boom! Accident.
I can buy child pornography off the internet if I was so inclined as well.
Why don't you go ahead and do it this morning...and we'll sit here and wait to see what happens Go on...for the sake of an experiment...
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Sounds like you need to go to the shooting range and get some training...you wouldnt want your weapon to go off prematurely if you have a hair-pin trigger. Safety first Norm!
the problem is the only legal 'shooting ranges' are in nevada...ROAD TRIP!! :P
Far from true. I have probably five within walking distance of my house. :?
you might need to go back and read a little bit to see what he was actually talking about. We were using "gun" as a euphemism at this point I mean the thread is beyond 100 pages and we're talking in circles...if this wasn't a virtual chat, someone would probably have pulled out...a gun...at this point :?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
you might need to go back and read a little bit to see what he was actually talking about. We were using "gun" as a euphemism at this point I mean the thread is beyond 100 pages and we're talking in circles...if this wasn't a virtual chat, someone would probably have pulled out...a gun...at this point :?
unless it was oneof the 75% OF LEGALLY obtained guns used in the now 57 or 58 mass shootings this country has seen in the last 30 years.
Gun control is all about saving lives right? I mean how many people died from smoking LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? How many people alone died from secondary smoke from LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? :fp: Shit, how many people in this country over the last 30 years were just killed over a pack of cigarettes? Like I said before...and now that a period of 30 years is brought up...I'm still waiting for the billions of stories to come out about firearms that are possessed or were possesed LEGALLY that WEREN't used in a crime. Something tells me I'll be waiting a while for those. :corn:
unless it was oneof the 75% OF LEGALLY obtained guns used in the now 57 or 58 mass shootings this country has seen in the last 30 years.
Gun control is all about saving lives right? I mean how many people died from smoking LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? How many people alone died from secondary smoke from LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? :fp: Shit, how many people in this country over the last 30 years were just killed over a pack of cigarettes? Like I said before...and now that a period of 30 years is brought up...I'm still waiting for the billions of stories to come out about firearms that are possessed or were possesed LEGALLY that WEREN't used in a crime. Something tells me I'll be waiting a while for those. :corn:
And just like the gun lobby the tobacco lobby spends millions to keep them legal and available.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
unless it was oneof the 75% OF LEGALLY obtained guns used in the now 57 or 58 mass shootings this country has seen in the last 30 years.
Gun control is all about saving lives right? I mean how many people died from smoking LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? How many people alone died from secondary smoke from LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? :fp: Shit, how many people in this country over the last 30 years were just killed over a pack of cigarettes? Like I said before...and now that a period of 30 years is brought up...I'm still waiting for the billions of stories to come out about firearms that are possessed or were possesed LEGALLY that WEREN't used in a crime. Something tells me I'll be waiting a while for those. :corn:
you'll not see stories such those because they havent affected the lives of others.
Cigs on the otherhand have been shown to affect the lives of more than just the smoker. To the point there are now laws against smoking indoors in a number of municipalities. Hell even hospitals say you cant even smoke on their property outside !!! Same with a Honda plant near here. No smoking on the grounds. Some companies wont even hire if you smoke.
But that isnt what this thread is about. Its about the legally obtained weapons used in mass shootings and what solutions can be had to help stem these senseless tragidies.
How a\bout offering up a solution rather than a useless analogy that has little to nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
unless it was oneof the 75% OF LEGALLY obtained guns used in the now 57 or 58 mass shootings this country has seen in the last 30 years.
Gun control is all about saving lives right? I mean how many people died from smoking LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? How many people alone died from secondary smoke from LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? :fp: Shit, how many people in this country over the last 30 years were just killed over a pack of cigarettes? Like I said before...and now that a period of 30 years is brought up...I'm still waiting for the billions of stories to come out about firearms that are possessed or were possesed LEGALLY that WEREN't used in a crime. Something tells me I'll be waiting a while for those. :corn:
DS, while I agree that cigarettes are harmful, not to mention goofy... with all respect- you are normally well-worded on this forum- this analogy is really, really weak. But I can understand why you offered the attempt. What else can you really offer to insist that gun ownership and the types of weapons one can own in America is a good thing?
The very argument you have presented provides support for improved legislation surrounding gun ownership. With increasing frequency, cigarettes are banned in public places and efforts have been made to restrict sales to minors. It was likely that smokers, prior to the introduction of such legislation, were in an uproar, "What do you mean I have to go stand over there to smoke my cigarette? I want to do it right at my table. Isn't this America? I have rights!" No sir. No you don't. Your stinky, foul, disgusting cancer stick infringes on others' rights.
A neutral eye would have to say, after digesting the 109 pages this thread has spawn, that the gun restriction side of this discussion has thundered the pro-gun ownership side. It's not even close. To keep on insisting that guns and assault rifles must be a choice that is preserved is narrow-minded.
If I have it straight... the following has basically been offered to justify the need for guns and preserve the current way of life for gun lovers:
1. Guns offer protection from: an invading army, a tyrannical government, dogs and twitchy cops (lol!), home invaders, and armed assailants in theaters (if armed you can quickly shoot the silhouetted figure before he shoots you).
2. Analogies that show guns aren't as dangerous as other things in society: cigarettes are more deadly, cars are death machines, etc.
3. States with strict gun laws aren't successful and definitively prove restrictions don't work (despite the fact that the following question was not answered: how can such restrictions achieve their desired effect when neighbouring states do not offer the same laws- making the guns accessible, but just kind of a pain in the ass to get?).
Forgive me if I missed anything in that breakdown, but in my opinion, these arguments simply don't justify allowing any idiot to walk to his neighbourhood gun store, flash his costco card, pick up a rifle, a shitload of ammo, and a cool armoured outfit so that he can do what he pleases with his new toy.
Well thank goodness for that. The thing is, the easy access of firearms online with no checks as redrock saw, means there's very little regulation in a lot of states. There is strong regulation on everything else you stated. Most people wouldn't even attempt to download child pornography even as an experiment because they know what would likely happen. Accessing guns online is easily done with little to no checks. That's frightening.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
but because I haven't I don't judge others based on that...
I respect them and how they live their lives, though it might not be my way,
not trying to take basic rights away from them.
hey that movie J Edgar Hoover... speaking of guns, laws and crime...
wow that was one of the best movies I have ever seen!
If I have it straight... the following has basically been offered to justify the need for guns and preserve the current way of life for gun lovers:
1. Guns offer protection from: an invading army, a tyrannical government, dogs and twitchy cops (lol!), home invaders, and armed assailants in theaters (if armed you can quickly shoot the silhouetted figure before he shoots you).
2. Analogies that show guns aren't as dangerous as other things in society: cigarettes are more deadly, cars are death machines, etc.
3. States with strict gun laws aren't successful and definitively prove restrictions don't work (despite the fact that the following question was not answered: how can such restrictions achieve their desired effect when neighbouring states do not offer the same laws- making the guns accessible, but just kind of a pain in the ass to get?).
Forgive me if I missed anything in that breakdown, but in my opinion, these arguments simply don't justify allowing any idiot to walk to his neighbourhood gun store, flash his costco card, pick up a rifle, a shitload of ammo, and a cool armoured outfit so that he can do what he pleases with his new toy.
say what? not dogs!!! :evil:
how the cig thing came up if you read back
was how an underage person can buy a rifle on line with their parents permission
and kids can't walk into a store and buy them cause they are carded.
If they tried to walk in a store and buy a firearm the same would happen.
And of course cigs are much more dangerous to teens because of the sheer numbers
smoking compared to those who buy guns legally with their parents permission.
And cigs are cancer sticks not really ever used responsibly because they will eventually kill.
A lady with her elderly grandmother returns to her home yesterday to find a burglary
in process. This a fine upscale neighborhood south of us.
Yes the doors were locked, it was the middle of the day.
Two young thugs run from the house while one shoots the gun at the defenseless
40 year old woman ... why? no threat, they are getting away...
why because he is a piece of shit who cares nothing about life.
She's dead... dead. Sweet women, neighbors and friends describe her as.
She was 40 and now dead. Senseless.
I bet a number of women have or will go out to buy a gun because of this.
Rightfully so.
Bad guys are getting badder and they got guns! Unless you want to be a victim...
and maybe a dead victim... protect yourself, it is our basic right.
A lady with her elderly grandmother returns to her home yesterday to find a burglary
in process. This a fine upscale neighborhood south of us.
Yes the doors were locked, it was the middle of the day.
Two young thugs run from the house while one shoots the gun at the defenseless
40 year old woman ... why? no threat, they are getting away...
why because he is a piece of shit who cares nothing about life.
She's dead... dead. Sweet women, neighbors and friends describe her as.
She was 40 and now dead. Senseless.
I bet a number of women have or will go out to buy a gun because of this.
Rightfully so.
Bad guys are getting badder and they got guns! Unless you want to be a victim...
and maybe a dead victim... protect yourself, it is our basic right.
thats a very sad story.. it's a shame crime in this country is on the rise and their is even a need for people to carry guns in their homes in case of a crime like this. Pandora you need to visit somewhere like Australia and see a country that isn't controlled by crime and fear... you would like that.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Thank you for googling definitions, I know you are good at that - but definitions should really be in context to have any real meaning. I know you are aware of this
I really like the 'law abiding' one... "adhering more or less strictly to the laws "
are you saying someone would copy & paste a complete list of definitions & things all bunk ass and lazy like without using their own words and stuff? does this mean the brain power lacks and that the (possibly) uneducated individual just might be out of their frickin mind, yes/no?
I had answered your questions a number of times by saying google it...
I was signing out and figured one last time...
to me they are four words there that speak for themselves.
The definitions exactly pertains to what is meant by law abiding responsible gun owner
and when you google you will see safety courses offered, as I mentioned.
How much more explanation do you and others need? :fp:
Definitions straight from webster pretty much get the point across ...
well unless someone refuses to understand it.
Chadwick are you being disrespectful, rude and insulting to someone?
A lady with her elderly grandmother returns to her home yesterday to find a burglary
in process. This a fine upscale neighborhood south of us.
Yes the doors were locked, it was the middle of the day.
Two young thugs run from the house while one shoots the gun at the defenseless
40 year old woman ... why? no threat, they are getting away...
why because he is a piece of shit who cares nothing about life.
She's dead... dead. Sweet women, neighbors and friends describe her as.
She was 40 and now dead. Senseless.
I bet a number of women have or will go out to buy a gun because of this.
Rightfully so.
Bad guys are getting badder and they got guns! Unless you want to be a victim...
and maybe a dead victim... protect yourself, it is our basic right.
thats a very sad story.. it's a shame crime in this country is on the rise and their is even a need for people to carry guns in their homes in case of a crime like this. Pandora you need to visit somewhere like Australia and see a country that isn't controlled by crime and fear... you would like that.
I would love to come see New Zealand and Australia
but unfortunately my body will not allow that anymore.
Fear comes from not being prepared, from weakness. Some must live in fear
because of the neighborhoods though.
Crime comes from many factors and is a worldwide problem.
After watching J Edgar Hoover last night I appreciate crime and it's history,
and that of the crime fighters as well.
I hadn't given that much thought. Bad guys been around a long time indeed.
A lady with her elderly grandmother returns to her home yesterday to find a burglary
in process. This a fine upscale neighborhood south of us.
Yes the doors were locked, it was the middle of the day.
Two young thugs run from the house while one shoots the gun at the defenseless
40 year old woman ... why? no threat, they are getting away...
why because he is a piece of shit who cares nothing about life.
She's dead... dead. Sweet women, neighbors and friends describe her as.
She was 40 and now dead. Senseless.
I bet a number of women have or will go out to buy a gun because of this.
Rightfully so.
Bad guys are getting badder and they got guns! Unless you want to be a victim...
and maybe a dead victim... protect yourself, it is our basic right.
thats a very sad story.. it's a shame crime in this country is on the rise and their is even a need for people to carry guns in their homes in case of a crime like this. Pandora you need to visit somewhere like Australia and see a country that isn't controlled by crime and fear... you would like that.
I would love to come see New Zealand and Australia
but unfortunately my body will not allow that anymore.
Fear comes from not being prepared, from weakness. Some must live in fear
because of the neighborhoods though.
Crime comes from many factors and is a worldwide problem.
After watching J Edgar Hoover last night I appreciate crime and it's history,
and that of the crime fighters as well.
I hadn't given that much thought. Bad guys been around a long time indeed.
I still think buying a gun is living in fear and a very irrational thing to do when gun accidents occur etc. Sure if this person had a gun that was tragically gunned down MAY have saved her life but it may have not also.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
A lady with her elderly grandmother returns to her home yesterday to find a burglary
in process. This a fine upscale neighborhood south of us.
Yes the doors were locked, it was the middle of the day.
Two young thugs run from the house while one shoots the gun at the defenseless
40 year old woman ... why? no threat, they are getting away...
why because he is a piece of shit who cares nothing about life.
She's dead... dead. Sweet women, neighbors and friends describe her as.
She was 40 and now dead. Senseless.
I bet a number of women have or will go out to buy a gun because of this.
Rightfully so.
Bad guys are getting badder and they got guns! Unless you want to be a victim...
and maybe a dead victim... protect yourself, it is our basic right.
Given minimal restrictions on access to weapons and the proliferation of guns in your country... I'm afraid you're right, Pandora. If you can't beat 'em... then you may as well join them! I'm serious when I say this. If your country refuses to address the problem and simply accepts some of these events as an unfortunate spinoff for the right you wish to maintain, then get yourself armed and ready!
Is there a better solution than this though?
Another question (can't help myself): if it is shown that this 'thug piece of shit' has a mental illness... would you have a change of heart towards him?
Given minimal restrictions on access to weapons and the proliferation of guns in your country... I'm afraid you're right, Pandora. If you can't beat 'em... then you may as well join them! I'm serious when I say this. If your country refuses to address the problem and simply accepts some of these events as an unfortunate spinoff for the right you wish to maintain, then get yourself armed and ready!
Is there a better solution than this though?
Another question (can't help myself): if it is shown that this 'thug piece of shit' has a mental illness... would you have a change of heart towards him?
Given minimal restrictions on access to weapons and the proliferation of guns in your country... I'm afraid you're right, Pandora. If you can't beat 'em... then you may as well join them! I'm serious when I say this. If your country refuses to address the problem and simply accepts some of these events as an unfortunate spinoff for the right you wish to maintain, then get yourself armed and ready!
Is there a better solution than this though?
Another question (can't help myself): if it is shown that this 'thug piece of shit' has a mental illness... would you have a change of heart towards him?
fantastic question
Yes, will there be ANY empathy if that criminal is deemed to have a mental illness even though at the moment he's considered by her a *thug piece of shit*?
peace
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Two young thugs run from the house while one shoots the gun at the defenseless
40 year old woman ... why? no threat, .
How would the burglar know? From what you are saying and what with everyone seemingly arming themselves and packing, he may have thought this woman might have produced a gun and tried to shoot him. That could also be an explanation. Pre-emptive strike. Vicious circle.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
was how an underage person can buy a rifle on line withtheir parents permission
and kids can't walk into a store and buy them cause they are carded..
Without - no questions asked. No questions REQUIRED BY LAW.
This is the part that has me in a quandry. It's not as if EVERY parent is going to be able to be on top of every purchase an underage teen will buy. This is TOO big a hole that a teen could purchase a rifle EVEN if it's for target shooting online WITHOUT any checks, this should NOT be. If there were just basic checks such as a registration, waiting period and a background check...where does these basic checks take away one's right to bear arms...WHERE?
What exactly is the RUSH to get your guns for protection, all I'm saying is keep it simple but just have some basic checks especially when dealing with gun purchases on the internet. I had no idea it was THAT easy to buy a rifle...get your credit card ready folks it is yours boom.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
A lady with her elderly grandmother returns to her home yesterday to find a burglary
in process. This a fine upscale neighborhood south of us.
Yes the doors were locked, it was the middle of the day.
Two young thugs run from the house while one shoots the gun at the defenseless
40 year old woman ... why? no threat, they are getting away...
why because he is a piece of shit who cares nothing about life.
She's dead... dead. Sweet women, neighbors and friends describe her as.
She was 40 and now dead. Senseless.
I bet a number of women have or will go out to buy a gun because of this.
Rightfully so.
Bad guys are getting badder and they got guns! Unless you want to be a victim...
and maybe a dead victim... protect yourself, it is our basic right.
thats a very sad story.. it's a shame crime in this country is on the rise and their is even a need for people to carry guns in their homes in case of a crime like this. Pandora you need to visit somewhere like Australia and see a country that isn't controlled by crime and fear... you would like that.
I would love to come see New Zealand and Australia
but unfortunately my body will not allow that anymore.
Fear comes from not being prepared, from weakness. Some must live in fear
because of the neighborhoods though.
Crime comes from many factors and is a worldwide problem.
After watching J Edgar Hoover last night I appreciate crime and it's history,
and that of the crime fighters as well.
I hadn't given that much thought. Bad guys been around a long time indeed.
I'd disagree with this. Being afraid doesn't come from being under-prepared and weak. Fear is the biological hard-wiring we all possess that alerts us to flee from dangerous situations. We would all feel fear when in danger. Some people's sense of vulnerability gets overblown and they see the potential for catastrophe and danger as greater than it actually is. The ironic thing is that the more people are exposed to danger, the less fear they feel. They get desensitized to it. So it's quite possible that someone living in a "dangerous" neighborhood may just view various threats as something they have to negotiate on a daily basis, whereas someone in a "safe" neighborhood, like the one described in the most recent incident, might quite possibly feel a great more fear and vulnerability on a daily basis. Toting a gun or not, they're actually probably a lot less "prepared" and a lot more fearful.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
The interesting thing is, that if you watch animals, you notice that most of them only become aggressive or attack when they feel cornered and afraid. That's my concern about more people being fed fear. The more we pump the idea of "fear" and lead people to believe they need to be armed and ready to attack at any moment, the more likely they will attack unnecessarily, as we've seen from some of the accident articles posted earlier in this thread.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
The bullets have not been mentioned so far in this thread to my recollection, but their design demands consideration and discussion as well.
With that said... if you're going to have guns to shoot people... you may as well have the bullets guaranteed to 'explode inside of people' (resulting in a much more desirable quantity of tissue damage).
Fuk me. It's just insane.
"We at Steelhawk strive for customer satisfaction and will sell no hollow-point bullet that will not produce a devastating effect within the body cavity. You can rest assured that when you buy Steelhawk... you have guaranteed an obliteration of your intended target's organs!"
Sheer insanity. The press conference is surreal to me- it reminds me of one that might have been on Starship Troopers. The 'effect' that has people rubbing their palms briskly together in anticipation of is one that will play out on a human being somewhere. We're okay with this?
I can understand such bullets being produced 'military grade' or 'police issue'... but if we let Joe Shmoe have his gun... do we have to give him access to such bullets as well?
Comments
Far from true. I have probably five within walking distance of my house. :?
True... it would all move to the deep web
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not my thing. Sorry to disappoint.
I did read it now. My mistake.
Gun control is all about saving lives right? I mean how many people died from smoking LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? How many people alone died from secondary smoke from LEGALLY obtained cigarettes over the last thirty years? :fp: Shit, how many people in this country over the last 30 years were just killed over a pack of cigarettes?
And just like the gun lobby the tobacco lobby spends millions to keep them legal and available.
Cigs on the otherhand have been shown to affect the lives of more than just the smoker. To the point there are now laws against smoking indoors in a number of municipalities. Hell even hospitals say you cant even smoke on their property outside !!! Same with a Honda plant near here. No smoking on the grounds. Some companies wont even hire if you smoke.
But that isnt what this thread is about. Its about the legally obtained weapons used in mass shootings and what solutions can be had to help stem these senseless tragidies.
How a\bout offering up a solution rather than a useless analogy that has little to nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
DS, while I agree that cigarettes are harmful, not to mention goofy... with all respect- you are normally well-worded on this forum- this analogy is really, really weak. But I can understand why you offered the attempt. What else can you really offer to insist that gun ownership and the types of weapons one can own in America is a good thing?
The very argument you have presented provides support for improved legislation surrounding gun ownership. With increasing frequency, cigarettes are banned in public places and efforts have been made to restrict sales to minors. It was likely that smokers, prior to the introduction of such legislation, were in an uproar, "What do you mean I have to go stand over there to smoke my cigarette? I want to do it right at my table. Isn't this America? I have rights!" No sir. No you don't. Your stinky, foul, disgusting cancer stick infringes on others' rights.
A neutral eye would have to say, after digesting the 109 pages this thread has spawn, that the gun restriction side of this discussion has thundered the pro-gun ownership side. It's not even close. To keep on insisting that guns and assault rifles must be a choice that is preserved is narrow-minded.
If I have it straight... the following has basically been offered to justify the need for guns and preserve the current way of life for gun lovers:
1. Guns offer protection from: an invading army, a tyrannical government, dogs and twitchy cops (lol!), home invaders, and armed assailants in theaters (if armed you can quickly shoot the silhouetted figure before he shoots you).
2. Analogies that show guns aren't as dangerous as other things in society: cigarettes are more deadly, cars are death machines, etc.
3. States with strict gun laws aren't successful and definitively prove restrictions don't work (despite the fact that the following question was not answered: how can such restrictions achieve their desired effect when neighbouring states do not offer the same laws- making the guns accessible, but just kind of a pain in the ass to get?).
Forgive me if I missed anything in that breakdown, but in my opinion, these arguments simply don't justify allowing any idiot to walk to his neighbourhood gun store, flash his costco card, pick up a rifle, a shitload of ammo, and a cool armoured outfit so that he can do what he pleases with his new toy.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I have never touched a gun ...
but because I haven't I don't judge others based on that...
I respect them and how they live their lives, though it might not be my way,
not trying to take basic rights away from them.
hey that movie J Edgar Hoover... speaking of guns, laws and crime...
wow that was one of the best movies I have ever seen!
how the cig thing came up if you read back
was how an underage person can buy a rifle on line with their parents permission
and kids can't walk into a store and buy them cause they are carded.
If they tried to walk in a store and buy a firearm the same would happen.
And of course cigs are much more dangerous to teens because of the sheer numbers
smoking compared to those who buy guns legally with their parents permission.
And cigs are cancer sticks not really ever used responsibly because they will eventually kill.
in process. This a fine upscale neighborhood south of us.
Yes the doors were locked, it was the middle of the day.
Two young thugs run from the house while one shoots the gun at the defenseless
40 year old woman ... why? no threat, they are getting away...
why because he is a piece of shit who cares nothing about life.
She's dead... dead. Sweet women, neighbors and friends describe her as.
She was 40 and now dead. Senseless.
I bet a number of women have or will go out to buy a gun because of this.
Rightfully so.
Bad guys are getting badder and they got guns! Unless you want to be a victim...
and maybe a dead victim... protect yourself, it is our basic right.
thats a very sad story.. it's a shame crime in this country is on the rise and their is even a need for people to carry guns in their homes in case of a crime like this. Pandora you need to visit somewhere like Australia and see a country that isn't controlled by crime and fear... you would like that.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
I was signing out and figured one last time...
to me they are four words there that speak for themselves.
The definitions exactly pertains to what is meant by law abiding responsible gun owner
and when you google you will see safety courses offered, as I mentioned.
How much more explanation do you and others need? :fp:
Definitions straight from webster pretty much get the point across ...
well unless someone refuses to understand it.
Chadwick are you being disrespectful, rude and insulting to someone?
:shock:
but unfortunately my body will not allow that anymore.
Fear comes from not being prepared, from weakness. Some must live in fear
because of the neighborhoods though.
Crime comes from many factors and is a worldwide problem.
After watching J Edgar Hoover last night I appreciate crime and it's history,
and that of the crime fighters as well.
I hadn't given that much thought. Bad guys been around a long time indeed.
I still think buying a gun is living in fear and a very irrational thing to do when gun accidents occur etc. Sure if this person had a gun that was tragically gunned down MAY have saved her life but it may have not also.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Given minimal restrictions on access to weapons and the proliferation of guns in your country... I'm afraid you're right, Pandora. If you can't beat 'em... then you may as well join them! I'm serious when I say this. If your country refuses to address the problem and simply accepts some of these events as an unfortunate spinoff for the right you wish to maintain, then get yourself armed and ready!
Is there a better solution than this though?
Another question (can't help myself): if it is shown that this 'thug piece of shit' has a mental illness... would you have a change of heart towards him?
Without - no questions asked. No questions REQUIRED BY LAW.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Yes, will there be ANY empathy if that criminal is deemed to have a mental illness even though at the moment he's considered by her a *thug piece of shit*?
peace
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
How would the burglar know? From what you are saying and what with everyone seemingly arming themselves and packing, he may have thought this woman might have produced a gun and tried to shoot him. That could also be an explanation. Pre-emptive strike. Vicious circle.
This is the part that has me in a quandry. It's not as if EVERY parent is going to be able to be on top of every purchase an underage teen will buy. This is TOO big a hole that a teen could purchase a rifle EVEN if it's for target shooting online WITHOUT any checks, this should NOT be. If there were just basic checks such as a registration, waiting period and a background check...where does these basic checks take away one's right to bear arms...WHERE?
What exactly is the RUSH to get your guns for protection, all I'm saying is keep it simple but just have some basic checks especially when dealing with gun purchases on the internet. I had no idea it was THAT easy to buy a rifle...get your credit card ready folks it is yours boom.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
The interesting thing is, that if you watch animals, you notice that most of them only become aggressive or attack when they feel cornered and afraid. That's my concern about more people being fed fear. The more we pump the idea of "fear" and lead people to believe they need to be armed and ready to attack at any moment, the more likely they will attack unnecessarily, as we've seen from some of the accident articles posted earlier in this thread.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
http://www.theonion.com/video/manufactu ... fai,14319/
The bullets have not been mentioned so far in this thread to my recollection, but their design demands consideration and discussion as well.
With that said... if you're going to have guns to shoot people... you may as well have the bullets guaranteed to 'explode inside of people' (resulting in a much more desirable quantity of tissue damage).
Fuk me. It's just insane.
"We at Steelhawk strive for customer satisfaction and will sell no hollow-point bullet that will not produce a devastating effect within the body cavity. You can rest assured that when you buy Steelhawk... you have guaranteed an obliteration of your intended target's organs!"
Sheer insanity. The press conference is surreal to me- it reminds me of one that might have been on Starship Troopers. The 'effect' that has people rubbing their palms briskly together in anticipation of is one that will play out on a human being somewhere. We're okay with this?
I can understand such bullets being produced 'military grade' or 'police issue'... but if we let Joe Shmoe have his gun... do we have to give him access to such bullets as well?